Did BERNIE ever say it was himself in this photo?

[bravenak]

I am not seeing anywhere him claiming that the photo was himself.

[Senator Tankerbell]

1. I don't know but I think it is him.

Look at the hands.

[bravenak]

7. I get that

But they looked alot alike. We need the Senator to confirm because the photog was not close (relationship wise) to either.

[thereismore]

10. Why are you pushing this? It is not important. It's a distraction. Is that why you are pushing it?

[bravenak]

12. Fine.

[mhatrw]

94. The depths of this little episode of ratfuckery are truly unfathomable.

Sally Cook, the retired government lawyer University of Chicago alumni who contacted the University of Chicago archives to get the caption of the photo changed, conceded to Time magazine reporter Sam Frizell that she could not "say for certain the man is not Sanders."

So what made it so important to her that she felt she needed to change the caption in order to identify the individual at a 40+-year-old sit in as some long dead acquaintance rather than as Bernie Sanders?

Who then told Sam Frizell, Time magazine's Clinton pool reporter, about this trifling photo flap? What induced Sam Frizell to devote 1000 words to this complete non-story without making any attempt to contact the original photographer?

What then induced the WaPo's Jonathan Capehart, the live in partner of a rich Clinton campaign staffer, to pick up this complete non-story and spin it into a direct attack of Sanders' integrity without making any attempt to contact the original photographer?

Why did corporate cable news then trot out Capehart on 10 different shows to promulgate this complete non-story?

[bravenak]

98. I do not know the answers!!

[yodermon]

101. Perfect summary of why this stinks and is not just "ho hum, who cares, not important,

just an old picture".

It took *effort* and got *airtime* dammit. Apropos of *nothing*.

Please make yours an OP.

[Ferd Berfel]

52. For God sake people - This has already been postsed here

http://www.phaidon.com/agenda/photography/articles/2016/february/02/when-danny-lyon-met-bernie-sanders/





Skinner - why are you allowing lies to continue to be re-hashed? Just asking?

[thereismore]

2. Bernie did not say it. But it is him. The photographer confirmed it. nt

[bravenak]

4. I think we need to hear it from him now. This is too much.

[JonLeibowitz]

6. What is too much? The photographer speaking out and saying he took a photo?

[bravenak]

9. Fighting about it is so silly

Waste of time, nobody will convince anybody else. I hope he puts a stop to this. I want black voters getting the attention for our issues not fighting about a photo!

[JonLeibowitz]

15. You're the one disputing what the photographer said, not me.

You can end the fighting by agreeing with the photographer and the historical record.

[JudyM]

107. WTH?! You're the one who posted it.

[bravenak]

115. I posted one question

And the fact that I never once heard him claim this was him. Honestly. We all KNOW HE WAS THERE. Both men spoke at that gathering. They looked alike. Fine if they got mixed up, but only bernie is still around, bruce died.
I think it is not an actual scandal.

[thereismore]

8. Why now? This is not important. His record is out there. nt

[bravenak]

11. Damn!!

Black voters are slightly more important and I want the attention on us not this photo.

[thereismore]

17. You are cracking me up! Then post something about black voters, not some photo of a white guy. nt

[bravenak]

19. But everybody is all interested in this. Sadly. Okay I will once people calm down.

[thereismore]

23. Busted!

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. Yeah I can see how posting this OP furthers THAT notion.

[CoffeeCat]

76. So it's the victim's responsibility to clean up the mess and damage caused by liars?

They should be apologizing to SANDERS!!!

It is not Sander's responsibility to refute every ridiculous slander and lie.

[LexVegas]

3. No. Likely because it is not. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

5. The photographer who took the picture disagrees with you.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Why would you trust the photographer

when you have the opinion of LexVegas?

[SheenaR]

33. Truer words have never been uttered n/t

[JonLeibowitz]

55. .

[dchill]

14. I, on the other hand, can see...

That it IS him.

[Squinch]

16. But there is a larger point to all of this. This is the proof that Bernie supporters use to say

he was and has always been a civil rights leader.

