Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
155 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If you support Hillary, you support Kissinger. If Democrats nominate Hillary, they (Original Post) KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 OP
what a specious argument bigtree Feb 2016 #1
GTFO - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #3
And the results are: LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author fleur-de-lisa Feb 2016 #36
Are you a true Bernie supporter ? stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #106
Why? She is PROUD of his endorsement which implies that she thinks he is just peachy fucking keen CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #15
How so? Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #67
The huge difference would be... dchill Feb 2016 #127
Not sure how Bill Press figures into this Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #132
No, but he did write a book... dchill Feb 2016 #137
No, HRC wrote a full blown review in the Washington Post Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #138
That is truly disgusting. dchill Feb 2016 #140
oh that is funny jham123 Feb 2016 #139
Care to refute the point, or just want to love profanity and insults? Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #90
+1000 stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #108
How so? Ken Burch Feb 2016 #125
the idea that someone's foreign policy ideas restorefreedom Feb 2016 #2
I am aghast. - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #4
It's nauseating. John Poet Feb 2016 #6
They probably have. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #16
Who to bomb next. Helen Borg Feb 2016 #39
you pic is missing something magical thyme Feb 2016 #118
LOL! John Poet Feb 2016 #146
So, does this mean people who support Bernie support Cornel West on everything he has ever boston bean Feb 2016 #5
How many millions of people has Cornel West caused the torture, suffering and murder of? polly7 Feb 2016 #17
Did I say he did? I don't think I did. boston bean Feb 2016 #22
You compared him to Kissinger. polly7 Feb 2016 #23
No I did not. That might be your reading, but follow along. boston bean Feb 2016 #26
Oh, yes you did. I 'followed along'. polly7 Feb 2016 #27
I'm pretty sure the standard you speak of is... tk2kewl Feb 2016 #29
Wow, the Sarah Palin speak sure is popular with a certain candidates supporters around here. JTFrog Feb 2016 #50
I corrected my spelling in case that's what worried you about my post re genocide tk2kewl Feb 2016 #56
Parrotting Sarah Palin has zero to do with your spelling. JTFrog Feb 2016 #66
Wrong tk2kewl Feb 2016 #72
EXACTLY!!! jham123 Feb 2016 #141
Schroedinger's Candidate. Marr Feb 2016 #147
We aren't talking about two people who shared a cab, for fuck's sake. Marr Feb 2016 #136
+1000 jham123 Feb 2016 #142
I thought the same thing when I read "pal around" redstateblues Feb 2016 #58
Makes one wonder about where some of the attackers' loyalty really lies AlbertCat Feb 2016 #80
My loyalties lie with truth and equality. frylock Feb 2016 #126
So in your universe, using the phrase, 'pal around' is indicative of right-wing thinking, but Marr Feb 2016 #131
perfect jham123 Feb 2016 #143
... retrowire Feb 2016 #46
Don't be obtuse. A person's 'mentors' are indicative of their own positions/values. Marr Feb 2016 #129
That's a fake quote oberliner Feb 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog Feb 2016 #92
Has he said or done anything to upset your white middle class sensitivities and privileges? Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #40
Yep, I support Cornel West on about 98.74% of things (nt) nyabingi Feb 2016 #64
Those of us old enough to have lived through the Vietnam war Merryland Feb 2016 #7
THANK GOD Bernie Sanders called her out on that shit. He has endeared himself KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #12
Ayup. AzDar Feb 2016 #8
what a silly statement DrDan Feb 2016 #9
Why? Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #73
there are many factors involved in deciding which candidate to support DrDan Feb 2016 #112
For me, certain lines cannot be crossed Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #115
if either Hillary or Bernie is elected, I think we will see a meeting with W . . as there should be DrDan Feb 2016 #116
Not the same thing Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #117
I respectfully disagree. cali Feb 2016 #10
makes you wonder where she was during the 60s nashville_brook Feb 2016 #11
Just for the bombing of Cambodia alone, he should be KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #13
In the 60s she was supporting nuke the whole world Goldwater. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #18
Well, Kissinger's foreign policy backed coups and created failed states... jeff47 Feb 2016 #55
High school mikehiggins Feb 2016 #62
In 69 she actually attacked a black senator in her college grad speech nashville_brook Feb 2016 #111
She led anti-Vietnam war protests at Yale. joshcryer Feb 2016 #74
Yeah, riiiight. Goldwater grrrrl. nashville_brook Feb 2016 #109
Bernie Sanders has praised Fidel Castro. By your logic, supporting Sanders means that Freddie Stubbs Feb 2016 #14
Like Batista much, do you? - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #19
Batista has been dead for over 40 years and the Castros are still oppressing the Cuban people Freddie Stubbs Mar 2016 #155
I will take Castro over fucking Kissinger any day. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #20
Kissinger actually had a secret plan to launch airstrikes against Cuba to retaliate against KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #21
Yep! nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #24
Using that logic Bernie supporters must idolize Daniel Ortega CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #25
I may not support Castro but I am smart enough to know the United States did more to harm A Simple Game Feb 2016 #85
I support Hillary vdogg Feb 2016 #28
My, aren't you precious? - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #30
Well, personally I'd recommend reviewing her foreign policy jeff47 Feb 2016 #59
