OK...here's the thing on "respecting" religious and other supernatural beliefs....

[PassingFair]

Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2015, 05:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I used to have my nails done by a woman who was into every kind of
"woo" you can mention.

Her husband was a "psychic", and she was learning to read cards, auras, crystals...you name it.

I LIKED her. She was funny, open-minded and could shellac a mean nail.
I was at first amused by her out-spoken woo-ness. My daughters often
accompanied me for manicures and they liked her too.

Problem is, I NEVER felt comfortable telling her "this is CRAZY talk" while she went on
about the visitations she received from dead people, or her refusal to go to certain places
or events, based on readings and portents.

It came to a head one night when she was showing me pictures from a "haunted house"
that she had toured with her friend. She was particularly geeked about the "orbs" she
could see in the pictures.

I started to tell her about the effects of water vapor and dust in photography, and I could
see her start to harden and become defensive.

This, after MONTHS of listening to her go on and on about "houses" and signs, etc...

The point of this rambling report, is that while I respected her as a person, I had and have
NO respect for her beliefs.

None.

After the "orb" incident, I stopped going to see her. It was apparent that while she felt
it was perfectly OK for her to flap on about her supernatural beliefs and experiences, to
vocalize my DISbelief was forbidden.

I like to be in places where I can say: "That's crazy!"

[TreasonousBastard]

1. It does go both ways...

imagine the believer who gets an earful about how the church is the root of all evil when she gets her nails done, even though everything else is great.

Respect goes both ways-- this is a person who doesn't have respect for your disbelief. That makes it tough to accept her whacky ideas as just her thing.

Back in real life, most of us learn to be social and not preach and spiel at every opportunity.

[PassingFair]

2. I can't imagine that situation even happening!

I never said her beliefs were the "root of all evil", nor would I.
I just couldn't keep my mouth shut in the face of her orbs of proof.

Back in real life, I get preached at a lot!

[F4lconF16]

4. +1

You didn't do anything wrong. That post was rather disingenuous.

[trotsky]

3. ???

"imagine the believer who gets an earful about how the church is the root of all evil when she gets her nails done"

Yeah, we have to imagine that. Because it never fucking happens.

[whathehell]

7. "Yeah we have to imagine that. Because it never fucking happens".

Actually it "fucking happens" quite a lot on DU, so I wouldn't rule out every other place in the

world.

[trotsky]

8. Thank you for admitting the scenario described doesn't happen.

Sorry you are exposed to negative opinions about religion. Perhaps the Atheists & Agnostics GROUP is not a good place for you?

[whathehell]

17. LOL..You might want to try remedial reading,

as "admitted" no such thing.

[trotsky]

18. Yeah, you did.

People criticizing religion on DU isn't the same as a believer being subjected to an anti-church rant while getting their nails done.

If you were trying to equate them, you failed miserably. Please don't come into our safe haven to disrupt.

[edhopper]

39. You've obviously never heard of

the "I Fucking Hate Jesus Nail Salon"

[trotsky]

40. I punched that in to the Google, and this was the first image hit:

"Jesus getting his Nails done."

LMFAO!

[edhopper]

44. That is hilarious,

but the nail head is on the wrong side.

[trotsky]

45. It also needs to be in the wrist...

to have any hope of suspending a human body!

[edhopper]

46. It also assumes

that there was a Jesus who was crucified.

[trotsky]

83. Oh snap! n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

108. You don't know what you are talking about.

Anyone who has seen pictures, or the stigmata that magically appears on some sainted person, knows that the nails went through the hand. Jesus had some really strong bones in his hands. You have to have faith.

[PeaceNikki]

105. I'd get a mani/pedi there, for sure.

[Fumesucker]

11. DU has a nail salon?

I learn new things here quite often...

[trotsky]

21. I know, right?

These cuticles of mine...

[LiberalAndProud]

47. Conveniently located inside the A&A Group. Next to the elevator.

Going down?

[onager]

100. Going down? Yes, thanks, with Mr. King...

This video only seems to be off-topic. However, it contains important hidden messages about the future of humanity and stuff. I learned that from the HVAC repairman who just dropped by. He is a Third Degree Black Belt Reiki Master and also a member of the WWE Wrasslin' Fer Jesus Team.

https://m.

[LiberalAndProud]

147. I've listened to the song ten times already.

When will I hear the hidden message? Do I need my decoder ring?

[PassingFair]

13. Missing the point....I like it here because I CAN say:

"That's CRAZY!"

[whathehell]

16. I can always make my own point. n/t

[PassingFair]

19. I guess you can...just not usually in protected rooms.

Like this one.

But DO go on!

[trotsky]

20. Yeah this should be fun.

whathehell always puts on a great show for what it means to "act like a Christian."

[EvolveOrConvolve]

61. Not here you can't

This is a safe haven and one of the few places many of us have to actually express our lack of belief, so don't come shit in our sandbox with the "I'm entitled to my opinion" whine we get so much from the religiously privileged. You are NOT entitled to make your point here if it violates the safe haven nature of the group.

Based on your posts in this thread alone, you're not a friend to atheists or agnostics, and the A&A group probably isn't the place for you. If our presence bothers you so much, just trash the group and be done with it.

