DU PoC, what is your prescription for improving race relations?

[whatchamacallit]

All lot is being asked about what candidates (well one candidate anyway) will do to improve race relations. Not the economics of race, or dealing with institutional or structural racism where it exists, but relations. What could/should a president who get's it do?

[Duckhunter935]

1. Probably crickets will be your response

It is always easy to complain, but not so easy to actually answer that question.

[whatchamacallit]

3. I assume there must be some thoughts

otherwise what is the metric for review and criticism? Seems to me, Bernie can only be doing it wrong if there is a right way.

[JRLeft]

42. Terrible post.

[Matariki]

69. +1

[brush]

83. I'll take a crack at it. Fasten your seatbelts.

This country was founded on racism/white supremacy, which stole hundreds of years of labor/money from enslaved black people and denied them and their descendants a legacy of inheritance/family wealth which endures to this day (Land was also stolen from Native Americans, but that should be another thread).

We see all the time in media stories on race the charts and graphs that illustrate the huge disparity in family wealth of white v black families. That's a direct result of the centuries of stolen labor so even if there is suddenly a society-wide economic stimulus that benefits everyone, that still leaves black families centuries behind in wealth accumulation that maintains the wealth gap that continues hurting black families, black kids and black communities.

What about that? Isn't that now somehow owed, not in checks cut to individuals but maybe compensation in the form of college education, small business grants, job training, community facilities, and COMMUNITY RELATIONS TRAINING FOR RACIST COPS . . . something to acknowledge that centuries of great harm was done that still manifests itself in dysfunction seen in some segments, not all, of the black community today (who benefits can be decided by family tree research, something similar to the Dawes Rolls used to determine Native American heritage in granting land plots many decades ago, or the way Japanese Americans were compensated for WWll internment).

Bernie Sanders is all about economic equality, which is fine, but IMO we can't just say "no harm done for stealing your ancestors' hundreds of years of labor, lets just start now with equal opportunity" and all will be well.

Not so. I think reparations should at least be on the table. Sanders, in communication with Ta-Nehisi Coates, has rejected that. How could a progressive, a socialist, ok, a Democratic Socialist, not be at least willing to discuss curing such a historic injustice?

That just doesn't compute IMO. Just think of the principle of compounding. If it were declared that the bill was due now for centuries of stolen dawn-to-dusk labor of hundreds of thousands of enslaved people, even this country couldn't pay such a great amount. So the US would be getting off easy with just providing free college education, small business grants, job training, and modern community facilities, etc.

Fair is fair. Listen up, America, karmically nature has a way of righting wrongs, even if it takes centuries and doesn't seem at all directly related to the injustice.

I hope it's different this time than usual. What I mean by that is whenever the subject of reparations is raised, it's followed by dead silence.

There. The OP asked for it.

[chalky]

101. Dude. This seriously needs to be an OP.

A very thoughtful post with some meat to chew on.

[brush]

104. Thank you for responding.

I was thinking about posting it in the AA forum when there were no responses.

[99th_Monkey]

2. I second that request... am genuinely curious about that. n/t

[gollygee]

4. I am not a POC but I have a question

Bravenak was complaining about him answering a question about race relations with an answer about economics. You have asked for an answer not about economics or institutional or structural racism. Why did you add that second part?

[Duckhunter935]

5. Why did Brave leave out most of his quote

and go off on the street corner tangent?

[gollygee]

7. Well I am unsure if I can answer for her, except that she answered that like 30 times

The question was specifically about race relations. He answered a question about race relations that way so it was obviously about race relations and people of color, even if he also talked about people of other races.

[Duckhunter935]

9. Race is not only black people

she excluded other races to try and smear him, and was called on it.

[whatchamacallit]

8. Because a lot is being made of Bernie conflating issues and not properly answering the question

I would like to hear what an acceptable answer should be to the question of improving relations.

[gollygee]

10. There are things that could be done in regard to structural racism that could help race relations

That are either not at all, or completely, economic.

[whatchamacallit]

11. No one argues with that

Any suggestions?