If Hillary embraces Kissinger as a source of foreign policy philosophy Trajan Feb 2016 #65
Ouch! SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #81
And it means that she will continue to destroy governments with the acceptance of American DhhD Feb 2016 #84
That's quite a big strawman you built there vdogg Feb 2016 #144
Just the image of her embracing him during an election campaign Trajan Feb 2016 #145
Will everyone who posted here be blocked by the Hillary group katmondoo Feb 2016 #32
Sanders supporters must also LOVE Eugene V. Debs CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #33
What's wrong with one of the most important labor leaders ever? Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #91
Pretty telling... AOR Feb 2016 #99
What's funny is they don't even seem to realize how out of step they are. Marr Feb 2016 #124
Pete Seeger did too for a while. Your point? I support everything Seeger supported. Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #104
And if you support Bernie leftynyc Feb 2016 #34
Bernie said he trusts Stalin's advice? retrowire Feb 2016 #48
So was the OP leftynyc Feb 2016 #113
the OP at least tried connecting dots that existed. lol nt retrowire Feb 2016 #119
Because Bernie has publicly and proudly touted KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #49
Nope - just his economic ideas leftynyc Feb 2016 #114
We should NOT be judged by those with whom we consult CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #37
You are not required to praise everyone you consult. jeff47 Feb 2016 #60
More importantly, Kissinger praised Hillary Lordquinton Feb 2016 #123
She didn't just consult him Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #75
Oh dear, he read books from people Americans have been instructed to hate Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #105
She may as well get Cheney as foreign advisor. Helen Borg Feb 2016 #38
I supported Obama but I didn't support Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Eric Holder, or Hillary Clinton think Feb 2016 #41
Obama was forced to disavow Rev. Wright, but Hillary is allowed KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #42
Reluntantly, I have to agree erlewyne Feb 2016 #43
Senator Sanders showed us what he is made of, fitting on the eve KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #44
but. but. but he is famous and all that olddots Feb 2016 #45
what a ridiculous, SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #47
Here's a positive post: the ghosts of 2,000,000 southeast Asians silently KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #52
President Bill Clinton was one of the best presidents of all time lobodons Feb 2016 #51
Right up there with Lincoln, Washington and FDR, he is. /sarcasm/ - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #53
close, but no cigar lobodons Feb 2016 #54
Close but no cigar UnBlinkingEye Feb 2016 #83
LOL GummyBearz Feb 2016 #100
And she so PROUD of being praised by hifiguy Feb 2016 #57
for all of Kissinger's faults, Kissinger is not a COMMUNIST like Cornel West and Noam Trotsky ericson00 Feb 2016 #61
Yikes.... think Feb 2016 #63
I'm sure a lot of my childhood pals would agree mikehiggins Feb 2016 #68
Um, Hillary worked at TW&B, a communist party associated law firm. joshcryer Feb 2016 #76
Really, you would choose someone responsible Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #78
WOW SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #96
I'm surprised no one has reported on that post. B Calm Feb 2016 #98
Noam Chomsky says things about our country (assuming you're also an American) ericson00 Feb 2016 #120
Noam Chomsky tells the ugly truths... SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #121
well then you're far out of the American mainstream; ericson00 Feb 2016 #122
What? gollygee Feb 2016 #134
complete nonsense beachbum bob Feb 2016 #69
If she loved Kissinger, wonder how she felt about Nixon? EndElectoral Feb 2016 #70
She liked Goldwater! Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #93
Was that back when she was President of Young Republicans in college? I B Calm Feb 2016 #95
Yes, see in 1964, when Bernie was organizing sit-ins for Civil Rights, Hillary supported a Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #97
In her heart, she knew he was right. (Little shout-out to fans of the KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #150
These are the "advisors" she keeps nyabingi Feb 2016 #71
For an apt comparison: OilemFirchen Feb 2016 #77
Affirming the consequent is a common fallacy made by the irrational mind LanternWaste Feb 2016 #79
This is silly, too. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #82
hmmm rtracey Feb 2016 #86
have been a strong advocate for Colin Powell. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #89
He lied? rtracey Feb 2016 #110
Before you go touting your support of Powell, it would behoove you I think KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #154
ZAP! Another fine addition to the ignore list. nt procon Feb 2016 #87
Guity by association. itsrobert Feb 2016 #88
Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. Henry Kissinger B Calm Feb 2016 #94
When asked if why soldiers could die in high numbers for him, Hitler said: Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #103
I agree with you 100%. When did DU become we love Kissinger channel because Hillary likes him? Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #101
Upside-down, twilight stuff. DUers are morphing into republicans right before our eyes. RiverLover Feb 2016 #149
I did bad in logic class, too BeyondGeography Feb 2016 #102
Very simple... SoapBox Feb 2016 #107
Don't define me with your paradigm upaloopa Feb 2016 #128
If anyone has a YouTube channel Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #130
Nope. bettyellen Feb 2016 #133
Yawn. Not impressed. What else have you got? stopbush Feb 2016 #135
That logic is beyond sophomoric - almost preschool level I would say. nt hack89 Feb 2016 #148
Wuuuahhhaa!! Beacool Feb 2016 #151
Following this logic...... DFW Feb 2016 #152
Kissinger occupies an entirely different category of sub-human KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #153