[whathehell]

81. Oh for fucks sake..

I am certainly surprised to find the A & As so thin skinned and sensitive.

[LostOne4Ever]

82. Providing a safe haven for one of the most disliked and disrespected groups is important

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]The OP was giving a good reason why that is the case.

She politely listened to her nail stylist's superstitious beliefs time and time again, and the one time she tried expressed her skepticism it was met with hostility. This is not a once in a while occurrence for many of us, but a daily fact of life. To get constant preached at by everyone about their god and not to be allowed to share our skepticism or our beliefs without possibly losing a friend, a job, or risk getting disowned by our families.

Some of us don't have it that bad, and are surrounded by people who will accept us. But some of us don't have that luxury, and must keep our mouths shut and sealed into a closet.

On forums like this, on DU, and in this group especially is one of the only places we can express our views without risking these things. Don't like hearing about it from DU non-believers? You can log off the site and it ends for you.

For some of us, we can't turn it off like that. We have to hear it non-stop at school, at work, and some of us at the end of the day when we go home we have to keep hearing it from our family...and we can't say a peep. Not a single thing.

We don't need people coming into this safe-haven telling us we are being thin skinned and sensitive. We don't need people coming in here and telling us that its their our own fault (when it wasn't) they were treated poorly. For simply uttering a statement of disbelief. For daring to think different.

The LGBT group doesn't need it either. Nor the feminist groups. Nor the African American group. Nor any of the groups set up on here for minorities. If you want to act that way go to a non-safe haven.

So, drop the attitude or stop replying. Its not hard either way.[/font]

[whathehell]

84. You're making a bfd out of notthing..

and if you actually read my posts you'd realize that...This has devolved into

nothing more than a pissing contest. Have a nice day.

[PeaceNikki]

103. You waltzed into a safe-haven and started the pissing, FYI.

So be shocked when that splashes back onto you.

[LiberalAndProud]

106. Masterful.

You barged into a safe haven begging to be blocked and preemptively named us thin-skinned. Artful gamesmanship.

Oh, and you should have a nice day too.

[whathehell]

111. Actually, I didn't "barge" into anything but what I saw

on The Greatest page - I wasn't even intentionally entering your "safe haven".

but I'm sure you won't believe me and will continue the pile on.

[LiberalAndProud]

115. I might have believed you. But my skin is thin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=37614

[whathehell]

124. Yeah..Uh huh..Whatever.

Buh bye.

[Lordquinton]

118. there are no scare quotes around safe havens here

It means something and you are violating rules (at least I think so, hosts will probably agree) so if you are genuine you should apologize and let it go.

[whathehell]

123. Goodbye

[AtheistCrusader]

126. A 15k post user putting safe haven in scare quotes. Fascinating.

[trotsky]

87. Imagine how it would be received if one of us went into Interfaith or another believers zone...

and took a steaming dump like you did in here. Wait, I know... we non-believers DESERVE it, right? Just like Jesus taught. 'Do unto others as they deserve.' Wait, is that right? Do you remember how that goes?

[whathehell]

88. I get it..

the thing is, if you recall my actual post, it was nothing that was even

mildly offensive, let alone anything that could be likened to "a steaming dump"

of an insult.

All I did, in fact, was give you my experience on hearing from Atheists, mainly

on this board.

Your statement was that it was "bullshit" that atheists ever preach or proselytize

and I disagreed with that, mainly on the basis of what I see on DU. Seeing so

much from atheists on DU, including LOTS of insults and ridicule, I simply said

I found it hard to believe that they could be depended on to be oh so quiet and shy

in the rest of the world.

That's all I said.

[trotsky]

91. Yet DU is nothing like real life.

You can use ignore. You can hide threads. You can avoid groups. No one forced you to come into this group and be exposed to our comments about religion.

My statement about it being "bullshit" specifically referred to the idea that a believer could walk into a nail salon and be subjected to an anti-religion rant by the person doing their nails, which was TB's claim. You're the one who imagined it to be some universal statement.

The Christian thing to do would be to apologize for the misunderstanding, and for your behavior, and leave this group. Wouldn't it?

[whathehell]

129. Aww..

I like that patronizing "Christian thing to do" bit....Such a laughably unsubtle

attempt at mocking the religion you misguidedly assumed I belonged to.

You're funnier than you realize, bro.

[AtheistCrusader]

127. The opposite of preach or proselytize is quiet and shy? Since when?

Why don't you just go ahead and show yourself out like you said a couple posts up? I think that would be best for everyone.

[AtheistCrusader]

92. "I thought I asked you not to post in here."

"Please refrain from posting in here or you risk being banned.

Your presence is disruptive."

I think that's about how it goes.

[trotsky]

95. Yep, doesn't matter what you do or say.

Your very presence is offensive. But they're the tolerant ones, remember.

[AtheistCrusader]

90. Oh please, some of us have been banned from the interfaithy echo chamber for our MERE PRESENCE IS

DISRUPTIVE ARGLE BARGLE

[LiberalAndProud]

22. I post about my disbelief quite a bit on DU, that's true.

I especially enjoy posting in the Atheists & Agnostics Group (in case you had overlooked the venue.) On the other hand, I will demure from having conversations with my parents' hallelujah health aide or their church attending, god fearing friends. The thing is, I know that they believe. They haven't a clue that I don't. How do you suppose that happens?