[gollygee]

15. As I said to the other person

There are ideas with links to more specifics under #7 of this: http://sociology.about.com/od/Current-Events-in-Sociological-Context/fl/9-Things-You-Can-Do-to-Help-End-Racism.htm

[whatchamacallit]

18. Yeah read that...

A lot of good advice about what citizens can do personally. The part that talks about actual policy sounds like BERNIE SANDERS!

[Wilms]

12. What are some you'd recommend? n/t

[gollygee]

14. I've posted this article before

But #7 on this list has ideas with links to more specifics:

http://sociology.about.com/od/Current-Events-in-Sociological-Context/fl/9-Things-You-Can-Do-to-Help-End-Racism.htm

[amborin]

19. Bernie voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions

[amborin]

21. that was part of #7 on the list; he protested racist police actions toward blacks, also part of #7

it's interesting that the beginning of the article at the link states this:

Systemic racism is characterized by unjust enrichment of white people, unjust impoverishment of people of color, and an overall unjust distribution of resources across racial lines (money, safe spaces, education, political power, and food, for example). It is racist ideologies and attitudes, even subconscious and implicit ones that are seemingly well-meaning. It is a system that grants privileges and benefits to whites at the expense of others; the alienating racist relations perpetuated by white people with racist world views in positions of power (police and news media, for example); and people of color subordinated, oppressed, and marginalized by these forces.

It is the unjust costs of racism born by people of color, like denial of education and employment, incarceration, mental and physical illness, and death. It is racist ideology that rationalizes and justifies racist oppression, like the media narratives that criminalize victims of police and vigilante violence, like Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, and Freddie Gray, as well as many others.

and it sounds as if Bernie himself could have written it!

[amborin]

25. and Bernie has condemned racist legislation, criminal justice system practices, etc....

and yet, it was the Clintons who ushered in the era of mass incarceration, racist sentencing guidelines, and racist drug laws.

[gollygee]

26. I haven't seen him write or say anything like that

And I've been looking for it. He talks about the economic part, but not the rest of it. I don't think the issue is that he talks about economics and racism (and I hope Bravenak or someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but that he almost entirely talks about that. There's more to racism than differences in poverty rates and employment, and there's a cause and effect issue going on. Racism is the case rather than the effect of a lot of this, so solving economics without solving racism would mean that the economic solutions wouldn't reach people of color.

[amborin]

30. here is his No vote to oppose ending preferential admissions based on race:

Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions.
HR 6, the Higher Education Amendments Act of 1997, would prohibit any post-secondary institution that participates in any program under the Higher Education Act from discriminating or granting any preferential treatment in admission based on race, sex, ethnicity, color or national origin.

Early in his career, he was arrested in Chicago for protesting racial segregation in nearby housing.

He has totally condemned racist sentencing and drug laws, etc.

you're right that a lot of the time racism is the cause of economic inequality, but it's also true that economic inequality harms everyone all by itself, in addition

i disagree about the time order, how curing economic inequality does not help get rid of racism, that you first have to get rid of racism to get rid of economic inequality

for example....Bernie wants free tuition for all at public colleges...well, black students have a higher college drop out rate because it is too expensive.....and those that do graduate, leave with huge loan debt that keeps them from achieving at the same rate as students who do not have that loan debt

so Bernie's college program would certainly help black students move up the ladder.

But there is a lot to racism that is very hard to eradicate. Take residential segregation, for example. There is a huge literature on this topic. How do you cure this problem? Well one thing is to get rid of redlining. Red-lining used to be used a lot but it is used less as it has become illegal.

Anyway, please tell me what more you would like to see Bernie do. And do you think Hillary would do things better? If so, how?

[gollygee]

36. I don't personally think Hillary would do better

I am voting for Bernie.

I just think this is his weakest point. I am glad he voted no on ending affirmative action. I think he and Hillary will both do well at voting the way I'd want them to on issues like that. I think they'd both put good people on the SCOTUS.

What I'd personally like either of them to talk about is the criminal justice system and racism, and I'd like to hear about it over and over again. There is a lot of horrible stuff happening there. Also public schools, charter schools. Some of that is economic but it isn't entirely. Segregation is not just economic. People of color live in poorer neighborhoods than they can afford because of racism of various sorts. Also, hiring issues. People of color have a very hard time getting hired (or promoted) at any level, and this is very true of middle class and wealthy people of color. They are severely held back from their potential due to racism. It's wonderful to help people in poverty find employment, but we also have to enforce current EEOC laws and investigate workplace racism more for people at all income levels.

