Bernie Sanders: the first non Christian to win a pres primary in u.s.history!!!!!

[restorefreedom]

we made/saw history tonight!!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

1. That is a biggie!

[Aldo Leopold]

55. It's HUUUUUGE!

[Joe the Revelator]

2. I think that should get more play than it does....

[restorefreedom]

3. it was the young turks who mentioned it.

good for them!

[senz]

31. I hate to say it, but it would probably be a good idea to downplay it

because the important thing is to help Bernie win the election, and there are millions of blue collar workers (if that term still applies, given our loss of manufacturing) who have been badly hurt by Reaganomics and DLC/Third Way Dems but who strongly identify as Christians. These people need Bernie as president and will gladly vote for him if they're not spooked by stupid "identity" constraints.

[elljay]

57. Not Just Blue-Collar Workers

Read any article about Jews on Huffington Post, or RawStory and see how many antisemitic comments there are. An article in HuffPost about Ted Nugent's anti-Jewish screed gets comments about how Jews control the government and financial system and every other noxious stereotype you can imagine. This is from the progressive community. Antisemitism is the one prejudice that is acceptable across the political spectrum.

[senz]

63. My comment referred to working people harmed by Reagan & Third Way Dems

who also identify as Christian.

It had nothing to do with antisemitism. That is a separate issue.

[Aerows]

72. I'd like to make a point about Huff-Po

Huffington Post *used* to be progressive. I know - I had 10,000+ posts there, and a massive amount of followers.

The day Arianna Huffington screwed over the bloggers that made her site what it was back in those days and was paid 115 million for it, while compensating her bloggers nothing (while promising them paid jobs that never happened).

That was the day there was a mass exodus of progressive Huff Po members.

That was the day I signed up here on DU, and I've been here since with no looking back.

HP is not in anyway the progressive hot spot it used to be. Progressives, Liberals and Democrats defected in droves with the AOL debacle. In earlier times, antisemitic statements would have been roundly rebuked and generally earned someone a bad reputation (and loss of followers).

[merrily]

66. Wise, as always, senz.

[senz]

70. Not used to being called that, merrily, but thanks.

You are an unpredictable little sweetie-pie. Glad I met you online.

[merrily]

78. So glad I met you, too.

[PyaarRevolution]

80. I'm a Daoist.

I like the message that someone like me doesn't HAVE to be Christian to have a chance at the Presidency.

[senz]

89. A Daoist president would be incredibly cool.

We could use some of that wisdom in the White House.

[mikehiggins]

96. Don't worry about it. The Clinton campaign brought up "Bernie is a jew" first thing last night. eom

[JimDandy]

4. I'll really celebrate when an Atheist is in the White House. n/t

But, breaking the status-quo is good enough for now.

[TTUBatfan2008]

11. I could be wrong...

But isn't Bernie pretty much a non-practicing Jew? Think I saw that written somewhere.

[JimDandy]

22. I have heard others say that, but not Bernie Sanders.

The implication was that he is Jewish by heritage but perhaps secular as to religion. If he is a secular Jew or an actual Atheist I hope he is as forthcoming about that as he is with his political beliefs.

[elljay]

59. Jewish Identity

Jewish identity is different from Christianity in that no belief or faith is required to be a Jew, or even to practice Judaism (we are complicated). We are a people, a culture, a lifestyle and a religion. You will find different expressions of being Jewish across our community. Bernie is quite typical of American Jews and we are quite proud of him (at least many of us are - you will never get all of us to agree about anything!)

[iandhr]

88. I think he said something like

"I am proud to be Jewish but I am not particularly religious."

[jeff47]

13. Then you could start celebrating in 1860.

There's no record of Lincoln attending church.

[Jim Lane]

16. There is also no record of Lincoln winning a Presidential primary.

The election of 1912 was the first in which any states used Presidential primaries, a reform that was championed by the Progressive movement.

[jeff47]

18. That poster wasn't using the same criteria as an OP.

OP was talking about primaries, that poster was talking about the White House.

And the first national primary was in 1831, but it wasn't one of the major parties.

