2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe NRA says Hillary and Martin are "enemies of freedom." But not Bernie.
The NRA prefers his gun positions.
http://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/6/30/five-biggest-enemies-of-freedom/
Five Biggest Enemies of Freedom
1. Barack Obama
While the President has just a year-and-a-half left to his presidency there is plenty of damage the President can still inflict on gun owners despite the stalemate with a pro-gun Congress. He tried to ban common rifle ammo with the stroke of a pen. Hes fighting to ban 4.2 million seniors on social security from owning guns. And hes promised to fight for gun control during his last year in office
2. Hillary Clinton
The anti-gun media has all but declared that Hillary Clinton will win the White House in 2016. And if she does, gun owners watch out. Hillary Clinton promised to crack down on gun owners and pass tough new gun laws. Check out what she said about taking on the NRA: We cannot let a minority of people, and thats what it is, it is a minority of people, hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people.
3. Martin OMalley
Should Clintons campaign crash, the candidate in second place is even worse: gun-grabber-in-chief, former Maryland Governor Martin OMalley. OMalley called for a ban on assault weapons and other gun control measures in the aftermath of the mass shooting in Charleston, South Carolina. As governor, OMalley ushered in sweeping anti-gun legislation that bans 45 specific types of commonly-owned semi-automatic firearms and requires future purchasers of handguns in Maryland to obtain a license to do so.
4.Michael Bloomberg
5. Charles Schumer
And they're also very upset about Hillary's idea that Barack Obama would make a fine Supreme Court Justice -- that's reason enough, they say, to vote for someone else.
______________________________
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160129/chief-justice-barack-obama
Heres perhaps the most compelling argument weve heard against Hillary Clintons bid for the White House.
Continuing her streak of adopting terrible (and perhaps planted) suggestions raised at campaign stops, Clinton on Tuesday called the appointment of Barack Obama to the U.S. Supreme Court a great idea, according to an article in the Washington Examiner. . . .
As a Supreme Court justice, he would have the power he has always craved as president to fundamentally transform America by issuing proclamations about the meaning and scope of the Constitution, all without pesky voters or members of Congress interfering with his plans.
Hillary Clinton has already stated that she believes the Supreme Court was wrong to declare that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. There is little doubt that Obama would pass Clintons Second Amendment litmus test if she is elected and has the chance to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court.
SNIP
ypsfonos
(144 posts)on one of them... I'll let you guess which one.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Thought I'm guessing the NRA is about to be rebranded as "progressive" champion.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Bernie is not even on their radar.
And, in Dec. of 2015, in their stupid head minds they were rating the top two Dems.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)That tells me what I need to know on the subject. I've also been involved in gun control debates long enough to be very familiar with the code phrases used.
I'll be voting against granting Death Inc a privileged place above all other multi-billion dollar corporate industries. I'll be voting against policies that result in 33k deaths a year, especially in urban communities like mine.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Bloomberg's in the top 3, but Bernie's not on the list.
He's not one of their enemies. Neither are any of the Repubs.
elleng
(131,106 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)That, my friend, is why the didn't bother with Bernie.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)why a D- is good.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... vote I'm caring about his rating when he's voting against the Brady bill and giving the gun corps undo immunity on anything.
wow...
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... her IWR vote, no one is perfect... even Sanders.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)That is not only a big ol' mea culpa by taking action to do something about it.
Hillary can apologize to the end of her days but that does not bring back the lives of a half a million human beings and counting. It does not rebuild their hospitals, and water systems, and their power grid. It does not restore their families and communities. It does not restore health and home to MILLIONS of Iraqis who have been displaced.
Hillary hasn't even come close to atone for massive death and destruction; illness and grief inflicted on millions.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)He had ratings as high as C. He should be at at F.
Bernie has yet to call his Corporate sponsor/surrogate "establishment" he, has no standing on this matter and tends to change his mind with regard to immunity based on simple politics and pandering. He is just a regular old politician who has never done anything outside of politics. Not, no long term job, no career...he's laid sideways in the public trough his entire adult life.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)It appears that PP and several other traditionally progressive groups were given the moniker...but NRA? It's all upside down and back to front with Bernie.
