2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBombshell CNN Investigation: Bernie Sanders has Raised Millions From Lobbyist and Big Business
CAUGHT IN THE ULTIMATE HYPOCRISY
Bernie Sanders complained on the campaign trail Friday that dialing for dollars "affects your entire being."
What he didn't mention: The Vermont senator and presidential candidate is a prolific fundraiser himself and has regularly benefited from the Democratic Party apparatus.
HMMM I THOUGHT HE JUST HAD SMALL DONORS
In recent years, Sanders has been billed as one of the hosts for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee's retreats for the "Majority Trust" -- an elite group of top donors who give more than $30,000 per year -- at Martha's Vineyard in the summer and Palm Beach, Florida, in the winter. CNN has obtained invitations that listed Sanders as a host for at least one Majority Trust event in each year since 2011.
The retreats are typically attended by 100 or more donors who have either contributed the annual legal maximum of $33,400 to the DSCC, raised more than $100,000 for the party or both.
Sanders has based his presidential campaign on a fire-and-brimstone critique of a broken campaign finance system -- and of Hillary Clinton for her reliance on big-dollar Wall Street donors. But Sanders is part of that system, and has helped Democrats court many of the same donors.
IT GETS WORSE
1. Sanders attended a fundraiser at the Cambridge, Massachusetts home of Abby Rockefeller -- a member of the same family whose wealth he had once proposed confiscating.
2. Two years later, when then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama was being nominated at the Democratic National Convention in 2008, Sanders was among the senators who met with Sen. Chuck Schumer's "Legacy Circle" donors who had given the legal maximum to the DSCC five years in a row or $500,000 over their lifetimes.
A lot more of the breakdown on Sanders's hypocrisy http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1480576
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Just last week, the reigning "Get Bernie" complaint was that he has not done so!
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)questionseverything
(9,654 posts)mcar
(42,331 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)lame. But yeah, nice try.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Bernie is awful because he has never helped the Democrats and is just an outsider.
or
Bernie is awful because he participated and helped out in fundraising activities fopr Democrats.
Can we settle on a meme?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...and helping others raise it for them.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)that sticks?
Metric System
(6,048 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)some ice cream instead???
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)He rails against speaking fees let me tell you this is America and nothing wrong with Making money
If I could get large speaking fees I'd say where is the podium ?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)is anything but a conflict of interest.
Clinton taking huge direct deposits from the same corporations she now swears she will reign in is a huge conflict of interest.
cali
(114,904 posts)And that's it.
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)and the facts so far do not line up with the article's spin
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)trying to dispell the shit their g. grandpa did because unlike him and someone else I can think of they have consciences.
cali
(114,904 posts)e
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)Did more for our state than all the ones after him combined.
Mike__M
(1,052 posts)The oft-repeated argument that Clinton raises money for other Democrats, but Sanders does not, is totally false.
We'll keep this bookmarked, then. Thanks.
...that was my take on it also.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)1. Abigail Aldrich "Abby" Rockefeller (born 1943) is a US ecologist, feminist, and member of the Rockefeller family
She is a leftist, not a corporate titan.........Her DNA does not make her a bad person. She donated to him because of his politics.
2. Bernie took money that he raised from donors like me, and probably not you, and donated that money to the DSCC....
to help them elect other Senators.
This is the opposite of hypocrisy and corruption.
You more than merely fail on this one......you have actually shown that Bernie supported other democrats at least five years in a row.
Dretownblues
(253 posts)We must accept all of these posts at face value.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Dretownblues
(253 posts)When all of says is he made a speach and raised money for democrats. Pretty weak "bombshell"
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Dretownblues
(253 posts)This is getting confusing
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Dretownblues
(253 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)He never said he didn't know these people.
As the article states... IT GETS WORSE - yes, this article is crap.
livetohike
(22,143 posts)There is no way those campaigns did not include big donors.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)he didn't have one tv ad and he visited houses and voters. That's how he wins because people want him to stay on. Unlike someone else.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I doubt any Democrat enjoys taking money, even from small donors, but the system has forced them to do it. Campaign finance reform is the ONLY way to stop these offenses.
cali
(114,904 posts)All you have to do is go to open secrets. He has never taken corporate money.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)were lies?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Just facts that hadn't evolved yet.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)it attacks Bernie for taking money from the DSCC......He was donating to the DSCC
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Looks like he helped other candidates raise money in the past. Seems nice of him to help out like that.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)H2O Man
(73,537 posts)Jarqui
(10,125 posts)I could only go back to 1998 - look at his top donors
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=1998&type=I&cid=N00000528&newMem=N&recs=20
2000
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2000&type=I&cid=N00000528&newMem=N&recs=20
2002
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2002&type=I&cid=N00000528&newMem=N&recs=20
2010
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?type=C&cid=N00000528&newMem=N&cycle=2010
2012
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2012&type=C&cid=N00000528&newMem=N&recs=20
Sorry, I'm just not seeing sinister stuff in campaign contributions there.
