DKOS: Why I Have Switched from Bernie to Hillary

[brooklynite]

...snip...

I'm tired of idealistic campaign rhetoric. When Trump talks about we're just gonna win, win, win, big wall, smack China, we know it's all bluster. Bernie talks about single payer and free college tuition for all but that is no more realistic with this Congress than a magic wall. I don't even WANT free college tuition for affluent young people. In some countries they can do it because relatively few go to universities--not so here. It's completely unbelievable.

And then I watched the debates. I have a lot of reservations about Hillary Clinton. There are things she has done and votes, e.g., Iraq, she has cast that I can't accept. But I watched the debates. She is intelligent, composed, knowledgeable across the board. We can argue about labels but Clinton is a liberal with a liberal voting record. Is she too hawkish? I think so. I think she is too pro-Israel. But I don't think she's reckless. She had positions and rhetoric on criminal justice twenty years ago that I didn’t like but I think she has learned and grown as progressive people do.

And unlike Obama, whom I respect greatly, she would not make the mistake of thinking her personal charisma will create a kumbaya wave in Washington. She knows the Republicans well enough to call them "my enemy." She will go after them rather than try to convert them.

Finally, I am sick of the Hillary-bashing. I can't think of another politician in my conscious lifetime who has caught more shit than she, from people making the White House travel office a cause celebre to accusing her of killing her friend, Vince Foster, to Whitewater, to being (gasp!) a lesbian, or shrew, or thick-legged (gasp, again) to Benghazi, to ...fill in the blank. And it is misogynistic. I know people who consider her laughably dishonest and I ask them, what exactly, has she lied about? Oh, they say, everyone knows--because they have been exposed to relentless bashing of her that has not been refuted strongly enough by people on the left.
I am a socialist feminist. I believe there is no true socialism without feminism and no true feminism without socialism. I have worked in various ways to further both causes. As a citizen of the country I have a more particular responsibility to vote for the person I think is best qualified at this particular moment for what can well be considered the most important position in the world. I have decided that is Hillary Clinton.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/11/1483752/-Why-I-Have-Switched-from-Bernie-to-Hillary?detail=email

[Binkie The Clown]

1. Another vote for hopelessness. Let's just give up. Idealism is dead.

Let your superiors make the decisions without your interference.

[Nonhlanhla]

8. No, for real hope

There are many of us who are not filled with hope when we listen to Bernie's promises. I know I don't First of all, I don't trust his revolution, because what I've seen of some of his supporters, a lot of them seem a fickle bunch who will drop him the moment they feel he has compromised. Secondly, I know that Hillary Clinton knows how politics work. I know that she has a vision for using the political process to achieve good change in this country. Does she promise the moon? No. But she gives me hope for REAL progress.

So yes, we CAN, yes, she CAN.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. I don't know about Hillary, either, but I agree with your assessment of Sanders.

[Fawke Em]

18. Her "vision" fills me with dred.

[Nonhlanhla]

21. Which part? nt.

[tonedevil]

39. The part...

where she brings superpredators to heel.

[tecelote]

24. We all agree Hillary knows how politics works.

The problem is that it has been working against our interests.

[Fearless]

30. Don't worry, Hillary will switch her views to maintain her popularity!

[JDPriestly]

54. Actually, Bernie is the one with the experience in Congress working on a day-to-day

basis with Republicans.

And she is extremely negative.

[katmondoo]

2. I agree

Some times I waver but in the end I go back to Hillary

[Ron Green]

3. It's a weak argument, completely avoiding the issue of

a long-overdue sea change in the political economy.

[earthshine]

4. Hillary will give you socialism? Really?

You will support her because she has been bashed over the years?

I submit to you that Bernie will serve your ideals better.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

5. Democratic defeatism

[mmonk]

6. Coward?

[Wilms]

7. You could have cut and pasted Hillary's rhethoric last evening...

...from one of any number of speeches by a politician.

The only thing she missed was, "God Bless America".

[SidDithers]

9. This thread should have hundreds of recs!!...

Sid

[Fawke Em]

20. Thank God it won't.

[SunSeeker]

38. God has nothing to do with it. You can thank DU anti-Hillary juries it won't.

They are the ones who have purged this site of so many of its Hillary supporters.

[Ed Suspicious]

41. Really? No.

[JDPriestly]

53. The OP makes no sense to me.

The writer claims to be a socialist but is worried that rich kids might get a free education.

That is simply incomprehensible. Sorry, but I don't think the article is for real. We shall see. But I think the author may have been a Hillary supporter from the get-go.

