wow. so hillary winning depends on young people NOT voting? how sad.

[restorefreedom]

clearly millenial and very young voters are overwhelmingly supporting bernie, which is why so many of the landline m$m polls have been off. i have actually seen people say in a pro hillary thread that older voters are more dependable and that the young voters probably won't bother. besides being flat our wrong (young people are jazzed to vote and caucus for bernie), it sounds as if the hillary camp is counting on the absence of young voters in the exercise of our democracy in order for her to win.

never thought i would see dems hoping people stay home and not vote. but i guess that is the only chance she has now.

another very sad and desperate sign of a withering campaign.

[Autumn]

1. Interesting isn't it.

[restorefreedom]

2. yes. and utterly pathetic. nt

[Autumn]

4. I think that this will help the Independent party to grow.

The two party system doesn't seem to be working.

[restorefreedom]

11. i would love to see a four party system

progressives, headed by bernie. dem centrists, headed by a reasonable dem centrist.
conservatives, ala the michael steele type. and i suppose the wackos will have to have their own party, too.

[Hortensis]

32. I agree. That would be sad if it came about.

It would also be sad, and likely disastrous, if a candidate could be elected against the opposition of the most educated and experienced blocks of voters. Fortunately, that kind of candidate is not running under OUR party's mantle, and our Democratic nominee will have the support of all but a few wingers, whoever he or she turns out to be. That's because most of us are more open minded and balanced than otherwise.

[restorefreedom]

47. so do you favor two parties or more?

i would rather see the rw wackos dominate one party out of four than one party out of two, like what is now.

[MoonchildCA]

87. Yes, and then we have coalitions to get things done.

Much better, I think.

[restorefreedom]

109. +1 nt

[saidsimplesimon]

100. I disagree, Autumn. More than ever,

we Americans are united in our desire to elect fellow citizens who represent US as a whole. How would adding another party, beholding to the current rules, benefit the 99%?

Due to my volunteer efforts, registering voters, charity fund raisers and former career, I am registered as an Independent.

[Autumn]

106. No we not united in our desire to elect fellow citizens who represent US as a whole.

We are two parties looking out for the needs of the top tier of America and working on keeping the people divided. On this we will have to just agree to disagree.

[AlbertCat]

128. We are two parties looking out for the needs of the top tier

Indeed.

But more than 2 parties...preferably an UNEVEN number, like 3 or 5...

....more than 2 parties would delete this "us vs them" divisive mentality that we have had since it was deliberately orchestrated by the Gingrich Revolution.

When I was a kid we usually had a conservative executive and a liberal Congress (meaning both House and Senate).... or vice versa: a Dem president and a conservative Congress. These two played off each other and government happened.

Now we have a Conservative Congress than won't play with a supposedly liberal Exec, and the Dem solution has been to go more conservative. It doesn't work. It just becomes a one party system essentially. And that we really DON'T want.

I think Indies want the back and forth that we used to have, not all liberal and not all conservative.

We really need to get back to a media that isn't so much propaganda. Science has got to be taken seriously and the notion that every opinion is equally valid has to go.

[CorporatistNation]

167. Hillary Gets It Not... That The Kids See This As A BIG PArty that They Are in Charge of! They

WANT BERNIE TO WIN WITH THEIR HELP!

[Still In Wisconsin]

3. Yup. We now have a major Democratic candidate relying on voter suppression to win.

Thanks, Shillary.

[Nitram]

6. So now you are accusing Clinton of voter supression, Wisconsin?

I never expected Democrats to stoop that low.

[Still In Wisconsin]

10. "I never expected Democrats to stoop that low."

You know, I was just thinking the same thing...

[restorefreedom]

12. you beat me to it! nt

[Duckfan]

102. She is not a democratic

[SammyWinstonJack]

104. Yeah me either, but we are talking about HRH here.

[Thenewire]

64. A large number of them aren't democrats or liberals.

Sanders supporters are very much like Ron Paul followers back in the day. They are a bunch of zealots who believe every word that comes from their leader's mouth to be uncompromising perfection without questioning the implementations or ramifications. They are willing to put progressive groups under the bus if they don't align with their ideas on the basis that they aren't 'pure' enough.

[Roy Ellefson]

78. not even close to the truth

this is not even close to the truth. I'm 57 years old my wife is 55 we both come from New Deal Democratic Party roots. Neither of us have ever voted for a Republican, both are strong supporters of unions, environmentalists. My late father and her late father were active in their local Democratic Parties--both holding Party office at the local level--both would be 100% behind Sanders (they of course would also vote for whoever the Dems nominated.) To compare my wife and I to Rand Paul supporters is offensive and ridiculous--the sort of nonsense that will drive more and more of us away from HRC.