The college stuff is great but that isn't specifically about racism. It will help my kids as much as it'll help people of color. And again you're talking about dropout rates caused by economics. He's great on economics -that's his biggest strength, and it's a massive strength. The way to improve his message is to talk about the issues of racism not related to economics. He's got economics covered.

[gollygee]

23. I'm not sure why you replied to me with this. N/t

[Wilms]

20. Great article.

I really don't see anything there antithetical to Sanders campaign. What am I missing?

[gollygee]

22. I didn't say there was

I'm voting for Bernie. I asked a specific question.

[brush]

95. Good link. Thanks for posting. Must reading, people.

[AgingAmerican]

13. He hasn't conflated the issues

Hillary supporters made that up.

[Maedhros]

29. Yep. This cannot be overstated.

Bernies "problem" with race is entirely a construct of the Clinton campaign.

[randys1]

54. Whoa, so Black people cant discern the issues and are simply pawns of Hillary? Including you?

I thought you were a POC, does this apply to you too?

[AgingAmerican]

98. No, it's made up

It doesn't come from Sanders. There is no conflating, except in the minds of Hillary partisans.

[840high]

24. I'll kick - maybe we will.

[boston bean]

27. I got one.

It would be nice if all politicians in positions of power or seeking more would recognize that those advocating for racial justice aren't being divisive and are not being used by the oligarchy to keep us all divided and down. That advocacy does not harm the fight for economic justice. And people really need to stop thinking in those terms. It is offensive.

That would really help.

[whatchamacallit]

28. Don't remember Bernie personally saying that

[bettyellen]

51. It is widely know he avoided "wedge issues" for years, because he could. Lots of his fans love that

strategy too- and wish he had stuck to it. I have seen that said hundreds of times here.

[AgingAmerican]

99. There is a difference between 'Wedge issues'

and 'Wedgie issues'.

[bettyellen]

106. My right to control my body being a "wedge issue" is bad enough without you making light of it.

[Empowerer]

68. This

[DemocraticWing]

97. Are you talking about the common refrain that elites use racism to turn whites against minorities?

Because that's what I hear when politicians (and few do this, honestly) speak in the terms you're suggesting. I know there's a history, traced back to Bacon's rebellion, of white supremacy being a system created and maintained for the purposes of keeping poor whites and blacks from uniting against power structures. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting how this is being distilled in political messaging.

[JRLeft]

31. You can start by leveling the playing field.

White felons are more likely to be hired than non felon blacks.

[whatchamacallit]

32. A real issue

one that legislation maybe could be crafted around. But how does that relate to improving relations?

[JRLeft]

35. It's a step in the right direction. White people have to hear black people

not just listen and play lip service. Listen and not be offended or threatened by POC rhetoric.

[whatchamacallit]

37. I know what the polls seem to indicate

and some people have used that data to proclaim PoC are of one mind. The numbers are changing and I'm not sure it's accurate or respectful to make such a claim. That said, yes, white people can do a better job of listening to all the prospectives of PoC.

[Arazi]

33. Here's bravenak's answer - signing statements

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511211219#post14

And that's good enough along with some unspecified "legislation " and community outreach

Friday

bravenak

14. Legislation and signing statements and community outreach


Click here to purchase valentine hearts!

Reply

Alert

[whatchamacallit]

34. Signing statements?

[Squinch]

38. One way would be for them to figure out which of their preconceptions are racial

stereotypes and then not using those stereotypes in speeches.

[whatchamacallit]

40. I'm looking for what Sanders could/should have said when asked

[Squinch]

47. He should not have used a stereotype. I am an Irish person. If Bernie had said, "I want to

help those Irish people! I am going to institute free programs to combat alcoholism!" I would find that obnoxious. It would be him blithely tossing out a stereotype about my ethnicity and it would show me that Bernie has little understanding and little regard for Irish people.

This would be despite the fact that alcoholism is relatively high among Irish people.

He did the same to African Americans with the comment he made.

What he should have done, and should avoid doing going forward, is to learn which of his preconceptions are stereotypes and avoid using them in speeches. It's not that difficult a concept.

