Democratic Defeatism seems to be a big theme at the moment. Eyore as the Democratic donkey?

[Armstead]

Can't have Bernie. He wants to do too much.

Can't have healthcare.
Can't control the financial system.
Can't make college affordable,
Can't reform campaign finance.
Can't stand up to the GOP in Congress.
Can't be liberal.

Can't tie our shoes.

Let's just call the election off and let the GOP have it all, officially. Why bother?

Or to quote Eyore....."oooooooooooo."

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. corollary - "we must just stay the course and have more of the same"

pretty courageous, hey?

[Armstead]

2. Keep that powder dry

[Uncle Joe]

3. What would Maya say?

Thanks for the thread, Armstead.

[Autumn]

4. The primary of the can't.

WTF. This is a parody

[Armstead]

5. No Hope/No Change

[hrmjustin]

6. Ok explain to me how he gets his proposals through a gop congress.

[DaveT]

10. of course the gop congress will resist

at first.

Sanders is candid about that. We the people will have to keep the pressure on the Congress.

Just as Harry Truman ran against the Do Nothing Congress, Sanders will, in 2018, continue the push for things the people need.



On the other hand, if you accept as immutable that the GOP will always control the Congress, you don't know anything about politics, and you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

This website is for Democrats, and it goes against the grain to "blame" Obama for much of anything, but his refusal to fight for public opinion is what created the GOP House majority in 2010 and the Senate majority in 2014. Sanders will not make that mistake.

It will be a fight and it might take all the way into a second term to accomplish the main parts of the Sanders agenda.


But my huge disagreement with you is in your fatalism. The GOP won the low turnout elections of 2010 and 2014. You take that as checkmate forever. I take it as the next challenge after beating the corporate representative named Hillary Clinton.

[hrmjustin]

12. You didn't answer question but you did get to insult me so I guess there is that.

Good night.

[Cartoonist]

16. Answer this question

What will Hillary accomplish with a republican Congress?

Deregulation and war.

No thanks.

[hrmjustin]

17. Compromise.

[retrowire]

19. the candidate who hates Republicans the most

and is the most hated by them...

would be able to compromise with them? lmao

[hrmjustin]

21. Political reality if she wins.

And if Sanders wins he will have to compromise.

[scottie55]

23. Compromise = Surrender

We have been moving towards an Oligarchy compromising for too long.

Sorry.

[hrmjustin]

28. If Sanders compromises with the gop is that surrender?

[AgingAmerican]

68. The GOP do not compromise

So why would we?

[Eko]

36. I remember the tea party

saying that. We should be as wary of our fanaticism as of theirs.

[retrowire]

39. this. nt

[Cartoonist]

22. Compromise with Hillary?

The GOPers will begin impeachment proceedings before her inauguration.

[hrmjustin]

24. You think they will easily compromise with a self described socialist?

[Cartoonist]

25. Boo! He's a socialist.

Get outa here.

[hrmjustin]

27. Hey you guys say what they gop will say about Hillary, I'm telling you what they will say about

sanders.

[Cartoonist]

29. Bring it on.

As you said, Bernie calls himself a socialist. He ain't afraid of the GOPers.

One of my clients is right wing. He calls Bernie a socialist. He respects Bernie and hates Hillary. Go figure.

[Ed Suspicious]

51. Find me a Democrat they won't trot out the old red scare for.

[hrmjustin]

54. I agree that they will do it to every democrat.

[Marty McGraw]

66. thing is

Bernie will have a movement (and I'm not talking old man BM) behind him with voice in numbers. HRC... Not so much.

[JDPriestly]

63. Bernie has served in Congress for years. There hasn't really been a problem because Bernie

is very practical. He displays honesty and common sense in his life.

As Rachel Maddow said, he doesn't have any enemies. He has worked with John McCain and others. Hillary has more trouble getting along with Republicans than does Bernie. Republicans hate Hillary.

[Ed Suspicious]

49. Compromised right up the ass end without our permission.

[hrmjustin]

50. Feel better?

[Ed Suspicious]

53. Not as long as I'm still talking to somebody who thinks progress is going backwards just a little

bit more slowly.

[hrmjustin]

56. Then I will spare you and end this conversation.

[TIME TO PANIC]

57. You can't compromise with fascist.

[JDPriestly]

61. Like Obama? The compromise that Obama has accepted has really hurt our country.

With Republicans, being strong and firm and not readily compromising what is right, being driven by morality and high ideals is the right course to take.

We should be shaming Republicans, not giving in to them.