[Still In Wisconsin]

82. I think he/she said RON Paul but your point still stands. n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

80. Excellent broad brush there. Bunch of zealots. Right.

There are scores of DEMOCRATS I would rather vote for than HRH. Bernie happens to be the one I allign most closely with.

And when it comes down to it, should Hillary get the nomination (and she's still a prohibitive favorite to do so) I will vote for her. Then, if she wins, I will be fucked over by her corporations-first common people 623rd policies.

[MoonchildCA]

91. Funny, but that's how I feel many Clinton supporters are.

Except it's the corporate master's message filtering through her, with just enough of a sprinkling of progressive ideas to make people believe she's on their side.

I believe Bernie supporters are free thinkers who believe this nation can be better than it is and overcome the stranglehold corporate America has on this country.

Bernie has been my favorite politician for years, because he has been the most outspoken on this issue. Money in politics is the most dangerous thing this country is facing, and I believe you can trace almost every problem back to it. Bernie's candidacy is finally bringing this issue front and center, exactly where it needs to be.

[Rilgin]

94. And Hillary Supporters

Put their head in the sand deep deep deep whenever they look at Hillary. It is true that Bernie is partly a symbol of our aspirations in addition to having a pretty clear history as a true progressive politician. This is because after years of establishment politics there is a true hunger for authenticity in our leaders. However, we all know Clinton and Clinton supporters can not actually look at the fact that the country knows her and believes her to be dishonest. Further, while they also put their hope in Clinton as a symbol of their aspirations for progress they totally ignore with willful blinders her past actions, policies, flip flops, and votes.

1. The first and foremost issue with Clinton is she voted for and actively supported the Iraq War. The spin and twists and turns to avoid confronting that vote is amazing. The twists to avoid looking at her speech at the time to present her vote as a vote for a last attempt at peace given the millions demonstrating and the mobilization of the military is laughable.

2. The Hillary Supporters then have to ignore her clear ties to Goldman Sachs, Private Prison corporations and Insurance Companies. The twist and turn here is to try to convince themselves and everyone else that all these people are giving money for nothing and that this is not pay to play corruption. They argue against Citizen's United because we all know that money in politics is corrosive and corrupting. The heads are deep in the sands in thinking this applies to everyone but Clinton.

3. Her money, the foundation, Bills Money and the email trail are sitting there under the surface. She is part of a political system of money supporters and old school political favors. It is soft corruption not unique to Clinton. Each release of emails and her connections to financial corporations that allowed her and Bill to build a billion dollar foundation and a private fortune brings additional grounds for attacks on her both with validity because of the business as usual politics or because of the way it can be spun by her real enemies.

4. There are numerous other issues, acts, positions, and traits that the supporter is forced to ignore in Clinton's history but I would focus on one last. The main theme I see in all the supporters posts is evidence free claims that she is experienced, competent, a fighter etc and most importantly electable. She polls as dishonest and has high unfavorables in all but a small segment of the Democratic Party because of all the above. I wont focus on the Republican Party long term hatred but her total lack of support in the Independents and her lack of any enthusiastic support from half of the Democratic Party. We do not have to guess on this. She lost in 2008 despite being early anointed with supposedly no opposition then as well. Obama was not supposed to challenge her. 2008 was not just about Obama's strengths it was about Clinton's weakness as a Democratic Party candidate not just a General Election Candidate.

Negative Campaigning, money, media, and fear may allow her to survive this Primary but this is not the same thing as Hillary being a good candidate. What she has is ambition. She really should have curbed it, looked at what happened in 2008 and not run rather than try to win through power politics. We might have had other choices than her or Bernie. Her ambition and her supporters inability to actually look at her past may propel us to a General Election loss.She is far from a lock.

[green917]

135. i couldn't have said it better myself!

Exceedingly well said and, absolutely, poignant and true!

[draa]

157. Right on.

Shout it loud and proud and don't let anyone shut you up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

105. What a pant load.

[green917]

132. this is so ridiculous as to be offensive!

I've seen just as much sycophantic nonsense come out of secretary clinton's supporters as i have from senator sanders' and to actually equate us to libertarians is ridiculous and, frankly, offensive to those of us who have been fighting for the ideals of this party for decades. Paul Wellstone was, I'm very proud to say, my Senator and, I assure you, he would have been firmly in senator Sanders' camp (if not his running mate).

