2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIt seems to really bother people when women just mention
they have been historically locked out of the power of the "establishment".
Really weird to see so many upset about the mention of it.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)that particular woman making those statements has not been locked out of power, in fact, she had prominent positions of power.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)We want a woman president, but...........
Well, I think that they are still going to get one.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... their condescending responses to her.
We'll know after SC... but to some degree it sounds like the tone of his campaign is turning off 4 of the five parts of the Obama coallition
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Anybody who has the gall to publicly express her or his political disagreement with Clinton or her supporters is by definition racist and sexist.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... liberal rating in congress.
People can say what they want there're not going to say Clinton is rightward... she has the scares to show it, Sanders agrees.
Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)
cui bono This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)No one disputes that. Not even her.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Something along the lines of 'I'm not part of the establishment because I'm a woman'...
Wish I could remember which speech that was. Maybe a debate...
Fearless
(18,421 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Its almost comical.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)JudyM
(29,248 posts)Obvious meaning of the question.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)JudyM
(29,248 posts)She was a senator and FLOTUS and SOS. She is receiving tens of millions of dollars from Wall Street and big biz. She charges a ton of money for speeches. Etc.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)That it is an additional road block.
JudyM
(29,248 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)But very happy to see you acknowledge it exists.
JudyM
(29,248 posts)Our establishment. She wheels and deals with the best of them.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)belonging to.
And he's been part of that establishment a lot longer than she has...
But now he's pretending that he doesn't belong to one of the most exclusive clubs in the world...
JudyM
(29,248 posts)blishment.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)criticizing. He very clearly defines the "Establishment" as including people in certain positions, regardless of their views. By his own definition, he is a member of the Establishment, regardless of his views.
If you dismiss people as "Establishment" solely because they happen to be a governor or mayor or senator or Member of Congress without pointing to any view theirs that otherwise qualify them to be defined as such and you yourself have spent the last 35 years as a mayor, Senator and Member of Congress, you cannot then claim that you aren't in the Establishment because your views make you "anti-establishment."
If you join a country club you can't claim you're not really a member just because you complain about the country clubs rules.
polly7
(20,582 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Hekate
(90,690 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Your reply makes no sense.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)But of course admitting that either Democratic candidate would be a first just fucks up your narrative.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)You can't get around that - he can point his finger all he wants, but he's parked himself right in the middle of that club and fully enjoys it's benefits without any apparent hesitation or feelings of guilt.
So all of the "she's a member of the Establishment" crap is just that.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)we should vote for any women that is running
so in a hypothetical if Sarah or Carly got the repug nomination, those of us that want a women president should vote for them if they were running against a male Dem?
So we can have a women prez?
Beacool
(30,247 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)She's extremely disingenuous to be playing the "outsider" role.
And you also should know better than to ask that question.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)there has never been a woman president. Her election would be just as historical as president Obama's was in 2008.
I support Hillary because I think that she is the best qualified person running for president, but my heart fills with pride at the thought that we could finally have a woman president. Just like AA were filled with pride when Obama won the presidency.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)You do not have to be president to be part of the establishment. Is VP Biden part of the establishment? How about John Boner? Mitch McConnell? Jeb Bush? All of them are part of the establishment.
You want to talk women? Is Condolleeza Rice part of the establishment? Madeline Albright? Senator Feinstein? These ladies are definitely part of the establishment.
If you were a former first lady, US Senator and Secretary of State over the past 25 years, you are part of the establishment.
It's a big club and you ain't in it. None of us out here are. But Hillary Clinton? She's definitely in it.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)of the candidates by the mere fact that she would be the first of her kind, if she were to win. The expectations and focus on a woman candidate are different than on the men.
President Obama said it best a couple of weeks ago:
The truth is, in 2007 and 2008, sometimes my supporters and my staff, I think, got too huffy about what were legitimate questions she was raising, Obama said. And there were times where I think the media probably was a little unfair to her and tilted a little my way in calling her out.
Obama said Clinton had a tougher job throughout 2008 primary than he did.
She had to do everything that I had to do, except, like Ginger Rogers, backwards in heels, he said. She had to wake up earlier than I did because she had to get her hair done. She had to, you know, handle all the expectations that were placed on her.
He added: Had things gone a little bit different in some states or if the sequence of primaries and caucuses been a little different, she could have easily won.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)none of it has any impact at all on the original post, my response to it and your first response to me, namely the question of whether or not a former first lady, US Senator and Secretary of State is part of the establishment.
Sorry, but she. is. part. of. the. f@#$ing. establishment.
I have to go now, we're taking our great grandkids skiing, and I need to get some sleep. You have a nice evening.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Have fun skiing!!!
Response to boston bean (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)for her and then also uses her gender to try and silence a male opponent.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)There's an OP right now where someone thinks they "figured it out" when in fact all they are doing is playing the gender card in defense of their chosen one and making a mockery of feminism and real problems that women face. They actually think that Hillary is being criticized for taking all that speaking money from Goldman Sachs just because she's a woman who dares to make that much money for speaking engagements. And zealots are reccing that pos.
.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)unfortunately we had the same reaction when anyone criticized Obama as some said any disagreement on policy was racist.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Using issues as political footballs isn't just for Teabaggers any more!
.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Play that victim card yet again. Political criticisms of Clinton and her supporters are always by definition racist and sexist.