This, even if it is Bernie, does not make him a civil rights leader. My brother led sit ins and protests and marches in colleges during these years. He is no civil rights leader. He was a college kid doing what college kids did in those years.

After this event, the things that his supporters say make him a civil rights leader were: marching ... somewhere, voting for Jesse Jackson and "calling for" things.

That's all I've seen. These things do not make a civil rights leader. They just don't.

[Senator Tankerbell]

26. Sanders has never called himself a civil rights leader.

When he has talked about it, he has made it clear that he played a small role. If you want to criticize his supporters for hyperbole, that's fine. But I don't think you can blame him for that. Supporters of Clinton engage in hyperbole too but I don't blame her for that.

[Squinch]

42. His supporters are saying he was a civil rights leader. He wasn't.

This supposed leadership in the civil rights movement is the reason most often given why people of color should support him.

People of color are told over and over that they just don't understand how much he has done for them and they just don't understand that he is the only one who is on their side. Because he has done so much for civil rights and people of color.

But, he just hasn't.

[Senator Tankerbell]

49. Not all of his supporters say the same things.

Some folks get a little over excited in their advocacy for a candidate they believe in. I will acknowledge that I have seen that too. People over-reaching a bit with their descriptions of civil rights leadership. I do think it is worth noting his participation though. It's not as if it was the most popular thing for white people to be doing at the time. It's an indicator of an attitude toward racial equality. In that respect, his record is much more consistent than that of his opponent.

[Empowerer]

69. He's getting lots of credit, as he deserves, for doing that

But while it was not overly popular everywhere, working in the movement was pretty popular among college students in areas such as Chicago.

And there were different levels and degrees of participation. Sanders participated in sit-ins and demonstrations at the University of Chicago, which was a relatively safe place for a young white man to be an activist. Again, I'm not taking ANYTHING away from him - what he did was great.

But there were people who went much further. Young white folks, for example, who went South to register voters, protest, march, participate in the Freedom Rides, etc. This was scary, dangerous stuff. Some did not make it back alive, some were scarred for life. Some were cut off from their families, lost jobs, etc.

Again - and it's a shame I have to keep repeating this, but too many people here treat anything less than effusive praise as a vicious attack on Sanders - I am not suggesting that Sanders was wrong not to do those things or that his contribution is in any way diminished because he didn't. But I point this out to say that there were people who were doing extraordinary, dangerous, heroic things and I reserve descriptions and labels such as "hero," and leader to people like them. It's not fair to them for their work and legacy to be lumped together with the work of others, however meaningful, that did not involve the sacrifice that theirs did.

And I don't think that Sanders would wish to be put into the same category of these people. He contributed to the movement in the way he chose to and he did his part. But he should not be held up as some kind of civil rights icon. He did what all decent people of his generation should have done.

[Senator Tankerbell]

78. I don't disagree with what you're saying.

I just know that there are some opponents of his who DO want to diminish his involvement and don't want to give him credit for anything. That is frustrating to see as well.

[Squinch]

77. But the thing is that for kids of that age at that time, it WAS the most popular thing for

white people to be doing at the time. It was what college kids did.

And no, he is not more consistent than she is in working for the rights and opportunities for people of color.

Try this article that compares Hillary's and Bernie's activities in the 60's and 70's: https://medium.com/breaking-down-onanti-hillary-meme-at-a-time/clinton-and-sanders-the-60-s-and-70-s-beyond-the-memes-159c3261c24d#.jq53heqhk

And this one where the NAACP gives her rates her at 96% indicating a pro-affirmative action stance: http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Hillary_Clinton_Civil_Rights.htm#06n-NAACP

[Senator Tankerbell]

81. I disagree with your reading of history on this issue.

[Squinch]

83. Ok. But it was lovely having an interaction with an adult about it. Thank you for that.

[BillZBubb]

132. That is UTTER BULLSHIT.

It wasn't what a majority of college kids did and you are either lying or ignorant on this subject.