[trotsky]

35. Imagine the horror...

of CHOOSING to go on the Internet, CHOOSING to go to a political website where many opinions are expressed, CHOOSING to go into a particular group where disbelievers congregate, and then being FORCED to read negative opinions about religion! Aiieeee, the horror!

[LiberalAndProud]

96. That's what I get for trying to be fair.

[LiberalAndProud]

41. To be fair, the Latest page does not discriminate.

I suspect our friend got lost on his way to the Interfaith Group. I should think the polite thing to do would be to mutter a swift apology before backing out the door.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. This is not uncommon.

Whether it is alternative woo, or one of the traditional religions, we all have had to hear about it---even from strangers sitting beside us on a plane or some other bizarre situation. And it is also true that most of these people are highly offended if someone counters with a different point of view.

What bothers me much more than the occasional stranger/near stranger who thinks that I care about their woo are the friends I have who insist on discussing these things with me, knowing that I find it all ridiculous. I guess that being the only atheist that they know, they feel the need to try to convince me of their beliefs because I cannot imagine that they start these conversations with everyone they meet.

And they always get offended when I roll my eyes or say "that's crazy".

[PassingFair]

15. Yep, not just "woo"....goes for talking snakes and virgin births, and heaven too. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

42. Also talking jack-asses

Wait, I've actually seen a bunch of those.

Never mind.

[mopinko]

6. i lost a friend because she kept insisting i was

"acting like a leo" ugh.
i also had an employee who i laid off (among other reasons) because she was constantly arguing w me, on my dime, about all kinds of woo. especially around food and herbal remedies.

and my son? dont get me started. never met a conspiracy theory that he didnt fall for.

yeah, they cant hear you.

[central scrutinizer]

9. I've stopped being silent

I bought some food and dropped if off at a local homeless encampment the other day and a woman said, "God bless you." I had to say that as an atheist her comment meant nothing to me. I did this because it is the human thing to do, not to appease some invisible sky wizard. Here is a great read on the subject of "I'll pray for you"

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2015/02/10/whats-wrong-with-telling-an-atheist/

[F4lconF16]

10. Interesting article, thanks. nt

[PassingFair]

26. Speaking out is how the tide is turned...

That's why I don't like it when terms like "new atheist", "militant atheist" and "fundamentalist atheist"
are tossed around.

The more religious doubters see that people can be happy and "normal" without
religion, the more they stop cherry-picking and start sloughing off the religious trappings.

[Binkie The Clown]

12. I just thank God that we Virgos don't believe in that crap! n/t

[PassingFair]

14. LOL...nt

[LiberalAndProud]

23. Yes. You were blessed. or blest. or something.

[FiveGoodMen]

43. Yup, you got an audible laugh with that one!

[whatthehey]

24. What whiners about DU "anti-theism" miss

is that such an outlet is necessary and used precisely because there are so few situations in the real world where criticizing religion and superstition is safe.

[TM99]

25. What I always see missing in these types of thread

is context and the use of adult communication through boundaries.

In the case of the OP, the context is that this is the woman's place of business. It is not yours. If you are not comfortable with her 'woo', then why didn't you say something in the very beginning? Why did you simply not state a boundary around the listening of such 'non-sense'? If you don't but then start to lecture her on why she is wrong, what do you expect? Finally, why didn't you stop going to see her prior to the 'orb' incident?

In the case of the poster who decided to respond with a diatribe to a woman simply saying 'bless you' for an act of kindness. Was it necessary? Why create discord when none was implied by the first person communicating in that situation.

[PassingFair]

27. I was perfectly happy listening to her point of view....

the problem occurred when I attempted to explain mine, even just ONCE.

I'm comfortable with her woo, she is not comfortable with my expressing my scientific explanations.

[onager]

28. In the middle of a very similar situation.

Thanks for the OP. I read it as "respect only going one way."

You're expected to sit there and marvel at her miracle stories, without ever doubting or questioning.

I am SURROUNDED by people like that right now. Moved from Los Angeles to the Buckle On The Bible Belt.

One of the most irritating things is the way they automatically assume everybody around them is a Xian. And they certainly don't want to hear about it if you are not.

I posted recently about a local school board tying itself in knots over the invocations at public meetings. "Well OF COURSE everyone wants to hear a good ol' Xian prayer before a taxpayer-funded meeting! And anybody who doesn't must be one of them atheist Commie child molesters!"

Just today, the local Weekly-Wiper newspaper ran a charming "poem" entitled "Hey Mr. Evolutionist Man." With verses like "I've never seen a monkey write Shakespeare." Yuk-yuk-yuk...

And in the FAITH!!! section last week, the paper profiled a local retired preacher who enjoys wandering around and sticking his nose into everybody's beliefs. He likes to walk up to people and ask - "How's your relationship with Jesus?"

I seriously thought about writing an LTTE and telling him I was getting a Restraining Order, and THAT's how my effing relationship with Jebus was going.

Or suggesting he wander around asking that question in downtown Mecca...

[PassingFair]

29. You must have a cloak of invisibility...

I don't know HOW you manage to live amongst the holy!!

I would slip up on a daily basis.

