This message was self-deleted by its author

[darkangel218]

This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Sun Jan 24, 2016, 06:17 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Odin2005]

1. I agree with you!

And if that gets me banned too, so be it. I cannot vote for an imperialist warmonger backed by Wall Street. I refuse to be condescended to and bullied by "Very Serious People" to vote for the lesser evil.

[darkangel218]

3. +1

Enough is enough.

We've had enough. Screw the threats and bullying.

[Dawson Leery]

2. Et Tu Manny?

[darkangel218]

4. I'm not Manny. I'm darkangel218.

I've never been anyone else here.

Nice try though..

[enid602]

8. consensus

This seems to be the consensus among Bernie Supporters; if Bernie can't have it, nobody can. Kind of like a first love, I guess.

[darkangel218]

10. No.

More like staying true to ourselves.

Is that concept foreign to you? ( not saying it is, just wondering).

[Kali]

13. true?

like saying "fuck DU"? the many claims of hating DU and the promises not to post here anymore? that kind of true to yourself?

uh huh. you are just so truthy and solid!

[Katashi_itto]

114. Hows your kid?

[Kali]

191. which one?

you know, I once got in a bit of trouble here for posting personal info I found on FB. you should be careful.

two hides for wishing me dead and you ask about my kid? kinda creepy.

[Katashi_itto]

195. If you say so

It just seems to me every one of your posts (when taken in context) to darkangel runs on nothing but high octane hate. All one has to do is do a search on you and can see a pattern

Maybe you ought to get out maybe go to a library. Maybe Go to a dairy farm see how milk is produced. Go smell some flowers.

If I get a hide so be it.

[draa]

70. Damn right.

I have principles that I won't turn over to the establishment ever again. Not after this primary. I'd rather go down fighting than die on my knees.

[Hortensis]

104. Honestly? I look forward to the TOS kicking in so

that DU coalesces around our candidate. Can't come soon enough, and as for whether all or just some remain? For me that is yet another reason to vote for Hillary. I'm not interested in reading highly partisan smearing and trashing of the GOP candidate either, no matter how awful he is in reality.

[draa]

165. And when Sanders wins we won't have to listen to more Clinton white knighting.

Thanks.

[Fawke Em]

201. This place will only have 20 active members if that happens.

It'll be kind of boring.

[Hortensis]

218. I'm guessing many people have come and left

because it's not what they were looking for. Hopefully, some will stay.

In any case, no doubt many DUers who are strong Bernie supporters do care about electing Democrats to many offices and and will stay involved, with or without him. Plus, the Democratic Party is a genuine big-tent party. We have many groups with diverse viewpoints, including conservatives. I don't think we need to worry that strong disagreement will just disappear -- that WOULD be boring.

[CorporatistNation]

137. Yes, It IS Called Personal And Political INTEGRITY!

IF The Party and its "operatives" will not maintain INTEGRITY in the process WE can still reserve the option of retaining OUR personal and political INTEGRITY by following OUR own ideals and making the PERSONAL CHOICE to vote or NOT vote for whomever WE CHOOSE!

[Kali]

207. integrity?

OP claimed on another site she would vote for fucking Rand Paul before the Democratic nominee if it is Clinton. She seems to admire Trump quite a bit as well. Even here she posts her love of Ronald Raygun! integrity? yeah, whatever.

[darkangel218]

241. I would never vote for a Republican.

Keep your attacks coming.

[JRLeft]

12. I said I would vote for HRC if she's the nominee.

[enid602]

15. policy decision

I think that's the way to go. To me, it seems that this contest, despite all of the insults and demonization, will end up being a vote for Berniecare or Obamacare. In the last few weeks, Bernie has been fleshing out his SP proposal. I fully expect that Hill will present specifics as to how she will improve the insurance mandated ACA. The public will sift through it, and make a policy decision.

[JRLeft]

17. If Hillary wins Iowa the race is over period.

It's a wrap! If he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, then dynamics of the race change and IMO Hillary is in trouble.

[CoffeeCat]

59. The disdain for Clinton's

policies has NOTHING to do with Bernie Sanders.

I've had major problems with her corporatism, Wall Street connections, and neocon tendencies for more than a decade.

Some of you just love to try to paint Sanders supporters as "hating" Clinton because we want Bernie to win.

She's a standalone nightmare. Appointing Rovesy Kagan, the founder of the neocon movement, to be your bestest advisor when you're SOS, doesn't exactly foster warm fuzzies.

[Fawke Em]

203. I told my husband a year ago that if she ends up being the nominee,

I'd have to vote Green.

And that was several months before Bernie got in the race. I was looking at O'Malley back then.

I think her policies more mirror the GOP than the Democratic Party.

[Juicy_Bellows]

220. I remarked to my wife almost the same thing.

I said well, I'm voting for Jill!

Now I say I will write in Bernie if he doesn't get the nomination or maybe still go for Jill - either way my conscience will be clean.

[unapatriciated]

111. not true many of us have been D's for a very long time and

would continue to work to get Sanders policies through. But we will not allow a Trump or Cruz presidency.

[TIME TO PANIC]

182. I wouldn't have a problem voting for O'Malley if he where the nominee. n/t

[Jim Lane]

217. Wrong. It is nowhere near a consensus.

Quite a few Sanders supporters have said they would vote for Clinton. The holding of the nose and the pre-medicating with alcohol have been mentioned as adjuncts to the vote, but the vote will still count.

There are some people who take the stance of the OP that they won't vote for Clinton. My personal guess is that quite a few of them will, if Clinton gets the nomination, change their minds as Election Day approaches. The campaign will drive home to them how awful the Republican nominee is.

[passiveporcupine]

234. Yes, many will change their minds,

But I sincerely believe that the GOP has no chance of winning this election cycle, because the leaders of their party in this campaign are so extreme that they can be easily beat by any of our candidates. And that is probably why so many feel comfortable saying the will NEVER vote for Clinton. If the GOP were running a more reasonable candidate who was winning in the polls, I don't think we'd be seeing so many threads like this.

I will vote for her if she wins the primary, because I'm not a gambler. I want to be absolutely sure that the dems win. But if someone feels the dems are going to win no matter what, I'm not surprised that so many are taking principled stands against Hillary.

I think anyone who would come out and say that they won't vote for Hillary even if it means Trump or Cruz will win, and they are OK with that, probably should not be posting on DU.