[ieoeja]

118. Some of us still remember her voter suppression efforts against African-Americans in Nevada 2008.n/t

[sarge43]

136. Do you mean something like red baiting?

No, that's not stooping; that's digging down to the magma.

[workinclasszero]

24. Voter suppression?

Really??

Tell me what kinda "revolution" is it when young people cant be bothered to get off their damned couch, turn off the TV and go vote for the future of their country? Voter suppression, now that is really funny!!

We will see in 11 days what the "Bernie Revolution" is all about eh? Real or hot air!

Like it or not, the people who have least voted for DECADES are the young! It is a fact! And most people who still have a landline are older and its a historical fact that that age group are the most likely voters!

Sorry if those facts don't fit into the "Bernie Revolution" narrative being pushed around here.

[Still In Wisconsin]

29. Hey, awesome... if you're right (and you might be) Hillary will win the nomination.

Then, when the general election comes around, and HRH NEEDS new/young voters to win, and she generates at best a "meh" from this demographic, what then? Obama appealed to this segment of the electorate bigtime. Hillary? Um... something along the lines of "vote with your head, not your heart" and "be pragmatic about what is possible." Nothing like wet blanket comments to energize your voters, especially the young ones.

You're probably right, what remains of the Bernie revolution, if you want to call it that, will undoubtedly be crushed by Madam President. Or by a Republican. Go ahead and revel in that if it works for ya.

[workinclasszero]

41. I dont give two s**ts about anyone, young, old or in-between...

Who is stupid and nihilistic enough to sit on their hands in the general and let a nazi like Trump or Cruz get elected president!

F**k them! They are de-facto REPUBLICANS!

[Still In Wisconsin]

61. OK, cool. So all the people who sat out in '04 but turned out to help elect Obama,

all de facto Republicans? Yeah you're right! Party above all! Fuck them! Who needs them anyway?

Hint: Hillary will need them. But, please continue to denigrate the marginal voters who usually swing elections.

[workinclasszero]

68. Yeah anyone who thinks any republican

would be as good as any democratic president, can go F themselves, IMHO.

[Still In Wisconsin]

74. Exactly!! Just ask President Kerry and President Gore!

[green917]

139. for the win!

Precisely! secretary clinton and her supporters have continually marginalized those of us who have a slightly different vision for this country but, alas, she doesn't win the white house without us (i will vote for her if she wins the nomination much to my chagrin). That's not really where her problems in a general election reside though. Her favorability rating amongst independents is even worse today than it was in '08 (and it was abysmal then) and the republican base hates her with such passion that they will come out in droves just to vote against her!

[nyabingi]

126. They will only slightly be worse than

Hillary Rodham Clinton, and I say that with all seriousness. Hillary is not only a Republican in terms of mentality, but she's a neocon to make it worse.

[farleftlib]

156. Thank you for that

She is only the lesser of two evils by the slimmest of margins. I dread her almost as much as the R alternative.

[pangaia]

107. I will just make one comment.

The fact that you think young people sit around watching TV is very telling.

They are more likely to be watching Netflix, if you get my drift.

[ieoeja]

116. Some of us still remember her voter suppression efforts in Nevada 2008. n/t

[jeff47]

131. You can tell how in-touch this poster is with young people

with the reference to "TV".

[Tanuki]

44. I must have missed this story out of Wisconsin.

What happened?

[mythology]

76. Please document and cite your claim

Be explicit in how the Clinton campaign is trying to make it harder to vote. Are they making laws requiring specific ids, doing away with poll hours, or scrubbing voter rolls? If not you should have the integrity to delete this and apologize.

[Nitram]

5. That is a very far-ftetched and unsubstabntiated charge you make, Restore.

You have not a shred of evidence that the Clinton campaign " is counting on the absence of young voters in the exercise of our democracy in order for her to win." Shame on you.

[restorefreedom]

9. the posts are right there in gdp

i am not going to link to them because i don't want to point the finger at individual posters...that's not how i roll.

but you will see such comments in poll threads. that is all i will say.

[Nitram]

22. Posts by the Clinton campaign?

What you've done here is take an observation that some people believe Clinton would benefit from a lower turnout by millennials - and extended it to say that the Clinton campaign is counting on a lower turnout - which then elicited a comment that Clinton is guilty of voter suppression. If you guys aren't trolls, you for damn sure aren't liberals.

