2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMr. Romney - On Behalf of ER Doctors and Nurses Everywhere...
Last edited Mon Sep 24, 2012, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)
I'd just like to tell you, stop now. Enough is enough. Of all the asinine, morally objectionable, ethically wrong-headed and just downright IGNORANT statements you have made (just in the past week!), this one takes the cake.
The ER is not designed for Universal Care. It is designed for life-threatening emergencies. And yes, I know you were speaking of a "heart attack", but good God man, don't you realize people already use the ER for primary care? Don't you realize that's why people die in ERs, why people die every day, why the doctors and nurses are so overworked they can barely take care of the hordes of UNINSURED sick people streaming through the door as it is?
Do you think ER care is free? Have you ever seen an ER bill? Do you know how many people have filed bankruptcy over an ER bill and/or uninsured hospital stay? How out-of-touch with reality are you, really?
Now you tell us, "this is how we take care of our uninsured"? Even when you were Governor, you realized what a burden this put on the health care system. How much it raised costs on EVERYBODY, on the state, on the facilities. In the name of all that is right and good, is there nothing you won't say to get elected? Is there no end to your utter stupidity?
If I sound angry, I am. Because I *am* an ER nurse. I know how wrong you are...and so do you.
Videos At Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/09/24/romney-calls-emergency-room-a-health-care-option-for-uninsured/
Romney Now: In his interview with CBS News 60 Minutes that aired Sunday night, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney pointed to emergency rooms as a form of health care for people without insurance.
Well, we do provide care for people who dont have insurance, Romney told interviewer Scott Pelley. If someone has a heart attack, they dont sit in their apartment and and die. We pick them up in an ambulance, and take them to the hospital, and give them care. And different states have different ways of providing for that care.
Romney Then: But Romneys position is a shift from 2010, when he told MSNBC that part of the impetus for the Massachusetts health-care law was to keep people out of the ER.
It doesnt make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, he said.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)K Gardner
(14,933 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)It's not a gaffe. It's what he thinks, but they'll spin it as something "inelegant."
SDjack
(1,448 posts)K Gardner
(14,933 posts)Israel comment !! And he was out on 60 Minutes last night flacking Obama on Foreign Policy??
The media wants a close race. They're not pushing the stuff that could END his campaign here and now.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)and Obama's "weakness". They want to start WWIII.
catbyte
(34,381 posts)It's beginning to look like a lopsided Little League game where the umpire calls it in order to not humiliate the kids on the losing team or a runner getting lapped. It's cringe-worthy, at the very least.
BTW, I was just kidding about moving up the election. Romney/Ryan deserve every bit of the scorn, laughs, and derision currently being heaped upon them.
Mom to Taz, Nigel, and baby sister Sammy, members of Dogs Against Romney, Cat Division
"Dogs Arent Luggage--HISS!
and
THANK YOU, DU, FOR SAVING OUR HOMEPURR!
BTW, please keep a good thought today for my little Sammy--she's getting spayed today. Actually, I thought Sammy was a little boy until the vet tech upended him...er...her today and had a really good look. She thought Sammy was a he at first too. Whoopsie!!
Freddie
(9,265 posts)She's a tortie and we adopted her on Mischief Night, so she needed a witch's name. Best of luck with the surgery!
cyclezealot
(4,802 posts)He just might roll down his airplane's window at 36,000 feet and stick his head out in order to feed the birds..
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)ewagner
(18,964 posts)Was appalled when I showed her Romney's remarks this morning.
"Is he really that stupid?" she asked.
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)even worse than "w" in my opinion.
Mr.Bill
(24,284 posts)Romney is far worse. He is a sociopath.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)He is a sociopath who is also brain damaged. They are actually quite the two peas in a pod.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)exactly.
AnneD
(15,774 posts)simultaneously did this just before they did this
We don't need universal care when we have universal reaction.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Which led to health care reform there.
He is quite simply, a man of no real core beliefs and he shifts like the wind. This is what W. would have said. Oh Mittens, no matter how hard he tries the right wing will never really love him.