"You cannot call a member of the establishment a member of the establishment without disempowering all women everywhere." Clinton Campaign
kath
(10,565 posts)Hillary Clinton's Internet Supporters Desperately Want This Campaign to be about Sexism
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/hillary-clintons-internet-supporters-desperately-w.html
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)toward African Americans and other people of color. Talking about something represents a challenge; enforcing silence enables subjugation to continue.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Why is it so hard for some people to understand how much it would mean for many women (not all, of course) to have a woman elected president? To finally break that glass ceiling.
To a lot of women around the world Hillary is an icon. I recall when she traveled as SOS how many women would want to meet her. It was touching how some of them had copies of her 1995 speech in Beijing. Hillary went to places where no SOS would normally go. For example, she went to an orphanage in Cambodia that the government tried to keep out of sight because it took in girls that had been in the sex trade. She brought it to the forefront. Trip after trip she insisted on making similar visits.
https://secretaryclinton.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/secretary-of-state-hillary-clinton-in-cambodia-pledging-to-continue-fighting-sexual-slavery/
I am proud to support Hillary and it's my fervent hope that she becomes president.
Hekate
(90,690 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)be playing the gender card. It undermines feminism itself. There's an idiotic OP in the Hillary group now which I saw since it's on the greatest page and it is so insulting to feminism as it actually says that the reason Hillary is getting flack for taking all that money from Goldman Sachs as speaking fees is because she is a woman who is making that much money. How ridiculous. And they actually thought they had figured it out and used logic.
That kind of distorted thinking that people do just to prop up their chosen one is detrimental to real feminism. It's an insult to women who are actually struggling against oppression.
Yes, women have it harder than men in all areas, establishment or working class, but when the gender card is played as an excuse, when there is no sexism at all involved, it is being used for contrary reasons and results that set back the women's movement and make a mockery of it.
.
jillan
(39,451 posts)These threads are the exact opposite.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)are the ones I have seen playing the gender card.
.
Response to cui bono (Reply #87)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)on the speaking tour, claiming she isn't part of the Establishment is way beyond ludicrous.
She is subject to sexism, especially from the GOP and critons like Tweety, but her privilege as a super-elite is something almost no one on the planet experiences.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)her husband as much as she benefits from it. She is not Bill.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)She had to suffer the indignity of living in Fayetteville, Arkansas for a year before landing a job as a corporate lawyer in Little Rock, then moving into the governor's mansion a couple of years after that, and spending 12 of the next 14 years as the governor's wife rubbing shoulders with the state's richest Republicans, then moving on to the White House for 8 years, then moving into one of the poshest neighborhoods in suburban New York after that.
Poor, poor Hillary!
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Nobody gave them political power (Al From is another topic). They have "earned" what they have in power and wealth, as opposed to legacies like W and Trump. But uber-privilege it is nonetheless. Is she exposed to sexism and RW attacks? Of course. But it is absurd to claim she is not a member of the Establishment. She's not just a member, she is a leader, as evidenced by the lavish Wall Street contributions.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Last night he dismissed her endorsers as "Establishment" solely by virtue of the fact that they are governors, mayors, Members of Congress and Senators - when he has held three of those four positions, exclusively with no other employment over the past 35 years and ran unsuccessfully for the fourth.
He is a charter member of the Establishment he claims to so despise.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)He certainly has privilege as a US Senator. But big corporations get no access, because he doesn't accept their contributions. Read his book, he has always been fighting against both parties to be elected during his career. He gets last status in seniority with the Dems in Congress. His place in American politics is sui generis. There is nobody else like him. That is why he has the lowest net worth in the Senate and why he is the longest tenured independent in Congress in American history.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Because there is no valid response to what you wrote.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)I put up a thread asking a hypothetical Bernie Vs. Warren. There were actually responses that SHE was establishment too.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... eagerly crave an endorsement of Bernie?
Oh my!
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)the GOP fronted Palin, Bachmann or Fiorina.
And if Hillary feels all "boys're big ol' meanie heads" dealing with someone as congenial as Bernie I'm left with the impression she'll be reduced to quivering paralysis when challenged by Putin or any one of a number of chauvinistic leaders from rancidly misogynistic societies in the world.
Either she's tough enough for this job or she isn't. Pick one and stick to it. Otherwise, you're just feeding the cynicism about her ability to self-servingly play any role without conviction.
ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)Gender and race--now reduced to "cards"
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Just look at all of the female presidents, senators and governors we've had over the years . . .
Oh, wait a minute...
closeupready
(29,503 posts)but cries like a baby because all her wealth and daily phone calls with Warren Buffett and George Soros can't change the fact that life is unfair.
Lame. Lame. Lame. NOT presidential.
riversedge
(70,220 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)idea how hard it has become to get ahead - or even simply make a living - for the average American. No, what she goes on about is how everyone's TONE is discriminatory and sexist.
As someone else said, it is VERY comical...
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)He says it is not right that his secretary pays a higher percentage of income tax than he does.
Do you believe Bernie disagrees that the 1% should pay higher taxes than the 99%? I don't.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)... that you are definitely part of the establishment.
Keep flailing.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)But that doesn't mean Hillary isn't an establishment politician.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)But not HRC. Not ever.
And electing a centrist woman who supports a hawkish defense policy can't change that.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)This stuff is becoming annoyingly repetitive.