Now guys, don't jump on me. Stop and think about what I just said. I'm a very progressive democrat, and I absolutely want Bernie or O'Malley over Hillary, but I'm also very much against Trump or Cruz winning, even if it just means four or eight more years of back peddling.

We cannot afford the back peddling.

What I am afraid of if Hillary wins, is that a lot of Dems might move to the Independent party out of disgust for the way this country and the dem party are headed and the fact that it doesn't seem like the people have the power to stop it.

[840high]

206. Silly.

[Kali]

5. ...

Star Member darkangel218 (13,914 posts)

I could never/will never vote for HC
Whether in the Primaries or GE. (Which I doubt she will get nominated for). But in any case...

I would /could never vote for her.

If the Admins wants to ban me, in case she gets nominated, so be it.

I am not a liar. I don't care for the bullies bullying me into votting for the mainstream candidate. It is not going to happen.


I, as millions of voters, will stay true to ourselves.

So take that, establishment/status quo lovers.


You can't destroy all of us. We are majority and we will prevail.

Toodles!!!

X

toodles.

[darkangel218]

26. And yes.

I still disagree with your pro - GMO propaganda.

And your pro minimum wage craziness.

You and Monsanto will never win. That simple, really.

[Kali]

194. pfffttt

I know where you think you got your erroneous GMO bullshit, but no idea where you have confused me with some minimum wage argument you may have had somewhere. Obviously some other person you can't handle.

[Renew Deal]

6. Did you read some Dr. Seuss before posting this?

Is she not pro-gun enough?

[darkangel218]

9. You think I am against HC because of "guns"???

[Renew Deal]

11. Your views certainly don't align with the "mainstream candidate" in that regard

Tell me that doesn't factor in at least a little bit.

[darkangel218]

18. Not at all.

Both HC and Bernie have the same view on that subject.

It has to do with EVERYTHING else they fundamentally different on.

[SheenaR]

62. This ^ n/t

[JTFrog]

14. IBTPPR. n/t

[darkangel218]

20. The Primary is not over.

It hasn't even begun yet.



*sighs*

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. You must believe that your vote belongs to you and not to a politician, party, or forum. K&R

[randys1]

133. My vote belongs to the party that wont purposely harm Americans...

I must vote for the party that will clearly, by large margins, do the least harm.

I must do that or I have no business calling myself an American or a man.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

157. The standards you set for yourself are draconian.

How would that work if you dare to think for yourself and vote for a candidate that isn't a Democrat?

My conscience tells me that voting for a candidate that I think is unfit to hold public office is the wrong thing to do. I've voted for Democrats many times and sometimes felt that I made the wrong choice and shouldn't have voted for them. Bill Clinton comes to mind. But, I never felt unmanned by doing so. And, although, I don't give a rip about patriotism I never even felt unAmerican for doing so. OTOH, I've never regretted voted for a third party candidate.

[randys1]

160. I didnt think it was possible to oppose in anyway what I said, but you managed to

do it in a very insincere way

ps

the least harm in 2016 involves actual deaths to human beings...if we go one way, people will die that wont if we go the other

How ANYONE can argue with me on that on a LIBERAL message board

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

164. I was being sincere.

I believe that everyone should vote according to their principles and conscience whether I agree with them or not.

[randys1]

166. So you are debating my statement that if cons take over the govt people will die?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

170. Not at all.

I'm saying that all people should vote according to their principles and conscience even if I disagree with them.

I certainly won't be voting for a conservative or a neoliberal.

[KingFlorez]

19. Supreme Court nominees matter

As does the ability to veto all sorts of crazy legislation that could come out of a Republican congress.

The majority of this country is likely to reject Trump or Cruz, who are far too radical for this country. When it comes down to the general election, we are up against some dangerous odds and we can't afford not to vote.

[darkangel218]

21. They do.

However, we can't vote for the lesser evil anymore.

We need a change. Our people are dying because of lack of healthcare and lack of a sustainable wage.

We need to survive. The 99% need to live as well.

[Sheepshank]

123. ...and you forgot the Children.

Last edited Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Would you like to be tied to a stake a well? I don't think Joan of Arc employed this much drama.

[polly7]

132. The millions of children in the ME and NA who've suffered, been maimed, killed, are

fleeing as refugees, found dead on beaches .... in large part, because of her actions?

Drama, drama!!!

[Sheepshank]

149. As part of this gbcw post it's quite a pathetic use of gripes.

When taken as a whole and with the DI link provided below the whole op has lost it.

Any idiot can invoke child labor laws, genital mutilaion, LGBT cruelty overseas, and Putin's manliness, but none of it amounts to a hill of beans when invoked by the op. Just makes them look desperate to appear valid.

[polly7]

151. You don't like the poster ............ big deal.

Now, what about the reality of the suffering of millions of children in the ME and NA?

[Sheepshank]

152. Start a new thread on this important matter

I'm enjoying sticking to the topic at hand....this latest drama.

[polly7]

153. No. But it's obvious to me the mention of those children is just more 'drama' to you. nt.

[Sheepshank]

155. Twisted logic employed....but ok whatever floats your boat nt

[polly7]

158. I wish the boats those refugee children's families were using to try to get

them to safety weren't sinking in the ocean and washing them up on beaches.

But whatever floats yours, eh?

[delrem]

28. Why vote for someone who denigrates your values,

and who promises to work closely with Republicans in a "bipartisan" ethic "to get things done", and who campaigns against her only other real contender with a meme that he can't possibly get things done, because nothing he wants to get done is in the Republican's interests?

That is lala land politics, my friend.

Wasn't it justice Kennedy, appointed by Reagan, who wrote the recent judgement on marriage equality?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/26/supreme_court_legalizes_gay_marriage_here_is_the_beautiful_last_paragraph.html

The best you can say is that some candidate might veto some Republican legislation?
How about usher Republican legislation through, in a thoroughly bipartisan manner.

How about "mending fences" or however it might be described with Netanyahu, during her first months in office, so as to get Iran squarely back in the cross-hairs of the PNAC wars? Because her "strength", as they call it in the MSM, is in her foreign policy gravitas?

[Fuddnik]

72. I think Bernie will have better SC and Federal Court nominees.

[delrem]

22. That's what democracy is about.

They can buy a party.
They can buy a thinktank or 10.
They can buy the MSM.
They can game the system with big money and PACs.
They can buy the MSM pundits.

But they can't buy your vote without your consent.
They cannot hold your vote hostage.

