2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLast night Clinton exposed the fact that Sanders CAN NOT pass his own purity test
... and neither can a good portion of progressives who've busted their ass's for liberal causes.
But the next day Sanders camp and supporters continue applying this defunct purity test to everyone else!!!
Including Franks!!
John Lewis a sell out too!?
REALLY!!?!?
At what point will Sanders camp stop intimating that Bernie Sanders is pure as the driven snow and can throw stones?
Or is it Sanders is pure and everyone else is stained to be damned and needs to be thrown out of office?
Your take?
tia
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)I thought it was just me who couldn't figure out what the OP was trying to say
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)They syntax check you.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)Sanders-Clinton debate transcript: Annotating what they say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/04/sanders-clinton-debate-transcript-annotating-what-they-say/
MADDOW: Secretary Clinton, Senator Sanders is campaigning against you now, at this point in the campaign, basically arguing that you are not progressive enough to be the Democratic nominee. ...
Given those policy positions, why should liberal Democrats support you and not Senator Sanders?
CLINTON: Well because I am a progressive who gets things done. And the root of that word, progressive, is progress. But I've heard Senator Sanders comments, and it's really caused me to wonder who's left in the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Under his definition, President Obama is not progressive because he took donations from Wall Street; Vice President Biden is not progressive because she supported Keystone; Senator Shaheen is not progressive because she supports the trade pact. Even the late, great Senator Paul Wellstone would not fit this definition because he voted for DOMA.
You know, we have differences and, honestly, I think we should be talk about what we want to do for the country. But if we're going to get into labels, [font color="red"]I don't think it was particularly progressive to vote against the Brady Bill five times.[/font]
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.
"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/
Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case youre referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that theyre going to try to impose, I think doesnt make sense.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and I still have no idea what point they are trying to make.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... and meaningless
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)hillary has called herself both a moderate and a progressive in recent history. sanders merely noted that they are fairly self exclusionary poltiical views. she, having been called on her wavering bullshit, tried to make him the bad guy for pointing out HER inconsistencies.
this is not ad hom.. it is calling out of her pandering b.s.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because I thought we were still knee-deep in unicorn shit.
There were so many bright colors.
*Seriously* *Bright* *Colors*
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yesterday was guns and today was "Make Your Own Meme" day, is it time for another red baiting op again?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)time for the "sexist" meme to roll around again.
I'm just guessing.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And yet women are still flocking to Bernie in droves, go figure.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)and can throw stones."
Grammar, meh
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)You really are... something.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Does Team Clinton think that they will win with THAT? Confessing their massive ties to Wall St and trying to make that okay with some version of 'the other guy does it too'?
Since the "other guy" is Sanders "that dog won't hunt."
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... he chides everyone else for not being.
They don't have to "win with that" just expose Sanders for not being the uber progressive he claims everyone else isn't.
Sanders votes for CFMA and everyone else is a wall street sell out!?
Really?!
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... and Sanders had no retort to it... just changed the subject
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Sanders OWNS this subject. HRC might as well try to beat Serena Williams in tennis.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... the thickness of the bubble Sanders camp lives in
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)What did she tell them that was worth $675,000? She obviously doesn't want us to know.
Release the transcripts and I will be sure to bookmark them.
cali
(114,904 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)casperthegm
(643 posts)What a load of crap. First, the version he signed off on differed a bit from the final version and second it was wrapped into the overall budget for the year, which passed on a vote of 377-4. The whole thing is clearly explained in the article link I am pasting. There are areas that I stand in disagreement with Sanders on but this is really grasping at straws. You want to hit him on gun control, I think you have something, certainly more than this. Comparing Sanders to Clinton on Wall Street is honestly quite laughable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-wall-street_us_5617f634e4b0dbb8000e5a58
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)criticizing your position.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)You don't specify what's involved, so I agree with the comment about word salad.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... cause Sanders isn't the Uber progressive he chides everyone else for not being
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)going to get this guy on purity.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... like he claims
That was evident
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)And it is getting worse.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)gonna be a long ugly slog
pangaia
(24,324 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)But, yes, it will get worse.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... so he has not stones to pick up and throw on the "influence" issue.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)glass steagall
wall street fundraising
tpp
and on and on......