[restorefreedom]

30. i never said the posts were from the campaign

i said they were in gdp but that the campaign clearly benefits from young people staying home. i did not quote or claim to quote anyone from the official campaign.

but if you believe they are not secretly hoping that the young bernie supporters stay home, i would say welcome to political strategy 101.

its all about gotv and hoping your opponents supporters do not.

[Nitram]

34. So you admit that you are projecting you own clueless notions off "political strategy" on...

...the Clinton campaign. 'Nuff said.

[restorefreedom]

43. i formed an opinion of what would benefit the campaign based on comments in gdp posts

i thought i was pretty clear about that.

thanks for kicking the thread!

[Nitram]

46. No problem. I'd like people to see how far from the facts Bernistas can stray...

...in their fear and loathing of Hillary Clinton. Seriously, accusing Clinton of voter suppression, as Wisconsin did back there is beyond the pale.

[ieoeja]

121. Some of us still remember her voter suppression efforts against African-Americans in Nevada 2008.n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

45. Here's a summery of some of her '08 shenanigans:

http://www.alternet.org/story/73782/hillary_clinton's_dirty_campaign_tactics

[restorefreedom]

115. thanks for posting that. nt

[Still In Wisconsin]

33. So what, in your mind, makes a liberal?

Is it campaigning for the status quo? Railing against universal health care? Foreign policy hawkishness?

Do tell.

[Nitram]

39. Beinmg a liberal is certainly is not making up stuff out of whole cloth. That's what the right does.

You accused the Clinton campaign of "relying on voter suppression." The OP never even mentioned voter suppression, but you had to take it a couple of levels farther out into imaginary land.

[Still In Wisconsin]

51. Gosh you're right...

Anything less than fawning regarding HRH is either imaginary or misogynistic. How could I be such a dingbat?

[Nitram]

60. Oh my gosh, a devastating blast of sarcasm! You accused the Clinton campaign of voter supression.

I suppose that could be considered both imaginary and misogynistic.

[Still In Wisconsin]

66. Nice! you got BOTH HRH talking points into one rebuttal.

I understand you believe it's imaginary (because HRH never does anything that is not beyond reproach). But... misogynistic? Um... how?

Oh, yeah, I forgot. She has an XX 23rd chromosome. So, misogyny!

[Nitram]

67. All right, Wisconsin, I'll bite. What evidence do you have that the Clinton campaign has..

...or is planning to undertake voter suppression?

[Still In Wisconsin]

71. Past behavior for starters...best predictor of future actions.

See link I posted above or google "Hillary Clinton voter suppression 2008 primary"

[Nitram]

75. In other words, your evidence is imaginary.

Why am I not surprised. S'long.

[Still In Wisconsin]

77. Again, imaginary = puts dear Hill in a bad light.

S'long to you too.

[Truprogressive85]

141. 2008 seems to be a haze for HRH supporters LOL

In a statement, campaign manager David Plouffe said there had been more than 200 separate reports of “incidents of trouble” at caucus locations, including early closings, a shortage of registration forms, and random and non-uniform I.D. checks.

“This is in addition to the Clinton campaign’s efforts to confuse voters and call into question the at-large caucus sites which clearly had an affect on turnout at these locations,” said Plouffe. “These kinds of Clinton campaign tactics were part of an entire week’s worth of false, divisive, attacks designed to mislead caucus-goers and discredit the caucus itself.

[Rilgin]

161. Lol. Unintentional self immolation

You do know that there is a candidate in the race who has made stories up at of whole cloth? It is the one you are supporting.

There are a lot of examples as you know both proven and just circumstantially proven. Some are just campaign negative claims but there are proven lies.

The most obvious one is the most obvious one which will be shown by the Republicans continuously if she comes out of the primary. Her story of running from sniper fire was made of whole cloth. It was made to try to burnish her credentials but it was absolutely whole cloth. Did not happen and she was caught by an outright lie (she forgot about video).

Are you saying she is not a liberal because she made "stuff out of whole cloth". Your quote.

[Still In Wisconsin]

38. There were documented cases of the HRH campaign trying to drive probable Obama voters away from the

polls in '08. But I'm sure they would never try THAT again...

HRH is about winning what she sees as HERS... little or nothing else.

[tularetom]

7. That may work for her in the primary

But she needs to remember that the same voters will stay home and not vote in the general election and that won't help her.

She really isn't much of a strategic thinker.

