2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Bernie Sanders list of “foreign policy consultants” is full of people who have never spoken to him"
The ruffle comes even as Sanders now says that his long-promised foreign policy address wont happen before primary voting begins after all, as his campaign is hoping it can win the first state or two while the candidate ignores foreign policy altogether. But the list of foreign policy experts hes consulted with, which appears to have been largely made up out of thin air, is more troubling. One person on the list says she vaguely recalls perhaps speaking with him six months ago. Another was asked how he got on the list and his answer was I dont know.
Not only is the Sanders campaign being dishonest by falsely claiming that these experts all advised him on foreign policy, the campaign is being naive by not expecting anyone in the media to contact those on the list for verification. But thats precisely what Politico did, and the results arent pretty. This comes in the same week in which everyone from the AARP to the League of Conservation Voters to the Nevada Culinary Union has accused Sanders of dishonest campaign tactics.
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/bernie-sanders-list-of-foreign-policy-consultants-is-full-of-people-who-have-never-spoken-to-him/23706/
This relates to the already posted Politico article. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-deficit-218431 The problem is that too many have opted not to read the story and are missing a key point highlighted above. I have never before heard of any candidate who has done something like this. I find it chilling.
Bernie voted against the Iraq War, MUCH to his credit. I applaud him for that. But foreign policy is a crucial component of the presidency. Anything can and does happen while a president is in office. A president needs ongoing and active familiarity, and he needs to take foreign policy very seriously.
This issue is too important for me to indulge responses by people uninterested in knowing the facts of the situation.
It is up to each and every citizen to decide if they choose to hold their elected leaders accountable. A responsible person should at least pause to find out more about the situation. This is not a game. This is the future of our country. Read the Politico article in its entirely.
I am busy canvassing today and will not be able to respond further.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Buttongate, logogate and mailergate! Chilling indeed!
This from a supporter of one of the most dishonest campaigners ever.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Clearly you find the disclosure irrelevant. That truly is unfortunate . It is an extremely serious matter.
I find your laughter at it disconcerting but sadly predictable.
Our country deserves an informed and an engaged citizenry that holds its leaders accountable. It deserves leaders who take foreign policy seriously rather than one who claims to have foreign policy advisers who don't even know him.
This is a serious, serious issue. Your typical, content free, automated response doesn't cut it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Don't blame me if no one takes it seriously other than Hillary supporters.
As websites go it's more Baghdad Bob than anything else. I'm half expecting a BREAKING news story about how Bernie is related to Bat Boy from them next.
PatrickforO
(14,587 posts)Really?
I had no idea.
I do agree with you about the dirt, though. This is good old fashioned Rovian ratfucking at its best. Here's what I think about the new 'allegations.'
John Poet
(2,510 posts)than consultants without a leader (Hillary).
At any rate, having a ton of consultants has never prevented Hillary from taking a WRONG position on a host of foreign policy issues...
And when I say "WRONG position",
I mean a neoconservative position which differs little in substance
from those promulgated by a George W. Bush or a Dick Cheney:
Pushing for "regime change" in a host of countries, starting with Iraq,
and her support for the Patriot Act and all the repressive practices that have grown out of that, at home.
Should I blame that on her consultants,
or on her?
LuvLoogie
(7,027 posts)with all that genuine authenticity. Reminding Hillary's supporters that we are but minions of evil.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Nitram
(22,877 posts)...by sliming the messenger. That kind of unquestioning loyalty is probably what accounts for staffers who listed "foreign policy consultants" that were never directly consulted. Pull your head out of the sand and accept it the Sanders and his campaign are not without flaws.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I'll just ignore your straw man since I never said any of those things.
Nitram
(22,877 posts)I'm pointing out that you ignore the charges and just slime Clinton and her supporters instead. Reading comprehension?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)When you can prove that I need to accept something I never rejected let me know.
Nitram
(22,877 posts)"Buttongate, logogate and mailergate! Chilling indeed!
This from a supporter of one of the most dishonest campaigners ever. "
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)My response was to the latest breathless scandal from a lame blogger who considered it so important and damning that they had to lump it in with last week's manufactured gnus.
And yes it was also a response to the op who just last night argued that Hillary didn't run a dishonest, racist campaign in 2008.
It's a glass houses thing.
I don't get my news from blogs that are owned by Hillary fans and I certainly don't recoil in shock when posters who have been smearing my candidate for months claim they're "chilled" by something they read on one.
Ymmv.
Nitram
(22,877 posts)...where the sun don't shine. If you have nothing to say about the substance, then why comment at all? Nuff said.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Horse puckey.
The op and you expected a huge reaction to the BREAKING news story and didn't get it.
You'll get over it.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)not seeming to "get" that you haven't been hired to set standards on the manner in which anyone else decides to post.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Well, *that's* reassuring! Right up there with Murrow, Cronkite, Thomas...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)but she played a doctor, so maybe we all should defer to her! Big Hillary fan. No surprise there. I didn't bother with the other "real news outlet" contributors, since I imagine it's more of the same.