[Jim Lane]

69. I'd love to be able to cite Lincoln as a nonreligious President, but the case is a weak one.

He did attend church services and made religious references in speeches. One can't rule out the possibility that he maintained a false façade for political purposes, but my guess is that he was not an atheist (although holding negative views of many aspects of organized religion).

I do see your point, though, that you were responding to a post about an atheist in the White House, not a non-Christian winning a primary.

As for primaries, 1831 wasn't exactly a national primary in the modern sense. I assume you're referring to this:

The first national convention was called by the Anti-Masonic Party in 1831 as they could not use the caucus system as they had no Congressmen. The party leaders instead called for a national meeting of supporters to select the party's candidate. This convention was held in Baltimore, Maryland on September 26, 1831 which selected William Wirt as their Presidential candidate.[25]

Delegates to the national convention were usually selected at state conventions whose own delegates were chosen by district conventions. Sometimes they were dominated by intrigue between political bosses who controlled delegates; the national convention was far from democratic or transparent. Progressive Era reformers looked to the primary election as a way to measure popular opinion of candidates, as opposed to the opinion of the bosses. In 1910, Oregon became the first state to establish a presidential preference primary, which requires delegates to the National Convention to support the winner of the primary at the convention. {from this Wikipedia page}

So I'd still say that no one won a Presidential primary before the 1912 election.

[rhett o rick]

19. Lincoln believed in Christ but not churches. I think he said, show me a church that lives by

the Golden Rule and I will attend services. That is very rough from my memory.

[JimDandy]

21. From 1850 on, Lincoln attended the Presbyterian Church with his wife,

but he never joined/became a member. Lincoln appears to have believed in God up to a point, or at least the concept of God. He is the closest we ever came to an Atheist president. But there are no documents from him or his contemporaries that assert he was an Atheist or an Anti-theist, and, apparently, Lincoln scholars haven't asserted he was either. When an American who runs as an avowed Atheist or Anti-theist becomes President, then I'll believe the US has fulfilled the separation of church and state at that level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Abraham_Lincoln
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1251&pid=1188409

(Those are the top two google results)

ETA I have no scholarly knowledge about Abraham Lincoln only what I learned growing up and what is easily googled.

[Docreed2003]

33. Tell that to the NY Ave Presbyterian Church in DC...

Lincoln himself paid for a pew, which is preserved today. And the church has one of the few signed copies of the Emancipation Proclimation in their Lincoln Library. Lincoln may have been an atheist/agnostic but there is plenty of proof that he did attend church, at least during his time as president.

[Art_from_Ark]

36. Lincoln often referred to the Christian God

and even signed the legislation to put "In God We Trust" on US coins (the Coinage Act of 1864).

[Feeling the Bern]

74. Just because you're Jewish doesn't mean you believe in Gawd! I'm Jewish, I don't

But, as I tell people, if you can give me scientific prove of a higher power, I will get down on my knees right now and pray my ass off!

[JimDandy]

77. Busted out laughing...

[liberal_at_heart]

108. My evangelical Christian father has been trying to convert me and my husband for years.

One day my husband who only has one eye told him if God regrew his missing eye ball he would convert. My husband actually does believe in God, just not in any man made religion.

[Feeling the Bern]

109. I want to believe in God. I truly do. I just need proof of a diety (any diety) exists.

[Seedersandleechers]

102. I don't have any proof

but I always thought Obama was a closet Atheist.

[Jefferson23]

5. I know! A great great day in many ways. K&R

[Jarqui]

6. Rachel just said that his 21 point lead is a modern day record

margin for a competitive primary. Rachel thought the previous record was +16

Bernie blew it away!

[jillan]

7. Secret Service keep him safe! There are a lot of anti-semtic jerks out there.

[rhett o rick]

20. There are a lot of billionaires out there that don't like to lose. nm

[senz]

71. Yeah, billionaires definitely do not want a Sanders presidency

and yet, he could set this country on a much stronger, more stable long-range financial footing. Everyone would benefit.

[TheBlackAdder]

64. Hopefully, they also use a geiger counter. Don't want any Putin-esque Pololium-210 cocktails. nt

[valerief]

8. AND he's a virtual atheist--a humanist!!! He's not allowed to blatantly say

that, but he's no gawd-is-great guy.