[darkangel218]

23. Exactly.

+ 1 million.

We are not for sale.
.


Let the wall street hawks try. To no avail!!


Screw their hypocrisy!

[840high]

208. .^that

[Beacool]

24. So? What do you want, a prize?

You can do with your vote whatever you want, no one cares.

I have no doubt that Hillary will be the nominee. You can stay home and mope or vote third party. Personally, I don't give a rat's tail end.

[darkangel218]

25. We don't want a "price".

We are expressing ourselves , just like you do.

We "dont give a rat" s tail" about you staying home either. (Your choice of words).


We prefer to be honest to ourselves and to what we believe in.

[Beacool]

27. Refusing to vote for the party's nominee is shortsighted and selfish.

But some of you can stomp your feet and pout if you want. I will vote for the nominee.

[darkangel218]

31. No it is not.

I will never vote for someone who sold our very principals to the ws.
Or someone who is against single payer.
Or someone who supports the DP.


I'm sorry, we have our limits.


We are Dems.

[blue neen]

71. It looks like you won't be voting very often in your lifetime.

There will always be candidates who you don't agree with 100%. It doesn't matter if it's 2016, 2036, or 1992.

[JonLeibowitz]

33. Funny, Ed Rendell came to a different conclusion

[in_cog_ni_to]

105. And did you notice any whining, threats, outrage over Rendell choosing to support Bloomberg

Instead of the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, Bernie? No.

They're all lying hypocrites.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Fawke Em]

205. No it's not.

Especially if the nominee, herself, is shortsighted and selfish.

[CakeGrrl]

226. Hmm

Quite a sea change from writing in the non-nominee in the 2008 GE.

Good of you to admit when you're wrong, you're wrong.

[joshcryer]

29. Would Sanders be an "establishment/status quo lover" if he endorsed her?

If he campaigned for her?

[delrem]

49. Yes.

[rpannier]

87. Of course he would

I mean, can't allow the meme to be disrupted by anything inconvenient

[joshcryer]

88. Waiting for an answer from the OP.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Temper tantrum

Who cares?

[darkangel218]

34. No. It is my stance. You will not compromise fundamental issues.

I am sorry you are crying.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Whatever

Who gives a shit about your adolescent whining.

[darkangel218]

38. Right back atcha.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Good one

You're sooooo provocative, with your "stances."



It's funny that you don't even get how childish you sound.

[darkangel218]

43. Look in the mirror before calling someone else " childish "

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. I'm not the onethrowing a temper tantrum daring the Admins to ban me

based on my "stances."

It's true baby shit. You're acting like an angry little toddler.

Grow up. It's just a message board, homie.

Sleep it off.

[darkangel218]

47. We don't have a nominee yet. You are the one throwing a "tantrum",

For all intents and purposes.

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Blah blah blah

I wonder if you'll even be embarrassed by your embarrassing behavior in the morning.

What a display!

[darkangel218]

52. "Blah blah blah"?

That is your defense for all your nasty name callings?? Lol whatever floats your boat I guess.

Like I said, look in the mirror.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. It's clear you just want to have your little temper tantrum and have people to bounce it off of

Just like any little toddler who wants attention.

Keep acting like a pouty, angry child. Like I said, nobody cares about your childish rants.

[randys1]

138. My concern is if this meme gets louder, the Bernie or bust stuff, that if Bernie does lose

we could have a potential problem.

This country will not, cannot survive a teaparty government.

Literally, we cant survive.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

32. Is this thread a clear violation of the ToS?

Why isn'the this thread deleted? http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[darkangel218]

35. Because we don't have a nominee yet.

Then again...and welcome to DU.

[DesertRat]

37. It definitely looks like it is

a clear violation of the TOS.

[darkangel218]

41. No it is not.

Do we have a nominee???

[restorefreedom]

116. nope. only after the convention. nt

[joshcryer]

78. Skinner is only going after advocates.

People can, so far, announce that they won't vote for the nominee (that includes Clinton supporters who have claimed they'd never vote for Sanders if he was the nominee).

But if you start advocating others join you in your efforts to not vote for the nominee, you're gone.

[SidDithers]

120. The OP hasn't said the magic words...

"... and neither should you."

Saying you, personally, aren't going to vote for HRC, even if she is the nominee, is fine, at least for now.

Encouraging others to not vote for HRC if she's the nominee is the TOS violation.

Sid

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Results of jury service:

PLEASE!!! This is just trolling. Hide it and let her think about it for a bit (4 hides already).

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 24, 2016, 01:36 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It is against TOS, encouraging others not to vote for HC in the GE
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: How is this not automatically banned?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Obviously, the poster thinks that her vote belongs to her to use in any way that is right for her and is not fond of being told how to vote by anyone. I agree with, and applaud, her.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I have to believe DarkAngel doesn't like being here at DU. Disruptive posting results in being put in the corner, comes back for two or three weeks, gets put back in the corner again, comes back, disrupts again. The only logical conclusion would have to be this is not the message board for DarkAngel.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[JonLeibowitz]

56. And yet, as we saw earlier today, Ed Rendell is allowed to be a PUMA with no condemnation.

[mythology]

99. To be fair, Rendell isn't advocating it on DU

That said, Rendell is a dumbass for that. He should look at Maine for what happens when the vote on the left is split between two choices. You get a nutjob like LePage winning with 38% of the vote.

I'm happy to vote for any of the three Democratic candidates as I don't see a significant difference between the three of them, especially as compared to the Republican candidates.

[randys1]

139. What does Rendell have to do with a post made at DU?

[JonLeibowitz]

142. Ordinarily? nothing.

But it seems hypocritical that no Hillary supporter condemned him while being strongly in favor of purity tests here (esp. when it comes to Bernie being an Indy). At least, it seems that way to me.

[randys1]

144. So there are moderate Dems who will on occasion (as opposed to 24/7 like all cons) be

hypocritical.

If certain people here still cant see the GRAND CANYON of differences between any con and Hillary, then no more talking will help.

Ask yourself why the vast vast vast vast majority of "Bernie or Bust" comments come from non minority, non Gay, etc.

There is a reason.

an important one

The answer is people with the most to lose, can see the reasons not to allow cons taking over.

I have said this a million times, I guess i have been wasting my time

[JonLeibowitz]

148. I don't disagree with you.

But it means ALL Hillary supporters here who saw my thread chose to side with Rendell. So they're moderates and arguably not even progreessives who are using the Party stick to whack Bernie when they don't even care about the Party themselves. Rendell isn't the point, he is a corp dem through and through. The point is who doesn't disagree with him.

