How many young black men and women went to jail because of the Clintons ? I don't understand why

[berniepdx420]

the Clintons assumed they would win the Black vote ? ...After the 94 crime bill and welfare reform oh and let's not forget the dog whistle crap they pulled on Obama in 2008. If she had a record she was proud of we'd be hearing much more about it but instead we hear a bunch of crapola about a picture taken 50 years ago.. Come on ... this is a game... of obfuscation

Let's kill them with facts and clear headedness fellow Berners... this is the beginning of the "kitchen sink" part of the Primary...

The system is rigged..and the Clintons played a big part in rigging it...

[senz]

1. Kicked and Recommended.

Thanks for this, berniepdx420.

[bravenak]

2. Bernie voted yes on that bill

[jeff47]

3. Why do you keep saying Sanders should have opposed the Violence Against Women Act? (nt)

[bravenak]

5. Why are people not crediting The Clintons for the VAWA?

[jeff47]

8. Why credit them? You keep insisting it was wrong to vote for the VAWA. (nt)

[bravenak]

9. Yiu keep insisting only to give bernie credit for the VAWA and no blame for the rest of it

If I am to do that for Bernie, I must do so for the Clintons. Order of operations deems it so

[jeff47]

11. Wrong again.

I keep saying that the bill had good parts and bad parts.

The difference is:

Sanders denounced the "tough on crime" parts at the time, and said he was voting for the bill only because of the VAWA and the assault weapons ban.

Clinton lobbied for the "tough on crime" parts, and treated them as a major accomplishment. She believed so much in the bill that she made her "Superpredator" speech. Both Clintons cited the law, and specifically it's "tough on crime" provisions, in the 1996 campaign.

That's a rather large difference, yet you keep saying it doesn't matter at all.

[bravenak]

13. The vote counts more than denouncment

[jeff47]

16. And lobbying for it and citing its passage as a great accomplishment counts even more. (nt)

[bravenak]

17. He's a fighter! Could he not convince peope to take that part out?

He's going to convince Republicans to give black people a trillion dollars and do single payer and to do free college, this should have been a snap

[jeff47]

22. Not when both Clintons and many other Democrats are fighting to keep it all together.

The Clintons and the DLC were wanting to show they could be just as "tough on crime" as the Republicans. That didn't sit well with many in the Democratic caucus.

So they attached the AWB and the VAWA to the bill (among many other "sweeteners&quot , so that people like Sanders could be compelled to vote yes.

As for fighters, there's this other Congressman who's been in the news lately. He was blocking the bill. Then this happened:
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/18/us/blacks-relent-on-crime-bill-but-not-without-bitterness.html

[bravenak]

23. Then how will he get an agenda passed?

[berniepdx420]

4. When I am wrong I am wrong.. Sanders did vote for the Bill... mistake... how bout tackling the

other 2 points in the OP

[bravenak]

6. Bill admits it

[berniepdx420]

7. ?? huh ?? how bout tackling the issues of welfare reform and the dog whistling during the 2008

election ??

[bravenak]

14. That was 2008

[berniepdx420]

24. oh.. sorry didn't know race baiting had a statute of limitations... come on let's talk about it..

[bravenak]

25. This primary is worse.

Nothing like this from her side or support

[berniepdx420]

27. Ducking and dodging again.... What is your opinion on the race baiting tactics used by the Clintons

in SC in 2008 ???

[bravenak]

28. Hated it. This is WORSE

[berniepdx420]

30. What is worse ?... people reminding us of what happened in 2008... the irony is Hillary thinks the

Black vote is her firewall... Remember the 3 am call ? We do.. I know it hurts politically when you get called out on past transgressions ...but that's the name of the game with all the social media.. This is not worse and I think in your heart you know this man

[bravenak]

31. The anti Black lives matter stuff after netroots and seattle surpasses 08

[berniepdx420]

32. You are Mr. or Ms. Dodgy ... I'm out.. good luck in NV & SC .. you are going to need it...

[bravenak]

33. Not as much as you need it, no thank you, keep it for yourself, please.

[berniepdx420]

34. Ok.. I'll keep it.. thanks...

[SheenaR]

19. It's comments like this

that you want the uninformed voter to hear. This doesn't work here.

