2016 Postmortem
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Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Bernie can't touch it really without being accused of being a sore loser, but incidents like the one above SHOULD be investigated.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)as they thought they could get away with. Yeah, this is a fucking primary and It Ain't Over Yet! Thankfully the Register is investigating because the Hillary Supporter McGuire runnning the Caucus sure as hell cannot be trusted...
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)We folks outside of Iowa need to sit back and see what shakes out.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Are they going to pull different versions of this crap in every state?
Trampling Democracy.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)Election over site team to come to each state for the Dem primaries.
We are not fighting the repugs yet, but we are fighting against some very motivated people who are desperate to get Hillary nominated.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Hopefully, the scrutiny the Iowa caucus is receiving will serve as a warning that upcoming primaries and caucuses will be closely watched for irregularities.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)their oversite with as much recording and documention of results and issues at every polling station.
If they think one monitor is needed, show up with 2.
If something isn't right, record it on the spot.
Play by the rules and be aware of the rules before the day of the primary/caucus
I just donated again to the campaign so the money keeps flowing so they can fund as much support as possible for each voting day. Not just to GOTV, but to protect the integrity of every vote before during and after.
Takket
(21,565 posts)Votes so they could be recounted later. Someone needs to invent such a system.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Paulie
(8,462 posts)Volaris
(10,270 posts)and global thermonuclear war.
(But that's feature, not a bug. Just trust us we know what we're doing).
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Leaving physical evidence that could be counted and recounted over and over.
Snarkoleptic
(5,997 posts)for most of the really important processes and institutions.
The answer is more democracy and transparency!
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Vinca
(50,270 posts)This is very stinky.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)She can be trusted, right?
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)It's MINE! I've EARNED it and NOBODY will take it away from me! SCREW YOU: It doesn't work that way! By the way, the more your campaign operates in this manner, the more you will turn off voters and it may cost you in November!
TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)The county delegates don't count. Only the whatever-the-other-thing-was delegates count.
beemer27
(460 posts)I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that the Clintons would be involved in anything underhanded!
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,960 posts)But this is going to look very bad for the Iowa Dem Party and cast a pall over Clinton. She shouldn't have declared victory so fast.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)And the State Chair shamelessly in the bag for Hillary as her fanatic license plate shows. Anyone can slap a bumper sticker on to show support but to get personalized tags reflecting your choice...Well that is pretty strong support.
Why is that chair standing in the way of an audit? Because of the fear that the truth will come out? - That maybe Bernie actually won Iowa? It was so very close. An audit is reasonable.
We deserve fair honest elections. If it was honest than an audit might demonstrate that and the numbers would be the same. The will and the trust of the people being abused only makes the people more wary and less trusting of a corrupt system and yes, because HRC2016 License Plate Person is standing in the way of the audit, it creates the perception in the minds of many that Hillary is part and parcel of that corrupt system.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)To betray the public trust this way.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)this needs to be audited.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)they are trying to grap a couple of delegates here and there in each state. bernie is now raising more money than hillary and is committed to winning. he isn't going anywhere. and as much as I would like to see him win by blowouts, it will likely be close in many states. with apportioned delegates, they will likely have to take this to convention. if team estsblishmentdem can shave enough delegstes along the way to keep bernie from getting the needed total, they will try and use supers to steal it for hillary. it will turn into holy hell on the convention floor and will likely ultimately fail due to the public outcry, but i don't think for a second they are going to just sit back and wait for bernie to win the nom.
the future of corporatocracy depends on it...nothing to chance for them.
1939
(1,683 posts)What is important is to keep the pot stirred with the meme that Clinton is a liar and a cheat.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)Use the principle of Qui Bono
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)That's what happened here.
There have been at least 4 verifiable instances, reported by the media--where Clinton was given an additional delegate and Bernie had one taken away.
These are not clerical errors.
There has never been an instance in the Iowa Caucuses where this has happened. Never. We had record turnout in Iowa in 2008--240,000 people participated in the Democratic Caucuses. This year was 170,000--and suddenly, our caucuses are turned into a circus.
I think Bernie won. I think we'll eventually find out that Bernie won. Errors in Clinton's favor have been found. More will be found.
They're attempting to deny him the momentum of an Iowa win, going in to NH, NV and SC.
It's obvious. So helpful when the Chair of the Democratic Party (who is the person controlling all aspects of the caucus) has a license plate on her car that reads, "HRC2016".
Our caucuses were fine. They were quirky. But there was never any cheating, never 100+ precincts left without Precinct Captains, never any discrepancies like this that favored one person.
Hillary Clinton and her IDP cronies are a disgrace. Everyone in Iowa knows what happened here. It's laughable.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)At least if the latest national polls are any indication.
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)In the end, as Bernie basically said at the debate, they're talking about 1 or 2 delegates out of about 2,382 needed to win... it is very unlikely that it will make any difference. What mattered was bragging rights and the oustanding press that would have come out of an Iowa win. It could have given him even MORE momentum this week. But after NH votes on Tuesday, few people will care about Iowa. You can't get back that week of terrific press he would have gotten, that week has gone.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)NH, NV and SC.
They tried to deny Sanders the win.
The Des Moines Register should be credited for coming out in a very public way to call foul. Their entire editorial board came out with a scathing Op-Ed and they are the reason that Andy "license plate" McGuire is reviewing and correcting errors.
Initially she said the result was final. PERIOD. What a horrible human being. She's hitched her star to a cheater. She'll go down in flames.
It will be shown that Sanders won. But the key is...when? The pressure is on. I hope this is resolved within the next ten days.