[Squinch]

136. See post 83. It doesn't apply to you.

[Empowerer]

51. What Squinch said . . .

[Empowerer]

50. One of his supporters has promoted him several posts today to "civil rights hero."

They've been cutting and pasting the same post all over the place, so it may likely find its way into this thread any moment now.

[Senator Tankerbell]

53. I wouldn't use that phrase.

I am a supporter of his. I don't know why there is an insistence on holding Sanders accountable for the words of every single one of his supporters.

[bravenak]

28. Leader

That is the thing
Leader

[frylock]

39. Whut? Nobody claimed Bernie was a civil rights leader.

Civil rights activist is what he is referred to.

[jeff47]

74. Hey look! More lying!!

Activist. Not leader.

Please stop lying and then attacking your lie.

[Squinch]

82. ... sigh ...

[Kalidurga]

18. No he has never said it was him.

And somehow I think if he isn't spending every minute of his time on the internet that he was even aware of the controversy. Since it apparently made the NY Times we might get some clarification from Bernie himself. Though if I was him I would just let people argue.

[bravenak]

21. Okay.

I feel you. I still want him to just say IT WAS ME! Or THATS NOT ME!
Then we can shut up about this photo.

[libtodeath]

20. A google image search reveals hundreds of pictures

does he have to autograph each one to suit people?

[bravenak]

24. Just say it was himself is good enough for me

[libtodeath]

30. He has to answer to you?

[bravenak]

32. He has to answer to the people of which i am one

[libtodeath]

46. Hope he singles you out in his next speech then

[bravenak]

48. Me too

[libtodeath]

60. Best to stay glued to the tv,am sure it will happen.

[bravenak]

63. No.

[Live and Learn]

127. He will answer you as soon as Hillary releases her transcripts. nt

[bravenak]

129. The Hillary defense, ok

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Does the derp ever end?

Do you seriously think this is an issue of any importance?

[bravenak]

25. No! I do not!

I think thats my point, dont you?

[Warren Stupidity]

27. No.

[bravenak]

29. Too bad. It is.

[femmedem]

56. I think the point is that the photo has been used to malign Sanders' integrity.

The implication is that he misled people when he used this photo on his campaign website to bolster his civil rights credentials.

Ugly swiftboating. It needs to be cleared up.

[bettyellen]

31. I doubt it. But you'd think he'd be aware and ask them to pull it? Or maybe he thought it was

himself? Not a BFD to me.
I owe you brittle, and feel guilty. Going to buy peanuts later!

[bravenak]

47. Dont feel bad. I eat all the time

Lost weight too so yes I'll take it.

[bettyellen]

54. HA. I felt so bad when my friends found your batch and ate it all. But worse when my cat

pushed past thirty guests to get all over the pizza. Shameless moochers will steal bites of anything you got, instead of hiding under the bed like good kitties should. The minute you have a morsel of food in front of you around here, they wake up and demand their cut. I'm glad that they too enjoy a good party, but leave the pizza alone!

[frylock]

34. Bernie doesn't spend a whole lot of time boasting about himself.

Not sure if you've noticed.

[Empowerer]

35. There are a lot of things that Bernie hasn't said - but that hasn't stopped his peeps from running

with it.

Bernie has never said he marched with Dr. King or that he is a civil rights "hero" or that he marched at Selma or that black people who support Hillary are victims of the Stockholm Syndrome. But you wouldn't know that by reading these boards.

Unfortunately, for Sanders, his supporters' outlandish claims and over-bearing attempts to shove them down everyone's throats do him a lot of damage since lots of folks probably don't know that he is not as obnoxious, narrow-minded and tone-deaf as some of his most vocal supporters.

[bravenak]

44. This is exactly what I see

[betsuni]

119. Exactly!

[whatchamacallit]

36. You don't care what the answer is

because no matter what it is you will simply, instantly move on to the next subterfuge.