[restorefreedom]

9. yup. i wonder

how many freeper heads will explode if he wins the presidency...

[Luminous Animal]

15. That is silly. I am an atheist. Bernie flat out says he believes in God.

[valerief]

17. He went on to say that god is people caring about other people.

He said he was spiritual. Which means nothing.

[hopemountain]

41. perhaps to you

but for those of us who are spiritual and do not follow any church's doctrine it is important. your statement is insensitive and insulting.

[valerief]

42. Your flippancy over my atheism is insulting and rude. nt

[hopemountain]

47. i am not being rude by stating to you your

incorrect and insensitve statement and offering you my perception of said statement. your reply is pure projection.

[valerief]

49. Please, put me on Ignore. I'll do the same for you. Problem solved. nt

[litlbilly]

23. He's more of a spiritualist, he said, if kids are starving and Veterans are sleeping on the street,

that affects him. That's more religious than an awful lot of church goers.

[valerief]

29. That's compassion. But he has to couch it in religious terms cuz America. nt

[hopemountain]

44. spiritual is not "religious"

- it is a way of life, perceiving life and other living things and thinking with heart and soul.

[valerief]

46. It's a bullshit term to me. Sorry, but I've tried to "believe" for decades and "spiritual" doesn't

pass my bullshit radar. Not gonna change now.

[hopemountain]

51. no one is asking you to believe anything

and i do understand your perceptions are different. there is no cause for disrespect for differences in one another's. perceptions - including bernie's. not all people are proselytizing assholes, so stop acting as if everyone is going to try to convert you to something.

[litlbilly]

53. religious is just a term anyway. Many different forms of spiritualism that goes back

a long ways

[hopemountain]

56. thank you.

yes, far beyond time

[appalachiablue]

32. He did, true to his character, strong sense of justice & concern for the people.

An authentic, determined and rare person.

[bettyellen]

10. More history! Woot!

[Arugula Latte]

12. That's awesome. Religion is the scourge of the planet.

[SoapBox]

25. plus a million!

[moriah]

14. Yes, this is another election where history will be made either way.

That we could see the first woman (which now that Fiorina is out of the race and probably ruined her VP tap chances by sulking over not getting to continue in debates despite her poor performance, I don't mind advocating), or the first non-Christian (because if any of our early Presidents might have been agnostic or atheist, the closest they ever publicly said was agreeing with Deism not being evil) and the first Jewish President....

It's great!

I hope that no matter the battle for the nomination,we all remember that both candidates and our eventual platform will all give a nice mule-kick in the ass to anything or anyone the GOP offers.

[vaberella]

24. Yay! n/t

[MFM008]

26. He will need a Moses sized miracle

to beat a methodist in the southern/midwest states.

[senz]

27. It is very significant. Of course, Bernie is the most Christ-following candidate

in the race, and I am positive Jesus would agree.

But it is great that we have finally toppled the "Christian" hold on our central democratic process.

[mucifer]

61. Well Jesus was Jewish, too.

[senz]

68. Completely. Not only that, he was not a "Christian"

and, in fact, did not set out to start a new religion.

This thing the world has been dealing with for two thousand years is not what Jesus intended. Within three or four centuries of his death, his little movement had been thoroughly co-opted by Rome.

But from Mark, Matthew, and Luke, we can get a good idea of what sort of things Jesus did and said. From that, I sincerely believe he'd have nothing but good to say about Bernie Sanders.

(It feels a little funny tonight to be writing this to Snoopy on his dog house. )

[elmac]

28. And the first Democratic socialist

since FDR

[NowSam]

30. Very significant

Forgive me if I am being insensitive for posing this question: Is it possible that President Obama, with his Historic win, broke all the barriers? Is that why Hillary being a female doesn't have the same wow factor as Obama's victory? I am Jewish but not religious. I am not so impressed with a Jewish man having a victory here as much as this particular person, Bernie Sanders, because of his ideas and his integrity and his career record of consistent caring for the people. He is a man of the people. Here is what I think is significant: I think his age is a real stunner. Is 70 the new 50? Jagger and McCartney might have me believe that! Bernie does too. He was shooting hoops tonight while waiting for the results to come in. So just a few thoughts and a big Thank you to Obama for breaking the barriers for all of us.

