Does anyone actually believe that your genetalia determine your political beliefs?

[OrwellwasRight]

If not, then how is it an argument to say that "I am not establishment because I am a woman"?

I really didn't get that argument at all, and, as a woman, I find it offensive that I keep hearing it is my job to support Hillary so we can have the first woman President. Margaret Thatcher was the first woman PM in the UK. Was every woman in the UK expected to be excited about that? I bet they weren't.

I also found her closing remarks, which was a listing of separate groups, more divisive than Bernie's which brought us all together in solidarity to fight inequality.

[onecaliberal]

1. Apparently because Hillary plays the woman card constantly.

[OrwellwasRight]

5. To me, her frequent use of the woman card

minimizes the struggles that women less powerful than her face every day. She just doesn't strike me as oppressed.

[onecaliberal]

6. Speaking as a woman, you're right. I can't even stand the sight of her.

[glinda]

7. I would not want her mad at me.

She just screams and yells and gets really loud and talks non stop. I was saddened by that because I want any woman representing our Government to handle themselves differently. Strong but differently.

[onecaliberal]

8. She is fake and rehearsed.

She wouldn't do a fucking thing her corporate benefactors didn't pre approve. anyone who thinks differently is so lacking in common sense and doesn't live in the real world. I'm also amazed at the so called dems who don't care about all of the suffering because it's not them.

[glinda]

9. Crazy how it shook them out for the people to see.

[onecaliberal]

10. Agree. I'm dissolussioned with the party.

[Empowerer]

2. They don't determine them, but experiences and perspectives that one has as a result of their gender

(or race or orientation, etc.) can influence their political beliefs.

Pretending otherwise assumes that people's experiences don't impact their lives.

[OrwellwasRight]

4. Yeah, but that's still not saying

I'm a woman, ergo I can't be establishment. Then what is Carly Fiorina FFS? It is simply not a credible argument. It's also not credible to pretend she is not in a position of power in our society. She is in th elite and that's a fact.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. I know that my wife and two daughters don't agree with that reasoning either.

All three strongly support Bernie.

[frylock]

11. How would one go about making that determination, and is it sinful?

Asking for a friend.

[OrwellwasRight]

14. Lol!

A friend. Uh huh.

[JudyM]

12. Only for guys.

Leaning Left or Right...

[840high]

13. lol

[DanTex]

15. Well, there have been 44 male presidents in a row, in a nation that is 50% female. So there's that.

[OrwellwasRight]

16. That is a totally separate question.

A member of a socio-economic class that is not a member of the lost-favored calss (i.e., someone who is a straight, white, cis-gendered mail) is not automatically not part of the establishment.

Condoleeza Rice, Phyllis Schafly, Clarence Thomas are all part of the "establishment" no matter what they look like on the outside.

Hillary Clinton is part of the establishment. She has benefited from it and defends it.

[DanTex]

17. Not entirely. She is obviously part of the establishment in on sense, the one you describe.

Of course, Bernie is also part of the establishment, being in the senate. Compared to, say, me, both of them are highly establishment.

But being a woman also makes her an outsider in a very meaningful sense. Women have traditionally, and to this day, been denied the highest ranks of power. I don't see it as totally separate.

[OrwellwasRight]

23. I disagree 100%.

Establishment means benefiting from and supporting the current hegemony. She does both.

Under your criteria, Clarence Thomas also fits as non-establishment because Blacks have also been shut out of the "highest ranks of power." Riiiiiight. And what about Bernie being Jewish?

Plumbing doesn't define where you stand on supporting the distribution of power that already exists. Your personal actions and principles do. By that criteria, some who thinks our system essentially works but is wiling to make tweaks around the edges is establishment (particularly when that someone is a millionaire and is included in the highest levels of political decision making in this country), and someone who says it doesn't work for most of us and we need radical change isn't.

Call me when she gets turned down from participating in Davos or can't get into the Rainbow Room. Then we can discuss if she is not longer "establishment."

[Attorney in Texas]

19. This is an argument that makes no distinction among Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin, and Carly Fiorina.

Personally, I hope Elizabeth Warren is our first female president.

[DanTex]

20. Correct. And the "establishment bad" argument makes no distinction between Bernie and Ron Paul.

[OrwellwasRight]

24. Why should it?

You can be anti-establishment left or anti-establishment-right. Or you can be pro-establishment with left or right leanings. Establishment is about the status quo of power.

[Attorney in Texas]

18. YES!!! All circumcised Jews MUST vote Sanders!

[Hiraeth]

22. lol Thanks !! I needed that. eom

[Hiraeth]

21. to the extent that it alters a life path somewhat, yes.

[OrwellwasRight]

25. "Determine" not influence.

I am a woman therefore I can't be establishment is not a defensible position.

If it were, let's all vote for Carly Fiorina!