He couldn't have racked up $10 mil/ yr in speaking fees like Hillary because his networth (including his house) is about $500,000
Something doesn't add up to the article's spin
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)Hillary's campaign schedule JUST for the month of February:
http://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/
February 5, 2016 Boston, Massachusetts Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 6, 2016 Rock Hill, South Carolina Women for Hillary Chelsea Clinton
February 10, 2016 Planco, Mexico City, Mexico Fundraiser José Villarreal
February 10, 2016 Mexico City, Mexico Fundraiser José Villarreal
February 11, 2016 Birmingham, Michigan Fundraiser Chelsea Clinton
February 11, 2016 Milwaukee, Wisconsin Democratic Debate (PBS) Hillary Clinton
February 12, 2016 Milwaukee, Wisconsin Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 12, 2016 St. Paul, Minnesota Humphrey-Mondale Dinner Hillary Clinton
February 12, 2016 Providence, Rhode Island Fundraiser Chelsea Clinton
February 12, 2016 Cincinnati, Ohio Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 12, 2016 Newark, New Jersey Fundraiser Senator Cory Booker & Capricia Penavic Marshall
February 12, 2016 Grand Rapids, Michigan Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 13, 2016 Atlanta, Georgia Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 13, 2016 Munich, Germany Fundraiser Melanne Verveer
February 13, 2016 Denver, Colorado Democratic Party Hillary Clinton
February 15, 2016 Palm Beach, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 15, 2016 Miami, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 15, 2016 Boca Raton, Florida Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 16, 2016 New York City, New York Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 16, 2016 McLean, Virginia Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 17, 2016 Chicago, Illinois Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 17, 2016 Chicago, Illinois Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 17, 2016 New York City, New York Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 17, 2016 Brooklyn, New York Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 17, 2016 New York City, New York Fundraiser Bill Clinton
February 18, 2016 Las Vegas, Nevada Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 21, 2016 Atherton, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 21, 2016 Piedmont, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 21, 2016 Washington, DC Fundraiser John Podesta
February 22, 2016 Los Angeles, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 22, 2016 Charleston, South Carolina Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 22, 2016 Los Angeles, California Fundraiser Hillary Clinton
February 22, 2016 Washington, DC Fundraiser John Podesta
February 22, 2016 Washington, DC Fundraiser Ann OLeary
February 23, 2016 London, England Fundraiser Chelsea Clinton
February 23, 2016 London, England Fundraiser Chelsea Clinton
February 23, 2016 Washington, DC Fundraiser Ann OLeary
February 23, 2016 Washington, DC Fundraiser Jake Sullivan & Lona Valmoro
February 25, 2016 London, England Fundraiser Evan Bayh
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)The responses thoroughly debunk the dog shit diary and the CNN piece.
bobswern Little Feb 05 · 05:01:57 PM
So, Bernie raised money for the Democratic Party, NOT himself, or his own affiliated organizations! Got it! What this means is that this entire diarylike so many diaries from this diaristis loaded with lies and deceptive, grossly FALSE innuendos. I do believe that joelgp get the award for publishing THE MOST CONSISTENLY DISHONEST DIARIES IN THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.
According to CNNs special sleuths, those get-togethers that Sanders co-hosted for the DSCC since 2011 brought him yuuuuge rewards . . .
He got a hand from the party in 1996, when Rob Engel, then the political director for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, pushed a Democratic contender out of the race for the House seat Sanders held as an independent.
. . . fifteen years earlier.
clicked on this to find there was no there there. In any event, the diarys conclusions are a big reach given the lameness of the facts presented. The Rockerfeller fundraiser? Meetings with the DSCC? so guilt by association I suppose (because this significant group also received funds by banks, which has nothing to do with Sanders). Obviously, this isnt a real issue to the OP, but just an attempt to strain to paint Sanders with a brush that fits most other candidates but barely marks him.
puakev Feb 05 · 04:55:42 PM
Sorry, but suggesting that Sanders is somehow as much a captive of big business and lobbyists is about as convincing as Clinton claiming her vote for the Iraq War was not really a vote for the Iraq War. This kind of stuff really doesnt help your candidate, it just makes you look desperate.
kbman Feb 05 · 05:26:34 PM
You have a stunning amount of intellectual dishonesty packed into this diary. Starting with the claim that he voted to deregulate Wall Street. The truth is that Hillarys current top economic adviser, Gary Gensler, slipped language into an omnibus spending bill which had already passed both houses of Congress and was in committee negotiations to iron out differences between the House and Senate versions. His new language is what made it impossible to regulate derivatives.