As for me, there is no worry that I would be willing to crawl across razor blades to vote in the general election.

[GusBob]

42. The OP will stand but this will get a hide

Go fuck yourself loser

[ucrdem]

66. Jury results:

On Sat Jan 23, 2016, 11:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The OP will stand but this will get a hide
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1055841

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Go fuck yourself loser" definitely inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jan 23, 2016, 11:08 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: LOL, I'd just read this when I got the notice, which is funny because I was hoping a jury wouldn't hide it. Well, having the opportunity, I won't. Darkangel wore out her welcome long ago and seems to be trolling for a PPR.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Worse has been said here and allowed to stand.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[CBGLuthier]

79. When "go fuck yourself loser" is allowed to stand I know this place has jumped the shark.

The jury system is a fucking joke. obviously he got four of her followers because no proper decent DU member would ever think that go fuck yourself loser is something that should stand.

[Sheepshank]

119. Why... Not surprising since...

.....this little gem by a Bernie supporter was voted to "leave".

On second thought I take that big FUCK YOU back. I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's dog's cock. You have proven yourself to be utterly and irretrievably morally repugnant. You have stooped to depths that are lower than whale shit in the fucking Marianas trench. There's a lot of pressure down there for anyone with a shred of fucking decency but once your balls are shriveled to the obvious pinhead size it affects the brain and there's little left than to attempt to smear the shit on the walls when it didn't stick whilst you were flinging it

.

[DFW]

221. Was that for real?

THAT got four or more votes to leave standing? I don't care who it was from. If THAT was voted to "leave alone," then my decision not to take part in the jury system is reaffirmed in steel-reinforced concrete.

[polly7]

219. Geez, I got a post hidden for putting it in short form.

Deservedly so, I admit.

Juries can be fickle here.

[PoliticalMalcontent]

84. It is truly pathetic that people can tell others to fuck off and not get a hide.

The commentariat is divided, but get ahold of yourselves, people.

Absolutely shameful.

People should have their jury responsibilities revoked if they're going to be applying 'the law' so unevenly. Stop acting like children.

Some people will vote in the GE regardless of nominee; others might not find certain candidates palatable. People are being ridiculous by abusing the jury system to drown out dissenting opinion though.

From what I have heard bans are handed out not because people choose not to support a Dem candidate in the GE, but rather because they trying to get others to follow their lead in not voting Dem.

In any event, let's find some damn sanity and civility, eh? Let's have DU be a place worth coming to.

[JEB]

44. I base my decision on issues.

Some candidates even within the Democratic Party fail to represent me on issues I care very deeply about. It is very difficult to support those candidates. I have at times in the past voted for the lesser evil and it leaves a very bad taste.

[darkangel218]

45. PM I just received from KMOD:

KMOD
I hope they do ban you,
And not because you don't support HRC,

but because you are one of the shittiest posters ever.

Enough said...

This was just 2 secs ago. Smh..

[delrem]

57. shit happens. Put the PMer on "block mail" ignore.

Then forget it.

You wrote a damn good OP.

[Sheepshank]

127. I agree with KMOD

Why not just have the balls to walk away?

How does this op fit with your DI comment linked below?

[Duckhunter935]

129. sunshine is a good disinfectant

I had to post some nasty mail messages from a person stalking me. Had to block his mail.

[Kali]

198. hell, you have sent worse

[William769]

209. KMOD

[polly7]

213. Right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7532361

[840high]

214. Put him/her on ignore

[Odin2005]

231. Wow, that is disgusting!

And they call US childish!

[Qutzupalotl]

48. I can't go there.

Maybe don't think of it as voting for a liar. Most politicians lie. Think of it as voting for a slightly less oppressive Supreme Court.

Yeah, that's all I got.

[rusty quoin]

50. I hope many of you change your minds after you cool off.

I back Bernie, but if he loses, I will back Hillary. I've had 30 years plus of voting, and one thing I've learned is that rich conservatives plan ahead and never give up. I learned this. It took me too long to learn it because I don't think like them.

Change takes a long time, and Hillary will give us good appointments for the Supreme Court.

She is so much better than anything the Republicans offer, so don't stay at home. Don't let anger win over reason. If Hillary wins the primaries, don't stay at home in the general.

[darkangel218]

53. Many here are tired of holding their nose.

It is as simple as that.

We have a candidate we can actually support. We don't have to back up the ws and the 1% s anymore.

[rusty quoin]

58. If you say so. If you have a better way, I'm all ears.

[delrem]

65. All through the cold war a certain "truth" was drilled into me,

which is that if the masses of people stay home at election rather than going out to vote, then it can be seen as a vote against the system itself, against "the regime". I say that this is a valid indicator. As a corollary I had it drilled into me that states that forced people to vote were by definition totalitarian.

"If you have a better way, I'm all ears".

Perhaps when there is no better way, declining to vote for any candidate, because all are reprehensible, is a valid choice.

[rusty quoin]

67. What is drilled into me is when people stay at home, conservatives win.

When people stay at home, the extremist conservative churchy people win.

The midterms teach us that. Democrats mostly vote in the general election for president. We are more than them.

I am like WTF to your response.

[delrem]

74. Goldman Sachs and Haliburton rule with an advocate for "choice",

Bush and Cheney and Kissinger and Kagan's PNAC wars rule with "choice",
or the very same rule without an advocate for "choice".

That's about it.

OK. Y'see what I'm getting at?

Hillary Clinton is an advocate AGAINST universal single payer health care. She says it isn't pragmatic, realistic, or in tune with the invisible hand of the marketplace. Awhile ago she wasn't. Or she said she wasn't. But at this point what can we believe about what she says? $140 million in take home fees *have* to make a difference of some kind.

If I willingly go along with such a lie, then I'll only prolong the lie.
Whatever nice feeling it might give me to go along with it isn't worth it.

So it isn't a big statement in its individual component, but I would say that sometimes it's worth it to give a big Fuck You raspberry to the liars.

[rusty quoin]

82. No. Because we have people like Bernie Sanders who want us to stay involved.

The guy has been fighting his whole adult life to make things better. You like him as I do. I guess you might be a modern day nihilist. I don't know what outcome you foresee.

I'll stick with Bernie's thinking and try to make things better within the system that exist. After all, the right wing twisted a good system. I think it's our job to get rid of them, not us.