Shutting down the government???

Extorting "compromise" from Obama's administration?

That should not have been possible.

If the Republicans have something positive, constructive, to offer, some ideas that that will solve problems rather than just ideas that obstruct progress and our working together as a country, then we can work with them.

If they don't do that, then we as a people should join together and strongly demand that they work constructively for the good of the country.

Bernie is challenging us to do that. Hillary is not.

[AgingAmerican]

67. Republicans never compromise ever

Any compromises would be entirely one sided

[Voice for Peace]

79. "Compromise is not a solution."

[bvar22]

82. hrmjustin, on some issues, there is no compromise.

The Warmongers want more war.
We meet them 1/2 way, and only bomb from the air and then just say,
"we have no boots on the ground, so it is all OK?"
How stupid is that???


No.
On many issues there is no "meet ya in the middle".
There are lines Democrats will should not cross,
and our safety net is one of those lines.
I will not "compromise" and cut our safety net by half.

After the last 30 years, and surrendering so many principles, it is obviously time for Democrats to hold our ground and protect those things that made our Party great... like a healthy and prosperous Working/Middle Class.

In a "compromise", both sides should get something.
If we continually keep surrendering our Democratic Values in the name of "compromise",
and get NOTHING in return...that isn't "compromise"..
That is "capitulation".

[Armstead]

84. and Bernie won't?

Newsflash...The GOP won't be any more receptive to Clinton...maybe less so

[closeupready]

88. Compromise is NEVER a fighter's first choice. Cowards? Yes.

Turncoats? Yes.

[R. P. McMurphy]

15. Excellent response! nt

[nashville_brook]

83. wow, that's a spectacular response -- needed the dose of optimism

[MrChuck]

34. It is my considered opinion

That a Sanders presidency represents an inarguable mandate of his policies.
It follows that an inactive legislature will either change their ways our be out of a job in 2018.
There would certainly be more to it than that but that's it in a nutshell.

[hrmjustin]

37. The problem with this line of thinking is that the gop will not be pushovers.

They will do everything to obstruct him and look what they did to Obama in 2009 and 2010. They obstructed and got rewarded for it in the 2010 elections.

I know if Hillary is elected she will face these issues but Clinton supporters acknowledge this. Sanders supporters seem to think everything will fall into place and that is wishful thinking.

[MrChuck]

40. This is one Sanders supporter who doesn't believe that.

I believe that electing Sanders equals the mandate and spurs higher turnout in midterms. There has to be a lesson learned from our experience with Obama.
The voting profile is changing as well.
Clinton supporters have Ben known to bemoan Sanders appeal with independents and conservatives but that could help in the midterms when we need to elect active legislators to work with Sanders.

[hrmjustin]

41. I think this is wishful thinking.

If he wins the nomination they will do everything to demean and belittle him.

[MrChuck]

44. Wishful thinking has taken a bad rap

But its grown up cousin, idealism, is still worth discussing.
Don't worry, we're all going to vote D in November but it would be a much bigger deal to get Sanders elected IMHO.

[hrmjustin]

47. Actually no there are Sanders supporters here who regularly say they will vote third party

if she wins.

[MrChuck]

52. Well see.

People vote third party in every election.
I'm not blowing my GE vote on a statement and handing the WH over to a shnook.
My vote in the primary is for Sanders though and I hope like hell that he wins.
It will stand for an ideal rather than simply a platform.
A platform I can live with but a revolution is something in which I can take pride.
I have been proud of our current POTUS and if it's Hillary I'll be proud of her too but I'm a Sanders man all the way to the convention.

[hrmjustin]

55. .

[betterdemsonly]

70. Their not allowed to say so. They'd be banned.

The real world isn't this board.

[hrmjustin]

72. Does not stop them from saying it.

[treestar]

94. +1

Exactly.

[treestar]

93. That's just silly

Congress is separate from the President and they always fight him. They have their own power and they won't just hand it over to follow what the POTUS wants. That's how the founders wanted it.

[Perogie]

42. so we should elect HRC so she can work with the GOP to screw us?

[hrmjustin]

43. She will work for us.

[Perogie]

45. .

Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

[hrmjustin]

46. I already own a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge but thanks for asking.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

74. Give me a compelling reason to do so.

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. So you are in agreement with the OP.

[hrmjustin]

78. No.

[fredamae]

81. 460 (est) Open Seats

No matter Who wins..."we" can and Should give the New POTUS a doable congress.