This was a must-pass spending bill to fund the government, and was over 11,000 pages long. Claiming that Sanders is responsible for voting for Wall Street deregulation because he was unaware of a few paragraphs changed in an enormous catch-all spending bill, changes which were never brought to anyones attention by design, is quite disingenuous. It is made farcical by the fact that, not only was it Hillarys current adviser who did the dirty deed, it was her husband Bill who colluded with Republican Phil Gramm of Texas to put the language there in the first place. And it was also her husband Bill who signed that bill into law.
So please joelgp, please keep up your thoroughly dishonest hit pieces on Bernie Sanders. You have been flinging poo at him since the campaign began, and yet your aim has not improved one iota, nor has your judgement. Proceed.
Response to ProudToBeLiberal (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)> .....donors who have either contributed the annual legal maximum of $33,400 to the DSCC
> ....Sanders is part of that system, and has helped Democrats court many of the same donors....
> Sanders attended..............
> in 2008, Sanders was among the senators who met with Sen. Chuck Schumer's "Legacy Circle" donors who had given the legal
maximum to the DSCC
Where does it say HE took or Kept any of this money? It all seems to have gone to the DSCC
This is really CHICKENSHIT desperation out of the Clinton folks. d
I've been on jury's here where whiny Clinton people have alerted - never mind. This is pathetic crap and quite Rovian
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This is what you call a bombshell? Where does it say he took money from them?
Don't you guys ever get tired of making fools out of yourselves?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)None of what is even alleged here speaks to what Bernie's issue is.
If you are going to run a hit piece, at least have it TRY and make some sense.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)...
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Because that would really be a bombshell.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Pardon me while I yawn.
Then laugh.
Then file my nails.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'm afraid for him ....very very afraid
thereismore
(13,326 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)For one this: "The retreats are typically attended by 100 or more donors who have either contributed the annual legal maximum of $33,400 to the DSCC, raised more than $100,000 for the party or both" is not raising money for Sanders.
And hilariously this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that Hillary supporters are so angry he doesn't do - help the party.
When he does he gets trashed.
Excellent.
Another hilarious thing is you have to go back to 2006 - a decade ago - to find him at a solitary fundraiser full of the elite throwing cash at a candidate.
Once every 10 years? Imagine Hillary going a decade without her lobbyist money.
djean111
(14,255 posts)The memes are getting more and more lame.
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)I'm not seeing anything surprising. Union donations are not enormous but there are several unions that back him. I'm not seeing anything sinister.
In 2006, he had 53 donations of the max $5,000 - Hillary's HillPAC was one of them (donated twice). Here they are:
$5,000 on 2005-09-23 from CARPENTERS LEGISLATIVE IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE UNITED BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND JOINERS of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-22 from MACHINISTS NON PARTISAN POL LEAGUE OF THE INT'L ASSN OF MACHINISTS & AEROSPACE WORKERS of MD (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-22 from MACHINISTS NON PARTISAN POL LEAGUE OF THE INT'L ASSN OF MACHINISTS & AEROSPACE WORKERS of MD (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-10-21 from DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA PAC of NY
$5,000 on 2005-12-21 from UNITED FOOD & COMMERCIAL WORKERS INTERNATIONAL UNION ACTIVE BALLOT CLUB of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-09-11 from UNITED FOOD & COMMERCIAL WORKERS INTERNATIONAL UNION ACTIVE BALLOT CLUB of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-09-13 from KIDSPAC of MA (Human Rights)
$5,000 on 2006-10-27 from UNITED FOOD & COMMERCIAL WORKERS INTERNATIONAL UNION ACTIVE BALLOT CLUB of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-07-19 from KIDSPAC of MA (Human Rights)
$5,000 on 2005-12-05 from DISTRICT NO. 1-PCD MEBA POLITICAL FUND (MEBA-PAF) of DC (Transportation Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-04-06 from NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA PAC of DC (Abortion Policy/Pro-Choice)
$5,000 on 2005-11-02 from NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA PAC of DC (Abortion Policy/Pro-Choice)
$5,000 on 2005-08-31 from CWA-COPE POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS COMMITTEE of DC (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-02 from CWA-COPE POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS COMMITTEE of DC (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-09-29 from AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR JUSTICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (AAJ PAC) of DC (Lawyers/Law Firms)
$5,000 on 2006-05-10 from GREEN MOUNTAIN PAC of VT (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-09-19 from ACTION COMMITTEE FOR RURAL ELECTRIFICATION (ACRE) - NATL. RURAL ELEC. COOPERATIVE ASSN. of VA (Electric Utilities)
$5,000 on 2005-09-13 from UNITED BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS/JOINERS OF AMER NEW ENGLAND REG CARPENTERS LEGIS EMP CMTE of CT (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-08-30 from CAP-PAC SEPARATE SEGREGATED FUND OF NATIONAL COMMUNITY ACTION FOUNDATION INC. of DC (Non-Profit Institutions)