[SunSeeker]

55. I think it is more that the OP doesn't want the middle class paying rich kid's Berkeley tuition.

[JDPriestly]

56. Problem is that in order to make sure that rich kids don't benefit from free

tuition, you have to a) require families to file complicated, intrusive financial statements that usually only impose their burden on poor and lower middle class families (very unfair); and b) maintain a pretty good-sized bureaucracy to read those forms and decide who "deserves" free education and who does not.

Discriminating against kids based on their income divides rich from poor. It places a burden on the poor that the rich don't have to bear.

For purposes of alcohol consumption and the draft, kids are of age at 18, but for purposes of education, they are theoretically financially dependent on their parents until they at least finish college. Go figure.

Tax the parents of the richer kids to pay a fair share of the cost of education of all kids. That is the fair way to do this. Get rid of the financial forms and the bureaucracy.

Bernie's proposal to simply transfer federal tax money to the colleges that comply with simple requirements and provide tuition-free education to students makes sense to me. It eliminates the cumbersome bureaucracy that we not use to sort out who deserves financial aid and gives states an incentive to help fund good colleges for their citizens.

I strongly support Bernie Sanders' proposal for free tuition for state colleges and universities. We cannot afford not to provide free tuition at our state colleges and universities. We need a well educated and skilled workforce.

We should increase opportunities for technical training in the schools with free tuition while we are at it. Make it an even playing field. Only a student's interest and ability should be considerations in deciding on whether to go to college. Lack of money should not be a bar.

And students should graduate nearly or totally debt-free. If they work during college, it should be for living costs, not for tuition.

[SunSeeker]

57. Applying for financial aid is no more intrusive than applying for college. nt

[Fearless]

28. That is false.

[workinclasszero]

48. K&R

[DrDan]

10. "Hillary-bashing" - and it comes from both sides of the aisle . . . to include this forum

she is an incredibly strong woman to have survived the decades of constant attacks

[Fearless]

29. Truth hurts sometimes

[840high]

46. Brought on by her own actions.

[DrDan]

58. and a constant barrage of RW attacks - echoed here

[Squinch]

11. Great article!

[bvar22]

12. Oh, Yes. I REALLY believe the person who wrote that is former Bernie supporter.

This is a ruse, one that has been used to death in American politics.

I could knock one out like that in about 5 minutes about how I switched from Hillary to Bernie.
Those missives are total BS.
I ESPECIALLY am amused by the claims that it is supporters that have soured someone on a candidate they previously supported, but switched because of the supporters.
What kind of idiot will believe THAT line?
What kind of idiot would USE such transparent nonsense.

Nothing about important ISSUES, Policies, Track Records.....nothing at all.

[JoeyT]

32. Oh it's a ruse that long predates American politics, and still exists outside of it.

There's nothing a true believer loves more than an infidel seeing the light and joining their cause. It tells them "See! People that aren't with you know you're right too!", and they'll believe it with all their heart.

About all KOS left out was how he used to practice witchcraft and worship Satan before finding Jesus.

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. Us mean old Bernie supporters chased a fellow supporter

toward Hillary. LMAO.

I DON'T THINK SO.

[Hortensis]

43. Actually, Bvar, I initially thought the ultra-ardent,

intolerant, rigid and even hostile character of some of Sanders's supporters, so unpleasantly like the far right, only reflected their own nature, not his. They, however, and clues in him that he might really be like them, caused me to go read about far-left-wing movements and those who join them. Descriptions of attitudes and behaviors fit to a T, including the strong resemblance between extremists on the right and left, and that was the end of any possible chance that I could support him in the primary. His contempt for me and my ideology is terribly real and IMO reflects very serious personality and judgement flaws in him, not because liberals deserve it.

So, in spite of wanting many things he would also like to achieve, if he could, I believe the coming months will only reveal more of his deficiencies. That I already recognize many I do owe squarely to revelations from the behaviors of many here on GD-P. If he were to win the primary, it would be without my vote. I would vote for him in the general as the Democratic nominee in spite of the fact that he despises both liberals and Democrats because there would be no viable alternative.

Call me terminally offended, and disappointed by how much less he is than we need him to be.

[LAS14]

13. What does ...snip... at the top mean? nt

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Means that some content was deleted from the original article at that point.

[Hekate]

17. It means the leading portion of the quoted article has been cut out. Due to copyright laws...

....we can only post so much of an article published elsewhere (4 paragraphs, I believe), so quote bits of it and indicate where other bits have been snipped out.