[Squinch]

39. And PS, you have a race too. Why not say what your prescription is? Why is it up to POC to

solve race relations?

[whatchamacallit]

46. I know how I personally try to conduct myself in life

I'm asking in reference to Bernie's "inadequacies"

[Squinch]

48. Again, why is it up to POC to come up with the solutions to race relations?

[whatchamacallit]

55. The people who say he sucks

could maybe be a little less vague about how. To turn your question back on you, why is it solely up to Bernie Sanders? Lots of bagging his answers and not a lot of specifics about what he should say.

[Duckhunter935]

61. because POC say all the time

They are in a unique position nobody else can be in. Do whatever a non POC says is not good enough.

[Squinch]

62. Poor you. Racism is so hard for you.

[Duckhunter935]

67. I am not allowed by some to have an opinion

As I am not a POC.

[Squinch]

71. I don't know how you bear up under the strain. Your bravery is a lesson for us all.

[Duckhunter935]

74. thank you, it is tough

[firebrand80]

41. I don't much care about "race relations"

I do, however, care a great deal about one of my sons making a police officer "fear for his personal safety."

[JRLeft]

45. I don't have children myself, but I have nieces and nephews.

[Truprogressive85]

43. To be honest

No

Racism is learned behavior

Unless there is law banning racism which we know won't happen than No

Here is a few thing will that help,but not solve suffering in communities of color

Ending mass incarceration
Raising the minimum wage
Reinvestment in communities of Color
End banks predatory practices
Holding police accountable
Having the Federal Govt intervene when state and local govt don't want investigate police shootings
Increase funds to SBA so POC can start businesses
Ending the militarization of police departments
Free tution
Give felons the right to vote after serving their time
Stop Drug wars and legalize marijuana


Also I suggest White HRC suppoters need to read about Intersectionalites

[Bobbie Jo]

44. Why on earth are you asking them

I've never seen a bigger bunch of completely DISMISSIVE people in my life.

Watch them line up one by one.

Please.

And I'm NOT talking about POC DU'ers, in case there was any confusion.

[whatchamacallit]

49. I'm asking those few

for whom any and all answers proffered by Bernie Sanders are inadequate. But you knew that...

[Squinch]

52. Which means that you will find any and all answers you get to your question inadequate.

Jesus. And I actually tried to answer the question. How dumb am I?

[gollygee]

63. He also changed his question

Posts in other threads: Economic fixes alone will not cure racism or race relations.

This OP: How will you fix race relations without economic cures or any structural changes?

That's a big change.

[Squinch]

66. I didn't really pay attention to who it was. I would never have responded if I had made the

connection to other shit I have read from him.

[whatchamacallit]

80. We're at lame provocation stage now?

Maybe you'd like to elaborate on me and my rep...

[Duckhunter935]

65. what was your answer?

The insult?

[JRLeft]

79. That's the problem he/she is wrapping the question around Bernie proving

proving black HRC supporters to be right.

[Bobbie Jo]

76. No, I DIDN'T know that

All I know is the snarky, mocking nonsense I've seen directed at these people.

Just watch them line up here too.

Makes me sick.

[Squinch]

50. Isn't it amazing?

[bettyellen]

53. Yeah, this is not as gleeful in tone as the last "can't solve racism" OP... but none if this is help

-ful. It displays a sort of smug entitlement that is really off putting.

[whatchamacallit]

59. Bullshit

[bettyellen]

75. You narrowed the question to make racism "unsolvable" because it's actually bigotry. Nice trick.

Deliberate set up.

[Duckhunter935]

64. so who are you talking about?

Do tell....

[RobertEarl]

56. Elect Obama

And get rid of Scalia.

Yep, imm, that's some progress.

Make everyone watch the "Freedom Riders" documentary on PBS.org

[Prism]

57. DU is not the place for this discussion

Racial issues are being trolled hard out of partisan interest. You're better off asking friends and family of color what they think. God knows, I take their word on it far over anything I read here.

[Arazi]

73. +10000 eom

[artislife]

91. I have to agree.

There are a lot of forces at work on this site and some of them are not about reaching a turning point at all.


I feel like a Libyan with planes flying overhead on some days.

[Prism]

100. Those are love bombs!

Feel the shrapnel of affection.