[restorefreedom]

13. funny how that hasn't occurred to them. nt

[seaglass]

8. Sure. n/t

[KingFlorez]

14. More like Sanders is relying on a lower turnout demographic to win

Let's be real, Clinton can't force younger voters to have lower turnout. In order to run a winning campaign, you have to turnout your base and further expand that base into more reliable turnout demographics.

[Ed Suspicious]

18. That is his precise point. If people, all people come out to vote, progressive ideas win.

End of story. Bernie wants every person to be energized to make their voices heard.

[lunamagica]

15. No. PoC are overwhelmigly for her.

That's why IA and NH are make or brake states for Sanders. For Hillary? Not as much.

She also scores higher than Sanders with women.

[Maedhros]

27. Not with millenial women.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/266090-sanders-winning-millennial-women-from-clinton

Bernie Sanders has a 19-point lead over Hillary Clinton among Democratic and independent women ages 18 to 34, according to a USA Today/Rock the Vote poll.

The Vermont senator, who has been surging in the polls in the last two weeks, won 50 percent compared to Clinton’s 31 percent among millennial women.

[lunamagica]

54. Millenial minorities are for her, men and women. eom

[Maedhros]

57. Maybe, but that's changing every day.

Personally, I think anyone under 30 who would consider voting for Hillary to be misguided.

[lunamagica]

72. That is just wishful thinking. I'm talking facts.

Remember Cornel West being a "Game Changer"? Wishful thinking. It didn't happen.

Remember Killer Mike being a "Game Changer"? Wishful thinking. It didn't happen.

[Maedhros]

97. Meh. Endorsements are part of the political game.

What is important? The ideas behind the personality.

On that score, Hillary fails and Bernie wins. People are smart enough to see that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. So win one is winning in one demographic, that happens to be historically ...

notorious for it's participation rate, and ; but, losing in 4 0r 5 demographics, noted for their participation consistency (in some case, VERY badly) ... the question becomes, will it be enough.

[Tanuki]

28. Indeed. The OP might just as well have said

"wow. so bernie winning depends on PoC and women NOT voting? how sad." See how it works, OP?

[restorefreedom]

35. bernie is bringing people over from both groups

and as a poster just said upthread, bernie wants everyone to vote, because when people come out, progressive ideas win.

thanks for kicking the thread,though. have a great day!

[lunamagica]

55. +1 Great post.

[MineralMan]

16. Oh, there are plenty of millennials supporting Hillary.

Other demographic groups, too. I hope everyone who is a Democrat turns out and votes, especially in the general election. The alternative is unthinkable.

[restorefreedom]

21. i actually hope everyone of every political stripe turns out

and let the chips fall where they may. a high participation rate and investment in our government ultimately benefits us all.

but so many feel ignored and invisible and feel that their vote doesnt matter. that is so sad.

[liberal_at_heart]

17. And yet Dems will be blaming Millennials if they stay home during the general election.

I am so tired of the bullying that goes on in partisan politics.

[Nitram]

25. Awww, feeling a little blue today, at_heart?

Feeling blue about something that hasn't even happened? A little quiet meditation might help restore balance.

[pinebox]

36. That's pretty shitty

Seriously, why be condescending? Rather uncalled for.

[Nitram]

42. It was uncalled for you to write that you would be blamed by fellow Democrats if Clinton lost.

You are the one playing the victim. I call that pretty shitty.

[pinebox]

49. Huh?

Nitram, I don't believe that was me? I've been gone a few months.

[Nitram]

56. I assumed the reply was from the person it was directed to.

You can change the pronoun "you" to "liberal_at_heart".

[pinebox]

83. lol

it happens

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Millennials are voting and they will win this for Bernie.

Yeah, it's pretty sad the HRH and her supporters want young people to stay home - classless.

WHICH MEANS EVERY MILLENNIAL IN THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO REGISTER TO VOTE AND SHOW THE OLIGARCHY HOW MUCH POWER THEY YIELD.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[firebrand80]

20. Older voters are more dependable

When political campaigns are organizing their ground game, they focus their attention on how likely they are to vote.

What is the biggest determiner of whether or not someone is going to vote? It's past voting behavior. The people most likely to vote are the people that always vote. The people that always vote tend to be older folks. This has been true in election after election; it's not a guess or a hope by the Clinton campaign, it's what always happens.

This isn't to say that a campaign can't turn out voters that don't normally vote. It can be done, but it's tough to do. You have to have a much larger and more active GOTV targeting those folks. You also have to be realistic about how much you can reasonably increase turnout in those populations. For example, if you think you can win an election by increasing youth turnout by 10% or so, you might pull that off; If you're counting on increasing youth turnout by 50%, that's fools gold.