[delrem]

85. Cough.

That has NOTHING to do with someone's refusal to vote for, say, Hillary Clinton, or Jeb Bush or John Kasich.

[jeff47]

175. Most of us live in states where our votes don't matter.

If Clinton is our nominee, she will lose my state. Badly. As a result, I'd get "the luxury" of a meaningless vote in the general election.

(Clinton has zero chance of overcoming the entrenched hatred by rural voters, and her "Nope!" campaign cannot get enough urban voters out to overcome that. Sanders or O'Malley have a very low chance, but probably won't campaign here to boost that because there are easier states to win to get to 270.)

[DFW]

223. What is this? Logic? Common sense?

Do you expect to get away with that on here?

[demosincebirth]

55. I'm not an admirer of Sanders but a supporter of Clinton. I'm not stupid, so I will vote for

Sanders if he gets the nomination rather than have one of the crazies in the WH.

[delrem]

60. That's OK.

In that case you have your choice. But what about if it's Hillary vs. Rubio or Kasich? Once the going gets into that "centrist" ground, it gets into a quagmire with quicksand traps and no way out.

[blue neen]

81. Right.

Hillary Clinton=Marco Rubio.

Prove it.

[TeamPooka]

61. Loser talk. Enjoy President Trump. That goes for any Bernie or Hillary fan that won't back

the eventual Democratic Party nominee.
I have a Bernie sticker on my car but if it's Hill then she gets my vote.
Trump could actually win California in 2016 the way Gov. Terminator did, twice
You people don't realize we are running a candidate against the most powerful force in the USA: Celebrity.
It will take every vote in every state.

[SheenaR]

63. I disagree

We are running against the most powerful force, but it is called candidates and a system which are owned by Wall Street and special interests. And because of the nutbaggery of the other side I have to just settle and vote against my own interests because I'm a registered Democrat? Guess a loser too

[TeamPooka]

167. Newbies here, like you, who agitate for others to not support the Democratic Party nominee

are not to be trusted.
You're a member here a week and talking shit like this so I'll just put you on Ignore.
And yes I guess you're a loser or you want the Party to lose.

[delrem]

69. Sanders can easily defeat the likes of Trump.

That fact has nothing whatever to do with possible "Clinton voters" who might "decide not to vote for the Democratic candidate".
That's the least of Sanders' worries.

[TeamPooka]

171. Said in the thread where the Bernie supporters are talking about not supporting HC.

[rusty quoin]

76. I didn't think about that enough.

The fact that Americans don't learn from mistakes is something you point out, at least I'm inferring. The people in California chose the Terminator from the movies, as Governor, to solve their problems and it was another disaster movie.

Americans mightl choose a celebrity for President, who has catch phrases like, "you're fired"
and "you'll love it..it will be the best policy ...you'll love it"

You have such a good point because celebrity here in America is more important than anything else.

[TeamPooka]

159. Yes it is. And anyone who doesn't realize it foolish and unaware. Remember, they didn't just

elect the Terminator for Gov out here, they RE-ELECTED the motherfucker when the state was in the shitter and they knew he sucked at his job.
This is not the year for Democrats to make a principled stand for their loser who could not win the nomination, ON EITHER SIDE of this fight!
If they do the Party will lose in Nov. period.
Bernie or Hillary (or O'Malley?) you need to show up and vote in Nov.
If you don't I don't want to hear that whiney "my candidate could have won BS" because you sat out the election.
Don't be a whiny loser under a Republican administration.

[pinebox]

112. Enjoy President Trump, eh? That's what Hillary will get us.

Bernie crosses the divide, Hillary doesn't. People will stay home if she's the nominee. Period. We need to elect the strongest candidate.

[TeamPooka]

161. Thanks for your straw man argument but that's not the debate point I made here right now. nt

[pinebox]

163. You mean my reality?

The polls all back up what I said, Bernie gets the indy vote by large margins. It's important we nominate the strongest candidate. Correct? Correct.

[TeamPooka]

169. No. It's important that we GOTV. That's how we ensure victory. Not staying home because we're bitter

[pinebox]

172. It won't work

when so many people aren't represented by a 1% corporate Dem. Bernie brings a coalition. Hillary brings only Dems. That is a loss in a GE.

[TeamPooka]

173. You've got blinders on. Enjoy President Trump. Maybe then you'll learn, after he destroys America.nt

[pinebox]

179. Sure after they nominate Hillary then it will be Trump.

I have blinders on? Or is it you don't read?

We can start here http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/22/1395700/-Republicans-for-Bernie-Sanders
Do you think those Republicans will vote for Hillary? Not a chance in hell.

Millennials? The largest age group? Nope. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/06/hillary_misses_mark_with_millennials_127995.html

Hillary's enthusiasm and favorability? Nope. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

As I said, we need the strongest candidate. Bernie.

[TeamPooka]

185. "Electablity" isn't the debate point I made here but your straw man argument is very GOP.

They don't like to address the actual point being discussed either.
GOTV

[pinebox]

188. My strawman?

You keep saying that but yet you've not debunked anything which I said.
I win.

Many people who support Bernie aren't interested in supporting Hillary. Fact. I guess you missed what Manny posted.

[TeamPooka]

189. Still loser talk. Either from Bernie or Hillary supporters. facts is facts. GOTV is the only thing!

[pinebox]

193. "Loser talk"

As opposed to not understanding that millions are NOT interested in supporting Hillary? You scream GOTV but you don't understand you can't drag someone to a polling place in order to vote for Hillary and millions have absolutely ZERO interest in supporting her. NONE.

[TeamPooka]

196. You are Karl Rove's wet dream. Democratic Party voters staying home on election day is what he

beats off to in his fantasies.

[newfie11]

64. Same here

I won't stay home if Hillary wins the primary.
I will write Bernies name in.
I'm almost 70 and remember how different this country used to be. We need Bernie!

[peacebird]

134. Me too!

[840high]

216. That's what I'll do. I'm older

than you and will not let this chance to change things slip by.

[LonePirate]

68. Looks like several DUers want a Republican Party victory in November

[randys1]

141. Some actually are here doing a job for Karl Rove, not sure how many, but count on it.

[Eko]

73. More of

"We had to destroy the village to save it" morons. Violates TOS, ban em.

[JohnnyRingo]

75. Take your toys and go home.

Like a spoiled child who upsets the game board when they don't win.