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
35. And the results are:
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:46 AM
Feb 2016

On Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:39 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

GTFO - nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1210931

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Does this really need an explanation. One DUer telling another to get the fuck out?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:46 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get a grip
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Grow up.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The spew in this forum is pathetic, it's going to need a military grade fumigation when the primaries are finally over. This kind of think truly is making DU suck. sharp_stick

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #3)

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
15. Why? She is PROUD of his endorsement which implies that she thinks he is just peachy fucking keen
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:14 AM
Feb 2016

as a human being and one swell ass SOS, just like her.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
67. How so?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:46 AM
Feb 2016

Let's change the value for x.

Instead of Kissinger, let's use Dick Cheney. If HRC had written a fawning review of a Cheney book, and called him a friend and adviser, would you feel the same?

And yes, before you cry out that there is a huge difference between between the two, let me a agree with you. Cheney is nowhere near as bad as Kissinger.

dchill

(38,321 posts)
137. No, but he did write a book...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:07 PM
Feb 2016

that Bernie Sanders wrote a blurb for. I thought that was what you meant.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
138. No, HRC wrote a full blown review in the Washington Post
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:20 PM
Feb 2016

very nice and very flattering, and no mention of how Kissinger can't visit a few dozen countries because he would be arrested for war crimes. As recently as this week she had praise for him and bragged about his mentoring her.

dchill

(38,321 posts)
140. That is truly disgusting.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:26 PM
Feb 2016

She is more a member of the power elite than a member of the Democratic Party.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
90. Care to refute the point, or just want to love profanity and insults?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:20 PM
Feb 2016

She likes Kissinger. Kissinger is an unconvicted war criminal.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
125. How so?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:50 PM
Feb 2016

She hasn't said which of Kissinger's actions she actually disagrees with.

And she needs to.

Nothing(other than the China thing)that Dr. K did could ever be acceptable for a Democratic president to do.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
2. the idea that someone's foreign policy ideas
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:56 AM
Feb 2016

could come from or be encouraged by such an individual, and that the recipient of that advice is PROUD of it, blows my mind

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
5. So, does this mean people who support Bernie support Cornel West on everything he has ever
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:01 AM
Feb 2016

said, done or written?

polly7

(20,582 posts)
17. How many millions of people has Cornel West caused the torture, suffering and murder of?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:15 AM
Feb 2016

“Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.”

“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
22. Did I say he did? I don't think I did.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:17 AM
Feb 2016

But this OP is pure bunk. Hillary seeking advice from anyone does not mean she agrees with them. She does have a mind of her own. And we all know that even sometimes our enemies can have a valid point of view.