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)maxsolomon
(33,331 posts)He CAN'T say it, because he's been teapartied into an ideological corner. Now he has to contort himself to make a State's Rights argument against his own plan. If he moves left, he loses his base. If he moves right he loses the election. He has to sit in the middle, mouth platitudes, and hope that PAC money & voter suppression do the trick.
Moosepoop
(1,920 posts)He doesn't understand how it works at all -- and apparently didn't even then.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)It's "beneath" him.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I'm getting to the point that I can't even rant...idiot seems to answer it all.
Mittens and Coupon Care Man = McCain and Palin of 2012!
AnnaLee
(1,039 posts)I guess the best triage for a child with a high fever depends on latitude and longitude (or astrology).
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)health care is a universal issue. It requires a universal solution!
It is getting extremely tiresome to listen to his 'one size fits all' solution to any issue he deems too hard to address - 'Let the states decide'.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)barbtries
(28,793 posts)that he would prefer to close ERs to the uninsured and just let the people die. whatever would make them think they're ENTITLED to food, shelter, health care, you name it?
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)"Let them die"...when asked what to do about the uninsured?
barbtries
(28,793 posts)the meanness. it just hurts me.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)A few months ago I got a bad bladder infection that spread into my kidneys. My fever was over 101 degrees for almost 24hours. Unfortunately it was a Saturday night when this happened and my doctor said that I needed to go to the emergency room. Drinking cranberry juice and taking pain killers wasn't doing the trick else i would have waited it out until Monday.
That bill was $2100 for the hospital and the doctor.
Earlier in the year I had another similiar bladder infection (i get them alot) and my visit to the doctor was around $107.
Fortunately for me I have health insurance although the ER visit I Had to pay a $1500 deductible first.
But I cannot imagine what a family of 4 without health insurance would survive with a medical plan that says 'Just use the ER for health issues'
Really?
Same procedure, same treatment yet $2100 (ER) vs. $107 (regular dr visit).
Geez Mitt, use some *#%ing common sense
ER for common issues is just a lack of common sense. It's one thing in the case of a high fever and weekend hours but everyday issues we should have affordable doctor visits for ALL families!
EDIT NOTE: my final cost for the doctor visit after insurance was $6.14
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Thank you
elias7
(3,998 posts)Pyelonephritis (kidney infection) is a much more serious problem than a bladder infection. I'd say about half of the people with pyelonephritis get admitted, and the other half will get IV antibiotics and close follow up. They may get an abdominal/pelvic CT to confirm diagnosis and rule out tubo-ovarian abscess, renal abscess, etc., and will likely get bloodwork and blood cultures.
For a simple UTI, on the other hand, doesn't cause fever or other systemic symptoms, and usually requires only a simple urine test (not always necessary), and an Rx for oral antibiotics. Simple case for a PCP. Pyelonephritis, not so simple.
Sorry, but you're comparing apples and oranges here.
Glad you're well, though...
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)The problem was it was the weekend and didn't have much option.
elias7
(3,998 posts)I'm an ER doc and in my experience, a complicated UTI is typically sent down from the PCP office to the ED, as it is a different animal than a simple UTI. It requires a bit of a workup, and often results in admission to the hospital--- women in their 20's and 30's. Urinary symptoms that have progressed to flank pain, nausea/vomiting, fever, malaise.... That's no bladder infection, that's a kidney infection until proven otherwise. That requires bloodwork, cultures, imaging. No simple $6 urine test and a prescription for bactrim for a complicated UTI.
I would guess that if you had urinary symptoms for a day or two and came to the ER with just those complaints, your charge would have been substantially less. You don't always even need a urinalysis/culture, though it is advisable in case of treatment failure.
yends21012
(228 posts)This is what he thinks he does:
This is how he actually comes across: or or
This is what is happening to my brain everytime he speaks: and
renate
(13,776 posts)That was so funny!
Priceless!!!