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... he's not Obama in 08
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... never hated him, he has an... AVG.... C rating from the NRA
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)they update those lists about every year..
bottom line..,they don't support him, they don't finance him, they see him as much of a threat as any dem
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I thought we went over all this before, do you have a new source or something?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)right with what a d- rating from them?
Meanwhile, America's Margaret Thatcher has:
1) Voted for the TPP.
2) Voted to repeal Glass-Steagall.
3) Voted for the Iraq war.
4) Oversaw the atrocities in Syria and Libya(how does that count as foreign policy expertise again).
5) Lied to the families of those who died in Benghazi.
6) Accepted money from Goldman-Sachs and the likes of those that literally destroyed the economy.
7) Voted against ending the use of cluster bombs in military conflict.
8) Changed her mind on LGBT equality due to political expedience(better late than never doesn't work here).
9) Accepted money from the Private Prison lobbyists(and we say she's the better candidate for poc? sure i'll believe that one when i miraculously stop being biracial or smth i dunno anymore).
This whole "purity" meme is asking to backfire. Most I can think of slamming Bernie for is maybe the same as number 8 for Clinton, but at the same time, his whole thing was legitimately over state's rights-- which the left has essentially used as a dog whistle for racists since practically the Civil War.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Unless the gun stores who were getting sued for complicity in the crimes that were committed with the weapons they sold are actually corporations in disguise, your argument holds no water.
If someone gets beaten with a deadbolt in a sock, should we be suing Schlage and Hanes?
If someone gets force-fed Drano, should we be suing the supermarket it was bought from?
So why, on the Goddess's green fucking creation are we going to go after gun stores that sold a tool, that some malcontent had the gall to use as a weapon?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... or anyone else deemed a sell out or "Establishment" like PP and NARAL
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Don't worry, I'll wait for you to actually pull some fresh bait, and not the same Third Way "everyone is a hypocrite" memes.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... got try the ignorance position on some one else.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Vulgar is absolutely correct.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"All over the industrialized world now, countries are saying, let us put an end to state murder, let us stop capital punishment," Sanders said in a 1991 speech on the House floor. "But here what were talking about is more and more capital punishment."
The bill, which included provisions to authorize the death penalty as appropriate punishment for crimes involving the murder of a law enforcement officer, terrorism and drug trafficking, never reached the desk of President George H.W. Bush.
In 1994, however, Sanders voted in favor of the final version of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a bill that expanded the federal death penalty. Sanders had voted for an amendment to the bill that would have replaced all federal death sentences with life in prison. Even though the amendment failed, Sanders still voted for the larger crime bill.
A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/
Doesn't that disprove the gun industry shill meme?
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)in the history of this Republic.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Sanders has a whole bag full of bad just waiting to be released.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's got style.
"Bag full of Bad."
Used in a sentence: "Bernie is rebutting Hillary by stating facts, figures and bags full of bad that she couldn't counter if she was Floyd Mayweather."
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Thanks.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... helps him in other states
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)karynnj
(59,503 posts)Bernie OR is Bernie too close to the fringe of the party. They seriously have to choose one -- not both of these arguments because having both together twists their supporters into pretzels and requires weird mental gymnastics to make a coherent argument including both.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... pass his own purity test no matter how many times he changes the subject to wall street
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)doesn't make it true, you know.
So, from this OP, can we garner that there will be no more "Sanders is too liberal to win the GE" days coming in the near future? Or do you guys just not give a shit about consistency in arguments?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... he has his own bag of bad that when looked into doesn't seem any better than anyone else.
Obama was just as liberal as Sanders and Obama was black... Sanders is viable if he can pull the Obama coalistion but outside of poor whites he's doing a horrible job of that
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Are we soon going to have you call it a "vague possible inference"?