So, if you are going to have a standard, hold everyone to it, ok. That was my point, in case you missed it.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
26. No I did not. That might be your reading, but follow along.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:21 AM
Feb 2016

I was comparing a standard that some have set.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
29. I'm pretty sure the standard you speak of is...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:26 AM
Feb 2016

Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Don't pal around with genocidal maniacs nor take the advice on matters of war and peace

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
50. Wow, the Sarah Palin speak sure is popular with a certain candidates supporters around here.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:30 AM
Feb 2016

"pall around"

I've seen this term thrown at Hillary around here quite a lot lately.

Just another example of the "left" attacking from the right. Right now this place is a looney tunes marathon.






 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
66. Parrotting Sarah Palin has zero to do with your spelling.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:44 AM
Feb 2016

That guilt by association was one of her favorite tools, but I'm sure you are doing her proud by spelling it correctly.




 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
72. Wrong
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

If we can't judge Hillary on her foreign policy advisors, her campaign contributors, her war votes, her paid speeches, her pervious campaigns or her ever changing positions, then what are we supposed to judge her on? Her nice outfit and harirdo?

jham123

(278 posts)
141. EXACTLY!!!
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:30 PM
Feb 2016

It can't be put more plainly than that, the Hillary supporters are being very obtuse on this subject. Classic deflection. They are even dragging Sarah Palin into the discussion as if that is going to whitewash Clinton's actions and who she uses for advice on foreign policy.

face it Clintonistas, Hillary was totally blindsided last evening when the Kissinger topic was exposed. She had nothing but a bunch of platitudes and once again, Bernie was spot on.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
147. Schroedinger's Candidate.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:43 PM
Feb 2016

You cannot judge her at all. The only way to know her is to make her president.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
136. We aren't talking about two people who shared a cab, for fuck's sake.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:05 PM
Feb 2016

We are talking about a former SoS saying another SoS was a personal mentor and friend. You're as far off the deep end as Palin was. Guilt by association is one thing, denying that open, policy-centered associations mean anything is just as loony.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
58. I thought the same thing when I read "pal around"
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:38 AM
Feb 2016

Makes one wonder about where some of the attackers' loyalty really lies

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
80. Makes one wonder about where some of the attackers' loyalty really lies
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:05 PM
Feb 2016

Are you assuming that the term "Pal around" was invented by Palin and the GOP?... or is it a very old English phrase. According to Dictionary.com, it appears around 1900.

Is associating ad judging people with an old English idiom worse than associating people with whom they do indeed "pal around" with?

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
131. So in your universe, using the phrase, 'pal around' is indicative of right-wing thinking, but
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:00 PM
Feb 2016

saying Kissinger is a personal mentor on foreign policy indicates nothing whatsoever.

jham123

(278 posts)
143. perfect
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:34 PM
Feb 2016

very well stated,

And Last week, "Albright: 'Special place in Hell'......Oh, she's been saying that a long time, means nothing

This week, "Kissinger is a personal mentor" that's some old thing from years ago, means nothing

"I never saw Bernie" [at the Civil Rights movements] SEE!! Bernie is a liar!!!

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
46. ...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:24 AM
Feb 2016

"Hillary seeking advice from anyone does not mean she agrees with them."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMFG STAHP PLEASE

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
129. Don't be obtuse. A person's 'mentors' are indicative of their own positions/values.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:57 PM
Feb 2016

I think that's so obvious that it shouldn't need to be stated.

Response to polly7 (Reply #17)

Merryland

(1,134 posts)
7. Those of us old enough to have lived through the Vietnam war
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:05 AM
Feb 2016

remember how disgusting Kissinger was. She shouldn't have admitted their creepy relationship.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
12. THANK GOD Bernie Sanders called her out on that shit. He has endeared himself
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:09 AM
Feb 2016

to me forever for that, fitting on Lincoln's birthday.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
112. there are many factors involved in deciding which candidate to support
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:11 PM
Feb 2016

I think it is silly to think one has to agree 100% with all of the candidate's positions to decide to support him/her.

I happen to think she erred with the email server. That does not mean I will not support her. Same with seeking advice from Kissinger. We really do not know the details or topics of any discussion they had.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
115. For me, certain lines cannot be crossed
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:16 PM
Feb 2016

Consorting with a war criminal, then bragging about is one such line. As I asked another poster above, would you feel the same way if it were Dick Cheney?