[bravenak]

43. Think so? Sad

[Donkees]

37. He used the photo in his "50th Anniversary March on Washington" video I posted few minutes ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511214157

[bravenak]

41. Interesting

[Fumesucker]

38. It's really frustrating that Bernie won't play the game the way you want him to

[bravenak]

40. I guess

[Jarqui]

45. I did some research on this in Nov '15

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1258162

Someone found the photo and took it and a copy of it to Sanders office for signature in 2010

[valerief]

57. Bernie. Didn't. Take. The. Picture. nt

[bravenak]

58. But. He. Would. Know.

[valerief]

59. No. He. Wouldn't. But. The. Photographer. Would.

And he says it's Bernie.

[bravenak]

61. His. Friends. Overruled. That. Photographer. We. Need. Bernie. To. Stop. This. Stupid. Discussion.

[valerief]

64. His. Friends. Don't. Matter. The. Photographer. Knows. nt

[bravenak]

66. Was not close to bernie or bruce. Just a photog

[thesquanderer]

80. Not necessarily.

If someone showed me a picture from 50 years ago (yes, I was alive), and it was in a place I'd have likely been, and the person looked like me but it wasn't a full head-on shot, I'd probably say, I guess that's me. If someone said, hey you know, it could have been so-and-so, he'd have been there too, and the two of you look similar, I'd probably say, okay, I guess it could be him. Why assume the subject would necessarily know for sure? In fact, if it were me, I'd probably take the word of the photographer. If he told me, "yeah, I took that picture, it was you," I'd tend to believe him.

But I tend to agree with your posts #9 and #11. Is this really important? Which is why I'm surprised you posted the OP in the first place.

I don't think anyone doubts he participated in events like this. I'm not sure why people are making such an issue over the pic, one way or the other.

[valerief]

85. I didn't post the OP. You're responding to the wrong person. nt

[thesquanderer]

87. Whoops, sorry! Weird...

...when I look at my post, it says "Response to bravenak (Reply #58)" - not sure how it ended up otherwise!

[valerief]

88. As Jeb! say: Stuff happens.

[libtodeath]

79. Yes but he clearly knew that the OP would be demanding proof

50 whatever years later so he should have signed it "to my friend bravenak".

[BainsBane]

62. I read it was posted on his website

IIRC, so the implication certainly was it was him. He evidently thought it was.

[bravenak]

68. I think he took it down

Maybe he realized it was Bruce

[BainsBane]

71. That's good

but certainly having it up there constitutes an implied claim it was a picture of himself.

[bravenak]

84. It really wasnt helpful

[KeepItReal]

65. I don't care if it is Luke Skywalker in that photo

At that time, a young Hillary Clinton supported Barry Goldwater who voted AGAINST THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

So keep on trippin on some alleged identity mixup.

At least my candidate never had to evolve on whether civil rights for my parents were good or bad.

See what I did there? Substance. Try having some in this campaign about ISSUES.

[bravenak]

67. I dont care who it is either

[Squinch]

89. OK, try this then:

https://medium.com/breaking-down-onanti-hillary-meme-at-a-time/clinton-and-sanders-the-60-s-and-70-s-beyond-the-memes-159c3261c24d#.jq53heqhk

[KeepItReal]

93. Clinton's Evolution on Civil Rights in the 60s from a primary source:

[Squinch]

95. Which is acknowledged in that article, but it goes deeper into the reality. Did you read it?

[KeepItReal]

96. I don't need some blogger's research when I have Hillary's own words.

That's called Primary Source material.

[Squinch]

97. Too bad. It's a very interesting juxtaposition of two life paths. Nothing to be afraid of.

[KeepItReal]

99. "Nothing to be afraid of."

[Squinch]

100. Yes. That's what I said.

[tk2kewl]

70. Bernie does not spend much time talking about himself. He prefers to stick to the issues.

But here is a video he produced a couple of years ago, and that picture appears in the video. I imagine that Bernie thinks it's a picture of him too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511214085

[bravenak]

73. It really doesnt matter i think he was in the crowd in one photo and at the podium in another

[tk2kewl]

75. So if it doesn't matter why did you post the question as an OP?

[SidDithers]

86. DU rec for all kinds of reasons...nt

Sid

[bravenak]

92. Very important topic.

[kiva]

90. Is it time for "Is this Bernie?" already?

Damn, could have sworn that it wasn't on the schedule until next week. Oh well, keeps people from making up things about his policies I guess, so a win for him.

