Val Kilmer Family Believes Religion Is Killing Him

[Warren Stupidity]

I apologize for using TMZ as a source.

Val Kilmer's family believes the actor is killing himself by not dealing with a serious tumor ... because of his religious beliefs.

TMZ broke the story ... Val was rushed to the hospital Monday night after he started bleeding from the throat. Doctors at UCLA Medical Center, Santa Monica operated immediately and found a tumor. We're told the surgery was invasive ... they needed to enlarge a path to facilitate breathing.

Family members tell TMZ ... Val has known about the tumor since Summer. He had trouble speaking and his neck swelled to the point he covered it up with scarves and other clothing items.

The family members say they urged Val to seek treatment but he would have none of it because of his Christian Science beliefs. They say he shunned medical treatment and anyone who persisted got cut out of his life.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/02/val-kilmer-christian-science-church-tumor-medical-treatment/#ixzz3QbeVoa5c

And yet we have heard right here on DU that "you can't prove prayer doesn't work" and that "what's the problem, there is no harm in believing in utter nonsense", or words to that effect, over and over and over and over again.

[trotsky]

1. Strange how the people who endlessly carry on about "respect" for religious beliefs...

leave themselves on rather shaky ground in situations like this. You are correct, we cannot PROVE that prayer doesn't work. Especially since there are indeed people who were sick and did not seek medical treatment, but only prayed, and they recovered. Clearly that is proof prayer works, right?

[edhopper]

10. Actually we can

to a large degree of certainty.
We just have to compare people who never seek any treatment, the control group, with those that seek no treatment but pray, and those that get treatment. The results would correlate to the effectiveness of each path. I suspect it would be statiscally significant enough to confirm the hypothesis (that praying does no more than doing nothing.)

[trotsky]

11. True, we can, and we have.

Remember this one?

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

The STEP team, composed of investigators at six academic medical centers ... found that intercessory prayer had no effect on recovery from surgery without complications. The study also found that patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse.

D'oh!

[edhopper]

12. Well that is a little different

both sets were treated and prayer had no results.
Of course it would be unethical to do a study where people don't get effective treatment. That would only be allowed in the trials of the treatment.
Still we both know what the results would be.

[Arugula Latte]

2. He's gone to the Danger Zone.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. But, but, but.....

he is in one of those wacky religions. More like a cult than a religion. It is different with real Christians.

Besides, he probably just doesn't pray hard enough, or believe enough. Or maybe God just wants another special angel and wants to take him back sooner.

[Arugula Latte]

16. If he dies, there will be a reason, oh yeah, you know it.

Just don't fucking ask what that reason is!

[AlbertCat]

4. Hey Val....

..... say hello to Jim Henson for us.

[olddots]

5. really sad

So much for "Christian" science

[onager]

6. If you're all done with your breakfast...

Here's my unwanted and useless opinion on Val Kilmer's best role ever - barely edging out his Doc Holliday in "Tombstone:"

Wonderland (2003)

Apparently religious guy Kilmer plays...porn star John Holmes. The movie is based on Holmes' (possible) involvement in the July 1981 "Wonderland Murders" that took place on Wonderland Ave. in Los Angeles.

A/k/a "Laurel Canyon Murders." Or in the cheerfully macabre LAPD nickname - the "Four On The Floor Murders." (4 people were beaten to death with metal pipes, 1 woman survived but just barely.)

The movie is all about sex, drugs and rock-and-roll. But as that old song by Blue Oyster Cult said - This Ain't the Summer of Love. The druggies are a pack of vicious, low-life criminals and petty thieves. Deciding to up their game and become non-petty thieves proves their undoing.

Despite looking nothing like Holmes, Kilmer does a great job. Backed up by a cast that includes Josh Lucas, Lisa Kudrow, Tim Blake Nelson and others.

And Christina Applegate in a small part. She lived near the crime scene in 1981, and remembers seeing the bloody mattresses lying in the street afterwards.

The story is told in "Rashomon" style, with flashbacks from different points of view. Some people found that confusing, I thought it made the story more interesting. YMMV.

Be warned - or not - that if you buy the DVD of the movie, you also get the actual LAPD crime scene video footage as an Extra. It is very real and very gory. John Holmes' murder trial was the first criminal case in the US where the prosecution used video footage, and that was the same footage you see on the DVD.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335563/?ref_=nv_sr_5

[trotsky]

7. See, I think his best role was...

Nick Rivers in Top Secret!
http://iv1.lisimg.com/image/2618028/600full-top-secret!-screenshot.jpg

[John1956PA]

17. It was his debut role. His performance of "Tuttie Frutie" is terrific.

[deucemagnet]

9. I was just considering re-watching "Felon" last night.

It's one of his more recent films, and under-appreciated, IMO. I thought he played a great role.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10010077-felon/

[Rob H.]

14. He was also really good, along with pre-massive-comeback Robert Downey, Jr.

in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. The studio, for whatever reason, did pretty much zero advertising or promotion in the run-up to its release, and I can't help but think it would've been a bigger film for them had they bothered to let people know about it. As an added bonus to fans of hard-boiled detective fiction, each chapter of the movie takes its name from a different Raymond Chandler novel.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. This sucks.

I can understand when, on mature consideration, someone says 'you know what, I'm done, I don't want to fight it'.

But when someone says 'The great ooga booga in the sky says I have to let this happen' because some asshole convinced them to adopt those beliefs...

That fucking sucks. What a waste. This cannot be considered an informed decision, when people base it on what other people have told them their invisible friend demands of them.

How horrid.

[LiberalAndProud]

13. This is as personal as religion gets.

I think he believes in untrue things but it's his life, his faith. If I think, "stupid is as stupid does," that's my business.

[Rob H.]

15. "The family is hopeful because Val seems somewhat more receptive to treatment."

I sincerely hope he gets the treatment he obviously needs. I get that it goes against his religious beliefs, but this is a matter of life or death.