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
116. if either Hillary or Bernie is elected, I think we will see a meeting with W . . as there should be
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:21 PM
Feb 2016

how do you feel about that?

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
117. Not the same thing
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:32 PM
Feb 2016

Meeting with former presidents is expected. The last Democrat with any legit reason to meet Kissinger was Carter, since he inherited Kissinger's mess. HRC has gone out of her way to consort with Kissinger, to write a fawning review of his book and to praise his "service" and "expertise".

Again, change the name from Kissinger to Cheney and tell me how you would feel about voting for someone who had high regard for Dick Cheney's policies and "expertise" in foreign affairs.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
11. makes you wonder where she was during the 60s
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:08 AM
Feb 2016

for real, now. how can this man be your "hero" if you had any simpatico with the anti-war movement?

the answer is none.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
55. Well, Kissinger's foreign policy backed coups and created failed states...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:37 AM
Feb 2016

which lead to horrific, murderous regimes that butchered millions.

Clinton's foreign policy....backed coups and created failed states, which lead to horrific murderous regimes that butchered millions.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
111. In 69 she actually attacked a black senator in her college grad speech
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:54 PM
Feb 2016

B/c he was too much of an incrementalist.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
74. She led anti-Vietnam war protests at Yale.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:53 AM
Feb 2016

In 1970 she chaired the student meeting at Yale that did a general strike. Same year she went to a law firm that defended the black Panthers.

Do people here not know that Hillary Clinton was a died in the wool hippy?

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
20. I will take Castro over fucking Kissinger any day.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:16 AM
Feb 2016

Kissinger is a soulless monster masquerading as a man.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
21. Kissinger actually had a secret plan to launch airstrikes against Cuba to retaliate against
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:17 AM
Feb 2016

Cuba for her support of Angola against Apartheid South Africa, thereby squaring this disgusting circle.

Hillary supports black people, provided they're American black people. Angolans? Meh, not so much, one must conclude.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
85. I may not support Castro but I am smart enough to know the United States did more to harm
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:12 PM
Feb 2016

Cuba than did Castro.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
59. Well, personally I'd recommend reviewing her foreign policy
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:40 AM
Feb 2016

because it looks an awful lot like Kissinger's.

Backed right-wing coups? Check.
Created failed states? Check.
Sat back as brutal, totalitarian regimes took over those failed states? Check.
Still pushing to back more coups and create more failed states, despite the results above? Check.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
65. If Hillary embraces Kissinger as a source of foreign policy philosophy
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:44 AM
Feb 2016

And ... If you know this, and vote for her anyways, knowing this is true, then you are voting for Kissinger's philosophy ...

The key here is YOU KNOW IT ... If you know it, then still vote for it, then we CAN say you embrace Kissinger's policIes ....

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
84. And it means that she will continue to destroy governments with the acceptance of American
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:10 PM
Feb 2016

voters, agreeing the GOP restoration by waiting for an IS-like State to set up so a Bush-like Marshall Plan could provide federal contracts to the Warmonger Industrial Complex. She will continue to drain the economy from the workers to the Elite. So let all of you folks that want to get poor vote for the status quo, candidate. Obama is back in the Middle East sending more and more troupes, just like Hillary said at the debate (Feb 11, 2016): It is what she wants; and Obama can make it so. That is what I heard at that debate.

vdogg

(1,384 posts)
144. That's quite a big strawman you built there
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:47 PM
Feb 2016

At no time has Hillary stated that she has adopted Kissenger's philosophy, and you know it. She consulted with prior Secretaries of State (plural, because it wasn't just Kissinger) prior to taking the job. This is prudent when taking on responsibility of that magnitude. You can disagree with someone philosophically and still find their insight valuable when it comes to running the day to day operations of a department.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
145. Just the image of her embracing him during an election campaign
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:01 PM
Feb 2016

The decision to print that photo as part of the campaign message - the association is there by choice ... The implication is that she is allied with his cause ...

You don't make those choices without repercussions ...

Kissinger is reviled ... You don't embrace the devil without expecting to get burned ... Whether she embraces his philosophy is almost beside the point ...the error is done

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
33. Sanders supporters must also LOVE Eugene V. Debs
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:37 AM
Feb 2016

A portrait of Debs, who originally supported the Russian Revolution and the Bolsheviks before turning away, hangs on Bernie's Congressional office wall.