$5,000 on 2006-09-15 from NEA FUND FOR CHILDREN AND PUBLIC EDUCATION of DC (Public Sector Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-16 from UNITED STEELWORKERS POLITICAL ACTION FUND of PA (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-16 from UNITED STEELWORKERS POLITICAL ACTION FUND of PA (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-03-20 from INTL. UNION OF BRICKLAYERS & ALLIED CRAFTWORKERS of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-08-31 from INTL. UNION OF BRICKLAYERS & ALLIED CRAFTWORKERS of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-03-27 from AFL-CIO COPE POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS COMMITTEE of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-12-20 from GREEN MOUNTAIN PAC of VT (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-09-28 from SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL UNION COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION (SEIU COPE) of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-04-21 from SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL UNION COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION (SEIU COPE) of DC (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-04-26 from UNITE HERE TIP CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE of NY (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-10-11 from UNITE HERE TIP CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE of NY (Misc Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-06-22 from CARPENTERS LEGISLATIVE IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE UNITED BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND JOINERS of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-09-15 from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FEDERAL CREDIT UNIONS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE of VA (Credit Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-08-02 from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FEDERAL CREDIT UNIONS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE of VA (Credit Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-04-04 from AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION PAC of DC (Transportation Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-09-13 from DRIVE - DEMOCRAT REPUBLICAN INDEPENDENT VOTER EDUCATION - PAC FOR INT'L BROTHERHOOD OF T of DC (Transportation Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-12-16 from HOPEFUND INC. of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-05-25 from CREDIT UNION LEGISLATIVE ACTION COUNCIL OF CUNA of DC (Credit Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-09-13 from DRIVE - DEMOCRAT REPUBLICAN INDEPENDENT VOTER EDUCATION - PAC FOR INT'L BROTHERHOOD OF T of DC (Transportation Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-09-19 from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE of IL (Real Estate)
$5,000 on 2006-08-25 from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE of IL (Real Estate)
$5,000 on 2005-12-16 from HOPEFUND INC. of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-05-05 from ENGINEERS POLITICAL EDUCATION COMMITTEE (EPEC)/INTERNATIONAL UNION OF OPERATING ENGINEERS of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-04-03 from AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS AFL-CIO COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION of DC (Public Sector Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-10-18 from INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION of DC (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2006-05-04 from INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION of DC (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-06-15 from INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION of DC (Industrial Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-07-26 from SEARCHLIGHT LEADERSHIP FUND of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2005-05-18 from AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR JUSTICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (AAJ PAC) of DC (Lawyers/Law Firms)
$5,000 on 2005-07-26 from SEARCHLIGHT LEADERSHIP FUND of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2005-12-01 from IMPACT of NY (Democratic/Liberal)
$5,000 on 2005-12-08 from PAC FOR A CHANGE of CA (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2005-06-29 from UNITED ASSOCIATION POLITICAL EDUCATION COMMITTEE of DC (Building Trade Unions)
$5,000 on 2005-11-29 from DEDICATED AMERICANS FOR THE SENATE AND HOUSE PAC of SD
$5,000 on 2006-03-15 from HILL PAC of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-03-15 from HILL PAC of DC (Democratic leadership)
$5,000 on 2006-10-25 from MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION of CA (Democratic/Liberal)
I don't see a problem there.
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)In terms of Democratic Party contributions:
In 2006, he got this:
DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE 03/29/2006 $37,300
In 2012, he got $800 from a state Democratic party
Here's his top donors since 1989:
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=Career&cid=n00000528
Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $105,000
Teamsters Union $93,700
National Education Assn $89,242
United Auto Workers $79,750
United Food & Commercial Workers Union $72,500
Communications Workers of America $68,000
Laborers Union $64,000
Carpenters & Joiners Union $62,000
National Assn of Letter Carriers $61,000
American Assn for Justice $60,500
American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $58,198
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $53,100
United Transportation Union $48,500
Sheet Metal Workers Union $47,000
Operating Engineers Union $46,100
Service Employees International Union $44,014
UNITE HERE $42,875
United Steelworkers $41,750
American Postal Workers Union $37,700
American Federation of Teachers $36,112
His big crime is he got a lot of support from unions. WOW! BigeffinDeal
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Jarqui
(10,125 posts)Possible there's an executive name I missed but I doubt it
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Here's even more damning evidence against that fiendish man!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1140849
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)the cap on SS for the wealthy getting away with not paying their fair share.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,960 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]