I'll fully and proudly support whoever wins the nomination. That doesn't make me special, it makes me a Democrat.

[merrily]

77. Dark Angel, your vote is your business. You don't do anyone but the McCarthyites any favors

by inviting hides and/or bans.

[Eko]

80. You are one of the worst types of fanatics

you either you get what you want or the world can burn for all you care. Compromise? nope. you would risk a pres Trump before you break your moral high ground. "Victory or death!!!" And that is exactly what you would be enabling. You think the ACA is going to hold up under a trump presidency let alone expand it? What about muslims? Will there be special camps for them? And you would rather have that than Hillary?

[californiabernin]

83. As a Bernie Sanders supporter, your logic eludes me.

You say you will never vote for Clinton in a general election. By doing that you would put a Republican in the White House. Perhaps even a fascist.

I wish Clinton and Sanders supporters would have more respect for one another on a forum like this. Perhaps that is simply not possible, politics being what it is. I wish most Democrats could rise above it though. I wish most people who believed in science, a higher minimum wage, more equal access to education, and a better health care system could rise above it.

It boils down to this, mostly:

Sanders supporters believe the best candidate is one who can lead a revolution, inspiring millions of people to rise up and VOTE. It is an idealistic belief, but Clinton supporters....do not confuse idealism with naivety. The Sanders campaign is not about plans. There are plans aplenty, everywhere. It's about big ideas. The details can only come with the actual work of government, but now, here and now, building the movement, it's the big ideas that matter. Thus the Sanders ad "America" with no words but a song and the American people. Clinton supporter may say such an approach lacks substance, but do not confuse substance with detailed policy proposals. Sanders knows single payer will not pass anytime soon. Do you really think as president he would not work for what is possible? Do you really think anyone but the American people can make the what is now impossible someday possible? We have to start somewhere, and for Sanders it starts not with compromise (that can wait) but with getting enough people to rise up and send a message to the corporate/governmental complex that cannot be ignored. That's when WE THE PEOPLE get the upper hand in the negotiation. The power in America has always been with the people, but they have to believe they still have it. They do.

I understand that Clinton is more experienced on the world stage, and has more detailed plans at this point. I get why many think Sanders is unelectable. The stakes are very high. But both Sanders and Clinton supporters believe the stakes are very high. Both are worried, very worried, about the future of America. In the end though, we both believe the same things (the important things, anyway)...we just differ on how and how fast we believe we can get there.

Clinton supporters are not sell-outs, and Sanders supporters are not naive revolutionaries leading the Democratic Party to the edge of the abyss. Both have something to say, and both have a reasonable point of view. The disagreement is what primaries are supposed to be about.

But can we try and be just a little less nasty towards each other than, oh I don't know, the Donald is to everyone he doesn't agree with? Can't we try and rise up above the kind of political dialogue that is going on all over the media, maybe just an its-bitsy bit?

We call ourselves "progressives." Seems to me we can make a lot more progress by respecting each other.

[PADemD]

90. Welcome to DU

[randys1]

143. What you said

welcome

[jeff47]

184. The flaw in your analysis is we don't have popular vote elections for president.

You say you will never vote for Clinton in a general election. By doing that you would put a Republican in the White House. Perhaps even a fascist.

The vast majority of us live in states that will give their electoral votes to the Democrat or Republican no matter how we vote.

For example, I live in NC. Clinton will lose the general election here. Obama won here in 2008 because "Hope and change" got enough urban voters out to overcome rural voters. Obama lost here in 2012 because he governed as a centrist, tarnishing "Hope and change" enough to reduce urban turnout.

The foaming-at-the-mouth rage towards Clinton from rural voters will ensure every. single. one. votes against Clinton. Even if the Republican promises to execute everyone in the state. And her "Nope!" campaign theme can not possibly get enough urban voters to overcome that. The final nail in the coffin is there are easier states to win in order to get to 270, so she will not make a serious effort to overcome these problems.

As a result, if Clinton is the nominee, I have "the luxury" of a meaningless vote.

(Sanders or O'Malley have a slim chance - those rural voters are pissed, and they might be able to redirect their anger towards the Republicans. Plus Sanders would be far better able to tap into the "Hope and change" that spawned Moral Mondays. But there's still easier states to win to get to 270, so neither of them is likely to fight here)

[rpannier]

86. Should she get the nomination

and you don't vote for her and the republican wins
I hope you will have the decency not to come here and bemoan and bash the republican president and his policies, since you seemed to be okay with him being elected.

** I use him since it's unlikely that carly will get it**

[coyote]

89. If a republican wins, it's because the Democrat party

Nominated a shitty candidate. As I see it, Hillary is a shitty candidate. I am with the OP, I won't vote for her either just because she has a (D) after her name, and a questionable one at that. Like I said before, and I will say it agin, I don't vote for people that work against my best interest and I have no doubt Hillary will.

[rpannier]

91. That's fine

Just please don't come here and tell us how upset you are at the inane policies of the republican president

I would also add, the winner will be the person voted in by the majority of Democrats who voted
It's how a Democracy works
My guess is, and I don't know for sure, that you'd likely by upset if HRC supporters said they refused to vote fr Bernie if he got the nomination
I'm kind of hoping if her supporters make that same comment you won't come on and castigate them for refusing to vote for the person they didn't support

It is fair play after all.

I'm voting for Sanders in the primary and the nominee of the party in the GE. Hoping it's Sanders. 2nd choice O' Malley. But am voting for the nominee. Eight years of Dumbya and 8 years of Reagan was too much

[JonLeibowitz]

135. Not a single Hillary supporter spoke against Rendell for floating not backing the nominee.

This was an OP that sat on the 'Greatest' page for most of yesterday and there was not a one. I don't think any great moral authority lies with those on this board.

[Recursion]

109. "The Democrat party"?

Hmm...

[coyote]

190. Oh my god,

he said Democrat instead of democratic...burn him!!!

[mcar]

117. "Democrat" party?

[coyote]

192. Yes I know,

Dropping off that 'ic' in the end really winds people up.

[DFW]

224. Oh, we're used to it by now.

All Republican visitors to DU use it.

[zappaman]

126. It's the "Democratic" party, not the "Democrat" party.

Oops.

[coyote]

199. You got me.

[pansypoo53219]

92. HEY!, i had to vote for DUKAKIS! bloody LURCH!! FUCKING JOE LIEBERFUCKENPUTZ! if i have to,

i will vote in the end for hillary, cause i am NOT giving a republikkkan my vote!!!