 

AOR

(692 posts)
99. Pretty telling...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:27 PM
Feb 2016

where reactionaries and defenders of the power and privilege of a very small ruling class of capital, war, and Imperialism stand when they spit on Eugene Debs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence."

--Eugene Debs

"What can Labor do for itself? The answer is not difficult. Labor can organize, it can unify; it can consolidate its forces. This done, it can demand and command."

--Eugene Debs

"Private appropriation of the Earth’s surface, the natural resources, and the means of life is nothing less a crime than a crime against humanity, but the comparative few who are beneficiaries of this iniquitous social arrangement, far from being viewed as criminals meriting punishment, are the exalted rulers of society, and the people they exploit gladly render them homage and obeisance."

--Eugene Debs

"The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles."

--Eugene Debs

"They tell us that we live in a great free republic; that our institutions are democratic; that we are a free and self-governing people. That is too much, even for a joke. ... Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder... And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles."

--Eugene Debs

"Ten thousand times has the labor movement stumbled and bruised itself. We have been enjoined by the courts, assaulted by thugs, charged by the militia, traduced by the press, frowned upon in public opinion, and deceived by politicians. 'But notwithstanding all this and all these, labor is today the most vital and potential power this planet has ever known, and its historic mission is as certain of ultimate realization as is the setting of the sun."

--Eugene Debs

"Yes, I am my brother's keeper. I am under a moral obligation to him that is inspired, not by any maudlin sentimentality but by the higher duty I owe myself. What would you think me if I were capable of seating myself at a table and gorging myself with food and saw about me the children of my fellow beings starving to death."

--Eugene Debs

"If it had not been for the discontent of a few fellows who had not been satisfied with their conditions, you would still be living in caves. Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization. Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation."

--Eugene Debs

"Nothing is more humiliating than to have to beg for work, and a system in which any man has to beg for work stands condemned. No man can defend it."

--Eugene Debs

"I don't want you to follow me or anyone else. If you are looking for a Moses to lead you out of the capitalist wilderness, you will stay right where you are. I would not lead you into this promised land if I could because if I could lead you in, someone else could lead you out."

--Eugene Debs

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."

--Eugene Debs

"Every solitary one of these aristocratic conspirators and would-be murderers claims to be an arch-patriot; every one of them insists that the war is being waged to make the world safe for democracy. What humbug! What rot! What false pretense! These autocrats, these tyrants, these red-handed robbers and murderers, the "patriots," while the men who have the courage to stand face to face with them, speak the truth, and fight for their exploited victims-they are the disloyalists and traitors. If this be true, I want to take my place side by side with the traitors in this fight."

--Eugene Debs

"When we are in partnership and have stopped clutching each other's throats, when we have stopped enslaving each other, we will stand together, hands clasped, and be friends. We will be comrades, we will be brothers, and we will begin the march to the grandest civilization the human race has ever known."

--Eugene Debs


"They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war, and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people."

--Eugene Debs


"I am guilty of believing that the human race can be humanized and enriched in every spiritual inference through the saner and more beneficent processes of peaceful persuasion applied to material problems rather than through wars, riots and bloodshed."

--Eugene Debs

“As long as he owns your tools he owns your job, and if he owns your job he is the master of your fate. You are in no sense a free man. You are subject to his interest and to his will. He decides whether you shall work or not. Therefore, he decides whether you shall live or die. And in that humiliating position any one who tries to persuade you that you are a free man is guilty of insulting your intelligence.”

-- Eugene Debs

"Beware of capitalism's politicians and preachers! They are the lineal descendants of the hypocrites of old who all down the ages have guarded the flock in the name of patriotism and religion and secured the choicest provender and the snuggest booths for themselves by turning the sheep over to the ravages of the wolves.”

-- Eugene Debs





 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
124. What's funny is they don't even seem to realize how out of step they are.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:48 PM
Feb 2016

Imagine living in such a bubble that you actually think everyone else agrees with you that Kissinger is great and labor leaders are bad.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
113. So was the OP
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:13 PM
Feb 2016

which you would know if you weren't so incredibly tied to your nominee. This place gets more ridiculous by the day.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
49. Because Bernie has publicly and proudly touted
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:27 AM
Feb 2016

his friendship with Stalin.

Oh, wait. . .