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I have never heard Bernie talk about a purity test, could you please provide a link to show us this test that you claim he is subjecting everyone to?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... standard
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I did find an allegation from Blue Nation Review which is an anti-Bernie site which claimed he had a purity test but they gave no examples of Bernie talking about a purity test. If he actually did this you should be able to provide a link.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... understand that his litmus meme of Clinton throughout this campaign is what I'm talking about.
Fiegn indignation all you want
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I don't have any clue what you ate talking about when you say he has a purity test or uses a "litmus test meme" against Clinton, please provide a link to Sanders talking about a purity test.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... that "progressive".
She was very clear about his votes and listed them...
Don't see what's hard about looking them up
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)You seem to be unable to provide a link to the purity test that you claim Bernie has, but you are telling us that Bernie fails this purity test. So who created this purity test that you think Bernie fails?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... a physical test one is to take.
This is lame
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Despite the fact that you basically just admitted this purity test does not actually exist you still seem to want to credit Sanders with creating this nonexistent purity test however.
I am sure it makes it a lot easier to debate when you don't need reality, you can just make up what Sanders "figuratively" believes.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... yes .. its figurative... wow
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Interesting that you are now talking about her giving the purity test to him, in the OP you suggested the purity test was Bernie's but with this post you seem to acknowledge you are actually talking about a test that Hillary is applying.
I never heard Hillary talk about a purity test either, but hey she is your candidate so I will let you say what you want about her.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Purity tests are good in the OP, purity tests down the thread are bad, and the only purity test that is actually valid is when Hillary Clinton comes out as the 'winner'.
I am as clueless as you are about what in the heck the OP is trying to say.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)is a perfectly logical response to a post that makes no sense.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Good to see you Aerows.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... test or some online score and fiegn indignation to find out its Sanders statements about Clinton''s integrity throughout his campaign.
whatever, feign away... that's lame
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Period! Quit the spin!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/4/1390529/-Hillary-s-voting-record
It's sad how Hillary supporters are propping up the apparent talking point how being a progressive is akin to being a Democrat, a generic term, when in fact it isn't. It stands for ideas which are revolutionary. The only thing Hillary is revolutionary in is figuring out new ways to get cash from Wall Street and hide it through her foundation.
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/31/the_cash_donations_hillary_simply_has_no_answer_for_partner/
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... Clinton exposed that last night... that gash is going to turn into gang green if Sanders keeps up with the purity talk
Let's talk.
Tell us please where Bernie isn't progressive? Go ahead. I'm betting you'll say guns won't you. Not sure if you're aware that he voted for the AWB in the 80s but go ahead.
Hillary isn't a progressive.
You want a list?
I shall provide it.
Iraq
TPP
KXL
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Having a melt down as SOS over gender changes of same sex couple
Wall Street donations
Speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Calling herself a moderate
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
Pro arctic drilling
pro fracking
on and on..........................
In fact, in three seperate bills, Hillary broke with democrats to vote in favor of the use of this chemical in US fuel.
Hillary broke with Democrats against ensuring the workers at the Rocky Flats Environmental Technology Site would not receive life insurance, health and life insurance benefits when their environmental work was terminated by the republican majority.
Hillary broke ranks with the democrats and voted with the majority of republicans to eliminate the requirement of reusable fuel in US gasoline in 2004.
Hillary voted with republicans for oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
To authorize the State of Virginia to petition for authorization to conduct natural gas exploration and drilling activities in the coastal zone of the State.
Hillary didn't vote
That's your candidate. OWN IT.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Enough said.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... reminder
pinebox
(5,761 posts)" Given Bernie's human rights concerns regarding the facility, he likely voted against it because the plans did not address the human rights violations--including being held indefinitely without trial--that he and so many other Americans are most concerned about with regards to Guantnamo." http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Homeland_Security.htm
Meanwhile....
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... already prepared not to bit.
#SandersSoPure
About to trend no?
tia
Meanwhile we're miles ahead of you.