I'm excited for Easter. I know you and I have talked before. I'm going to hang with my brother's family. My sister-in-law's entire family is coming in from Mexico, including her brother and his husband who I've not yet met. So I'll get to listen to their take on everything here. I'm tired of DU telling me what such and such think. It's better to just go to the source, you know?

But then, I see people here telling me what LGBT think all the time, and it's like, "Uh, no. We don't think that. At all."

Whutkinyado.

[artislife]

102. Shrapnel of affection

!!




I got a big one stuck in my jugular, oh my.

Sounds like you will be having an awesome Easter, I can just imagine the lauging, the love and THE FOOD! When we were growing up, we would have homemade (not ours, though) tamales before the American traditional meal of the holiday. yummmm.

Should be some good conversations as well, I am wondering what area(s) of the country the family is from. The state of Guanajuato was doing pretty good with manufactoring, tourism and other employment opportunities. Saw car plants and P&G plants along with large mega stores. That is where my grandmother was born. I am sure coming from different areas will bring some interesting view points.

[Prism]

103. Rio Verde, San Luis Potosi

Which is tons of fun to fly out to, when you can manage it.

I want to say her father worked in government in a diplomatic role and her mother was a teacher. They're fairly decently off. They have a ranch and are retired now. The younger brother I'm about to meet is a professional violinist. She was a dentist before she emigrated and married my brother (and now that the munchkins are in school, she's going through that whole pointless American recertification so she can practice again).

Food! She's an amazing cook and often leaves mole simmering on the stove for hours, makes tamales, and some kind of marinated beef on tortillas with guacamole. Always amazing.

But, in honor of my Catholic parents, I imagine there will be ham, lol.

I talked a little politics with them over Christmas, and at the time, their attitude was, "Just not Trump!"

[randys1]

58. Reparations first.

[LWolf]

77. Help me.

I am understanding and supportive of a few things that I find some otherwise reasonably intelligent people react to.

One is affirmative action. I'm not talking about garden variety racists or under educated people, but recently I had 2 intelligent, normally reasonable people blow up about affirmative action when I mentioned racial justice. I'm wondering how, beyond my own understanding, to talk to them to get past their hot button.

The other is reparations. I'm not against reparations; not at all. I have been, am, more focused on fixing what's wrong right now in the way of social, racial, and economic justice. What do reparations mean, look like, work like, to you?

I'm feeling the need to listen a bit more, and to think on these things before I enter the fray in my real world again.

[Duckhunter935]

87. so who would get them?

President Obama, Clarence Thomas?

[Empowerer]

60. An important step would be for well-meaning white people to not assume that every

discussion of race is "race baiting," that observations about insensitive language and behavior are not accusations of racism, and that when we're offended by something, we're not necessarily being overly sensitive or demanding "political correctness."

These conversations are sometimes painful, but people of color should not have to constantly modulate our attempts to discuss the issues to ensure that white people's feelings aren't hurt or else have the conversations shut down because "we pulled the race card."

Additionally, it is important for white people to understand that white perspective and norms are not the mean with everything else that diverges from that being questionable. For example, we are often asked "Why do black people feel this way?" which really means, "Why don't black people feel the way that white people do? (i.e., what's wrong with black people?)" Rarely do we analyze perspectives with the recognition that white folks feel one way, POC feel a different way and the truth is probably somewhere in between - or, God forbid, maybe the black folks are right and it's white folks who are off-base. The assumption is that POC are the "black people" or "latino people" or " Muslim people," etc., while white people are "the people."

A few suggestions that certainly won't solve all of these problems, but will go a long way toward getting to that point

[Duckhunter935]

70. it really goes for all sides

[Empowerer]

81. No, it doesn't

There is an entirely different balance of power in these conversations that allows whites to fall back on and hide behind generations-long assumptions, dominate the discussion and shut it down when it gets uncomfortable for them. POC don't have that kind of power and are, thus, at a distinct disadvantage within this dynamic. Black people have spent our lives figuring out how to navigate these conversations while white people have never had to. Unless and until whites learn how to and then actually do change the way they hear, interact with and respond to POC in these discussions, we will never get anywhere.

No, in this instance, this does not go for all sides.