The reality is that he truly is an Independent and not a Democrat. He has his own values which sometimes aligns with Dems and sometimes aligns with Reps.
Cha
(297,655 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Starting with her cozy relationship with Wall St. and going from there.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)with that group of corporatists.
frylock
(34,825 posts)It was explained to you why they didn't include Sanders. They have O'Malley polling in second place for fuck's sake, but you're prepared to go to the mat with this bullshit talking point. This is just fucking pathetic.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)made a simple mistake. MOM is their 2nd most hated candidate for President, Bloomberg is their 3rd most hated.
Bernie's not on their enemies list.
They haven't written anything against Bernie similar to what they're written about Hillary. They view her -- and President Obama -- as much worse enemies.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Bernie Sanders: Gun Nut really doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of traction, but you are tenacious, I'll give you that.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Michael Bloomberg, and Charles Schumer.
But Bernie's not on their hate list.
And they didn't include him on this list, either:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/for-republicans-stop-hillary-campaign-begins-in-earnest/2015/04/11/bac6fce4-e05d-11e4-a500-1c5bb1d8ff6a_story.html
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Indeed they do.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Has he been paid millions for private speeches? Has he appointed members of the gun industry to his staff numerous times over the years? Has he switched his positions on issues seemingly overnight after talking to an industry member?
He occasionally votes in ways that might somehow favor them? Hardly "cozy."
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)....they helped him win.
I am on a handheld and reasearch is cumbersome, but very easy to find...crooks and liars has a great article on this...just google NRA helps Bernie win election.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)every year, and his goes up and down depending on what the issues were voted on that year.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)do we really want to revisit the past? he has a d- now.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)being on hillarys enemy list than i am about the ramblings of an extreme money grubbing organization.
this is a non issue.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)"boots on the ground" in Syria to bring an end to the turmoil there.
Iranians are Syrians worst enemies and don't belong in any force there -- no matter what Bernie says.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)just like iraq, and we see how well that worked out...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)But he HAS advocated that Iran be part of troops in Syria -- which would be a disaster.
(She did not vote for war in Iraq, as prosecuted by Bush. She and Kerry and Biden and others voted to give him the authority to enforce the UN resolutions in the event WMD's -- such as atomic weapons -- were found. WMDs were never found, but Bush ignored the restriction and went in anyway. The Rethugs controlled Congress by that March and there was nothing Dems could do to stop him, with or without an October IWR.)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/17/bernie-s-isis-strategy-is-a-disaster.html
Sen. Bernie Sanders wants Iran and Saudi Arabia to send ground troops into Syria as part of a coalition of Muslim nations to fight ISIS, an idea hes pressed multiple times as a strategy to fight Islamic extremism in the region.
Its the Middle East policy equivalent of a COEXIST bumper sticker. Sanderss proposal might sound promising to a foreign policy lightweightbut those with expertise in the area know that the concept is deeply troubling.
These comments indicate Sanders lack of serious engagement with foreign policy issues. While I appreciate his opposition to the Iraq War, perhaps if he was a little more engaged with that issue he would understand the problematic elements [of his proposal], said Evan Barrett, a political adviser to the Coalition for a Democratic Syria, a Syrian-American opposition umbrella group.
SNIP
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)on iraq, and tried to avoid the worst foreign policy blunder in recent history. so his foreign policy chops are fine with me.
hillary made the decision to support gwb either becuse she wanted war (which tells me she has a serious judgment problem) or because she thought it would help her politically in ny state (which tells me she has a serious ethics problem).
either way, i trust bernie much more to make appropriate foreign policy decisions.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Joe Biden. None of them wanted war. The IWR was meant as a way to force Iraq to give up the WMD's it supposedly had (because people like Colin Powell were lying to Congress). No WMD's were ever given up OR found, but Bush went to war anyway -- ignoring the conditions of the IWR.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)we have isis now because of their shortsightedness
anyone who thought w could be trusted with that authority does not have the judgement to be president.
and before you ask, yeah, that includes biden, not that he is going to jump in and "save" a party from bernie that does not need saving
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)make the same mistake is because his seat on the Armed Services Committee gave him access to classified information that showed him the Bush administration was lying. Unfortunately, he wasn't allowed to share this info with other Democrats.