#HillarySoProgressive
Typical though, Hillary IS after all behind the times.
How's that whole gay marriage support established since 2013 coming along? lol
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)...posting evidence about her voting record is of no consequence to us voters because most voters already know HRC and what she stands for.
It is Sanders who seems to have this Litmus test for any and everyone who doesn't support him on each and every thing.
It is Sanders who seems to be politically nuanced when it comes to...oh let's see...certain race issues. However when it comes to Obama, he doesn't give that same courtesy to the president.
Again, even though we know Obama was never a liberal--he never said he was and nothing in his platform or voting record suggests that he was/is liberal. But Sanders' supporters don't seem to have the same level of sophistication when it comes to the fact that Bernie will have to work with moderates and conservatives in both parties.
As soon as a President Sanders has to compromise his liberal/progressive views in order to get anything done, you supporters will be at his throat. It happened with Obama who isn't a liberal; it'll definitely happen to Sanders, unless, of course, there's a double standard. That wouldn't shock me if it were.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)The only thing you can project is the denial of how Sanders called Hillary out on her bullshit.
You seem to forget, this whole issue is larger than what you see it as. You only see the "I'm a progressive" tag but it isn't just that, it's much deeper. It's the whole chameleon coat she wears and how on EVERY issue Hillary has changed her POV.
You say "But Sanders' supporters don't seem to have the same level of sophistication when it comes to the fact that Bernie will have to work with moderates and conservatives in both parties." yet you don't realize what? Republicans LIKE the guy;
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-lifelong-conservatives-who-love-bernie-sanders/417441/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/22/1395700/-Republicans-for-Bernie-Sanders
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/republicans-for-bernie-sanders/
Now you show me something that says Republicans like Hillary in this sort of manner http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/05/politics/tom-cotton-supports-bernie-sanders/ and this http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/why-surprising-numbers-republicans-have-been-voting-bernie-sanders-vermont and we'll talk. But you won't. Do you know why? Because they along with the majority of America HATE Hillary.
See, they'll never work with Hillary, ever. You want to change shit in the downticket? It's not hard that you need the fire and energy to do so and enthusiasm, only Bernie brings that, not Hillary.
Reality.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)of the nonsense he and his fanatics are spewing through Congress?
This isn't about Hillary Clinton. I'm no supporter of hers, either.
Answer the question:
How does Sanders get anything done with a Republican-dominated Congress?
Don't fucking attack me. Answer the damn question.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Go look up how Bernie worked with Republicans on vet issues. There's your answers.
Yes single payer is non sense, sure. White flag with writing that says "We Will Change Nothing!".
So much for hope & change, eh?
Meanwhile this http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/why-republicans-vote-bernie
See, here's the deal, they'll work with Bernie. They won't work for Hillary when they are busy calling for her impeachment the first day she is in office http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mo-brooks-hillary-clinton_us_5625053de4b0bce3470156eb
Again, I answered you. Even down to your assertion of a Republican lead congress.
Fucking read.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Go back and look at the transcript.
When did he not agree with her.
And as she's talking, he's nodding his head in agreement.
AND...
Bernie Sanders has a history of working with Republicans and conservative Democrats. It's not necessarily **HIS** purity test; it is his fans' test, because I'm willing to bet that should he become president, the time he has to compromise with a Republican-dominated Congress and work with conservative Democrats, you fans will throw him under the bus! Just as you did with Barack Obama.
Everything is hunky dory until Bernie is worse to compromise on his "progressive" principles. I'll be watching as you guys shit on him and turn your backs against him.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)(coffee and laughing and this image do not mix!!)
thank you for making my Saturday morning!!
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...that she decried last night (another position change?) with her "I'm a progressive that gets things done", it's not up to Sanders to define what she means by that. The word and political label progressive has a ton of different meanings and it's never been solidly defined. That being the case, there really isn't anything wrong with Sanders questioning her progressive credentials. Particularly since her record that she brings up so often does not help her case...
