I found a pic of Bruce Rappaport & there is no way the speaker is him for one very

[Luminous Animal]

pronounced difference and several other smaller ones. My source is time magazine: http://time.com/4108379/bernie-sanders-photo-civil-rights/

Here is the picture on its own:



Here is the "disputed" picture of Bernie

[bravenak]

1. Looks lik the same guy to me, but I am young and rarely look at black and whites.

What are the differences if you please? I swear its the same guy.

[Luminous Animal]

6. Yeah. Somehow "Bruce" found a chin.

[bravenak]

10. Chiaroscuro is playing tricks on eyes.

[Autumn]

17. Same day outpatient surgery. It takes work for a future president to look that damn good.

[thereismore]

34. Two white guys look the same to you? Oh my. Oh my.

Stop it Bravenak you don't seem to let go of this. But then again, please proceed.

[bravenak]

40. Sems like nobody can tell them apart

[thereismore]

47. Please proceed... nt

[tk2kewl]

41. Two white Jewish guys

[basselope]

36. Joking, right?

#1) Completely different ears
#2) Completely different hairline
#3) The larger chin in the bottom picture.

But ultimately, the ears are the real giveaway, in the bottom picture the person has much longer ears.

[bravenak]

38. The light hits differently changing the way it looks

Bernie can just tell us who it is

[basselope]

43. The light can't change someone's ears, neck, hairline and chin.

[bravenak]

46. Chin and acne scars look the same

[thereismore]

42. Look where the arm of the glasses crosses their sideberns. Two different people.

If you don't give up now I will be very disappointed.

[bravenak]

49. Why can't we just ask Bernie and Then take a nap?

[thereismore]

53. Because that's not needed and he has better things to do. Right now he will be speaking at the Black

American Forum in Minnesota. That's what he is doing right NOW. This sharade with the photo is below you it really is.

[bravenak]

54. Excuses excuses

People want transcrpits from hillary but cannot get a yes or no on who it was in that photo from him. Comedy. He has more important things to do. She apparently doesn't for some reason.

[thereismore]

60. I think Hillary is a saint. Do you agree?

[bravenak]

63. Stop playin

[thereismore]

65. You are a player. I am a player. Are you watching the Black Forum on Bernie2016tv?

[bravenak]

66. DIY channel

Never watch those things anymore everybody is fulla it

[thereismore]

73. Come on. So if Bernie is on a DIY channel does it make him less real?

[bravenak]

75. More real. I love the diy hosts

I love Texas Flip and move all the regulars, they rock, the snow sisters are my fav! They really rock.

[thesquanderer]

61. The photographer has already answered. He's in the best position to know. (n/t)

[bravenak]

69. Bernie is

[thesquanderer]

86. No, I think the photographer is.

I guess you missed my post in the thread you started about this at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511214506 so again...

If someone showed me a picture from 50 years ago (yes, I was alive), and it was in a place I'd have likely been, and the person looked like me but it wasn't a full head-on shot, I'd probably say, I guess that's me. If someone said, hey you know, it could have been so-and-so, he'd have been there too, and the two of you look similar, I'd probably say, okay, I guess it could be him. Why assume the subject would necessarily know for sure? In fact, if it were me, I'd probably take the word of the photographer. If he told me, "yeah, I took that picture, it was you," I'd tend to believe him.

But I agree with your posts #9 and #11 in your own thread on this... i.e. is it really important? Which is why I'm surprised you seem so invested in this. I don't think anyone doubts he participated in these events. I'm not sure why people have been making such an issue over the pic, one way or the other.

That said, the other pics that have now been posted--of Bruce in this OP and of contemporaneous pics of Bernie posted elsewhere--do seem to lock it up. The pic of the guy standing looks a whole lot more like Bernie than Bruce. But as I said, I'm not sure why it matters so much.

[bravenak]

87. I think it really doesn't matter. We know he was there whether it's bruce or bernie they do

resemble each other in the black and whites. Color is so much easier.

[angrychair]

68. We have

Earlier on, I think it was Rachel, did one-on-one interviews with a live audience (not that big a group, not more than 50 or so people) each candidate (Bernie, Hillary, Martin) one right after the other -the actual order I think was Bernie then Martin then Hillary- and at the end of each respective segment she put up a picture and asked them about it. Hillary's was her as a young child, I honestly don't remember Martin's and Bernie's was this picture. She asked him what he was thinking and feeling at that moment standing up there speaking to that group. He talked about it and he got a closing thought and they moved to the next person.

I assume that would confirm it was him.

[bravenak]

71. I'll look for it then

[angrychair]

77. I nned to myself

I'm going on memory but I could be conflating different events...if I find it I'll post....