[senz]

34. It definitely feels like Bernie is breaking down barriers.

Maybe we haven't quite pinpointed which ones.

[MisterP]

38. JFK, too--until then everyone was terrified the potato-eaters would hand the country over and

the bishops would replace the governors

before that it was the Chinese (or the Masons or Italians, I forget right now)

[hopemountain]

54. there are many barriers and

president obama certainly has knocked down significant barriers and it has really loosened things up. who would of believed that a democratic socialist with integrity and so much more has just won a primary - i am cannot wait to see what is to come as more voters become involved in the democratic process.

[elljay]

60. Some Barriers

I think that Obama broke some barriers, for some people, but not all. The vehement opposition to him from Republicans makes it clear that a lot of people in this country are still quite racist. And, it has been my unfortunate observation that there are many antisemites in the progressive community, including people of different religions and races. I will believe that all barriers are down when we elect our second black president, and when one's religion, or lack thereof, is a private matter and not at all relevant to a candidacy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. And he's SECULAR!!!!

[slipslidingaway]

48. So was Mossadeq ....

we can only hope for a different outcome.

But they are already speaking of a challenger if Sanders is the nominee.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. They might have things get very nasty if they turn this into a farce.

[slipslidingaway]

58. Sanders never ran on his religion or gender ...

he just hammered home on the issues. They can run on other items, we'll focus on the issues for ALL people.

[WayBeyondBlue]

37. Voters made it happen, but superdelegates might take it away

K, I'm new here. Haven't posted anywhere in forever. Since Bush, prolly. Got the Bern big-time but I remain.. apprehensive about how this whole primary thing will finally work out. Source of apprehension? Take a peek at http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/primaries/2016-02-09#NH-Dem especially the part where it says that Hillary has 15 compared to 13 NH Dem delegates. Yeah, I know that the supers all flocked to HRC but the real question is, will these people overrule the will of NH Dem voters and throw the state to HRC? If so, then I want to discuss a plan for the general.

[restorefreedom]

39. there has been a lot of talk of supers

the consensus seems to be that they will not override the will of the voters.

they keep pushing it as part of the inevitability meme, which seems to have been blown out of the water tonight.

welcome!

[WayBeyondBlue]

40. THX!

Good to be back in the discussion.
"Seems" is of concern to me. So fed up with the system protecting itself (Landrew guide us). I'm trying to figure out how to actually act in the eventuality that the supers do thwart the will of the voters, in any measure, come convention day.

Ah, well. Seems the consensus is to think it's all fine. Not to worry. DW-S will uphold the principles of democracy, just like before when she arranged the debate schedule. We'll see.

[mucifer]

62. If they are millionaires and billionaires we are in trouble.

[lykemike]

43. What about

JFK?

[Bluenorthwest]

103. Catholics are Christians. How can you not know this? JFK was Catholic.

nt

[lykemike]

105. Uh, no

Catholics aren't Christians, just ask a Christian. Mormons think they're christians too, but are not.

[boblgumm]

45. You don't think they actually believe that stuff?

I'll bet any number of presidents were atheists and agnostics. They just had to pretend otherwise. Sanders is one of the first to not pretend. I think genuinely religious people are capable of feeling shame when they do wrong. Many government leaders are acutely shameless. Put another way, do you think Dick Cheney really is afraid of going to Hell? I don't. And I'll tell you a little secret about us Jews. Our atheist ranks are legion.

[connecticut yankee]

104. Unitarians

John and John Quincy Adams were Unitarians. So was William Howard Taft. Thomas Jefferson may have been. Many Unitarians are atheists and agnostics (I am). I don't know if a Unitarian could be elected President these days, although President Obama was raised as one.

[mikehiggins]

52. A jew from Brooklyn. It figures.

Of course he's from Vermont now, but I'm an emigre to Santa Fe from Queens and I applaud Bernie's achievement.

[Feeling the Bern]

75. Hey, we're everywhere. I'm a Jew from Queens!

Go Bernie! Go Bernie!

