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[PeaceNikki]

1. A forty plus year old piece of news from a right wing rag.

Well done.

[PeaceNikki]

5. Go to your own YouTube link and check your source.

[PeaceNikki]

9. Your link is a piece of shit.

Clinton addressed this case in her book.

Here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-dogged-by-1975-rape-case/

[SidDithers]

74. Any port in a storm...nt

Sid

[GeorgeGist]

89. You might want to read your link ...

it pretty much confirms the OP.

[PeaceNikki]

91. Confirms that it had been used as a smear by the GOP

This is not new. It's rehashed bullshit. She was doing her job.

I didn't deny that she defended this guy. I never denied that she used those tactics to do it. I take bigger issue that's it's being thrown around as a smear.

[Kelvin Mace]

2. What was it Albright said about a special place in Hell

for women who don't support women?

[wyldwolf]

4. "A woman ... fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously." - Bernie Sanders

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-essay/

[wyldwolf]

15. It proves he said what he said, all "explaining it away" aside.

[farleftlib]

19. Your article doesn't answer anything

See, two can play this game.

[wyldwolf]

20. but.. but.. your fellow Bernie follower said it did. Is there a break in the hive?

[farleftlib]

24. Educate us!

You referred us back to a link that has nothing to do with the topic. What's your point?

[wyldwolf]

26. There IS a break in the hive! You didn't get your daily dispatch.

[farleftlib]

38. .

[wyldwolf]

41. .

[mak3cats]

21. More unfair garbage - see my Post #17 (eom)

[wyldwolf]

23. you're right. But I have some extra time this morning and pointing out Bernie follower hypocrisy...

... is a fun way to fill it.

[mak3cats]

27. There's plenty of hypocrisy to be had around here, and it's well-distributed...

That's what makes this place stimulating and infuriating, and completely addictive.

Have a nice day.

[mikehiggins]

35. What he said. What she did. In the reality based universe there is a difference. eom

[TheBlackAdder]

25. People who don't understand that, lack nuance, and need to take creative writing courses.

.


Most men do not fantasize about tying up and abusing women, or women fantasizing about being raped, yet those very people will dress up and go to church on Sunday.

Then, he questions why childhood gang rape appeals to some.

He then says that women must and men must fight together to fight slaveness and pigness.


===


But, the meme of one sentence, taken out of context proves powerful to those with an agenda, or...

I wouldn't have written it like that, in some of my stories, but I am not trying to provoke deep reflection of gendering in society.


.

[Politicalboi]

81. So what

Was there a victim in Bernie's writings? HilLIARy, defending the scum of the earth to reach that glass ceiling.

[PeaceNikki]

83. Feminist attorneys have the same obligation as all attorneys

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/04/hillary_clinton_defended_an_alleged_rapists_feminist_lawyers_are_right_to.html

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. The difference is Hillary was talking about a human being who was actually RAPED.

[mucifer]

6. This is as relevant as Bernie Sanders living in a pro Stalinist Kibbutz in Israel

in the 1960s. I'm a Bernie supporter and I think this is right wing crap.

[TheBlackAdder]

8. Yeah, that didn't look good for her in the 2008 election cycle either. nt

[amborin]

10. called Monica Lewinsky a "narcissistic looney tunes" ... 1 of 1000 things alienating women from HRC

[Metric System]

13. I'm pretty sure it's mostly right-wing women who'd hold Monica against Hillary.

[CoffeeCat]

18. I would never blame Hillary for her husband having sex with a 21-year old intern

That was not Hillary's fault. Hillary is not responsible for her husband's sexual issues and dishonesty.

However, to attack the victim, a young woman, is another issue.

That's wrong.

[all american girl]

78. Yeah, because being humiliated and angry may not factor into it....

Some times we say stupid things....

[treestar]

90. How was Monica a victim?

She was over the age of consent.

[Le Taz Hot]

28. Yeah, Hillary because the problem with your husband's

infidelity was the women.

[jberryhill]

86. Well, the ones that talked, anyway

I mean, honestly, if I were president and wanted to fool around, I believe I might find someone with a bit more maturity and discretion.

[Metric System]

12. Do you understand the role of a defense attorney?

[mak3cats]

17. Bernie supporter here...

...and I agree she was doing her job, as unsavory as the case sounds. This is unfair garbage - poster should delete.

[CoffeeCat]

14. This is the first that I'm hearing about this

Wow, that is shocking and disgusting!

And she has the audacity to champion the campus-rape crisis, when she's spent time re-victimizing and slandering child rape victims?

Was this discussed in 2008?

I was never aware of this.

[PeaceNikki]

16. Yes. We're hearing about it again because RW rags and DU are pushing it.

She also addressed it in her book.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-dogged-by-1975-rape-case/

[CoffeeCat]

22. Well, this is not a "RW" issue. If she did this, it is an issue

that I think most people would find interesting.