[mountain grammy]

153. Thanks for that visual.. asking that question in downtown Mecca.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. non acceptance of religious idiocy, even by expressing a different view

is considered by some people here, and by many people in the real world, to be utterly inappropriate behavior.

[PassingFair]

31. "militant" even....n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

32. dogmatically fundamentalist

[PassingFair]

33. Could you define that for me, please?

[Warren Stupidity]

34. sure:

DWASKISNS!!@#!@!!

[PassingFair]

36. !

[LiberalAndProud]

38. That should be the meme of the week.

Love it.

[LiberalAndProud]

37. The really interesting theists in my life are happy to have the conversation.

Those that prattle on about how God has blessed them in their hard-row life seem so fragile to me that I don't want to engage them in a discussion about the godless nature of the universe.

On a discussion board with educated and erudite participants, the persecuted, don't be mean attitude simply burns.

[Curmudgeoness]

112. Well, there is your problem!

"with educated and erudite participants"

You are just too kind.

[LiberalAndProud]

114. It's the Pollyanna in me, I guess.

[TM99]

48. Why didn't you express

your 'scientific explanations' the first time she spoke about her 'woo'?

Why did you wait?

So you passively listened. But then later, corrected her foolishness. Of course she had a problem. You were not honest. You were not being yourself from the get go. She was honest with you about herself. You were not.

Now you claim to be a victim of her prejudice. Yet you obviously sat there for how long harboring your own prejudice against her, her beliefs, and consider them 'woo'. Do you believe that others do not pick up on such incongruities even unconsciously?

I have been an atheist (though I truly don't like the word as it doesn't encompass what I truly think, know, and believe) my entire life. I learned finally during my youth that challenging others beliefs was not about them it was about me. Then I stopped. I don't care if the client in front of me believes that spirits aid her during her worst depressive times. I could care less if a co-worker is a born-again Christian. I state my beliefs up front the moment the need arises within the organic context of developing any type of relationship from the most superficial regular nurse who checks me in at my Endo's office to the new sister-in-law. If I am truly uncomfortable with their communication, I state and follow a boundary that I set from the moment it occurs.

Be honest next time. Speak up the first time someone triggers your prejudices or beliefs or makes you uncomfortable. The other person will not have a reason to be suspicious as to why you didn't communicate truthfully from the beginning. You might just find that even though you share seemingly opposing beliefs about things that the relationship itself, no matter how superficial, is more real.

[LiberalAndProud]

50. At least you don't have a problem with your self esteem.

[beam me up scottie]

51. That poster has other problems.

I know I am not welcome nor do I ever post in the AA group. While there are many good men and women who are non-believers and non-theists on these boards, the anti-theist/anti-religion cabal rules that group and overshadows AA's in general. They may have legitimate grievances from childhood about their experiences with the most literalistic and fundamentalist forms of Christianity in America, however, they still hold that immature mode of thinking as they attempt to psychologically work through these issues with their animosity, venomous, and bluntly raging behavior. I see no reason in frequenting that room for discussion as those are simply not the issues I deal with nor are they the types of individuals that a stimulating or thought-provoking discussion could be held with.

The Religion forum, I choose now to rarely post in. Even after putting most if not all of that cabal on Ignore, that forum and its devolving discussions can simply push my buttons too much especially the lack of scholarship, the insistence on religion=delusion, and 'privilege' theory.

Being two-faced and a hypocrite are two right off the top of my head.

[TM99]

52. Well, as snarky as ever I see.

I have posted here a few times, and once more I remember why I don't.

Thanks for that reminder.

[Lordquinton]

78. That was a rollercoaster of a read

Condescending and rather rude, trying to act like he's above it all when he stirs the pot all the time.

I especially liked the part where he he doesn't like the discussions because "especially the lack of scholarship" then, in the same sentence includes "'privilege' theory." which if he had any kind of social background (academically speaking, of course) He would know exactly what privilege is, and how much it affects atheists, including himself, and how much it can harm and marginalize even religious people, specifically women and people of color. (and the only reason Religion isn't counted as a delusion is because the DSM specifically says that even though it meets all the requirements, it doesn't count, which brings us back to the previous point about privilege).

[beam me up scottie]

119. I'm just hoping he doesn't send us a bill.

Although it's nice to know we're only imagining that we've been called names on DU. I mean it's not like anyone actually accused us of being part of an anti-theist/anti-religion cabal who's toxic and dysfunctional.

Or something.

[trotsky]

99. I wonder what he has to say about passive-aggressiveness?

Inquiring minds.

I'm also lacking in "grievances from childhood about (my) experiences with the most literalistic and fundamentalist forms of Christianity," since I was raised in a fairly liberal Lutheran church, but then facts don't matter when you've got a rage-on. Gotta lump all the people you hate in one indistinguishable mass. Oh and then complain about them broad-brushing. Classic.

[beam me up scottie]

121. How's this for hypocrisy?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1264&pid=5649

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1264&pid=5265

This "professional" diagnoses us as psychologically traumatized in a safe haven where he knows we can't defend ourselves, repeatedly calls us names and then complains because he's being "attacked" in here?

I don't think I've ever seen a more deserving victim.

Of course, I can't help myself, you know how emotional I get because what I'm really saying is that "I have been hurt by Christianity and I am angry".