What does all of this mean for Bernie? It's tough to say at this point. It looks to me that Bernie has reassembled major parts of Obama's primary season coalition, but he doesn't have all of it. This may propel him to wins IA and NH, but it's looking problematic for him in the South.

[riversedge]

23. You sure read a lot of assumptions between the lines and come up with silly nonsense claims for

a headline.

[seaglass]

31. I think I have spent 1/2 my day here today and what passes for clear logical thought is REALLY

lacking. Maybe there's a contest going on to see who can get the most replies or recs, I can't figure out why else 1/2 the stuff that's posted in GDP is here.

[riversedge]

48. Lot of times I think it is posted just to see who can make the most outlandish claim about

nothing. Maybe the winner gets a unicorn? or a pony??????

[Nitram]

62. Maybe the winner is a unicorn or a pony.

[restorefreedom]

120. actually, we get to choose between a mountain bike

and a ps 3

[Mike Nelson]

26. She was just now speaking at a college...

...saying she knew there were people there she hoped to "win over." I think she would like young people to vote for her... and Bernie would like old people to vote for him. I hope everyone votes!

[riversedge]

50. That would be nice.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. LOL ...

never thought i would see dems hoping people stay home and not vote.

Yet another argument based on nothing more than what someone thinks other people think; but, have never said.

[restorefreedom]

58. i am really trying not to link to specific posts

i don't like pointing at individuals. but some here are challenging my intent not to do that.

still, i refer you to a variety of poll threads in gdp.

[Nitram]

65. Restore, when you use the term "Clinton camp"...

...are you referring to the Clinton campaign or Clinton supporters?

[restorefreedom]

110. i use it in a broad sense to include all who are for clinton

not specifically a reference to the official campaign. thats just my verbiage. i am sure others use it to refer to the clinton campaign. if i had a quote from someone on their staff, i would have quoted and cited it.

[Nitram]

112. That is the wrong usage of the term "camp" in this context.

If you google "Clinton camp" you will only find references to the Clinton campaign. That doesn't excuse Wisconsin's leap into accusations of voter suppression, though.

[restorefreedom]

117. well, at least my usage of the term is in thread so no misunderstanding

and as you might expect, i don't typically google "clinton camp" lol.

and fwiw, i think that hoping for a low turnout of any group because they don't support a given candidate is a form of suppression. all candidates should be actively encouraging EVERYONE to vote, frankly, even those on the other side. at least thats my opinion

have a nice day

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. Fund the post and paste a line from it/them ...

I will find them myself. Or, PM me.

[restorefreedom]

114. the notes in brackets are mine for clarification.

pieces of a conversation from a gdp thread posted today:

"Oh the age group that actually votes in primaries! [in ref to 55+]
Looks good for Hillary then! "

" except when a candidate inspires the young and has 90,000 volunteers on the ground....
so we will see"

" The age of reliable voters." [ 55+]

i left user names off intentionally.

i found the one that seemed disappointed that bernie is inspiring the young to be particularly sad.

[1StrongBlackMan]

122. So ... referncing historical data (i.e., facts) is, somehow, hoping the youth vote doesn't vote? ...

That seems to be a twist beyond reason.

[restorefreedom]

127. showing any concern that young people might be voting

because bernie is inspiring them is sad imo. and the op was an opinion piece. i based it on comments from others. no sources or authors, just my opinion. i am sure some will disagree.

have a nice day, 1StrongBlackMan

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Yes ... many will disagree, particularly, those that don't read things into what hasn't been said.

[restorefreedom]

133. well, based on what i am seeing,

not everyone disagrees. i suppose it will all come out in the wash, as they say...

[1StrongBlackMan]

137. That still doesn't validate reading stuff into what hasn't been said.

[restorefreedom]

140. i read some comments, formed an opinion,

and shared it. people with opposing opinions shared theirs. happens every day here at du. how else do you interpret the following:

"Oh the age group that actually votes in primaries!
Looks good for Hillary then! "

" except when a candidate inspires the young and has 90,000 volunteers on the ground....
so we will see"

potato, potaaaado, i guess.....

[1StrongBlackMan]

145. No ...They are saying potato ...

you are hearing applesauce.

"Oh the age group that actually votes in primaries!
Looks good for Hillary then! "

" except when a candidate inspires the young and has 90,000 volunteers on the ground....
so we will see"

Is in no way hoping they don't vote.