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)Akoto
(4,266 posts)It turned out to not be an emergency situation. They were able to give her medication and send her home.
She'll be making payments on the bill for the next five years.
It's fucking idiotic to suggest that the ER is a viable means of treating the uninsured, for the patients or for the ER itself. He knows this, too. He overhauled the system in Mass to avoid it.
Stuff like this makes me so very grateful to have Medicaid, even if I only receive it due to disabling chronic pain, but I've only had it for a few years. I remember what it was like to go without for most of my life. I'd stick with Obamacare.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)and I had insurance. But a rash of other bills for repairs on my house & car had drained most of my savings and my health care spending plan only covered half of what I owed. However I do expect to have it paid off by the end of the year.
nolabear
(41,960 posts)SDjack
(1,448 posts)and instead he wants them to "mooch" off the ERs, so the public can pay 1000x the cost of general health care.
goclark
(30,404 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:55 PM - Edit history (1)
He just calls his Primary Dr. and Dr. meets him ( or family member) at the most exclusive hospital in the town.
The Ambulance is probably at his door before he/family member finishes the call.
He is quickly wheeled in and given his private room/suite of rooms so that his family can stay if they would like to remain with their beloved.
Always top nurse(s)/ nurse to take care of everything. Never have to press the button again and again or look for anyone to assist the patient.
I'm sure the states/islands of his Primary Residence(s) also have received huge donations from the Rmoney family and they may have their Private Wing etc.
He doesn't have a clue how the real world operates.
My mother was in a fancy hospital a few years ago, the regular rooms on that floor were filled so they gave her the "executive room....." The difference was amazing!
Right next to the nurses station- press the button they were there!
The bed was like a Sleep Number bed-- just push the button.
New flowers each day.
Food delivered for her and for me/her friend/family while visiting.
- I/We received the ' Special Guest Menu" that looked like a 5 Star Dining Experience.
Mom had Memory problems so if she even attempted to get out of the bed- they got a "beep , beep" and staff appeared immediately.
Magnificent view of the city - the works!
Poor Mitt..... he has a Silver Spoon in his pocket.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)which isn't very many, and including the one I currently work in, only have regular rooms. Some are private, meaning one bed, others are semi-private meaning two beds. The ICU rooms are all one bed, but the open up to the central nurse's station.
goclark
(30,404 posts)Cedars is the "Hospital for the Stars."
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)My brother worked there as a respiratory therapist many years ago.
goclark
(30,404 posts)Even the regular rooms are lovely.
I've had two stays....I also love the ability to have only Cedars Drs.
All your records can be shared/ the patient does not have to be the messanger..like Kaiser hospital.
mikki35
(111 posts)Unbelievable. After YEARS and years of actually being able to SEE the effect on ERs across the country of people forced to use them as primary care - he has the utter gall to say this stuff. He knows it already, but spouts the party line on national TV where literally MILLIONS of people know he is lying his ass off. After working as an ER nurse for years, I know.
What exactly do you SAY do the 20-something woman who shows up in an ambulance with her 2 kids for treatment because all 3 were infested with lice? She had no car. She had no insurance. She had no money. She calls an ambulance and lies about stomach pain to hitch a ride to the ER. Years ago? We were human then - we would have given her the lice treatment meds and allowed her to use a shower to delouse. Now? There are about a million different rules in place and we are so busy no one has time to deal with stupidity and/or desperation on this level. She gets a cursory check that confirms the diagnosis. She is then simply told, "you have lice. Your children have lice. Go to the drugstore and buy this. Sanitize the bedding, furniture, and carpets (because it was real obvious they'd been there a while). Have a nice day." She has no way to get home. No money to buy the lice treatment. This is reality. This shit HAPPENS.
The ambulance guys? In the past, they did freebie transports now and then because they're nice guys. Now? They can't do freebies anymore for anyone. Besides, they're mega-pissed because they have to disinfect an ambulance and themselves. No help there. Who amongst the staff is going to offer her a ride home? We can't. Prohibited from doing so. Even if someone wanted to flaunt this, there's still the little issue of having a car full of people crawling with lice.