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... then his bag better be empty
Sanders bag is not empty and Clinton exposed that last night.
cali
(114,904 posts)Never has. And he has always been opposed to corporate funding of politicians.
My take is you produced an op without putting any thought or effort into it.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... in context and direct words.
She's right, a single comment of hers isn't going to erase her decades of liberal and progressive causes
Many of em with these google key worlds - "sanders tweets what a progrssive is"
jeff47
(26,549 posts)in their attacks against Sanders. That kinda indicates Sanders and his supporters don't actually put much value in purity tests.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which is why you're getting a big "we don't give a fuck about your purity test" from Sanders supporters. It isn't their test. It's yours.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Hillary is not as progressive as Bernie, but I would say that Hillary is progressive on many issues. And I think Bernie acknowledged that last night.
So is Franks, Lewis, Franken, Boxer, and all of our great democratic leaders.
Let's not lose sight of the big goal here, which is a democratic WH.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)this poster seems to not always get the gist of a comment and if it is supporting or against his/her comment.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)increased H-1B visas, and fracking........tell ya one thing - "purity test" has nothing to do with my support of Bernie Sanders.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)No one could pass Sanders' purity test
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)so, because no one is perfect, it doesn't matter who you vote for... noted.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)At anyone who endorses another candidate. Because the purity test has nothing to do with ideology or action. The purity test is do you support Bernie Sanders.
You know what I support? The Big Tent Party. The Fusion Party. The Obama Coalition. Where many different groups come to the table. We are all colors, ages, religions, genders, preferences, incomes. We might have different issues but we all share the core belief in the morality of progressive values. And we all have each other's backs. Always. No purity test. And not dependent on a single politician to save us either. Because we know how to save ourselves.
This thing where we eat our own because they are not 'pure' or have pissing contests on who is the most progressive? Not for me. I wanna work and I wanna beat the GOP. Fuck purity. Fuck the GOP.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... spot on; Sanders is throwing everyone under the bus with his standard
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I've long been dismayed at the issues many or even most members of the progressive caucus support, and the progressive caucus is the best of them. The truth is that even they are to some degree in the pocket of forces who don't have our good interests in mind. They, like most other pols, spend more time on the phone asking corporate donors for donations than they spend governing. This is literally true.
Bernie's campaign is a huge step to correct this. Hillary could have run the primary campaign without such donations, since her main opponent was doing so, but that isn't who she is.
We really have to change how we fund our politicians. Legislated or legal change will be hard-fought, it's one of the things to work on and probably the most important, since it will enable all other reforms.
In the meantime, we need to learn to elect candidates who are willing to run crowd-funded campaigns as Sanders is doing. Only then will they be free to represent us rather than wealthy corporate interests.
Aside from that, we're left with choosing the least bought candidates to find anyone who will stand up for our interests, and that is no way to run a country. The least bought, with few exceptions, are still bought.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)and that is Bernie.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... doesn't have answers to this other than ad homs
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... calling NARAL and PP "establishment" pejoratively is crazy
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's rather priceless that you are attacking the strength of Hillary's opponent to cast it as a weakness.
Purity.
Purity tests.
It's fascinating that honesty is suddenly a horrible thing, and the ability to lie with a straight face, which Hillary has repeatedly done, is a glorious thing.
^ That is why Democratic voters are wary of her ^
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and the text, premise and context of your OP?
I'm trying to figure out what point you are attempting to make.
"No one has purity strength".
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... bag of bad and is intimating her decades long progressive fights mean nothing
When Sanders bag of bad is looked into he's not that much different, just less of it...
He can throw no stones... but has chunked plenty of them at Clinton
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Well, actually, he took a chartered bus to Washington and, as he described it, "sat way way back on the Mall" and listened to him give a speech. But that's kind of like marching with him. And once he did that, he was golden for the rest of his life and could never ever ever be criticized or questioned - especially about anything related to race or civil rights because, after all, Bernie marched with Dr. King.
And then he moved to one of the whitest states in the country.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... when it came to social issues
Somethings not right, his support is narrow and deep while Clinton has double digit leads with blacks, Hispanics, gays, non white poor and women.