Yeah, I'm angry because of my childhood trauma, it has nothing to do with how I've been treated here.

[skepticscott]

130. Yes, and certain psycho-scolds

maintain that it's grotesquely inappropriate to evaluate someone else's mental state over the Internet, while at the same time doing exactly that themselves. I diagnosed this one as a bloody hypocrite a long time ago, and have seen no reason to change that evaluation.

[beam me up scottie]

131. Yep.

Medical ethics aside, if he wants to quackishly psycho-analyze members of this group in Interfaith and the hosts of that group are ok with allowing their safe haven to be used for such purposes, I'm fine with that.

But he has a lot of nerve coming in here after what he's posted about us.

[TM99]

53. Self-esteem can be developed.

The more we own our own reality, share it, use boundaries to appropriately defend it, yes, the more confident & assured we become. Another wonderful side effect is better relationships even with those we may not have a lot in common with.

[LiberalAndProud]

54. Better relationships, huh?

I wouldn't have guessed.

[TM99]

58. I have terrific real relationships.

Sadly, I see that many of y'all apparently haven't learned how to be yourselves, be direct, be real, be honest, and not just attack and pretend the victim.

I have not been disrespectful in this thread. I have been attacked and that's fine.

[LiberalAndProud]

59. You have been pompous and judgmental.

So there is that.

[PassingFair]

72. He's just being "real"

A real asshat!

[LiberalAndProud]

74. It's pretty clear he doesn't like us.

I believe he came in with the purpose of being barred from the group. I can't imagine that he joined in because he wanted to hang out with us. Plenty of places we can be lectured about how good atheists should conduct ourselves without having to tolerate it here.

[AtheistCrusader]

128. I'm the Queen of England.

[beam me up scottie]

132. LMAO!

[Arugula Latte]

164. Thank you, Oh Enlightened One, for stopping by to drop your pearls of wisdom upon us.

[LostOne4Ever]

75. I was going to discuss this with you, but It looks like I will have catch you next time (nt)

[Curmudgeoness]

113. "Why did you wait?"

I cannot speak for the OP, but I have had the same type of situations, and I can answer that question.

I wait because I am being polite. With the millions of topics of discussion, I figure that this is just a passing comment and I can just ignore it. The problem with this nail tech was that she was a broken record, and this was the only subject that she had in her repertoire. It then gets old, and polite gets harder.

Atheists often let these things go because it is not as easy as it sounds to "be honest". Besides, being honest ends up with an accusation of being militant or anti-theist just because we speak up. You may be an atheist, but you have obviously never told everyone that you are an atheist in an area where church and God rule.

[beam me up scottie]

56. You said you knew you were not welcome and never posted in the AA group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1264&pid=4008

So why are you here?

[Lordquinton]

79. If you missed the context, then you didn't read it all the way through

the OP was just sharing an experience, venting about how they kept their mouth shut, because that's what we do as atheists, and just got overwhelmed one day and said their point of view. I don't know where you live where everyone lays out their entire spectrum of belief when you first meet, but in the real world you only really talk about it when it comes up, and only if necessary. The OP obviously didn't deem it necessary, and thought, as any rational person would, that when they tried to share their own point of view the other person would consider it with a reciprocal attitude. But they didn't. And it's doubly off putting as they had been respectful of their nail person's view for so long. Plus you can add on customer service, they should't have been like that at all.

In the case of the poster who let the soup kitchen worker know their beliefs, and that they weren't doing it because of any god, well clearly you didn't read the article. You seem to be the type that thinks that atheists should bend over for theists whenever a confrontation is handled, and don't look at it through a different point of view. That atheists aren't entitled to their beliefs, nor should they be respected.

[AtheistCrusader]

94. Must be nice traipsing through life expecting that no one ever find their voice and say 'I disagree'

when they happen to be standing on whatever you personally define as your home turf.

Speaking of, shouldn't you not be in here?

[beam me up scottie]

49. I see our resident Dr. Phil showed up in your time of need.

How lucky for you, some people actually pay for condescension and arrogance.



Methinks the physician should heal himself.

[beam me up scottie]

57. No, you went to Interfaith and acted like one.

Do you think you're invisible when you post there?

[TM99]

60. Why would I think I was invisible.

I am quite comfortable sharing what I want where I choose. I can call out bad behavior anywhere I see. And damn, I sure see it a lot with you.

Take care.

[beam me up scottie]

62. First you tell me to fuck off and now to take care?

I hear they have medication for that kind of behaviour.

Maybe you should talk to someone about that.

Are you sure you're qualified to give medical advice?

[Heddi]

65. Damn. A 0-7 hide. That's gotta burn

I'm sure he'll be trotting off to Interfaith to complain about those meanie ol' atheists who are just SO INTOLERANT OF ATHEISTS WHO DON'T TOE THE LINE...you know, the same argument made by, oh, numerous people who have been banned from this forum for abusive behaviour....somehow they can't remember being nasty to people (or making bigoted, transphobic remarks) but goddamn if they can't remember I GOTS BANNED!11!! CAUS I DIDN"T KISS ASS!! Uh no....

[beam me up scottie]

66. Did anyone see the results?

Yes, I wonder why they'll say this one got the boot. Perhaps we're intolerant of shrinks?