But nice try at a false equivalence.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
114. Nope - just his economic ideas
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:14 PM
Feb 2016

Or should I have said Marx? I don't know why I even go to this GD-P forum - it's a sewer.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
37. We should NOT be judged by those with whom we consult
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:51 AM
Feb 2016

We can learn from everyone. As a young man Bernie Sanders consulted the writings of a variety of political thinkers.

"He (Bernie Sanders) read psychology, sociology and history. He read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky."

Politico: Bernie Sanders has a secret

I certainly don't think that makes Bernie or his supporters admirer of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
60. You are not required to praise everyone you consult.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

Clinton has repeatedly praised Kissinger, and publically stated that he guides much of her foreign policy thinking.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
123. More importantly, Kissinger praised Hillary
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:35 PM
Feb 2016

Said he was the best SOS he'd ever seen,, or to that effect.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
75. She didn't just consult him
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:54 AM
Feb 2016

she praised him and his policies. She calls him a friend and trusted adviser.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
105. Oh dear, he read books from people Americans have been instructed to hate
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:37 PM
Feb 2016

I've read the Little Red Book. I even own a copy, as I do writings from Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.

I also own Mein Kampf. Why? Because it is a historical primary source.

I also own the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and I'm Jewish.

Here's the difference. Kissinger is a WAR CRIMINAL!

What is this? "We Love Henry" Day?

 

think

(11,641 posts)
41. I supported Obama but I didn't support Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Eric Holder, or Hillary Clinton
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:03 AM
Feb 2016

as part of his administration. There is room for nuance.

That said I don't support Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee and it does bother me that she's a Kissinger fan....

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
42. Obama was forced to disavow Rev. Wright, but Hillary is allowed
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:06 AM
Feb 2016

To tout her friendship with that war criminal????? Just WTF?????

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
43. Reluntantly, I have to agree
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:07 AM
Feb 2016

The reason I may hesitate is I do not care for
this Hillary/Bernie war. It is not supposed to be
personal.

But her cozening up to Kissinger is putrid,
to say the least.

I was drafted and spent two years in hell.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
44. Senator Sanders showed us what he is made of, fitting on the eve
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:12 AM
Feb 2016

of Lincoln's birthday.

I have students from Vietnam and from Chile this term. All of them have family and friends whose lives were adversely affected by the actions of this monster.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
45. but. but. but he is famous and all that
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:22 AM
Feb 2016

Like Hillary is famous and should be able to hang out with the famous people .

SCantiGOP

(13,856 posts)
47. what a ridiculous,
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:25 AM
Feb 2016

convoluted OP.
Try to post some positive things, instead of just trying to piss off everybody on the other side.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
52. Here's a positive post: the ghosts of 2,000,000 southeast Asians silently
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:31 AM
Feb 2016

salute Senator Sanders.

Joined in solidarity by tens of thousands of Latin American ghosts.

 

lobodons

(1,290 posts)
51. President Bill Clinton was one of the best presidents of all time
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:31 AM
Feb 2016

While at same time Bill Clinton also received advice from his predecessors George Bush and Ronald Reagan.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
57. And she so PROUD of being praised by
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:38 AM
Feb 2016

and her friendship with one of the greatest butchers of the last half of the 20th century. No shame. Kissinger has the blood of millions on his hands.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
61. for all of Kissinger's faults, Kissinger is not a COMMUNIST like Cornel West and Noam Trotsky
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:42 AM
Feb 2016

so if I had to chose, I'd choose the former, not the latter.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
68. I'm sure a lot of my childhood pals would agree
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:46 AM
Feb 2016

except for the ones who died in Viet Nam.

Welcome to the ignore list.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
78. Really, you would choose someone responsible
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:59 AM
Feb 2016

for torture, murder and illegal wars that killed millions over people who has done no such thing? Also, what is the basis of your determination that Chomsky (Noam Trotsky? Really? How juvenile) and West are "communists?

Let me clue you in on a secret: J. Edgar Hoover is not a reliable judge of character

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
96. WOW
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:25 PM
Feb 2016

Someone who likes Kissinger more than Noam Chomsky and supports Hillary...

I am not surprised... Very sad I am.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
120. Noam Chomsky says things about our country (assuming you're also an American)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:21 PM
Feb 2016

that should make any patriot cringe. And you don't need to be a conservative to do the cringing.

At least Kissinger appreciates what this great nation has given him (and the world).