[restorefreedom]

150. well it sounded like that to me. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

154. I'm sure it did ... Have you asked yourself, why? eom.

[restorefreedom]

158. yes i did ask

i believe the numbers, at least in terms of young people, are with bernie. indys and unaffiliated left leaners also seem to prefer bernie. so if those groups come out in droves, it benefits bernie and hurts hillary. makes sense for a hillary supporter to perhaps, want those groups not to turn out so much. i can understand it, if that is how they feel. but i think the idea of getting as many people as possible involved in our democracy is bigger than any one candidate. on both sides, actually. believe it or not, i am glad trump is inspiring possible new voters on the repub side. i hope they lose, but the participation is encouraging imo.

[Nitram]

63. Exactly!

[ieoeja]

125. Some of us still remember her voter suppression efforts against African-Americans in Nevada 2008.n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

129. I remember it, too; but, that doesn't make this fact. eom

[ieoeja]

134. Just correcting some logic in your post.

Yet another argument based on nothing more than what someone thinks other people think; but, have never said.

Her 2008 voter suppression efforts are certainly more than just "what someone thinks".

It would have been better written as, "yet another argument based on past Clinton actions and what that makes someone thinks other people think; but, have never admitted in public."

[1StrongBlackMan]

138. That's not "correcting my logic" ...

And your "better written" says something I never intended to say, or mean.

[ieoeja]

144. My "better written" was the truth. So of course you never intended to say or mean it.

That would clearly go against your modus operandi.

[1StrongBlackMan]

146. "Truth" ...Well, that settles it. You get to speak "truth" for me. Thanks. eom

[ieoeja]

147. As long as you refuse to speak truth ... I suppose that, yes, I do have to. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

148. So ...you are the grand Poohba of Truth? Who knew ... forgive my insolence, oh wise one. eom.

[ieoeja]

149. All I did was point out an error. Your first reponse freely admitted that you, "remember it too."

You acknowledged making an inaccurate statement. You could have just left it at that. Instead you double downed by saying the accurate statement, which you acknowledged was correct, was something you, "never meant to say".

If you're going to leave an opening that wide, I'm going to drive through it. I am a very lazy man. I like doing easy things.

[1StrongBlackMan]

153. Okay. n/t

[Romulox]

40. The establishment requires that young people's unease at the Status Quo be tamped down.

It's crucial to their continuing power.

[randome]

52. You need to capitalize Establishment so we know what you mean.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[Romulox]

53. Nonsensical blather from you.

But hey, what's new?

[Cleita]

59. I don't doubt it. Every young person I meet under 25 wants

Bernie not Hillary.

[Nitram]

70. And how many million young people have you met, Cleita?

In how many states? this isn't just another bit of anecdotal "evidence" is it?

[Romulox]

73. The polls completely back up her anecdote. Try again. nt

[Cleita]

86. I live in a college town. I meet lots of young people volunteering for various

causes either passing out literature or tabling. I haven't heard one who wants any of the Republicans or Hillary as President. So in my area that's 100%. Other fellow volunteers have had the same results and I live in a county that votes very Republican. So maybe to you it's anecdotal but, trust me, you can take it to the bank.

[Nitram]

92. A college town in one city in one state.

I don't think you can generalize much from that when it comes to the national primaries.

[Cleita]

95. It serves as sampling, a legitimate method used by political

parties and marketing companies. However, you can peruse social media used nationally by young people, and as another poster said the polls, and you will find this to be true.

[Nitram]

164. I'm afraid it does no qualify as a significant "sample" because...

...a sample for a nationwide primary process would have to be demographically balanced across the entire nation, not one university or college.

[notadmblnd]

79. I also heard someone say that for every liberal she loses

She'll get two Republicans in exchange.

[Tanuki]

81. Maybe you shouldn't put so much faith in everything you "heard someone say" in the Bernie group!

[notadmblnd]

88. Excuse me? Did I say I had faith in the statement? Did I even give an opinion?

A little arrogant of you to assume what I think, don't you think?


I'm afraid that in your haste to get your rude comment and nasty attitude towards me out there - you failed to think that one through. SMDH

[Tanuki]

96. You're excused. I could just as easily say something like

"Excuse me? Did I say I was referring to that particular statement? Maybe I was just generally cautioning against putting faith in things you hear in the Bernie group, or anywhere else for that matter.

A little arrogant of you to assume what I think, don't you think?