There usually aren't candidates with a good message that gets narrow support
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)In HIS case, the narrow support is the fault of black folks who just haven't gotten to know him yet. You know, because, unlike white folk, we're just sitting around clueless, not paying attention to one of the most important elections in our lifetimes . . .
Fortunately, there are plenty of white folks willing to educate us by telling us over and over and over again how great Bernie is for us - and if only we understood as well as they do what is in our best interest, we, too, would "feel the Bern."
cali
(114,904 posts)We can only conclude your claims are what they appear to be- bullshit
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... and in his voting records.
Anyone still asking for links to Sanders own voting records doesn't want to know
cali
(114,904 posts)Ta ta.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... he was brought up
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Full of sound and fury and all that.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your posting style seems very different lately.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... money from wall street
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... ok.. I think I have your number BMUS...
We'll have fun k?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Me:
You:
... money from wall street
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He is just plain honest
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... past actions that he seems to have taken himself in one way or the other.
Do not judge, lest the be judged
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Whether it be over a country or a political party.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)...but I think was very presidential last night and won the debate handily.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)but I was impressed by BOTH our candidates last night.
We Dems have a win-win situation insofar as our primary candidates are concerned.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I really don't.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)are two things particularly:
1) He's getting the inequality and basic unfairness of much of the current system we live under spot on, IMO, and putting those memes out there to excellent effect. That should encourage more Dems in general to speak to their base about these and vote accordingly.
2) He's fired up the youth vote almost as much as President Obama did and I love their enthusiasm. I hope that they will continue to participate in politics no matter what happens with Bernie's candidacy. Politics is not just one Presidential election every four years. Politics = paying attention and working towards the desired goals ALL THE TIME. Note: Hillary also has enthusiastic and highly committed young supporters, although perhaps not as numerous in her base so far.
But I sincerely believe that Bernie won't know what hit him when the GOP spin and smear machine turns up to full volume as it will definitely do if he is a candidate in the GE. He could be pure as the driven snow and still be affected adversely. The GOP are truth-challenged and will simply make sh** up.
One thing about Hillary: the smear attack dogs have been out there for years and have been discredited every time - except for Bill's stupid sexual hijinks. There is not much new under the sun that they can throw at her. I'm sure they'll continue to make sh** up, but the GOP has cried wolf on Hillary too many times for that sh** to be as effective against her.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)their arrogance and condescension.
Ben Jealous endorsed Sanders today, and many black people shrugged.
First, the NAACP doesn't have the prominence in the black community as it once did, especially not for young black people.
Second, what is most frustrating and insulting is the notion that just because there are black prominent figures who support Sanders, now we Negroes need to fall in line....because if these black figures support Sanders, then Sanders must surely be o.k., right? WRONG!!
Black voters do not need white liberals to tell them what to do.
Black voters do not need other black liberals to tell them what to do.
Black voters can:
1. Think for themselves
2. Speak for themselves
3. Act for themselves
The more Sanders' cheerleaders arrogantly pull these tactics, the more black people will continue to get turned off.
I, as a former Bernie supporter, am testament to this!
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... because black voters hear "Obama bad" from Sanders when it comes to Clinton's critiques which can be applied to Obama.
but Sanders is ALSO turning off a ton of his own allies in congress cause they're not that far removed from Sanders pejorative "establishment" meme but Sanders has been in office for 30 years!!!
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)political experience and have not been in Washington for decades.
Sanders, on the other hand, was a Representative from a very liberal congressional district and therefore never had to worry about representing diverse constituencies. When he became a U.S. Senator, again, Vermont, like Iowa and New Hampshire are very homogenous states.
Let's see how well he does in more diverse settings. And that's not only with black Americans, but with much more conservative constituencies--even on the Democratic side.
I grew up in the South. Even the more moderate to liberal Democrats are to the right of Sanders.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... before now but now that he is going to be paid attention to a person who's been in DC for 30 something years and running as anti establishment is going to sound crazy.