Kudos to the hosts for their transparency; makes it difficult to rewrite history.

[Heddi]

67. This was sent to me by a friend

I cannot say whether they were an alerter or a jurist.

JURY RESULTS

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's okay to disagree, even gently/tactfully rib one another, but name-calling and profanity of this caliber is a bit too 'over the top', methinks.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[beam me up scottie]

69. Gee, ain't I a stinker?

What's up, doc?

[Heddi]

70. You're just a meanie atheist, wanting to kick out all the GOOD atheists

who don't Tow the Line or Toe the line or Too the line or whatever the fuck excuse is for all the...others...who have been banned from this group.

JUST ADMIT IT...you're not really an atheist at all, are you? ARE YOU.

I can tell that deep down, you're just a good old fashioned run of the mill Jesus Freak. Admit it.

[beam me up scottie]

71. Okay. You got me.

I'm a Poe.

[skepticscott]

102. Not just 7-0, but such obvious snark and hostility

that 6 of the jurors didn't even see the need for any kind of explanation. They just pushed the button without even having to think about it. Easy peasy.

[AtheistCrusader]

86. Jury says otherwise, 7-0 LOL

[AtheistCrusader]

98. Hey, what's 'beyond dickish'?

I'm curious what comes next in the spectrum. Is that like in Spaceballs, when SpaceBall 1 goes from Light Speed to Ridiculous Speed and then Ludicrous Speed? Can't stop being a dick, it's too dangerous? Dickishness leaves a plaid-colored trail across the sky?

Something like that?

[Heddi]

134. Imagine it as being

"11" on the volume....It's dickish, plus 1.

Apparently something your simple mind can't understand, sinner. Get to loving god and maybe you'll find other ways of knowing.

[beam me up scottie]

138. So it's not some complicated medical jargon?

Silly me.

[Heddi]

141. Not this time

....but don't think you'll be so lucky next time, lil' lady

[EvolveOrConvolve]

63. "I didn't come in here and act like a dick"

Now THAT is the most ironic post I've read on DU in a long time.

[Heddi]

64. Hi Mr/Ms Host. I'd like to request that this poster's future in AA be considered

by yourself and the other hosts.

It is apparent, by the posts in this thread as well as others, that this poster has absolutely no respect of the concept of "Safe Haven,' has no interest in following the rules of this group which are CLEARLY laid out, and has no interest in being respectful of those who come here and the views they share with each other.

In a word, DU sucks when TM99 posts in the Atheist/Agnostic forum. He shatters the notion of a safe haven. He openly judges and mocks those who post here...as if we don't deal with enough mocking and judgmental attitudes in real life.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I would appreciate if this matter could be taken up with the other hosts.

Thank you,

hed

[Curmudgeoness]

68. You speak for me too.

That is a line that cannot be allowed to cross. He said he is ok with being banned, and that he knows he will be banned for that comment, so give him what he is asking for. If you have no better argument than "fuck off", we don't need you.

[PassingFair]

73. he needs to be banned for his own good.

He can't help himself. He'll thank us for it someday!

[edhopper]

76. I'm still giggling at

Him putting "scientific explanations" in quotes.

And not just "scientific explanations", but YOUR 'scientific explanations'.

[LiberalAndProud]

77. Say it ain't so!

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

not condescending at all.

[edhopper]

89. The quotes

make it "her opinion vs yours". Not woo vs science.

Like The Dude saying "Well, that's like your opinion, Man."

[LiberalAndProud]

97. Got it.

I missed the air quotes on my first read through, but the smug tone was unmistakeable either way.

[PassingFair]

125. Because that's what psycho therapists do.

Really, this person is a therapist?

[Heddi]

135. And a record producer

so just keep him in mind next time you want to lay down some hot tracks.

Did you know that *I* was a psychotherapist? I also taught my pet elephant Luigi how to write calligraphy for wedding envelopes. It's a great side business and he's in such high demand. When I'm not hang-gliding with homeless monkeys, you can find me teaching History of Pottery and Fibre Arts at the local university. It's my 4th PhD, but I'm not counting.

[beam me up scottie]

140. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Do past lives count?

[Heddi]

144. Everything counts

+10 points if you can humbly fit in your impressive educational background and the number of books you've written while misusing the words too, two, and to.

[LiberalAndProud]

137. The things you learn.

I did not know that he had claimed to be a therapist. I might believe that almost as much as a believe he's a (hate-the-word) atheist.

[Lordquinton]

80. I agree

He clearly came here looking for a fight. He claims to be an atheist, but is hostile to us here (and despite what a small cabal claim, we're the majority, they are the vocal minority, bay a huge gap). The only Atheists who have been banned have been for this same reason, hostile to the the majority of atheists at DU. This is the second most active group in the R&S forum, and though some in Religion and Interfaith claim to speak for most atheists, they are wrong.

In fact A&A holds the nice atheists, that are willing to engage peacefully about belief at face value(srsly, check general if you don't believe me), but they're too blinded by their privilege to realize that, so they drag it down to their level.

We don't need that kind of atheist here.

[trotsky]

93. What Lordquinton said. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ n/t

[skepticscott]

101. He is not the only one who needs to be shown the door

At least two others in this thread have used up whatever slack they deserve in a safe haven. I'm sure they'll run back to the ghost town and play the victim and complain about the "thin-skinned" "intolerant" atheists here, but tough shit. We should not have to put up with this kind of crap in here.