The Politico article doesn't back up the claims in the Daily Bin hit piece, no matter how much Camp Weathervane claims otherwise.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Oh, well, fun aside, the bullshit in the Daily "News" Bin still isn't backed up by the Politico piece. Do they think we're stupid? Lazy?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I wonder if the op is still "chilled" by the faux "news"?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Perhaps in the soap opera biz, too?!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thanks for doing the research, that's going to have me chuckling all evening.
polly7
(20,582 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)How about race car driver? Soap opera star is already taken.
https://www.facebook.com/thebillpalmer
Christy Bishop Cricow appears to be an interior designer.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christy-bishop-cricow-927b4528
Hard-hitting journalists, one and all!
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)goes beyond the typical gotcha nonsense. This is about a leading candidate's preparedness and the degree to which he takes responsibilities of the office seriously. That so many decide a priori that they don't care is precisely why we have a government insufficiently accountable to the people.
Any responsible citizen should at least pause and seek to know the facts, even if they think the world of Bernie.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)a few not very in-depth conversations with him.
The other is his failure to make his promised foreign policy speech, or to present a coherent foreign policy vision, other than not having voted for the IWR.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)enid602
(8,652 posts)His whole campaign is starting to look like the Burlington College fiasco.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)If you believe the press has fabricated it. Talk to them. See if they actually consult regularly with Sanders. Do you even care?
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Things like this are not very confidence-inspiring to me.
cali
(114,904 posts)There are quite a few of these faux news sites.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Politico has been no friend of the Clintons and negative Hillary stories are regularly and gleefully cited here by BS supporters, so trashing this source at this point is quite disingenuous.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)rumsfeld, powell, rice and wolfowitcz troubles them not at all.
gods these are interesting times we live in
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)and what does that say about her, I wonder?
You will be judged by the company you keep, my gramma always said.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)What are you talking about?
Nitram
(22,877 posts)When in doubt, reach into the grab bag of anti-Clinton talking points and throw whatever comes out.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I know Bernie is no expert and so does he, but I also know he won't consult a war criminal with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands.
If he wins I trust him to choose experts, no president can go it alone.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)So to speak.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)mcar
(42,372 posts)Did the Sanders campaign think they would get away with this?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...touching.
Thank you.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)Extremely dishonest.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)More than $1,000,000,000,000 More than the Army, Air Force, Marines, Navy, CIA, NSA, FBI...
If that is not enough there is not enough
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)that fact. I don't really respect that tactic much. An opinion blog should not pose as objective news. I know Anita ever so slightly, we have met let's put it that way so that's all I'm saying is that calling an opinion piece news is what they do over at Fox and it is not my cup of tea.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Hillary has a machine behind her full of money and resources, and just like the Republicans, they're resorting to name-calling and fabrications, presenting this crap to the public as legitimate journalism.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)The Bernie campaign is in full self destruct mode.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...thousands of our troops and 100,000s of innocent people.
frylock
(34,825 posts)your candidate is really, REALLY going to need it.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,975 posts)I'm so glad he's not listening to:
Former Assistant Defense Secretary Derek Chollet, former Pentagon and CIA Chief of Staff Jeremy Bash, and former Deputy National Security Adviser Julianne Smith from Beacon Global Strategies that advises Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio.
Former Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns from Cohen Group, a consulting firm founded by former Defense Secretary William Cohen. The firm assists aerospace and defense firms on policy, business development, and transactions, including deals in the U.S., Turkey, Israel, and the Middle East.
Former Undersecretary of Defense Jim Miller, an advisory board member to Endgame Systems, a start-up that has been called the Blackwater of Hacking. Miller is also on the board of BEI Precision Systems & Space, a military contractor.
and others . . .
I'll take Sanders judgment (and my own) over these advisors any day!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Kewl story bro.
Tell us another!
Response to BainsBane (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ancianita
(36,133 posts)HERE IS WHY FOREIGN POLICY IS NOT AN IMPORTANT CANDIDATE STRENGTH -- at least for an experienced Senator with two brain cells to rub together.
1. The People come first. Always. Domestic policy -- The People -- should be the priority of all democracy's campaigns.
2. Republicans have campaigned the military-might-chest-beating to death -- to death! Military fear budgeting is psychotic.
The military/foreign policy givens: years of battles lied about, videotaped, won and lost, homeless vets, undersupplied troops, drone civilian attacks and WHAT Intel? Suborned intel.
Now the defeated suck our budget out of us the way Reagan sucked the failing Soviets' budget!
American foreign policy looks so fucking classified that no established states will share an official vision not tainted by international secret trade agreements!
3. This is the David Brock playbook 'next play.' Falling for that tiredtiredtired old school fearmongering crap is currently the death of us -- from individual to nation -- as it saps our domestic body politic.
4. THE primary issue: If we don't rebuild domestically -- we must rebuild domestically -- there will be little worth defending -- even if it's just to defend low-cost city real estate and public lands full of the "self-employed."
Why? Because millions of psychically and economically defeated will not really care about any 'new overlords.' Americans will stop being the "united" states.
Underneath high visibility presidential politics is this reality -- that even as they are betrayed, lied to, hungry, tired, too incapacitated to fight or think for themselves, Americans may look down but they're not out.