I'm afraid that in your haste to get your rude comment and nasty attitude towards me out there - you failed to think that one through. SMDH " (note to inevitable jury...I'm quoting directly from notadmblnd in the last two sentences)

but that's not how I roll. I actually don't necessarily think you have any faith at all in the little anecdote in question. I certainly don't, which is the reason I responded as I did. I suspect you will find that equally arrogant, rude and nasty, as you put it, on my part.

[notadmblnd]

113. I don't think you were generally cautioning as you not only replied to me

you also used the word "you" in addressing me personally.

In the future, I would suggest, if you don't want people to think you are being intentionally rude and nasty to them specifically- you might want to exchange the use of the word "you" to another that doesn't imply that you are referring to them specifically. So, no I won't excuse you.

[Tanuki]

142. I promise to give your suggestion for my future comportment all the consideration it merits!

[notadmblnd]

143. uh huh.

[Nitram]

165. Nice comeback, natadmblnd!

[notadmblnd]

166. Your reply is clever too.

[guillaumeb]

84. The GOP also depends on young people not voting. Coincidence?

[Still In Wisconsin]

85. Not at all, since Hillary Clinton is basically a (pro-choice) conservative.

[guillaumeb]

89. As is her husband. And he governed like one as well.

[Nedsdag]

93. Young people need hope.

Telling young voters to settle and to wait until the time is right is not the way to go about it. I am surprised by the reaction by Hillary and her supporters regarding this. I know Hillary didn't raise Chelsea to "settle" for things.

Hillary is thinking from a legal/litigator point of view. She's always thinking about "settling" instead of the big picture. I understand her telling the hard truths regarding health insurance, but her negativity is turning me off and that's not right. Does she like lowered expectations? Enthusiasm will be a key come November. Everyone knows the other side will be enthusiastic. I'm not so sure about our side.

In the end, she may win the battle, but she will lose the war.

[Vogon_Glory]

98. Remember the 'Slacker Rebellion'? Maybe HRC Isn't Wrong After All

Sorry, but I'm not sure Hillary Clinto is wrong. While I applaud enthusiastic young voters,the sad fact is that enthusiastic young voters have been shown up time and time again during the last decade and a half by their apathetic, lazy @$$ contemporaries who respond to overtures like Howard Dean's by grooving on the party atmosphere, filling out the registration forms, then sitting on their backsides when it comes time to vote.

I loathe the Tea-Baggers, I hate the Baggers' agenda, but they do something that the lazy slackers who lived down to their names since then--the Baggers VOTE, the slackers don't.

And if the youthful non-voters of today look back forty-plus years from now and wonder why they'll inherit a "cursed" Earth resembling Judge Dredd's, it's because of their present-day sloth.

[restorefreedom]

123. perhaps this cycle will inspire people to actually vote. nt

[Vogon_Glory]

159. From your keyboard to God's monitor, but

From your keyboard to God's monitor, but I pray that if the young voters do pay a little attention, their brains aren't so blank that they'll vote for the Donald for the novelty of it.

[restorefreedom]

162. yeah. i am sure donald has his share of young folks

but i do believe the anti establishment vibe will result in a higher voter turnout. hopefully more to vote dem.....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

99. We will probably see reports of first time caucus goers not being counted.

[Cassiopeia]

101. No We Can't!

It's fucking bizarro world around here.

[tblue37]

103. Young first time voters helped put Obama over the top both times. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

108. +1000000

[zentrum]

111. You nailed it! nt

[marlakay]

124. Most kids know this

I am on college registering the kids and they know the percentages of them that don't vote, I tell every one signing up is not the important part its voting!

Everyone not only is excited but determined to figure out address they will be at on voting day etc. We don't vote here until June 6th so some kids go home in May.

[sixers0908]

151. wow

True☝

[Romulox]

152. I think that in a lot of ways, Hillary represents the last gasp of the Boomer generation.

Maybe even, in some sense, a referendum on the that generation's stewardship of once-wealthy, now much diminished nation they inherited

[PennsylvaniaMatt]

155. Students for Bernie

I noticed on my college campus students with a table set up raising money and support for Bernie.

This was back in September, well before his current momentum. On this particular campus, I've never seen students raising money for a candidate before this, especially this early in the process.

This is a movement. I am a college student. I never miss an election, including local elections. And I am voting for Bernie.

[Odin2005]

160. The Establishment has been shitting on us Millennials for years.

Look at all the BS about how "entitled" and "narcissistic" we are because we dare to want a fair society rather than being good corporate drones who stoically endure our oppression. We are a threat to them and they are doing everything in their power to silence us.

[restorefreedom]

163. yup. except this time, i don't see it working. nt