The MSM also keep touting Sanders national numbers ... Sanders numbers are mostly with the young and white males... SC will be an eye opener.
If IA is an indicator he'll be blown away...
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)The assertion that he's not part of Washington D.C. establishment is laughable at best, hypocritical at worst.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Your posts here have been great.
I actually thought the Ben Jealous endorsement was a good catch for Sanders but it was not no damn where near the "OMG!! OMG!!! The firewall is COMMMMMING DOOOWWWN!11" stupidity that more than a few folks on this site made it out to be.
But I'm still cracking up at all the folks jumping up and down over a black guy in SC that endorsed Sanders and 2/3 of the thread didn't know who the man was, or if the man was a State Senator, a national Senator, a State Rep or what but for some unknown reason, it was still EXTREMELY good news!
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)It's a hoot watching people get this excited about certain black people endorsing Sanders because that means THE FIREWALL IS COMING DOWN - when black folks' reaction is "Who he?"
Number23
(24,544 posts)But he had melanin and was endorsing Sanders. That was apparently all that mattered. Who the man actually was was 100% IMMATERIAL to the "revolution."
I predicted all of this would happen about 7 months ago and Lord KNOWS these folks have rendered my prophesy true in great and ever so hilarious abundance.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=18545
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Just like most white folk didn't know who Cornel West or Tavis Smiley were UNTIL they started bashing President Obama. Hell, they couldn't even correctly spell West's name or Tavis's first name (as evidenced by referring to him as "Travis" .
What could be more offensive or insulting that throwing so-called prominent black people onstage to lecture other black folk?
They are pathetic that they can't even see how insulting that is---as if black people can't fucking think for themselves.
Bernie Sanders is simply not connecting with the vast majority of black voters. Or even Hispanic/Latino voters. This is something that they'll have to come to terms with.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... be the gate keeper on what is progressive or not by labeling Clinton and other people pejoratively the "establishment" and intimating Clinton would be influenced by Wall Street.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)But he may have a bullshit test and hill failed
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... and that was established last night
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
LexVegas
(6,063 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... his "establishment" meme seeing Obama is in the establishment and losses with PoC in IA and SC will be significant enough to indicate Sanders isn't reaching the people his revolution is supposed to be for.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Iggy Knorr
(247 posts)does not pass my purity test.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)LexVegas
(6,063 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts).... 7 so people can have a cooling off period.
7 Day waiting would possible been a factor during the SC church shootings
Yeager29
(26 posts)Sanders is not pure but he is reliably consistent in his policy and positions. Clinton is adrift on the ocean saying what needs to be said and assuming whatever positions are trendy. She's an unreliable political hack in search of power. Where is EW when we need her?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... and intimates she can be influenced by 1/30th of her yearly sallary
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)This will back fire big time.
Yeager29
(26 posts)He is correct in what he's saying, it's just that the truth is ugly here and he is causing fractures. Unfortunately. But you expect him to play ball anyway. With the establishment. Hillary is a former first lady, senator, secstate, and an advisor to the who's who on democratic capitol hill. You don't get any more establishment than that. Bernie is just a thorn to the dnc. I want more than the staus quo establishment has given us.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... has never done any of those things Clinton has done in any way
and that's not true.
Someone who's been in government for 30 years is status qou...
Him saying the same thing people on the left have been saying for generations but saying it with anger and passion doesn't make what he's saying passible.
He proffered that Mitch Michonal will look outside his window and see a lot of people and that would change his Mitch's mind...
That's not the way the GOP has acted in the past... they don't care about a trillion people sitting outside of their window
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I love the smell of flop sweat.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Brady bill multiple times like St Bernie did?
Not to mention voting for the MIC via the F-35 boondoggle.