For that matter...how would Hillary fare under the same scenario? Do you Honestly believe either candidate would have a different experience than Pres Obama If "we" don't elect a new congress? WE, most of All Need a New congress, imo.

[Martin Eden]

89. The entire House is up for re-election

As are 24 Senate seats, 14 of which are currently held by Republicans.

Just as Hillary supporters are ready to give up on (what should be) the Democratic agenda with a "can't-do" attitude, they are already ceding the Congressional elections.

Yes, I know, political "experts" predict the GOP will control Congress during the next president's term, but how many of those experts just a few short months (or a year) ago predicted Bernie Sanders would be the next President of the United States?

That is the premise in the subject title of your post -- a scenario in which Bernie Sanders wins the White House.

That scenario represents an enormous political change in this country, and it will have happened due to large numbers of voters motivated to go to the polls for a candidate they can believe in. Young people who typically don't have a big turnout will have gone to the polls in droves to vote for Bernie Sanders and those voters will overwhelmingly cast their ballots in downticket races for D's rather than R's.

Hillary Clinton will not be able to GOTV like that. Voting against the much worse Republican candidate does not inspire and motivate like having someone to really vote for.

It makes no sense to automatically give up on retaking Congress just as it doesn't make sense to give up on Democratic values without even making the effort.

And if the Repukes maintain control of the House and/or Senate ... ?

There are many things a President CAN control, especially keeping us out of costly wars that only serve to further inflame the Middle East and perpetuate terrorism.

That is a big reason why I'm voting for Bernie Sanders, and why Hillary Clinton lost my vote.

[hrmjustin]

90. Then why did Sanders fail to raise money for the party?

[Martin Eden]

95. "Then"???

My argument is that voters who have been inspired by Sanders to go to the polls will also vote for Democrats in down ticket races.

That scenario is not predicated on Sanders raising money from the Democratic Party.

There is no "then," except with Bernie as the Democratic nominee we then have a better chance to pick up more seats in Congress.

It speaks volumes that your response was to ask that question rather than dispute the points I made about GOTV.

[hrmjustin]

96. You need money for gotv.

It is telling you have no answer for this question.

[Martin Eden]

97. Bernie is fundraising for his campaign with record numbers of donors

My answer is, and has been, that getting voters to the polls is the key -- and that Bernie is head and shoulders better than Hillary in that regard. Bernie's campaign has money, but money is not the key. In fact, American voters are increasingly turned off by the influence of big money from deep pockets and by politicians who are beholden to them.

Disparaging issues like Single Payer health insurance and debt-free higher education is wrong on many levels, and is at its core a capitulation -- as is accepting the inevitability of a GOP-controlled Congress.

Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of this status quo, which is one of the biggest reasons Bernie Sanders is surging towards the nomination.

Voters turn out for presidential elections, and if Bernie Sanders is elected president it will be due to inspiring voters to get off their butts and go to the polls. The vast majority of those voters will also vote D in House and Senate races, and it has zero zilch nada to do with Bernie Sanders raising money for a Democratic Party which increasingly fails to represent its constituents.

Change is imperative.

[hrmjustin]

98. Hogwash!

The party needs money for house and senate races and some of those races are in states that Sanders will not win or put money in.

Sanders did not raise a dime for the party and it is telling.

[Martin Eden]

100. Nonsense!

GOTV in a presidential election is first and foremost about having a presidential candidate people are enthused to get out and vote for! Hell, the DNC abandoned the 50 State strategy and has done a miserable job winning congressional elections regardless of money. DSW is the problem, not Bernie Sanders.

The most telling aspect of this little back-and-forth is your argument has been entirely about money without challenging the truth that Bernie is the candidate generating enthusiasm.

[hrmjustin]

102. The most telling thing is that you think it is ok to claim you want to take the house back

and not lift a finger to do it. That is what sanders is doung,

Our conversation is at an end.

[99th_Monkey]

7. That scratching sound

you might hear, is a cartoonist somewhere picking up on this. This is clever & brilliant imagery,
using Eyore like that. Haa-haa.. love it.

[NobodyHere]

8. I don't get the same vibe

It seems to me that people think the Democratic nominee has a pretty good chance of winning.

People around here IMO are only pessimistic on what the next president will be able to pass.

[Luminous Animal]

9. Bernie supporters are chicken shits no longer.

[pamela]

11. ...