[Duckhunter935]

86. and that is why it will not likely be settled

When you arbitrarily dismiss one viewpoint. Very sad.

[Empowerer]

89. Not dismissing a viewpoint. Dismissing your attempt to tell me what MY perspective should be

You were telling me that MY perspective goes both ways. Since it is MY perspective, it is not up to you to tell me how it works. Ironically, your reaction embodies exactly the point I am making.

[Duckhunter935]

90. I was not and you know that

You just did dismiss arbitrarily what I said about all sides. You are the one that took it personally and then dismissed anything that I posted. We are done as you do not even want to have a civil discussion. Have a great night and thanks for proving my point on how it likely will not change.

[Armstead]

92. It becomes a circular argument

You are saying that the only way to discuss is to accept that white people are so entitled that our opinions have no merit...We are supposed to assume the only legitimste arbitors of racial issues are AAs

Naw I think I'll pass

[Matariki]

72. +1

great post Empowerer

[bravenak]

78. Yep

[bettyellen]

82. + 5

[Depaysement]

84. Here's a little something

Listen instead of talking. Really listen.

Then put yourself in their shoes. Don't worry they're untied. You can slip them off.

And you know who I'm talking to here.

You'd be surprised how a little step can become a long stride.

[whatchamacallit]

85. Yes, understood, but

the question, appreciated or not, is what should Bernie have said?

[Depaysement]

88. Exactly what I just wrote nt

[ram2008]

93. Both sides need to do a lot to improve relations (big explanation inside)

I'm a "PoC" I suppose, since that's the new term for minorities (I'm a latino).

White America/society should:

1) Accept that the criminal justice system is biased and needs reform. Lethal force laws need to be revised, drug laws (unfair sentencing) need to repealed and moneys undue influence should be removed from the system (affluenza anyone?), unfair targeting of minorities needs to be reevaluated. The justice system is destroying families and futures.

2) Following on point 1, bad cops need to be weeded out of the system and it held accountable much easier. They get away with far too much and the cop worship needs to stop. Big big reforms are needed here.

3) Investments in education for minority communities needs to be a priority, bringing cash flow to minority businesses and neighborhoods will lift them out of poverty and bring them to par with everyone else. A vital part of this is ensuring social benefits are not cut but rather increased. This would probably require some federal funds, perhaps as part of a small stimulus.

4) Lose the privileged mentality that some have and try to see perspective from someone who is inherently looked down upon by society . I still hear lots of off color jokes every now and then even among friends that are sort of offensive and degrading. Yes, Affirmative Action is still needed because of the structural imbalances we have in the United States. No, people are generally not exaggerating the way race has affected their life.


That being said, PoC also have to work on a few things, we should:

1) Improve role models/culture. As Obama said in his 2004 convention address we must "reject the slander that says a black child with a book is trying to act white.” Unfortunately this type of behavior is still all too common.. I saw it first hand growing up as a "smart kid," there was a lot of pushback mostly from fellow minority students about how I was a "white boy" etc. just because of how I was in the classroom. This needs to be fixed and it starts at home and through other cultural outlets, TV, ,music etc.

2) Less blame, more responsibility. Time to turn the page on people like Sharpton and embrace leaders like Obama. We can't move forward if we keep looking back. It IS possible for minorities to be at fault for many of our actions and reflexively defending anyone because of their skin color does not help. Not everything bad that happens to you is because of race, but most likely because of actions. There are lots of programs, scholarships and other methods of assistance that really do help put POC on the path to success and equal opportunity. The deck is still slightly stacked, but every day it gets less so.

3) Be respectful of people who are trying to help. Not everyone who wants to have a conversation on race is "white-splaining" or will "never know where you're coming from." Listen and discuss, don't shut your ears and dismiss. It only makes the other side irritated.

4) Be less sensitive, not everyone out there is targeting you with a micro aggression deliberately or trying to hold you down. The whole safe space non-sense and around college campuses is really just making things worse, fostering resentment and causing backlash within the white community.

[whatchamacallit]

94. Thanks

I doubt Bernie could have crammed those good thoughts into the expected soundbite-length answer, but point taken.

[ram2008]

96. Oh certainly not, I think he's doing just fine

No need for him to change anything.

[Hekate]

105. Not this again