Those plutocrats who think they can steal from the 99%, and then run this country without the 99%, they'll find out that when Americans recover, they will come for them. Unless ours are as wise as the plutocrats of Europe. That's doubtful.
5. Bernie has a record of providing for the defense. The MIC WILL get their funding. They WILL cut waste, do more with less. Troops WILL get more benefits, not contractors. I'm ready to call it Defense Austerity Preparedness.
Meanwhile, there's plenty PLENTY of good foreign policy help out there for Sanders. He's got the Joint Chiefs for one angle and the whole deep state at the State Department and three letter agencies for the other angles. Not to mention the advice of previous presidents.
6. Rebuilding plans are, for our People, now more important than a foreign policy speech.
jen63
(813 posts)rumbles around in my brain with out organization, very succinctly. Can I talk you into posting this as an op?!
ancianita
(36,133 posts)as an OP right before the Iowa. I'm willing to wait until the results are in and not take this last minute bait from the Hillary people.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)"And several people whom the Sanders campaign has cited as sources of national security advice tell POLITICO they barely know the socialist firebrand."
vs:
"have never spoken to him"
"I had a conversation with him last August, said Tamara Cofman Wittes, a Brookings Institution Middle East scholar, after checking her calendar"
vs:
"have never spoken to him"
"Ray Takeyh, an Iran scholar at the Council on Foreign Relations who says he spoke to Sanders once or twice"
vs:
"have never spoken to him"
"Five of the people cited by his campaign say they have only spoken to him once or twice."
vs:
"have never spoken to him"
In fact there's not a SINGLE instance in the entire article where someone is listed as giving him foreign policy advice that has never spoken to Sanders.
Why you would CHOOSE to lie about that, then link to an article ABOUT the article, instead of the actual article, making it harder for people to figure out you weren't being honest, is well beyond me...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The bloggers got it wrong.
Again.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Would be helpful.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)on ISIS
Speech against war in 1991
Answering Foreign policy questions
ecstatic
(32,731 posts)Jake's a jerk, I know...But when pressed, Bernie mentioned some dude who worked in Reagan's administration?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)THE HORROR! Kinda like Abraham Lincoln, eh? Hillary? Not so much.
Not surprising...
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-deficit-218431P
It's jobs and the economy, stupid.
Please name names as to who Bernie never spoke to. EXACT names.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Too funny.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)You have to be told the source is Politico?
What evidence do you have that Politico lied?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Nowhere in the Politico piece is there any proof of Bernie's "list of foreign policy consultants is full of people who have never spoken to him."
Seriously, did you even read the Politico piece? Skimming Crap Blogs is really lazy.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)"I don't know how I got on Bernie Sander's list."
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Still nothing backs up the Crap Blog's lies about "never speaking to," but do keep trying.
I dont know how I got on Bernie Sanders list, said Ray Takeyh, an Iran scholar at the Council on Foreign Relations who says he spoke to Sanders once or twice about the Iran nuclear deal at Sanders request in mid-2015.
....
Though he said he is no Sanders confidant, Takeyh called the Vermonter thoughtful on the subject of the Iran nuclear deal. Takeyh opposed the deal, but Sanders called him anyway. "He wanted to hear different perspectives. He demonstrated command of the topic," Takeyh said.
....
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-deficit-218431#ixzz3ytfTBrNq
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)"I have a vague recollection that...'
"I apparently had a conversation with him last August."
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Face it... the Hillary Fan Blog is lying. Why on earth would Hillary supporters lie?
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)obtuseness and just stubborn hostility to deny what the piece is saying, which it looks you are wallowing in. Why would Bernie supporters lie?*
*note to jury: I only added the part about Bernie supporters because of the hostile attack in the post I'm responding to which basically called me a liar when all I did was quote from the article.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)The Politico piece in no way, shape or form backs up the accusation of "never spoken to him."
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)The piece is from POLITICO
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)claims it does.
We're done. Just like Hillary may be in Iowa.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)There is no other explanation except pettiness. It's that obvious.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)we're going to score blows by calling people liars, but that only made you look foolish and you had no choice but to acknowledge POLITICO.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)as Hillary. And that's a problem because the permanent war economy mobilizes around inexperience and naiveté to launch its horrors, going back to Eisenhower and before that to the Rome of Cicero and Caesar and probably long before that.
p.s. I took one look at that ginormous list and had to laugh. Thanks for the backgrounder. And to those unhappy about the articles, we don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
IllinoisBrenel
(51 posts)When it comes to Foreign policy experience, how much did President Obama have when he became President? None, and how much did Hillary have when she became SOS, she was a former one term Senator!
And it showed! She criticized the hostage exchange from Iran before they had left Iran! In other words she undermined the President's actions! i don't know much about diplomacy, but believe her public statement could put those sailors in danger! And her willingness to overthrow Gadaffi! And the "we came,,,we saw...he died" That's not the way I want my President to act!
Bernie has been in the House and Senate for over 25 years, and I imagine he has voted on quite a few foreign policy bills in that time! And I know he has shown good judgment, the Iraqi war vote, for example!
He will be a great Commander in Chief!