[AgingAmerican]

13. Indeed

I have been saying this for years. The party has no vision anymore

[delrem]

14. Just watching the "bipartisan" Hillary Clinton train go by.

Investment bankers, war profiteers and Republicans are all in the engine cab and 1st class seats, but that's the way it should be in reality based politics, in pragmatic politics. You wouldn't want to stand alone with your hand up, saying you're going to stop it. Not even stupid dreamers like you. Or would you?

Hey wait, didn't one of them throw a bottle of distilled water out the window for us? Excuse me, I'm going to join the scrabble!

[brooklynite]

18. Nobody has said you shouldn't vote for Bernie because he "wants to do too much"

Nobody has said you shouldn't vote for Bernie.

What they HAVE said is that he still not seen as likely to win the General Election (notwithstanding the head to head "corporate" polls), and that is he does win, he's unlikely to achieve significant things his supporters say are absolutely necessary.

[virtualobserver]

65. The reality is, no matter who wins the nomination, we MUST take back the house and the Senate.

You could not find a more capable and reasonable President than Barack Obama.

If it were possible to compromise with the Republicans, he would have done so.

The nominee needs to nationalize the election and run against that Congress.

No matter who the nominee is, If we get another Republican House, it will be
nothing but bills to overturn Obamacare and end abortion.

[sorechasm]

87. GOP gerrymandered House is not forever, in fact it could end earlier than 2020 if more states

like California and Arizona put initiatives on the ballot to make districts represent actual populations and not favored parties:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/29/1394141/-Republicans-rigged-the-House-through-gerrymandering-Democrats-can-fight-back-at-the-ballot-box

Another issue that a Bernie Presidency will likely encourage states to take up. Of course, if the Independent turnout for Bernie reaches high proportions, many 'Republican Districts' could still lose seats. Anything is possible.

All starts with a good attitude.

[Armstead]

86. If he wins he'll push in the right diretion instead of making perpetual excuses for not trying

That's a big improvement over the perennial excuse making that occurs regardless of the political partisan power balance of the time, and whether the Democrats have a current majority or are in the minority.

Voting for Clinton because Bernie want to try too hard does not cut the mustard as a selling point.

[scottie55]

20. Yes We Can

I think I have heard that before.

[senz]

26. He wanted to pull Hill to the Left. Instead, her followers moved to the Right

and all that's Left is ....

us!

[draa]

30. Yeah man, fuck the American Dream.

It's dead because people quit trying. It's putrid corpse is now floating in a sea of complacency and fear. And it's a damn shame.

[forest444]

38. And the worst part is, that it seems to be by design (1971 Powell Memo).

Nobody can get us of out of this, not even Bernie. Not with these Rapepublicans controlling Congress anyway.

[draa]

58. Sorry, but you seem to prove my point.

I'm also not buying into that attitude. If it's doesn't work you keep trying. You damn sure don't quit.

Look, the GOP has tried to repeal the ACA 62 times. They knew it would fail every time they tried. But that didn't stop them. You want to know why their voters turn out and win them elections? It's because they try. They might suck as people but they're at least good politicians in that regards.

Our party leaders seem to be of the mind that they shouldn't even try. Results be damned, just don't try. Shitty attitude and I'm not playing that game anymore.

[forest444]

60. I always vote. Beyond that sometimes there really isn't much one can do.

Nevertheless, it's very good to see people who still conserve that fighting spirit. If you have that kind of energy, I say go for it.

As for our Republican friends, as they say: never underestimate the power of large numbers of idiots. Their advantage, like all dense people, is that they ask no questions - least of all how their vote will actually impact them (or the rest of us).

[HassleCat]

31. Good news, bad news

The good news is that we will win the presidency. The bad news is that the president's only accomplishment will be 311 vetoes of Obamacare repeal.

[slipslidingaway]

32. OMG, You have touched on a nerve, the Dems cannot do anything because ...

the Repubs are essentially all too powerful. In reality each party plays one against themselves and the little people lose.

How many years can the Dems play Eyore, whom I happen to love, but not one to lead in battle.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. But what about "investor confidence"???

Don't you know that's all that matters???

[Armstead]

105. yeah, more important than "citizen well-being," I realize

[Spitfire of ATJ]

106. They snidely call that the "Happiness Index".

[billhicks76]

35. You're Awesome...To Hell With The Fakes

[Fawke Em]

48. Don't laugh, but I sleep with an Eeyore every night.

Two.

Meh... they're not the same donkeys!

[TIME TO PANIC]

59. Love this post!

[Trajan]

62. I disagree ...

Bernie's vision is winning .... Sourgrapes isn't going to win the day ...