[zentrum]

65. Ironically

…he's the best Christian of the bunch. I mean real Christian—in his values.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. KICK AND REC

[Feeling the Bern]

73. Very proud of the fellow Landsman! God Boinie! We awl luv yas down at Hadassah

Let's go to Klienah's deli and have a nosh on half souah pickles and pastrami on rye with that real gud mustahd! Don't fahget the Doctah Brown's!

Sorry, I'm Jewish and born and raised in NY. It just comes out!

[Major Hogwash]

76. We are well on our way towards a better future because of it!!

It has taken over 227 years, but finally people are waking up to the idea that politics and religion should be separated from each other, just like corn and mashed potatoes!!!

[keithbvadu2]

79. What about Romney?

Many of our evangelicals say that Mormons (and Catholics) are not Christians.

Franklin and Billy Graham say it.

[restorefreedom]

81. i guess the grahams don't get to decide.....

but yes, they would probably argue that

[HockeyMom]

86. Yes, I know but

the official name of their Religion is the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints. Of course, if they believe in Jesus, then they are still Christians (same with Catholics) whatever other Christian Sects may say.

[keithbvadu2]

92. So who are we supposed to believe?

http://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/october-2012/can-an-evangelical-christian-vote-fo
r-a-mormon/

"We need something like what Jerry Falwell did in the 1980s. We need a “moral
majority”—made up of Christians, Jews, Mormons, Catholics and many others of faith—to
come together to take a stand for our religious freedoms and rights."

Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

Also that God physically came down to earth to impregnate Mary rather than the Holy Ghost.

There seem to be some conflicting beliefs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

82. The kosher ceiling has finally been shattered! nt

[restorefreedom]

84. mazel tov to bernie! nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

83. With all due respect

This is not exactly earth-shattering in the Democratic Party. After all, Lieberman was already previously nominated as VP in 2000. Something like this might be viewed a little more earth-shattering IMHO in the Republican primary, which only nominated their first woman to VP in 2008, 24 years after the Democratic Party did. Congrats to Bernie on his win, however.

[restorefreedom]

85. its noteworthy, as was hillary

being the first woman to win delegates in a pres election in iowa

every ceiling to crash is a good thing, imo

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. Being picked as opposed to outperforming an inevitable candidate at the BALLOT BOX.

Not the same.

[sulphurdunn]

90. They key word here is "primary"

There have been quite a few presidents without or with at best questionable Christian bonafides.

http://www.theamateurthinker.com/2011/11/meet-the-18-non-christian-presidents/

[retrowire]

91. I'm happy to see the stigma against any religion other than Christianity seems to be fading. nt

[keithbvadu2]

93. We also have some super Christians running.

Trump is so comfortable and familiar with his Christianity that he puts money in the Holy Communion.

[freebrew]

94. I remeber the same being said of JFK...

back in the day, when Catholics weren't considered 'real' christians...

[Bohemianwriter]

95. Watch out! SANITY is coming to the White House!

[NurseJackie]

97. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other what someone's religion is.

[restorefreedom]

98. i wish it didn"t matter to anyone

my guess is that the conservstives care more about someone's religion. its nice to see history made, though. bernie first non christian and first jew, and hillary first woman to win delegates in a pres primary. cool.

[tclambert]

99. Okay, but Trump also won and he worships only himself.

What do they call that, autotheism? (Or is that the worship of Porsches?)

[eppur_se_muova]

100. ... that we know of.

You can't spot non-Christians just by looking at them.

[restorefreedom]

101. pres candidates are usually open, or are asked about their faith

but yes, many like bernie seem to want to be private about it, which i think is better

[fun n serious]

107. Their fruits. ;) You know them by their fruits. ;) nt

[fun n serious]

106. I support Hillary still I agree this is great news. nt

[restorefreedom]

110. no mattr which dem wins, history will be made :) nt

[czarjak]

111. Uhhhhhh....

What about Mitt? Mormonism is NOT Christianity.

[restorefreedom]

112. says who?

its called the church of jesus christ and latter day saints

i will let them decide if they are christian or not, not a bunch of rw southern baptists...

but he probably was the first LDS nominee..