I certainly do.

One in four minor females is sexually abused, before the age of 18. Most never come forward, because they are afraid of being blamed and eviscerated, in the exact same way that Hillary Clinton has done here.

I think many people would find this information relevant and revealing.

It's disgusting.

[LuvLoogie]

32. You go feed those endorphins...

I'm almost convinced you won't vote for Hillary.

[CoffeeCat]

46. What are you talking about?

I find it repulsive that Hillary Clinton would slander a child rape victim; while admitting on audio that she knew the rapist was guilty.

I would denounce this, no matter who did it.

I think most people would find this repulsive.

You insult me for denouncing the victimization of a 12-year old rape victim--yet your denial is...what? A product of critical thinking?

You go feed your denial. I'm almost convinced that you will vote for Hillary.

[all american girl]

79. Even terriable people get a defense....No one likes it, but it is the law.

[LuvLoogie]

29. Standard issue bullshit.

What else you got in that duffle bag?

[Beacool]

30. Wow, you literally brought that from some RW site. Didn't you?

Do you know that even a serial killer is entitled to a trial of his peers? That was a court appointed case.

Go do some research and educate yourself before you post crap like this again on a Democratic site.

[Beacool]

37. You obviously know diddly about how the law works and what a defense attorney's job is.

Please, don't even try excusing bringing this crap over here.

[Beacool]

44. No, do your own research.

[polly7]

47. There is NO justification for blaming a child rape victim - in any case, anywhere on earth. nt.

[Floridanow]

61. The job of a defense attorney is to

Defend the accused. It that means making Mother Theresa look like a slaveowner, then that is done. As a court appointed attorney, Clinton didn't get a chance to pick her client - but if she didn't vigorously defended that client, she would' gotten other public defender cases. Also, note that not all claims of rape are honest claims.

[polly7]

63. Blaming a 'child' for her own rape? No, I think any human being with empathy,

defense lawyer or not, could come up with another way to prove her/his case. I full well know that not all claims of rape are honest - as someone who's been raped, taken women who've been raped to ER's and spent time in women's shelters - I also know that MOST claims are honest. I don't believe a child would lie about being raped. 12 years old???

[Oilwellian]

67. Being a 12 year old child...

it's automatically statutory rape, whether the child consented or not. Also, Hillary could have had a little spine and refused to defend this monster, especially if she knew he was guilty.

[polly7]

68. That's true, very good point. And I agree completely. nt.

[kath]

71. She took the case as a favor to a judge. she was not a defense attorney, then or ever.

I wonder how much that furthered her career...

[kath]

73. YES. He was guilty of statutory rape, totally regardless of WHATEVER the poor 12-year-old did.

[PeaceNikki]

76. Nope.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/04/hillary_clinton_defended_an_alleged_rapists_feminist_lawyers_are_right_to.html

[OilemFirchen]

77. "(R)efused to defend this monster"?

So much for Due Process, eh "progressive"?

[treestar]

88. There is no presumption of guilt in this system.

You are doing that. Stating that the accusation alone is enough to label the person guilty and therefore there is no right of defense counsel. The ethics rules for lawyers in fact address this. They are not supposed to do that.

[treestar]

92. If you are defending someone you don't presume they are guilty!

She is defending him! If accused of rape, believe it or not, you actually are allowed to plead not guilty, claim not to be a rapist and that the accuser is therefore not a victim. Good grief!

[Oneironaut]

31. 1975?

Imo anything older than 10 years is grasping at straws. Anything older than 20 years is desperate.

[Bettie]

33. I'm a supporter of Sanders

So, I'm not really pro-Hillary, but this is unfair.

She was a defense attorney and as such, it was her job, ugly as it might have been, to defend her client to the best of her ability.

She did her job and she did it well, but in the end, we shouldn't read more into it than she was doing her job.

ETA: Also, I believe she was a court-appointed attorney for this guy, so she did not choose him as a client.

[Beacool]

39. Yes, it was a court appointed case.

She didn't choose that client.

[PeaceNikki]

40. It's all laid out here. And in her book.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/jul/17/did-hillary-clinton-ask-be-relieved-rapist/

[kath]

64. And we are supposed to believe that she told the unvarnished truth, with NO spin, in her book?

yeah, right, pull the other one

[PeaceNikki]

70. You're going to believe whomever you want to believe.

You are free to join the RW twist to this or not. No link I post will change that.

Good day.

[Kip Humphrey]

36. I'm for Bernie but am not for this. Hillary was doing her job so, "Cut it out!".

[Sunlei]

43. 40 years ago, amazing how very long Mrs. Clinton has spoke out her opinions.

Guess that's from her Lawyer days and all a Lawyer could do in those days was make the perp take a polygraph.