[bravenak]

80. Ok. Because this is a non issue and needs to go away

I will see what i find. I think Capehart is reinvestigating

[angrychair]

89. I agree

Neither I not anyone should suggest he was a civil rights hero but it was a part of his life for a couple of years (3 or so) in ealier 60's. He was in the leadership of the organization there. Most while he was in Chicago. None of that is in dispute. Not sure why this picture has become such a big deal.

[Kalidurga]

82. All white people look alike

I am not kidding most white people actually do look a lot alike to me.

[DesMoinesDem]

90. Why is it that everytime I see racist posts on DU it's you?

[Purveyor]

95. Courtesy Report: Results of your Jury Service

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[DesMoinesDem]

97. Thanks for posting

[Baitball Blogger]

92. You didn't just say that, did you?

[polly7]

2. The chin alone tells you how different they are. nt.

[grasswire]

3. yes, Rapaport has a thick neck.

Bernie doesn't

[Luminous Animal]

8. Yep.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Different hair--combed back vs. combed forward. Different jawlines,

thicker neck on Rappaport.

[Jarqui]

44. Back hairline arelative to the ear lobes is way off

on the two pics.

Back of the head on both looks very different to me

From that, their skull shape looks different. Rappaport top of head to jaw seems closer to the width of his head than the other pic where the top of head to jaw seems longer.

Rappaport pics seems to have more forehead and more skin area between the side of his eyes to the hairline going horizontally.

Depth of sideburns is different (could have had a haircut ..)

Do we know the date that the Rappaport pic was taken? If it's close to the same time, I don't think they're the same person in those two pics.

[BKH70041]

5. Bottom pic; the guy in the center right is definately Peyton Manning.

Don't know who the others are.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. LOL. This is getting comical. nt

[bravenak]

12. Yep.nt

[Bobbie Jo]

13. No kidding.

[frylock]

20. We're all getting a good laugh at it.

[Arazi]

9. The hairline is different. Compare the eyeglass arms and the hairline

Is this from the same event? Because it if is, then of course the clothes are different

[TwilightGardener]

11. Bruce has no sideburns at all.

[Cheese Sandwich]

16. *sideberns

[TwilightGardener]

19. LOL.

[roguevalley]

14. Bernie still stands that way and the photog has the last word. that is him.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Anyone who has taken art classes and studied the human form can see it.

[bravenak]

18. Yeah. Me. Chiaroscuro

The acne scars. The lightness behind his chin. Same dude probably but never one hundred percent. Bernie can end this by weighing in.

[UglyGreed]

23. Maybe Bernie is waiting for when Hillary

provides some transcripts............

[bravenak]

24. Be waiting forever

[UglyGreed]

35. That's my kind of leader

BTW I think if it was to show her in a good light the transcripts would of been released in a second.

[bravenak]

37. Or not

[UglyGreed]

45. We are already getting drips and drabs

[polly7]

28. Weigh in to who?

The photo IS him. The photographer who took the picture knows who he photographed and has said so. The original photo in the archives was re-labeled years later (so, it must have had Bernie's name on it in the first place, right??) - and not re-labeled by the photographer.

Good grief.

[bravenak]

31. Looks like Bruce's WIFE says it looks like BRUCE. I'm sure the wife knows Bruce Better.

So, Bernie can end this since Bruce is dead.

[polly7]

33. Offs. nt.

[thereismore]

58. How can Bernie end it for you when you don't believe your eyes and your brain?

How would you ever believe Bernie? After all, he is just a man you want to ruin. Bruce's wife did not say it WAS Bruce did she. =You are just having fun around here aren't you.

Besides, if Bernie said that's him, what difference would it make for you? Tell me.

[bravenak]

64. I trust him more than bruces wife. Know him better

[thereismore]

70. So you trust Bernie. Then surely you trust him when he says he organized this sit-in.

Why do you need a photo of it?

[bravenak]

72. I never needed a photo

I'd love to stop this photogate thingy

[thereismore]

76. You are keeping the photo gate alive by asking a word from Bernie. Stop it if you don't need a photo

Just tell me: Do you believe that Bernie organized this sit-in? It's a simple yes-or-no question.

[thereismore]

96. Pretty please answer the question. nt

[rhett o rick]

21. Not if they have their eyes intentionally closed. nm

[beam me up scottie]

22. Or they want to keep denying him his record.

Because it's all fun and games to some.

[rhett o rick]

25. I think to some it may be fun and games but I think it's dead serious to some.

There are those in my opinion that like to think they are Democrats but worship HRC as a strong authoritarian leader. They even recognize her short comings but willing to sacrifice for a strong (tough) authoritarian leader. The better and better Sanders looks distressed them. They know that HRC can't measure up but don't want the gap to be too large. What is funny to me is when some claim that the two are close on a lot of issues. LoL, name some.

[senz]

56. It's dead serious. Destroy Bernie's civil rights cred before the SC primary.

But yes, the usual "fun and games" crowd has arrived.