[PeaceNikki]

104. I agree

[mr blur]

107. Yep, Banhammer Time!

I'd say.

[Lordquinton]

109. This^^

I forgot to add that into my piece above, he's not the only one who has shown they need an escort to the door.

[Goblinmonger]

110. I have an email out to other hosts to discuss this

[skepticscott]

116. Please proceed

It's frankly getting more than a bit frustrating to see people like this constantly getting just "one more chance", because we want to appear more tolerant and patient than the Interfaithers. When someone comes in here obviously and deliberately intending to disrupt, when they put up a post knowing and expecting that it will be hidden, what MORE do they have to do in a safe haven to get a permanent ban?

[Goblinmonger]

117. I kind of like our procedure

We will discuss it. We will communicate with the user. We will see if we can reach an agreement. If not, then we'll ban.

I really don't want to be the type of host that just slams the banhammer down on someone without trying to work it out. I've been banned from a group as have others here in a similar manner and it doesn't feel like an approach that reasonable adults should take.

If the group wants hosts to proceed in a different manner, then that's all good. If you want, I'll start a different thread where that can be hammered out. I will say up front that if that is how the group wants to proceed (and it is certainly something that the frequent users here can decide), then I will step down. I'm not saying that as a threat or anything like that, but it isn't a way of proceeding that I would be comfortable doing and I would likely NOT do it so it wouldn't make sense for me to have a job that I'm not going to do. Perhaps it's the teacher in me and it is very likely a fault. I'm fine with that.

[Lordquinton]

120. I agree, it is frustrating

But I wouldn't want it any other way. The difference between being a host and being a wannabe dictator is the paperwork. We lack their privlige so we need to make up for it by keeping all our ducks in a row, that way when other groups have hosts that ban people for something they made up after the fact, or hust the mere presence, and then try to turn it around on us here we're the ones coming out on top.

Still frustrating tho.

[skepticscott]

122. I understand that certain steps have to be gone though

My point is that we went through the very same type of situation here not too long ago, but no permanent ban was announced, despite there being a real justification for it. In my view, that simply emboldens people to do it again, and to dump as many turds in here as they think they can get away with, knowing that they will always get "one more chance", or just a private warning. TM99 knows perfectly well what a safe haven is all about and he came in here intending to disrupt and give everyone the finger. So did the other two. Why should THAT be tolerated even once? If it is, it will just encourage them to use their "last chance" to do the same damn thing, or encourage someone else to do it.

[skepticscott]

154. Case in point

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2015, 09:07 AM - Edit history (1)

post 129. whatthehell got tons of slack, and he used it to take yet another dump here. Why is that allowed? TM99 will also be back with more of his snarky, disruptive shit sooner or later, if he's allowed, regardless of any promises he might have made in PMs.

[PassingFair]

155. I think whatthehell did actually wander in here...

Although his posts were crap, he did eventually figure out that he had mistakenly
taken a dump in a protected room and he left.

The other fellow, however, has no excuse.

[LiberalAndProud]

156. I think he knew where he was after his first post,

The "thin-skinned" remark was made after he knew perfectly well which group he had stumbled into.

[skepticscott]

157. Yes, but even more to the point

his post 129 was made not only long after he knew he was in a safe haven, but after he had been given a PM warning from the hosts about his posting here. For some posters, warnings and promises mean nothing.

[beam me up scottie]

158. It seems like every time we ban a self proclaimed atheist

they go into the other forums and throw a huge pity party for themselves. Banning them just feeds their persecution complex.

Do you really think TM99 will come back after making such a spectacle out of himself? He's probably gone off to lick his wounds and hope everyone forgets all about it.

[LiberalAndProud]

159. Maybe it's better sometimes

to not give them what they want. I'm happy to leave it with our hosts to decide.

[beam me up scottie]

160. I agree.

I think you were right when you said that TM99 came in here wanting to be banned. I'm sure his audience is hoping for just such an outcome.

I trust our hosts and am glad they're willing to listen to all points of view.

[skepticscott]

161. I think he's so convinced

of his intellectual and moral superiority that nothing will dissuade him for long. As noted above, he has already broken his pledge not to post here, and I have no doubt that he would come back again if he felt we needed more scolding and guidance. His cause is unquestionably noble, or so he believes.

[beam me up scottie]

162. It's possible.

Maybe he thought we were too stupid to know when we're being insulted ("I didn't come in here and act like a dick&quot

Or that we would just take it lying down like properly deferential atheists.

[skepticscott]

167. Yet ANOTHER case in point

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123037936

A disingenuous disruptor, pretending to be a sincere seeker of enlightenment, but doing nothing but baiting and trying to see what they can get away with in a safe haven. I doubt it's a coincidence that they jumped into this Group just at this point.

[LiberalAndProud]

168. It's good for us to have our daily tone-scold.

Maybe we could start a group named A&A Woodshed.

[beam me up scottie]

170. Don't you mean "some" or "many" of us?

If you don't use qualifiers you might offend someone.

[LiberalAndProud]

171. What does "mean" mean?

And why are you being mean? If you would not insist on using that a-word, we could all just get along.