[quickesst]

93. Haha....

If some Bernie supporters were told by their mommies to go clean their rooms, they would claim they were being bullied.


The act of bullying has to be accompanied by a threat. So far the only threats that I have seen are the non-existent ones coming from the minds of Bernie's supporters.

[Splinter Cell]

94. K + R!

[sufrommich]

95. So many DU PUMAs.

Oh the irony.

[seabeyond]

178. PUMA's have become the Sanders of 2016. Nt.

[NCTraveler]

96. I will.

Twice.

[tammywammy]

97. Why are you even on DU?

http://www.discussionist.com/102218512

[SidDithers]

122. Because the time-out at DI lasts until mid-March...

Sid

[seabeyond]

180. Lol. Bummer. Nt.

[polly7]

183. Darn good thing you keep such an eye on members here and there!

[Sheepshank]

136. OMG. That is totally hillarious

What a hypocrit the OP appears to be.

[polly7]

146. Because she feels like it and is a member who feels like discussing. Why is anyone here? nt.

[tammywammy]

197. I'm just curious when a member says "Fuck DU" why they come back.

[polly7]

200. Lots of members here have said it.

I guess people get angry and say things in haste. Happens all the time, I don't find it curious at all.

Some, though, even start websites to smear DU and its members yet still post here as if that's no big deal, do you find that curious?

[tammywammy]

211. Yes, I do

If I decided I didn't like DU for whatever reason, I would stop coming here. I have no desire to bad mouth posters or the website anywhere else. I'm sure everyone has another poster they don't care for, but that's life there's always someone I don't care for.

If I ever got to the point that I was saying "fuck DU" or calling it a cesspool, I'd leave.

[polly7]

215. I find that level of what to me seems like real hatred curious also - vile, horrible insults

'made secretly' against this place and its members yet coming back here expecting respect - beyond curious, actually.


An individual stating something in anger right out in front on either DU site much more worthy of understanding, imho. We all have our moments, at least she doesn't hide hers knowing those she's railing against won't be able to respond to them.

[MineralMan]

98. OK. Thanks for letting us know. nt

[Agschmid]

100. That's fine, it's your vote.

[BlueMTexpat]

101. I trash threads like this.

Until January 2016, I never once trashed a DU thread.

Shame on you. And buh-bye. Enjoy your echo chamber.

[Onlooker]

102. The only liberals who I could understand opposing Hillary are ...

middle class, straight, white, male, with decent jobs and supportive families, since they won't be affected no matter who wins. Gays, women, people of color, Muslims, etc. have a clear interest, I think in voting for Sanders, but if he loses, they also have a clear interest in voting for Hillary.

[cherokeeprogressive]

103. I applaud your conviction, and stand with you.

[Kali]

212. conviction?

would you vote for Rand Paul or maybe Trump over Clinton? because that is what the OP has said.

I REALLY want Bernie to take this too, but I sure as hell will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is over ANY repuke.

[in_cog_ni_to]

106. I admire people with principles.

Millennials will never vote for HRH either.

She will never be POTUS.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Bobbie Jo]

107. Ok, then don't.

BFD

Drama.

[polly7]

108. Hey, darkangel!

Please don't.

From what I've read recently, she's trying her hardest to advance the 7 countries in 5 years thing, even though the whole world sees how well it's worked out so far. A warmonger is a warmonger, gender makes no exceptions. Thatcher, Albright ..... Clinton.

[unapatriciated]

110. There are many Sanders supporters, like myself

who will not stay home, nor advocate others to do so. We will vote for whomever wins the nomination.
I personally think Sanders will win but if he doesn't I will not allow the WH to go to Trump.

If he should lose I would continue to push for his policies, but no way will I stay home.

[HassleCat]

113. The majority?

I don't like her very much, either, but I will vote for her if she gets the nomination.

[Politicub]

115. Okay - thanks for sharing

No one cares.

[tularetom]

128. Obviously you cared enough to respond

And over 100 other posters care, many of whom seem to agree with the OP.

What nobody seems to care about, is your opinion.

[Politicub]

147. Taking a couple of minutes to type something isn't "caring"

Acknowledging, maybe. But caring, not so much.

It's a waste of time to try and convert those whose minds are closed. Time is better spent on those people who truly open to alternate points of view and debate. But since talk is cheap and fast on the internet, responding to a post is more of a whim than anything.

I find it funny that engaging about a topic translates to caring for some. It's a logical fallacy to assume talking about something means you're concerned about it, by the way.

[tularetom]

150. You failed to point out that I cared enough to respond to your post

Which indicates to me that you aren't an especially perspicacious individual.

Otherwise you would have seen the irony.

[Politicub]

156. Perspicacious - had to look that one up

"having keen mental perception and understanding; discerning" or "having keen vision"

My vision is pretty good, so I think I am perspicacious using that definition. Keen mental perception and understanding? Depends on the topic, I suppose.

What are we talking about again?

On edit - wanted to thank you for the opportunity to learn a new word.

[Sheepshank]

118. Oh god...what a pretend swan song. Oh the drama

Back of the hand on the forehead...."go ahead and ban me" I'd like to hope you get your wish, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Politicub]

174. Methinks the OP has gotten the vapors

Get the fainting couch ready

[SidDithers]

121. O. K. ...nt

Sid

[m-lekktor]

124. ooooh, the loyalists aren't pleased with you! I am surprised you only got one unhinged PM!nt

[pinebox]

125. What a thread this is...

besides the amount of stupid involved in some of these replies. Jeez people chill out!

Let me see if I can throw some logic into this. Wish me luck.

What Darkangel said, I see on a daily basis on my twitter. A lot actually. People dislike Hillary, plain and simple and of course that dislike, at least among liberals, IMHO is justified. She's been marred in controversy for decades. Yes, some is RW crap but some is real too. This is what people aren't getting, the fact that everybody knows who Hillary is and they already have their minds made up if they like or dislike her and have for a very long, generally.

This makes her a weak candidate in the minds of many. She isn't attracting hardly any new voters and that can be seen in the huge gap of how many millennial voters Bernie has compared to her. Bernie is literally making people switch parties in order to caucus for him. I switched my Indy-Green affiliation in order to caucus for Bernie. On my twitter timeline, I have many who have done done the exact same thing. Republican, Green, Indy, even Libertarians and of course there are Dems.