[cyberswede]

45. Unrec

There are plenty of other reasons to prefer SBS over HRC without this shit.

You should delete this.

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. Totally.

1975?

She was a court appointed defense atty?

That's what she's SUPPOSED to do.

Let's move on.

Income inequality: remember?

Wealth inequality?

Legalized bribery?

Remember?

That... and more... is what we're supposed to be talking about.

I'm quite sure that Clinton... with all her faults.... is as dead set against child rape as the rest of us are.

Sheeeeeez.

[Kalidurga]

48. "She's emotionally unstable, fantasized and tended to seek out older men"

There is no defense for that statement. None. I don't give a fuck what her job was or what she was supposed to do according to protocol. She smeared a victim. She smeared a victim that was raped and it was rape no matter what the level of "consent" was. Defending a client doesn't mean you have to lie. If you are lying your are wrong in your defense. Especially when you are defending someone that ruined the life of an innocent person. And then you pile on to make it even worse? Fuck that shit.

[A Little Weird]

49. +1 n/t

[polly7]

54. +2. nt.

[treestar]

95. You don't take the position that the accuser is a victim

if you are claiming you are not guilty.

It is not a "lie" to make an argument that your client is not guilty. And of course you will argue to discredit the witnesses. It is a disservice to the client and failing to be objective enough to defend your own client to go easy on the witnesses because the accusation made is heinous if the client were guilty.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Slate: It Shouldn't Matter That Hillary Clinton Defended an Accused Rapist in 1975

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/06/17/hillary_clinton_defended_an_accused_rapist_in_1975_good.html

DU fell for the right wing bait.

Conservatives think they've found a great GOTCHA! this week: In 1975, Hillary Clinton was a public defender, tasked with representing a man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl. She successfully persuaded her client to plead down to a lesser charge. Now the right-wing press is slobbering all over an interview she did in the early 1980s for Esquire (an interview that never ran, but that the Washington Free Beacon dug up this week) where she discussed this case and her belief that her client was lying to her when he said he was innocent. From the Free Beacon:

Does it really, though? Defense attorneys have an unpleasant but necessary job, and Clinton did what she was obligated to do, which was to give her client a constitutionally mandated adequate defense. That should be the end of this. But Melinda Henneberger of the Washington Post has decided to keep digging, making hay over irrelevant details, such as whether Clinton was somber enough when recollecting this incident.

Henneberger is also bothered that Clinton considered the standard rape defense maneuver of trying to discredit the victim. In an affidavit requesting a psychological evaluation of the victim, Clinton wrote, "I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing." She also said she had been told that the victim had levied false accusations before.

I understand why this gives Henneberger pause, but to quote myself from 2012:

Defense attorneys use this strategy because it works, as can be routinely demonstrated. As long as juries keep acquitting based on this myth that women routinely make up rape accusations for the hell of it, defense attorneys will continue to use it. The problem here is a larger culture that promotes rape myths, not defense attorneys who exploit these myths in last-ditch attempts to get acquittals for rapists who have overwhelming evidence against them.

Henneberger agrees that "[e]ven rapists deserve adequate legal representation, of course" and that "[d]efending even a child rapist as vigorously as possible might be a plus if she were running to lead the American Bar Association." But when it comes to doing the job she was assigned to do, Henneberger frets, "But wouldn’t her apparent willingness to attack a sixth-grader compromise a presidential run?"

Perhaps, but only insofar as the right is willing to bamboozle people who don't fully understand that someone accused of a crime has a constitutional right to an adequate defense. (Sadly, this strategy has worked in the past.) Hopefully the rest of the media will not take the bait and instead focus on actual policy issues affecting women and girls, such as the Violence Against Women Act, instead of trying to adjudicate whether a defense attorney should have sabotaged her client four decades ago in hopes of a future presidential run.

[HassleCat]

52. Wasn't she the defense attorney for the accused?

It would be her job to discredit the witness against her client. We don't like it when lawyers do such things, but it is part of the job, part of the legal system we think is so wonderful, so she gets a pass on this one. Not guilty.

[Zynx]

56. Actually, though I disagree with your framing of the terms, not really.

When the physical evidence is there of sexual contact, the only defense left is to question the motivations of the victim to try to lessen the charge. It's absolutely disgusting, but it is the only avenue left to defend a client and its use is routine.

[HassleCat]

58. Nope. Not the way it's done.

It's the defense attorney's job to undermine the witness using any legal means. Does that suck? Absolutely.

[Beacool]

96. Well, I'm glad that you are not a lawyer.

If that's the representation you would give a client. Only on TV do the guilty confess and are convicted 100% of the time. An attorney who is charged with the defense of a client must represent them to the best of their ability.



Plenty of reading material on the subject. Here are a couple of examples.

Can a Lawyer Represent a Guilty Defendant?