[bravenak]

91. It was on the schedule, did you get your calendar?

[kiva]

108. No, and I want it!

I missed the February circumcision thread and can't remember when the March breastfeeding at Red Lobster thread is due.

[bravenak]

109. Allright

This month is mostly african american issues due to black history month

That mean photo threads, chicken menu threads, angry discussions about what black people say, MLK seances daily, perhaps a few MALCOLMX seances, rounded out by more wheres waldoing.

[kiva]

110. Pretty packed schedule.

I'm not sure how they're going to work in the usual pitbull threads, not to mention the political topics being an election year and all. I suppose as long as no one starts talking about corn flake breading on the chicken they can manage it all.

[bravenak]

111. Not much time left

We gotta bang it out on weekends

[kiva]

112. Then women's history month in March.

I'm thinking we may need to start working overtime.

[bravenak]

113. Gotta find some breastfeeding scandals in tacobell

[kiva]

114. But then it would be a

Chihuahua instead of a pitbull, don't know if it would draw as large of a crowd.

Sorry, on my way out the door...enjoyed this tour of DU's popular topics

[bravenak]

116. Me too, later!

[Sheepshank]

102. no...in fact during Maddow's Forum he said he didn't think it was him

so there is that.

[Jester Messiah]

103. Just "asking questions" eh?

Reporting on the controversy, one might say. Hm, that reminds me of one of our major "news" outlets.

[bravenak]

104. Don Lemon?

[Jester Messiah]

105. More like Cavuto. [nt]

[bravenak]

106. Thats not polite

[Jester Messiah]

123. Neither is what's being done to Bernie's record.

I suppose that's primary season for you. Escalations, tit-for-tat allegations, hard feelings and alienation. I can but follow the examples set.

[bravenak]

124. His record is not in danger

Many do not view his record the same way as you

[Jester Messiah]

126. Perhaps not so many as you'd like to believe.

But, the truth will out.

[bravenak]

128. It doesnt matter what i believe

[Jester Messiah]

131. True enough.

Facts are stubborn things.

[HooptieWagon]

117. Yes, he did.

And the photographer identified him. That standing photo and the sitting photos were from the same roll of film. Those photos and the out takes from the roll of film were all of the same subject, Bernie Sanders, who was leading the sit-in protest of Univ of Chicago discriminatory housing practices.

[bravenak]

118. Can you tell me where bernie said that?

[betsuni]

120. Today I learned that photographers never make mistakes when identifying their subjects.

I did not realize they were infallible, good to know. Why waste time checking with the research department before publishing photos? Thanks, DU!

[bravenak]

121. Me too. This was a stupid day

[betsuni]

122. I was reading threads about the smoking photo this morning

thinking it was about something. That was stupid.

[bravenak]

125. I know. I just cant figure today out

[BillZBubb]

133. And you contributed mightily to that!

Congrats!

[bravenak]

135. Ditto!

[libtodeath]

130. Did Hillary wipe her server with a tissue or a cloth

she needs to come clean about all she knows regarding her server being wiped.

[bravenak]

134. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511217781

[libtodeath]

137. I expect her to answer herself.

[ucrdem]

138. That really is the question. Letting surrogates propagate false memes is sneaky.

And that includes letting AmericanCrosroads.org to put up really disgusting pro-Sanders anti-Clinton ads like the one bashing Chelsea and Hillary. He knows it's happening because Hillary told him it was in a debate. His silence on the matter is disturbing. But the long and the short of it is that hiding behind his "supporters" or campaign staff is starting to look like a mean trick. The buck stops with Bernie.

[bravenak]

139. I agree with you

It really is up to him.

[DesertRat]

140. I agree