Most people not involved in the process do not understand the different facets of one bill.

And statements like yours try to exploit that for your side's gain.

[bravenak]

21. It is a fact

[gollygee]

10. All these posts do is make people more determined to vote for Clinton

Just to spite you.

Really, Bernie supporters. The more Bernie supporters tell people of color what to think, what to be angry about, what should be important to them and what shouldn't be, the more people get annoyed and want to vote for whatever is the opposite of you.

He has a real chance. He seems like a genuinely kind guy. I don't think he'd talk to people like this.

[msongs]

12. well at least this post doesnt make nasty comments about her clothes and hair lol nt

[gollygee]

15. Yeah I don't think Bernie would make fun of her hair or clothing either.

There's this really good candidate I'm excited about, and then there is this group of his supporters that do stuff like this.

[randys1]

29. Yeah, I feel you. Are some of these people new to the system?

Is that what explains their burn it to the ground if I dont get my way attitude?


Bernie is INSIDE the system, which is how he is able to fight it.

Pretending that you will burn it down with him in it if he isnt the nominee, makes no sense.

[berniepdx420]

26. We've heard that talking point all day... "tell people of color what to think" .obfuscate much ?

Everything is ok...we are just exercising our political heritage...

[gollygee]

35. There are different ways to word things

Some ways draw people in, and some ways turn people even further away.

[berniepdx420]

36. The system is rigged and the Clintons helped rig it...

How can anyone who isn't super rich not see that... it blows me mind

[gollygee]

37. I think

From what I've heard, the fact that she plays within the system makes her seem like a safer bet to a lot of people. They think she's more likely to win in the general election. Also, I think she feels like a known quantity. Like she isn't perfect, but people know what to expect.

I do disagree with those reasons. I think either Hillary or Bernie will win the general election handily, and we aren't going to have an opportunity like this regularly. We should take hold of it and shake things up while we can.

And I think that Bernie and Hillary are very much the same on a number of issues that are important to me, and I prefer Bernie on other issues. I do not think Hillary is awful. I don't like that she's played the game, but she's like almost every politician in that she has. I don't hate her for being the norm. I like Bernie for doing something different.

[Onlooker]

18. If anyone remembers that time ...

It was the era of Newt Gingrich's Contract on America, of a powerful religious right, and like Obama had to face, conservative Democrats, especially in the Senate. Clinton made many choices that won him favor with the black community and other groups as well, and that's why Hillary is getting so much support. The black community is wise enough to understand the complex politics of civil rights, especially when racists have a lot of power. If Trump becomes president and Republicans control the House and Senate, Sanders will end up voting for some lousy bills because the alternative will be worse. Or perhaps he'll stand on principle and let the alternative happen.

I like to use the analogy of Don't Ask/Don't Tell, which came about because Clinton tried to allow gays into the military, but the backlash was so severe (especially by Democrat Sam Nunn, who ran the relevant Senate Committee) that Clinton had no choice but to cave to a bad compromise. In that case, Clinton's mistake was advocating for gays, and the gay community generally understands it's history, and the same is true for the black and other minority communities.

I think there's a real lack of understanding of what struggle is actually like by many people of privilege or those too young to remember. If Bernie becomes president, believe me his record will be tarnished when he's forced by Democrats and Republicans alike to settle for less, lest his veto be overridden.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. "The drug war is a failed policy" - Sanders

Hillary Clinton changes the subject to heroin when asked about marijuana, and promises to incease the drug war by 10 billion dollars.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. Because the Hillaryites all proclaim 'But Bernie voted for it!'

And there was a fantastic rebuttal OP a day or so back that had all sorts of videos of Bernie railing against much of the bill but supporting it mainly for the Violence Against Women Act that was rolled into it and desperately needed.