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
121. Noam Chomsky tells the ugly truths...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:31 PM
Feb 2016

and yes they do hurt

I am no patriot - that is a abhorrent notion to me

I am a human. I live on earth.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
122. well then you're far out of the American mainstream;
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:33 PM
Feb 2016

I'm not. Hence why I oppose Noam Chomsky and Cornel West. Is America flawed? Of course. What nation isn't?

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
95. Was that back when she was President of Young Republicans in college? I
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:24 PM
Feb 2016

know it couldn't have been when she was a corporate Walmart lawyer.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
97. Yes, see in 1964, when Bernie was organizing sit-ins for Civil Rights, Hillary supported a
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:26 PM
Feb 2016

presidential candidate that was against and voted against the CRA.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
71. These are the "advisors" she keeps
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

around, many of them hardcore neocons and liberal interventionists.

If Bernie really wants to zing her on foreign policy during the next debate, he needs to bring up her laughing about Gaddafi being brutally murdered (what potential world leader actually goes on TV and laughs at having another world leader killed?) and the fact that another one of her mentors, Albright, thought that the sanctions on Iraq which resulted in over half a million children dying (lack of medicine was a big reason) were worth it.

Hillary has a treasure trove of awful foreign policy decisions, things any bright person would be ashamed to bring into the public spotlight.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
77. For an apt comparison:
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:58 AM
Feb 2016

If you support Sanders, then you support Rand Paul - and not even tangentially. Now that's a profound insult to humanity.

BTW, fuck Rand Paul.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
79. Affirming the consequent is a common fallacy made by the irrational mind
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

Affirming the consequent is a common fallacy made by the irrational mind, as is a dramatic lack of objective evidence to support a premise.

However, I'm quite confident you will creatively rationalize your fallacy as something it is not. Your bias depends on doing as much. I wish you good luck and god-speed, little fella.

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
86. hmmm
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:13 PM
Feb 2016

An arrogant statement. One can support a candidate, yet not support his /her associates and vice versa, case in point..... I did not and will not ever support the Bush / Cheney administration or actually recognize them as americans, but I do support and have been a strong advocate for Colin Powell.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
89. have been a strong advocate for Colin Powell.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:19 PM
Feb 2016

That's nice.

But I wouldn't trust a word he said.
He didn't lie about breaking a vase or wrecking the car, y'know.

He lied us into starting an unnecessary war with a country that had not attacked us.

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
110. He lied?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:53 PM
Feb 2016

He lied, or he was conveying the information and intelligence he was given, the sames as what every democrat, yes including Hillary was given and what some voted for in 2002?

Colin Powell was/is an exceptional military leader who I believe got caught up in the Bush/Cheney bullshit.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
154. Before you go touting your support of Powell, it would behoove you I think
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:48 AM
Feb 2016

to learn what that ass kisser was up to in the cover up of My Lai. See, it all comes back to Vietnam and Cambodia. kissinger is a war criminal, but Powell aided, abetted and enabled war crimes.

itsrobert

(14,157 posts)
88. Guity by association.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:18 PM
Feb 2016

I heard Bernie say on the debate that Hillary is a great friend of his. So if you support Bernie you support Hillary and by this logic you support Kissinger and Nixon and Pat Buchanan and the KKK. Go figure.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
103. When asked if why soldiers could die in high numbers for him, Hitler said:
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:30 PM
Feb 2016

"It's a good thing young men don't think." Sounds like Kissinger sort of ripped off Hitler.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
101. I agree with you 100%. When did DU become we love Kissinger channel because Hillary likes him?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:27 PM
Feb 2016

DU has lost its mind.

 

Autumn Colors

(2,379 posts)
130. If anyone has a YouTube channel
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:58 PM
Feb 2016

I'd love to see someone make a nice video tutorial for younger voters about why this is so abhorrent, as there may be quite a few voters out there whose only knowledge of Kissinger comes from school history books published by those who would like to whitewash history.

Make it go viral ....

DFW

(54,055 posts)
152. Following this logic......
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 01:13 AM
Feb 2016

If you liked Tip O'Neill, you liked Reagan
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Verrry interesting, but....



Somehow, I managed to like Tip O'Neill and still despise Reagan
 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
153. Kissinger occupies an entirely different category of sub-human
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:12 AM
Feb 2016

than Reagan (think Hitler).

So if someone says he or she likes Hitler, you can still like that person even while "despising" Hitler?

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»If you support Hillary, y...