Yes, in fact, they are ethically bound to do so in some ways. Granted, a private attorney can decline to represent your case, but for a public defender or court-appointed attorney, they must still offer a vigorous legal defense regardless of their personal opinion on their client’s guilt. Even if a client confesses their guilt to an attorney, the attorney is ethically obligated to task the government with proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of a given crime. In other instances, an attorney and client may elect to acknowledge guilt of certain crimes and go to trial seeking a more lenient sentence or defend their guilt regarding part of the charges. Again, the attorney-client privilege exists even regarding knowledge of guilt, and attorneys must represent a guilty client to the best of their ability.

http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-defense-case/attorney-client-privilege.htm


In a society that depends for the proper functioning of its criminal justice system on giving prosecutors absolute discretion in whom to charge and for what, it is essential to have a zealous criminal defense bar.

The criminal defense bar is the only check on the potential of government overreaching to erode individual civil liberties. A court may declare some of the government's action to have been foul play, but it takes a defense attorney to bring such conduct before a judge.

A good example is the rapidly-developing area of search and seizure law. With new technologies, it is physically easy for the government to monitor its citizens with GPS tracking, cell-phone location data, computer forensics, etc. But some of the surveillance is arguably intrusive, and repugnant to American[1] notions of the right to be free from unwarranted government searches. It is the criminal defense attorneys that prevent the government from expanding its powers unreasonably.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-lawyers-feel-about-defending-clients-they-believe-to-be-guilty

[Zynx]

55. Look, I have friends who are defense attorneys and have had to defend sex offenders.

The only way to do it, when the physical evidence is there otherwise, is to challenge the victim's motivations. It's unsavory and I don't have the stomach or it, but it's really your only choice for a defense in some cases.

Being a criminal defense attorney is a really shitty job and I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. I don't attack attorneys for doing their jobs so long as they are conforming to the ethics of their profession. No one has accused Hillary of being an unethical attorney, to my knowledge.

[OilemFirchen]

57. Where have I seen this before?

Enemies list:

Banks: Check.
Media: Check.
Lawyers: Check.

This MOT is feeling uncomfortable. I hope that Senator Sanders gives it a bit of pause.

[Bobbie Jo]

59. This garbage has Rove's grubby fingerprints

all over it.

I'd bet my next paycheck...

[Bobbie Jo]

69. This twisted mess is bottom of the barrel garbage

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/19/karl_rove_has_a_secret_plan_to_ratfck_hillary_and_make_himself_millions/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/us/the-best-way-to-vilify-clinton-gop-spends-heavily-to-test-it.html?referer=&_r=0


Oh, and... Welcome to DU.

[Skwmom]

60. How ANY woman could support this is beyond me. The damage done to that 12 year old child is

not defensible. It destroyed her life.

Spare me the everyone is entitled to a defense. Her defense of the rapist went far beyond mere representation.

[PeaceNikki]

72. oh, that's bs

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/04/hillary_clinton_defended_an_alleged_rapists_feminist_lawyers_are_right_to.html

[all american girl]

80. I think she was court appointed, at she had to give the best defense possable.

It sucks but even no good people are aloud defense attorneys, that's our system.

[Beacool]

84. I take taht you are not an attorney........

"Clinton has pointed out that she took the case at the request of both a prosecutor and judge. As a matter of professional ethics, Clinton did the right thing in accepting a court appointment to represent an indigent charged with a repugnant crime, and her representation is not an endorsement of the client’s conduct. As Clinton told the British online network Mumsnet, “I had a professional duty to represent my client to the best of my ability, which I did.”

[AzDar]

62. ...

[kath]

66. She was not a defense attorney (never has been), and she took that case as a FAVOR for a judge.

Hillary trying to curry favor - imagine that.

[SidDithers]

75. Welcome to DU...nt

Sid

[Odin2005]

82. This makes me physically sick.

[treestar]

87. She was a lawyer defending a defendant

Are you saying there is no right to counsel and no right to a defense for one accused of rape?

Are you saying if on a jury for a rape case, you would vote guilty regardless?

[ViseGrip]

93. You see? I'm tired of her already. I don't want another eight years of this bullshit.

[Beacool]

97. Well, I'm already tired of the Democratic Socialist and his finger pointing harangues.

We all have a cross to bear......

[Vinca]

94. Disturbing given one of her main talking points is standing up for the rights of children

early in her career. That said, it's an incident that is 40 years old. Maybe she regrets how it played out, maybe not. I don't think it's worth harping on.

[Beacool]

98. What's disturbing is that this case is being used to attack Hillary.

Either people are blatantly ignorant of the duty to represent to the best of their ability that a defense attorney is bound by law, or they are just being disingenuous and using this case as an excuse to do the usual Hillary bashing that is par for the course on this site.