There should be no reason for a large delay. The results of each precinct caucus are public at this website. Between the Iowans who are coming forward (4 thus far) to spotlight where Sanders was cheated a delegate and Clinton awarded a delegate that she didn't earn, it's not going to take that long. Sanders also holds discrepancies in his hands--as his precinct captains sent Sanders the results of their caucuses.
Thank God Bernie was thinking ahead.
And Goddamn the Iowa Democratic Party, Andy McGuire and their cheating.
The fallout from their antics will hurt our caucuses, our state, our party strength in our state. Most importantly, Clinton will be hurt and will be seen as a cheater. The outcome they sought to steal will end up sinking everything around them--including Hillary Clinton. Big-time karma coming their way.
Gene Debs
(582 posts)irritated or exasperated when that issue raises its head is pointless, don't you think?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)It's a Clinton Family Tradition.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)demmiblue
(36,850 posts)Somebody transposed those numbers.
Good on him for keeping it honest.
I wonder who transposed those numbers?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)is that the Iowa Democratic Party did it.
Absolutely no question.
When a caucus is completed, the Precinct Chair reports the final result to the Iowa Democratic Party.
They either call in the results, or they send in the results via laptop.
The Iowa Democratic Party receives the numbers that have been reported to them. The IDP had to flip those numbers.
No other explanation.
The good news is. The Iowa Democratic Party results are public. They've always been public every year. Precinct captains and Precinct chairs are checking those numbers. Some are finding discrepancies. Here is a link to the IDP website that lists every precinct result and the delegates apportioned. As Iowans find discrepancies, more are coming forward. It's only a matter of time before Bernie is declared the winner. http://iowademocrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2016-IDP-Final-Precinct-Caucus-Results-PrecinctCandidateResults1.pdf
Bernie also did a smart thing before the Iowa caucuses. He instructed his precinct captains to send him (via email or via phone) the results of their precincts caucuses. Sanders is finding discrepancies. He's also finding instances where the numbers were flipped.
This isn't over. Sanders will be declared the winner. It's just a matter of time.
They tried to cheat. Team Clinton sucks.
demmiblue
(36,850 posts)Good thing the results are public. Which begs the question, if they did try to cheat, how in the world did they think they would get away with it?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...but the same thing happened with Santorum in 2012. Their goal was to deny Santorum the momentum going into NH that the Iowa win would have given him.
It's likely that this is what Team Clinton, Andy "license plate" McGuire and the rest of the Iowa Democratic Party were going for.
If you watch the results coming in on caucus night, you see Clinton ahead. That was expected, due to the rural and smaller precincts finishing their caucuses before the urban and college towns--that handily broke for Bernie.
So, the numbers gap keeps dwindling and Bernie's numbers keep going up. Until the very end. Then, everything stops. Clinton is declared the winner, even with remaining precincts that haven't reported numbers.
Then, you've got a razor-thin win for Clinton and an Iowa Democratic party, led by License Plate, who refuses any sort of audit or examination of the results, AT ALL.
I think they thought they could get away with it. I think they flipped some numbers, in Clinton's favor--as the only way to cover up what happened. They hoped that no one would notice. That has failed.
I think the IDP, headed by "License Plate", stole the caucus from Bernie outright. They then flipped numbers, thinking that no one would call them on it. And if they were called on it, they didn't think much attention would be paid. They didn't anticipate the entire Des Moines Register Editorial Board declaring a farce.
Regardless of all of this, Clinton gets the benefit of denying Bernie the momentum of winning the caucuses going forward. That's huge. They probably consider that a success. Sadly, it is. Just like with Santorum in 2012. The problem is, that Bernie is going to win NH unlike Santorum. Bernie is ahead 7 points more than Obama was in NV at this time--and Obama won more delegates in 08. The handwriting is on the wall.
One fallout of all of this is something people aren't really discussing. The Clinton camp came into Iowa and totally fatfucked our caucuses. People can make fun of how odd and quirky they are. However, this is a transparent vote by show of hands. We didn't have widespread, horrific mayhem in any other caucus year. In 2008 when he had record turnout, there were no problems. This year, there were 100+ precincts that were unstaffed with a Precinct Chair. The Iowa Democratic Party is responsible for having PCs at each precinct. There was widespread cheating, antics and bullshit that went on that never went on before.
We all know how Hillary and the establishment feels about caucuses. They're "creatures of the extreme" don't you know. The attendees lean left, especially in Iowa. You can't steal a caucus as easily as you can steal the voting machines. What they did required a lot of effort.
I think they're attempting to destroy caucuses and replace our primary with a one-day primary. This would favor establishment candidates with more dirty corporate money, rendering it impossible for a Sanders or Obama candidate to ever win. It would be the candidate with the most PAC money and voters would decide based on television ads, not candidate interaction.
That's what's at stake here. Iowa is a firewall. We run these candidates through the paces. Iowa doesn't necessarily have to be first. However, a smaller state with a caucus should be one of the first. America needs to get close to these candidates and give everyone a shot. That can't be accomplished with a multi-state primary.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)The Democratic Party in Iowa, hell, nation wide, needs to get it's fucking shit together.
We're Democrats for fuck sake. Voting accuracy and transparency should not even be an issue.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)accept it. I am not on twitter but I use hashtags on places like Facebook and Huffington pOst.
We need a new hashtag if it hasn't already been created:
#PROTECTTHEVOTE
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Don't hold your breath though - how can they investigate themselves when they were the ones running the caucuses?
Kind of like the fox guarding the hen house.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Faux pas
(14,672 posts)for exposure