[beam me up scottie]

172. I'll have to consult my colleagues at Stanford.

Of course everyone in here is too busy offending our guests to discuss this rationally.

Maybe we need a committee.

[skepticscott]

173. No need...

Just post the same irrelevant link from them 5 or 6 times...the more you post it, the truer and more relevant it becomes, didn't you know?

[beam me up scottie]

174. Well that makes things much easier.

I'd hate to have to use my words.

[skepticscott]

175. And yet again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123038102

How much passive aggressive baiting does one person get to post in a safe haven before being shown the door for good, no "second chances"?

[Lordquinton]

176. Did someone raise a bat signal?

feels like someone called a raid, and that last poster actually said, in so many words, that he enjoys trolling atheists ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=188412 ) locked threads are a start, I'm still split on whether bans should be handed out. Maybe if they pull any of this again. Or maybe just now because of the pile on people gave, and the refusing to hear any view other than their own, along with claiming we're bigots for not specifying that we don't mean all theists.

Maybe I'm not as split as I felt before, At this point if we don't law down the law, we'll seen open for buisness, so to speak. Perhaps we should show that we won't tolerate intolerance here.

I submit my opinion to the hosts, along with the info that at least two of those who weren't banned sent love letters to tell me off in private, which was just more of the same.

[Heddi]

133. Yessir! :tips hat:

I don't think that I can say it enough how absolutely HUMBLED I am to be a part of a group with hosts as TOLERANT, PATIENT, and UNDERSTANDING as the hosts in this forum. Hats off to all three of you EVERY. FUCKING. DAY because you all rock.

Like, well, most of the regular posters of this group (let's be frank), I, too, was blocked for absolutely no reason from another group who prides itself on its tolerance and exclusivity. Except for Atheists (and Pastafarians, apparently). There was no disruption on my part (well, I suppose pointing out blatant hypocrisy could be disruptive, especially to a hypocrite!), and no discussion amongst the hosts prior to being banned (the banning took place within minutes of my post in the group), and no "warning" via PM.

It seems that we are amongst the most maligned groups in America as well as on DU. However, time and time again, the hosts of this group have shown MORE COMPOSURE, MORE TACT, and MORE CLASS than the hosts of the groups who can't say enough about how humble and tolerant and inclusive they are (despite banning people SOLELY for showing up in their group...because their mere PRESENCE is disruptive ). But *WE'RE* the bad guys/gals. WE'RE the intolerant ones.

AT NO POINT have the hosts here ever tolerated nasty behaviour from regular posters. I have NOT A DOUBT That had one of the regular posters here told a non-regular "fuck you, you fucking fuck," that the hosts would have been QUICK TO ADMONISH, and perhaps even BAN the person who said that, rather than giving them props and finding excuses for their untoward behaviour.

Hats off to y'all. Seriously. You do an amazing job ALL THE TIME. You are open to suggestions, humble in your approach, and always asking the input of the readers and participants of this forum.

Thank you for doing your best to ensure our SAFE HAVEN is, in fact a SAFE HAVEN.

[beam me up scottie]

136. Ditto EVERYTHING you said, Heddi

There's a very good reason why this is the second most popular forum in the Religion category, and it's not even close.

Just look at the numbers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1217

Our hosts totally ROCK!

[Heddi]

139. That's just amazing

This whole GROUP rocks.

Every single poster.

Every single host

every lurker who is too afraid to post.

EVERYONE.

except Onager. He's kind of creepy

[beam me up scottie]

142. Hey, my tits love onager.

And my chickadee too.

[Heddi]

143. Ah, from the root to the toot

tis an all-encompassing thing, no?

[onager]

165. Creepy?

Can't understand why you'd say such a thing. Actual photo below. Now my fee-fees are hurt and I'm going to Alert or something. (And thanks to BMUS for the titillation!)

[LiberalAndProud]

145. Yes! No complaints at all about the way they conduct themselves or this forum.

Well done, team!



And you're all beautiful, too.

[Heddi]

146. Yes, we are quite a stunning bunch

and a bunch of cunning stunts. oh wait....

[beam me up scottie]

148. A horde of seething malcontents.

Grumpy Doc says it totally sucks to be in this group.

[Heddi]

149. Hey shush your mouth. Go check out my yearbook thread

Finally got them pictures back. FINALLY. Yours looks very...furry

[skepticscott]

150. If there's a malcontented, unsociable asshole in this group

It's me...so don't try to steal the title.

[beam me up scottie]

151. Well I like you anyway.

So there.

[skepticscott]

163. Guess I'll just have to cope with that

[beam me up scottie]

169. Yep.

[LostOne4Ever]

152. +infinity

[haikugal]

166. THIS ^^^^^^^^

I don't say much but I have to applaud Heddi and this group!!! Proud to be a member, yes I am! I read everything here and enjoy you all very much.

[trotsky]

85. Had to make a temporary change to my Ignore list to see this subthread.

Hard to imagine why we'd want to ban someone who came in to tell us to "fuck off."

Guess that blows out of the water the meme that we only ban atheists who don't "toe the line." I wish that post could be unhidden to show the kind of nasty, horrible behavior exhibited by those who claim we're the bad guys.

But, it looks like it was wise to have that one on Ignore. Back he goes.