And protecting Big Business gun manufacturers from bereaved families who suffer from unrestricted firearms?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Response to uponit7771 (Original post)
Post removed
Iggy Knorr
(247 posts)Squinch
(50,949 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)Under her definition bush was a progressive, because he got things done.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Can I take it?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Seems your entire premise is a figment of your imagination or you are just being dishonest. Perfect for Camp Weathervane.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... going to claim who is a progressive or not
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I asked the person making the false claim: YOU.
Link it. Or be proved the fool.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)...not literal one?!
really?
bookmarked
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Back it up or be the fool.
Simple.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... given to no one... that the litmus originated from Sanders mouth and not from a website or a "Are You A Liberal" test book let.
you know what...
I'm not going to go down this track, its silly at best ..
Feign indignation all you want... please make an op out of it and I'll bookmark that too k?
thx
99Forever
(14,524 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Got it. You came up empty. Noted.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Here's some ACTUAL facts for you to chew on.
Get back to me when you have something ACTUAL to counter it with.
Game, set, match.
Bu bye.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)Hillary should stress that speaking of liberal (or "progressive" ideas is one thing. But you have to be able to accomplish something to mean anything.
Heres A List Of Hillary Clintons Accomplishments
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/13/heres-a-list-of-hillary-clintons-accomplishments-so-quit-saying-she-doesnt-have-any/
◾ Even though her major initiative, the Clinton healthcare plan, failed (due to Republican obstruction), you cannot deny that it laid ground for what we have today, the Affordable Healthcare Act, something Clinton supports and would continue.
◾ She played a leading role in the development of State Childrens Health Insurance Program, which provides the much-needed state support for children whose parents cannot afford nor provide them with adequate healthcare coverage.
◾ She was also instrumental in the creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act.
◾ Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
◾ She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it Gulf War Syndrome.
◾ At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
◾ She was instrumental in securing over $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center redevelopment.
◾ Took a leading role in the investigation of health consequences of first responders and drafted the first bill to compensate and offer the health services our first responders deserve (Clintons successor in the Senate, Kirsten Gillibrand, passed the bill).
◾ Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
◾ Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
◾ Was a major proponent of sensible diplomacy which brought about a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, and brokered human rights with Burma.
These are not all of her accomplishments. Her activism on behalf of women a children across the world is renowned. Her activism for raising the minimum wage and combating climate change is stellar. You do not have to support what she does or stands for. But do not say she doesnt have any accomplishments. The conservatives who say this are the ones who are pushing for Ted Cruz who brought on a $24 billion shut down. That, to them, is an accomplishment?
[font size="3"]As has been noted here before, The Sanders campaign, sadly, does a good job of parroting the GOP's anti-Hillary disinformation...[/font]
George Will Pretends Hillary Clinton Has No Achievements
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/29/george-will-pretends-hillary-clinton-has-no-ach/203078
George Will ignored Hillary Clinton's substantial accomplishments as secretary of state, senator, and first lady in order to suggest that her support from Democrats is due solely to "identity politics."
In his latest Washington Post column, Will describes the Democratic Party as "adrift in identity politics, cling[ing], as shipwrecked sailors do to floating debris, to this odd feminist heroine," and writes that Clinton's "performance in governance has been defined by three failures." Will goes on to cherry-pick instances from Clinton's career, ignoring her achievements in the White House, Senate, and at State to portray her as a failure.
In citing Clinton's time as first lady, he omits, for example, Clinton's role in the passage of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which expanded health insurance for children in lower-income households. Will also ignores her pivotal role in the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which eased processes allowing the removal of children from abusive situations.
Clinton also helped to create the Department of Justice's Office on Violence Against Women and used her platform to raise the issue of abuse against women internationally, telling the United Nations' Fourth World Conference on Women in China that, "It is time for us to say here in Beijing, and for the world to hear, that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights."
(more)
more on Hillary Clinton's list of accomplishments:
12 Hillary Clinton Accomplishments That Her 2016 Rivals Can't Match
http://www.bustle.com/articles/76900-12-hillary-clinton-accomplishments-that-her-2016-rivals-cant-match
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)what the heck are you talking about?
That debate was two hours long.
Maybe if you clarified what exactly you are talking about??