This is what happens when there are literally millions of people who cannot afford even the basics. These are some of the 47% who are living such 'entitled' lives. It is a shameful disgrace that shit like this happens in the 'richest nation on earth.' The title galls the hell out of me - because its only 'rich' to the truly 'entitled' ones, like the one wearing the big 'R' running for President.
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and I know it's happening every day in the ER... I am glad to see medical professionals up in arms about this.
The Real Rethug Agenda = "The more "they" (the little people) suffer, the more WE'RE doing something RIGHT."
valerief
(53,235 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)He's a piece of shit.
thelarge
(23 posts)Is it just me, but it appears that when Mitt is asked a question he thinks is "beneath" him, or requires the truth, his nose and cheeks turn red!
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)The clueless dickhead should be chained to an ER bench for 24 hours.
But, then, I doubt it would make any impression on him.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)K Gardner
(14,933 posts)hue
(4,949 posts)One couldn't be born this dumb!!
Thanks for posting!!!
eyeofnewt
(146 posts)Guess who agrees with Romney? Who would have guessed?
Rush Limbaugh argues against health care reform because pretty much everyone gets medical treatment when they go to the emergency department.
Yes, everyone gets seen in the ER regardless of ability to pay - So a visit to the ER is "covered" then what does a patient do with new prescriptions he needs to fill? Or if he's admitted as an inpatient as a result of the ER visit? It's a vicious circle with bankruptcy sometimes the only option, even for those with health insurance.
And let's not mention care for long term chronic illnesses - so they can just make a quick jaunt to the local ER for a shot of insulin they can't afford to purchase?
Preventive medicine? Who needs it? Run on over to the ER and tell them you need a bone density scan because every female in your family has osteoporosis.
I'm just repeating what we all know - it's mind boggling and depressing, to say the least, that Mitt and his ilk repeat this garbage so nonthinkers will run with it.
OK, rant over.
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)NOTHING!!
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)post the video of Romney saying the EXACT OPPOSITE THING as Governor of MA.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)Mind you, A&E in the UK gets its fair share of people coming through the door for minor things. People end up in A&E because either a) an ambulance brought them there, b) a medical professional told them to go there, or c) they were clueless and went to A&E anyway. The d) no insurance option isn't there.
Urgent care in the USA IMO leaves something to be desired. Urgent care clinics are not there 24/7. The "out of hours physician" is likely to either say "call in the morning" or "go to ER" - there generally isn't an out-of-hours clinic, except maybe for Saturday AM. And a house call? Highly unlikely unless you find a service that does and pay out-of-pocket. I reckon nights and weekends ER is busy because of INSURED patients needing "urgent" but not "emergency" care and they have nowhere to go.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i have a history of heart problems so when i was having chest pain a nurse advised me to get to the ER. after being monitored over night they figured out it was chest wall pain. i applied for charity and the bill was paid.
i have declared bankruptcy several times in my life because of medical bills that were covered under for profit insurance.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)late at night and I've passed 10 on the pain threshold for both an intestinal illness and disease that sometimes flairs up. Only once in 10 yrs was I not admitted, they usually heavily medicate me and pump me with IV antibiotics. I have insurance. I went in one time at 1130 at night and was released at 8am they charged for 2 days.
Skarbrowe
(1,083 posts)A friend took me to the emergency room close to our house instead of the VA hospital where I get everything free. I got a huge bill for two hours of nothing. I let it ride for a little while and on the first call from a private bill collector I paid a lower payment because I paid in cash. I realized I was paying for people who can't pay or won't pay. Personally, since I had about that amount, I don't begrudge the hospital for charging me. Would have been nice to have had better care, but, what can ya do.
Thank god for the VA. I've told people around me that even if it doesn't look like I can make the 40 to 50 minutes to the VA hospital. just take me anyway and let nature take it's course.