Think about it. Hillary has a huge enthusiasm problem and a self image problem. She does. It's been written about a million times. That will never change. Ever.

I post this on a daily basis on my timeline. It says it all.

[Duckhunter935]

130. same here

My vote does not matter in the presidential ticket anyway. OK will not go democratic for that race.

[randys1]

131. Bernie will be disappointed, because he will need Hillary in the WH if it cant be him, to have ANY

chance of EVER getting ANYTHING done that you seem to want.

sigh


So he will have to work just that much harder.

I will have to work just that much harder finding someone to replace your vote.

I wish we had a "sigh" emoticon here

[Empowerer]

140. OK.

[vi5]

145. I haven't decided anything yet....

But I am in my late 40's and have voted for, campaigned for, and donated to every single Democrat in every single election, big or small, every single year I've been able to vote since I was 18.

And having my only Democratic party choice be Hillary Clinton will test me to my very core. Even if I hold my nose, there's no way she or the DNC are getting a minute of my time, a penny of my money, or even a word of my support when talk of the election comes up.

If the Democratic party wants to go down that road even further than we already have then they do so without anything more than the minimum I'm compelled to do, which is vote. And even then I can only imagine how horrible her general election campaign will be and how much further that will push me away than she already has.

[B Calm]

154. I support Bernie, but if Hillary gets the nomination I WILL VOTE FOR HER! You should too!

[Politicub]

177. Likewise -- if Bernie gets the nom, he has my vote

No questions asked. Both Hillary and Bernie have strengths. O'Malley, too, but he doesn't seem to be catching on.

[brooklynite]

168. I'll say goodby in advance then.

[darkangel218]

238. Don't be so sure about that.

I'm pretty confident in Bernie

[seabeyond]

176. No one cares.

[polly7]

204. It seems like quite a few here do care.

[RBInMaine]

181. Translation: Wild-Eyed Tea-Left Fringe Rant That Helps Donald Trump

[Fawke Em]

210. Then stop supporting Trump Lite.

Vote for the man with real Democratic principles and not the woman who supports GOP-like solutions in foreign policy and economics.

[Reter]

186. Pretty sure she's going to be indicted soon

She's not getting the nomination if that happens.

[workinclasszero]

187. Herr Trump appreciates all you are doing to ensure his election to Führer of Amerika

OTOH millions and millions of hardworking latino immigrants will curse you and the so-called leftist democratic movement that sat home on election day or wrote in some loser and got a fascist like Trump elected so he can round up their grandmas and children!

Toodles!!!

[Faux pas]

202. Kickin'

[Juicy_Bellows]

222. You're alright with me!

Kick!

[seaglass]

225. Some people seem to be operating under a misunderstanding of the TOS, it applies NOW.

Perhaps you're not convincing enough OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598967

Based on the Terms of Service, we have grounds to ban anyone who states that they do not intend to vote for the Democratic nominee in any general election. There is a popular misconception that the "Vote for Democrats" rule only applies after a nominee has been chosen, but that is not correct. The use of the term "never" is intentional in the section you quoted above.

...

Unfortunately, there are some people here who who say they won't support the nominee and actually won't. As we explained above, our feeling is that we want to give people the benefit of the doubt. But if you convince us that you actually mean it and you really aren't going to support the nominee, then we're going to treat you like you actually mean it.

[Metric System]

227. Another Sanders supporter stating that s/he won't vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. 50 recs!

[redstatebluegirl]

228. I will vote for the nominee no matter who the party nominates.

I am so terrified of what will happen to the country, especially the ramifications on the Supreme Court that I can't imagine not voting or voting, God forbid for a Republican or Bloomberg. I thought I had made up my mind on who I will vote for in the primary but I have to admit I haven't. I am happy we have three strong candidates, all of whom are electable. The other party can't come up with one out of the 17 or so they started with.

My vote doesn't count for much anyway since we live in Oklahoma which will either go Trump or Cruz. The tone he is frightening isn't it?

[seaglass]

233. I cannot believe how many have forgotten what it was like to live under 8 yrs of Bush.

It's sickening.

[KittyWampus]

229. You are actually a tiny minority. And since you won't vote for the nominee

why should anyone really give a crap what you say?

[Andy823]

243. Exactly!

Those who keep saying they will NOT vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination are NOT the majority here. Hell most of them probably aren't even democrats, and only come here to cause problems and stir things up.

What I can't understand is why are are even her if they feel this way? I mean all they do is trash and bash anyone but their candidate, so why not find a place with like minded people and stay there? Of course if their only goal is to cause trouble, well then I can understand why the post here.

[onenote]

230. Fundamental values

The OP has said that w/he won't compromise his/her "fundamental values".

Personally, I have a pretty long list of fundamental values. They include:

Gender equality
Sexual orientation equality
Racial equality
Freedom of speech and religion
Right to vote
Reduction of corporate influence in elections
Avoidance of military intervention
Protection of the environment/addressing climate change.
Support for increasing the minimum wage.
Support for unions

That's not an exclusive list, but it covers a fair amount of the territory for me.

I support Bernie because I think he's the best candidate on those "fundamental" issues.

But if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I will support and urge others to support Clinton.

Because I won't compromise my fundamental values by not doing everything I can to ensure that a Republican, who presents an existential threat to each of those values, doesn't get elected.

Frankly, anyone who says they won't compromise their values by voting for Clinton (if a Sanders supporter) or for Sanders (if a Clinton supporter) is signaling that they will not hesitate to compromise those values by not defending them against an imminent threat.

[kelly1mm]

235. I don't think I can vote for someone who lies when it makes no sense to. I just can't

for the life of me understand why HRC lied about being under sniper fire when she landed in Bosnia. She was with her daughter and was filmed getting flowers for gosh sakes.

[darkangel218]

244. +1

[senz]

236. I feel the absence of Manny and L0oniX every time I visit DU.

So there's that, the sense of loss shared by Bernie supporters and perhaps others. Then there's the fact that what we say here ripples out beyond this popular website and finds its way into the public discourse during a very important primary. For this, we need every single good, strong voice we can get.

So please, darkangel, and all Bernie supporters, do not ask for a banning. You can say everything you need to say without leaving us.

Please stay.

[darkangel218]

237. I'm not going anywhere.

We don't have a nominee yet.

[darkangel218]

240. I could care less for your silly, baseless name calling.

This is exactly the "bullying" I was referring to in my OP.

Welcome to ignore.