Stick around ... It's gonna be a fun ride this time around ....

[azurnoir]

64. when it comes to Bernie the Democratic party should be this Eeyore

[stillwaiting]

69. We can't have nice things in this country, and it's very important...

... that we don't even try.

I mean isn't it obvious that we shouldn't support candidates that want things that other developed countries offer their citizens even when a majority of our citizens support those positions? We should support the candidate that doesn't support policies that a majority of Americans want even when those policies are amazing and would drastically improve the health, well-being, and happiness of American citizens.

THAT'S the smart thing to do, and we shouldn't be selfish. Wall Street executives have to feed their babies you know!

Let's keep on electing Democrats that DON'T want things that will make all of our lives so very much better. It just makes sense.

[randome]

71. Sanders is not a Democrat.

If he represented a legitimate political party, he would run as what he is: an Independent. But he knows the only way to effect change is to run under the Democratic banner. In that way, at least, he's a pragmatist, like all successful politicians.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

85. A pragmatist is not the same as a defeatist /nt

[randome]

99. No, the defeatists are those who have given up on the Democratic Party...

...while hoping for an Independent to rescue them. I honestly don't see how that's going to work.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

104. The fact that it took an independent to come in and represent the urge for change.....

reinforces the point.

[99Forever]

73. Yep. The Surrender Monkeys are thick this morning.

"Oooooooooooo, but soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to do anything that realllllly makes a diffference."

[xynthee]

76. Nothing is possible, so don't even try

I LOVE this post from DailyKos' One Pissed Off Liberal:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/12/1459575/-Nothing-is-possible-so-don-t-even-try

snip:

We have been so brow beaten and demoralized by decades of corruption, perfidy, malfeasance and incompetence in our 'leaders' that many of us have given up all hope of ever changing anything.

We can't have peace or universal health care or prison reform or fairness. We can't do anything about homelessness, poverty, racism, the Military Industrial Complex, big money in politics, price gouging in medicine, Wall Street thievery or any of the many other maladies that plague us. We are powerless because of republicans or gerrymandering or 60 votes or conservatives or red states or whatever.

With entrenched and powerful special interests zealously guarding the status quo, we will find changing anything a hard dollar as long as we continue to lie down and let them roll over us on every issue that matters. God didn't create these problems and curse us with them. These are all man made problems.

---

JFK understood visionary leadership. Think big, aim high, proclaim your goal and then figure out how to get there. You don't figure out how and then proclaim your goal based on what seems doable. You go big, commit to the goal and then figure it out. You don't limit yourself to safe goals. You don't think small. You don't dwell on all the reasons why it can't be done. You commit and then figure it out.

[orpupilofnature57]

77. Not if Your a Bernie supporter, because residence from the DNC has only fortified the view

it isn't who You've been married to, it doesn't matter who endorses You, it won't mean anything how hard MSM manipulates the opinion of fictitious Americans, The only thing happening is that people are starting to really think of the likelihood of Hillary policing the same people who have made her, No dismay just connecting the dots .

[Larkspur]

80. Those are the sounds of the Wall Street wing of thee Democratic Party

who are under pressure from their "Sugar Daddies" in Wall Street.

I'm glad Bernie took the path he did. He first researched if the people wanted a real change. Apparently, he found an untapped reservoir of populist anger on Main Street that he could bank on to support a campaign that wants to win the nomination and GE and not just be a Don Quixote type venture.

[hrmjustin]

91. If Sanders wants to do all thesevthings why didn't he raise a dime for the party?

[treestar]

92. It's not defeatism and you are still hanging onto the Presidency only

We have to get Congress back. Why is that so hard to see? How do we do that? It has nothing to do with Bernie. Each of the states and the 435 Districts. It is not defeatism to recognize reality that there still are Republicans and red states. Mere optimism won't change that. You have to change those voters' minds. It doesn't work to just hope for it.

[Armstead]

103. True about Congress -- but the same pattern applies there too

You have to work to change voter's minds by standing for something, selling it and fighting for it.

"We can''t do that because..." is not a winning message on any level.

But that has been the basic message from too many Democrats for too many years. There are always excuses for inaction given endlessly, regardless of whether majority is D or R or divided.

It's not just the current defeatism used as a selling tool ("Vote for Clinton so you won't be disappointed by Beanie's inevitable lack of succerss in getting anything done&quot .

[stone space]

101. "Could take months, or even years", said Eyore, sadly. (nt)

[Armstead]

107. Just to add that Hillary herself earned some Eyores last night.