GallopingGhost
(2,404 posts)absolutely decimates Romney on health care during the debates.
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)I'll never forget that one debate he had with Hillary with Georgie Boy Stephanopoulos.. gawd, that was awful!!
elias7
(3,998 posts)For example: Diabetics? Fuck'em. Just go to the ER when your sugar is too high or too low. Forget oral hypoglycemics, insulin, glucose monitoring, dietary teaching, regular ophthalmologist exams,etc. Just die a natural diabetic death decades earlier than you need to.
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)or all the other "little things" that could be taken care of OUT of the ER/hospital by exactly the steps you mention. It is infuriating.
A nutrition/wellness clinic in every neighborhood and we could have half of heart disease, HTN and diabetes under control.
Kteachums
(331 posts)The last thing an insurance company wants you to do is go to the ER for something that is not an emergency. My daughter had asthma and there were times her (at home) treatments wouldn't work. I had to take her. Even with insurance I am no stranger to bankrupcy!
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Uh, the answer to your question is "no".
My sister was also an ER nurse in a large city trauma hospital, and I have heard all the horror stories of how many people have no place else to go for treatment. It is a sin.
And Romney is an idiot. A really out of touch idiot.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)So he now spouts exactly the opposite so he can get that oh so coveted Tea Party vote.
Damn but those tea people are just as sweet and lovable as they can be, aren't they?
Romney sure thinks so.
Romney Warbucks will lick every every one of their dung covered asses until they shine like the top of the Chrysler building to get their vote.
valerief
(53,235 posts)magic59
(429 posts)I suggest that everyone who needs healthcare go through the emergency room. Run up a few 100,000 dollars or what ever it takes. Its unsecured debt, pay what you can afford each month, 5 dollars, 10, they have to take what they can get. 50 million people do that and the who healthcare system for everyone, insured or not will come crashing down. That is what it will take to get single payer.
If the fascists try to start up the debtors prisons then we will need to go mid-evil on the state agencies that enforce any fascist laws and it won't be pretty.
My Wife is an EMT and when I told her about this she pretty much said the same thing.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)rizlaplus
(159 posts).... and healthcare the more I am inclined to say either: "Pass me me the smelling salts, Alice" or "Pass me the sick-bag, Alice" !!
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)They had video tonight of Romney sometime in the past few years saying universal healthcare was a good idea.
*sigh*
EDIT: This isn't the one they showed but it's another one:
"I'm convinced every American deserves coverage."
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)They would be shocked at our health-care system --
NOT the technology behind it, which is the false argument
conservatives use to obscure the truth and blow smoke up
the ass of the public,
BUT the way it is DELIVERED.
AND what goes on "behind the curtain"
the waste, the misuse (tacitly intentional) of emergent care,
the lack of focus on pro-activity/preventative care,
the way hospitals are run like assembly lines at GM, the overload,
the LACK of choice and input of the consumer, the control that insurance
providers have, how increased productivity of nurses, et. al,
have been absorbing the rising costs and keeping down hospitals' losses...
on and on the list could go.
Single-payer, universal coverage could remedy all the problems
in one felled swoop, but we (the public) are too easily
manipulated by fear.
Health-care for profit is an inherent conflict of interest, and evil.
Most people without health-care want it, but can't afford it or
don't have it provided as an employee benefit.
Those who are irresponsible and have no conscience about
abusing the system aren't going to stop unless outside change is
brought to bear upon them (i.e. a change in the laws, like "Obamacare"
individual mandate)
There's a time-bomb about to explode soon:
the average age of nurses is well over 40, close to 50,
and the baby boomers are all going to be over 65 and
getting sick when those nurses have left the workforce.
What then -- Every man for himself ?
If they only knew!
King Klonopin RN
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)experience. Kudos.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)when I first heard what he had said I thought to myself, "I wonder what the folk working in the ER think of that." You pretty much confirmed what I was guessing.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)kitt6
(516 posts)Yes, he's too out there.