Also, and this is very important, copy the entire url into your post when quoting from somewhere else.

Some posters run quoted text into their own comments, which is confusing at best and misleading at worst. I prefer either using quotation marks or italicizing quoted text to make it clear which is which. You can locate font instructions directly above your text box when creating a post, in between the Reply title and the Message text: b for bold, i for italics, and u for underline. The next 3 I never use, but smilies allows you to click on little pictures like this one

Welcome to DU.

[closeupready]

14. Cool story, bro.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. sure.

[Joe the Revelator]

22. Voting for someone because they are sick of that person being 'bashed' has to be the silliest

argument played. If that was the case, we should all line up for Santorum.

[DefenseLawyer]

23. Luckily Republicans LOVE Hillary Clinton! Love love love love

So they will be ready to follow her leadership and experience. I can't really think of anyone that Republicans love more.

[ejbr]

25. And I switched from Hillary to Bernie

That makes them even

[Fearless]

26. If you can't beat them join them?

Why am I not surprised?

[Lordquinton]

27. "I don't even WANT free college tuition"

I think they're in the wrong party to begin with.

[Onlooker]

31. I still support Bernie, but ...

when people bash the enormous achievements of those who actually had to struggle with the great issues of the past -- whether women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, ending the Vietnam War, raising minimum wage, fighting increased tuition costs, etc. -- and they make it sound like a victory that's not perfects hardly counts and a loss represents being part of the establishment -- it is just so unfair. My support for Bernie over Hillary was really strong, but if the Bernie supporters don't stop marginalizing anyone who doesn't worship him, Hillary will secure my vote ... not only out of spite, but over deep admiration for all the women's movement has done for not only women, but for the LGBTQ community as well.

[mikehiggins]

36. Mind listing all the wonderful things HRC has done for the LGBTQ community?

Say, since her time as a Goldwater girl?

Why not just jump up to when she decided gays could get married after all?

Just curious as to what you're talking about.

[Onlooker]

45. There's a big difference between silently supporting something and being in the political forefront

Bernie is frankly Mr. Irrelevant on the big stage. Sure, as an individual he always had liberal positions, but he never pursued them on the national stage. He didn't have to do battle with the far right and the bigots who were forcing lawsuits and legislation to deny gays any rights. The Clintons were the first to meet with gay rights groups, court gay votes, appoint and nominate gays to high positions, allow gays in the military, allow gays to get security clearances, and so many other things. Hillary is deeply connected with the feminist movement which was on the forefront of gay rights. On the national stage you meet national opposition, but the Clintons helped legitimize the gay community. That's why they have so much support in the gay community. Sanders was a good guy on the issue, but he didn't do anything about gay rights. The Clintons helped legitimized gays, but in doing so they aroused the wrath of the far right that was busy winning lawsuits and passing legislation to deny gays rights. It's against that backdrop that the Clintons sought and created a path.

I remember when Bill Clinton proposed allowing gays in the military, not only the Republicans but the Democrats as well were violently opposed. Sam Nunn, the head of the Senate defense committee, threatened to stop it completely and forced Clinton to compromise with Don't Ask/Don't Tell. Yet, at the time that was progress. The country was for not gay marriage until very recently.

[EndElectoral]

33. The framing of pragmatism vs vision is really I'm an adult", "you're an idealist", so stop it!

[SunSeeker]

34. K & R

[Stuckinthebush]

35. One of many who have made this switch

Bernie has reached his high water mark.

[yourout]

40. Cough....cough.....bullshit.

As the saying goes....."I was born during the day..but not yesterday"

[elmac]

42. HRC is a force to be reckoned with

and makes a good sparring partner for Bernie. Both are training for the big event & the winner will be ready to take down any republican opponent.

[Gothmog]

44. Great story

[840high]

47. A fairy tale.

[Hydra]

49. Team Hill loves fairy tales

The one about the Fair Princess who loves everyone and will fix everything is probably their favorite one.

[libdem4life]

50. More like the Warrior Princess who will knock the crap out of everyone...Ha ha ha.

It's those Hard Choices.

[Hydra]

52. lol

That's the beauty of the fairy tale- no matter what happens, you can interpret the Princess any way you want to. She comes with tailored outfits, accents and life stories for every part of the country!

[cantbeserious]

51. We Us Together - Vs - Me MyBank And I -- The 1% Will Not Be Denied -- No Thanks

eom

[DesertRat]

59. k&r