But it is the Bush administration who bears the blame for lying, not the Dems who got lied into signing the IWR.
And as it turned out, the IWR didn't even matter. A few months later, with majorities in both Houses, Bush could have gotten an IWR without any votes from Democrats.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)some either saw through the lies or knew the war was a bad idea in any event.
she can't get a pass on this. huge mistake. she either believed bush, wanted war, or was voting to save her senate seat in the wake of 911. none are acceptable reasons imo
their neocon routine did not fool any of these people
senate
* Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
* Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
* Barbara Boxer (D-California)
* Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
* Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
* Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
* Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
* Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
* Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
* Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
* Bob Graham (D-Florida)
* Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
* Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
* Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
* Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
* Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
* Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
* Patty Murray (D-Washington)
* Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
* Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
* Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
* The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
* Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)
House
nays 133 ---
Abercrombie
Allen
Baca
Baird
Baldacci
Baldwin
Barrett
Becerra
Blumenauer
Bonior
Brady (PA)
Brown (FL)
Brown (OH)
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carson (IN)
Clay
Clayton
Clyburn
Condit
Conyers
Costello
Coyne
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank
Gonzalez
Gutierrez
Hastings (FL)
Hilliard
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Hostettler
Houghton
Inslee
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Leach
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moran (VA)
Morella
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson (CA)
Watt (NC)
Woolsey
Wu
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts).... sounds like Sanders is different side of same coin... he just picked different vices
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)then peaked ONE year to a C- and then declined to a D-
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The grades the gun lobby did have on file show Sanders has never exactly been in its favor, with one sort-of exception.
1992 D
1994 F
1996 F
1998 F
2000 F
2002 F
2004 D+
2006 C-
2012 D-
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/20/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-nra-report-card-d-minus-most-recent/
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
....However, the Nation and the other reports like it dont shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They dont explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if theres a consistency to Sanders positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernies position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.
Yet there is an explanation. Its consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And its in Bernies own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. Housein 1990where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.
In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmens groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle baneven bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmens Clubs.
I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidatesas the Sanders campaign press secretaryand recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in huntinghe previously was mayor of Vermonts biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nations characterization, isnt open-minded.
As you can see, Berniewho moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960shas an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. Hes not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jockbeing captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/
Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernieto test his mettle after Smiths about-face.
Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation? he asked. Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?
Yes, he replied. Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsmans Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
I said that before the election, he continued. The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We dont know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.
I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades
WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:
A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."
Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just dont think the state itself, whether its the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/
If he's a pro-NRA/pro-gun politician why did the NRA give him a lifetime D- rating?
The op will continue to misrepresent this article though, facts don't matter.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I guess currying favors from that Corporate surrogate was fine for the Congressional election, but he pretends like he isn't doing it today? Today Bernie doesn't even dare call them "establishment" like he did Planned Parenthood.
Cha
(297,655 posts)Mahalo pnwmom!
onehandle
(51,122 posts)DUMBgunnuts.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)If they say it, then it is not true.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Clearly, Sanders voting for Corporate Welfare for Gun Corporations is like sweet morning kisses for the NRA.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)It made international news.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Care to elaborate on what the NRA thinks Bernie's gun positions are?
You said : "The NRA prefers his gun positions. "
What positions would those be, specifically? I'm curious as to why the NRA would prefer them. If you're asserting/implying/suggesting that Bernie is a good friend to the NRA, or somehow in their pocket... well, I'd politely request that you present some kind of evidence of that... something besides an article that... well... doesn't actually mention Bernie.
Somehow, I highly doubt the Sanders is an ally of the NRA, or in their pocket.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hillary supporters have been making that claim for months but can't back it up.
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
Matt_R This message was self-deleted by its author.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Vinca
(50,303 posts)They're promoting Hillary by making Bernie less appealing to Democratic voters - even though Bernie's NRA rating has never been good. I imagine many organizations will be doing this since the release of the latest email info. The GOP candidate has a golden issue to run on. They will say she is not only dishonest, but she might be indicted. Hillary will go the way of John Kerry: Swiftboated on BS.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)And concerning to me. If I hadn't already made up my mind to support Hillary, this bit of information would certainly have me rethinking any support I might have been willing to give to Sanders in the primary.