"But where are the clowns? Quick, send in the clowns. Don't bother ... they're here ..."

[HooptieWagon]

26. Ears are different,...

...hairline at nape and temples is different, cheekbones different, chin is different. The clothes are different, not that they've merely changed, but look at the style... Rapport is neater dressed, better fitting clothes. Every pic of Sanders from that time looks like he grabbed any old thing from a Salvation Army free bin. Bottom pic is Sanders as photographer says.

[whatchamacallit]

30. Haha we noticed the same thing and simul-posted

[whatchamacallit]

27. A couple quick observations

The back of Bruce's head, the parietal and occipital part of the skull, is rounder and shorter than the speaker, who has a longer, steeper shape. Also this could be attributed to a haircut, but the hair at the nape and sideburns don't match in length.

[notadmblnd]

29. Is that Sanders sitting on the floor with the two girls

in the first picture?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

84. Doubt it.

No glasses, and they didn't have contacts back then. Possible he could have taken glasses off to wipe them, but as a person who wears glasses, they spend 99.9999% of the day in place, first thing that goes on in the morning, last thing that comes off at night.

[notadmblnd]

85. I noticed after I posted that he had no glasses on.

But the sweater looked similar to the one in the other pictures.

[starroute]

93. It's a minor point, but they certainly did have contacts in 1962

I got a pair in 1963 before I set off to college.

More to the point, though, the "hard" contacts of the time could only be worn for a limited period (10-12 hours, I think), so nobody engaging in a sit-in would have worn theirs.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

94. Thanks, I'm not that old,

and maybe my eye doctor at the time just didn't offer them to folks who weren't through growing, I guess. I don't think I was told about them til the mid 80s or so.

[arcane1]

32. Different chin, hairline, earlobes, etc. n/t

[moondust]

39. Bottom right corner of 2nd pic.

Side of Rappaport's face. Somebody in another thread had them switched.

The dead giveaway is the left hand of the speaker standing in the 2nd pic. Where have you seen that hand gesture before?

[HooptieWagon]

55. Always with the waving and pointing!

[Luminous Animal]

57. The photographer says that was CORE activist Bob McNamara

[moondust]

59. Okay.

The left hand gesture, though, is signature.

[senz]

48. Compare to the other Time photo of Bernie ....

Bruce does not have Bernie's chin, cheeks, and mouth.

?quality=75&strip=color&w=819

Source: http://time.com/4108379/bernie-sanders-photo-civil-rights/

[polly7]

51. You know, I could just have looked at this picture once and never heard a word about the controversy

at all and known this IS Bernie Sanders.

Apart from the obvious aging, he hasn't changed one single bit.

[senz]

62. I agree, it's Bernie

and I'm sure Bruce was a nice person, but there is a certain tenderness in Bernie's face that doesn't show at all in the photo of Bruce.

[polly7]

67. I agree with that - there's a softness there, and I also have no doubt Bruce was a very good person.

[highprincipleswork]

50. Seems extremely clear to me that guy on bottom is much TALLER.

From the picture on top of Bruce Rappaport, I can safely say the sweatered picture guy is much taller. Add to that the photographer's word and all the other physical characteristics that have been mentioned.

Also, the way he is standing is very reminiscent of Bernie even today.

Is this any way for grown adults highly committed to the political process to act?

Well, look, Bernie was intrinsically involved in the Civil Rights Movement early on. Whether anyone in the PoC community cares, that is another story.

But his passion and commitment to it is kind of impressive, as far as I can see. He put himself on the line. Doesn't really need a photo verification to account for that.

[Wig Master]

52. Oo-wee-oo I look just like Buddy Holly...

[gollygee]

74. It looks like Bernie to me

He holds himself the same way too - same style and stance.

But I do not understand at all why this is an issue. No one is questioning that he was active in the civil rights movement at this time. Why are people arguing about whether this is a picture of him speaking or not? Does it not count if there isn't photographic evidence?

Had to add two things I just thought of.

1. The possibility of course exists that it could be someone other than Bernie or the other person.

2. His work in the 60s isn't the center of his campaign. Why is it talked about so much at DU?

[Punkingal]

78. Well thank you!

[Luminous Animal]

83. You are welcome!

[demwing]

79. Bernie (the speaker) has sideburns, Rappaport has none /nt

[Skid Rogue]

81. I believe it's Bernie...

Rachel did something a couple of months ago on this particular tempest in a teapot, and if I remember correctly she traced the photo back.

edit to add - She actually showed that same photo of Pappaport.

[libtodeath]

88. The bow of the glasses in the first picture is straight

it holds by wrapping around the head.
The pictures of Bernie I have found always show him wearing glasses with bows that curl around the ear lobe.

[Blue_In_AK]

91. To me it looks like different jaw line, different glasses and different ears.