Millions get no paid holidays. How would a natl Electn Day Holiday help THEM vote?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

Holidays mean nothing to minimum wage workers and many others not protected by civil service or by unions.

Even in supposedly liberal NJ, Governor Crispy Kreme vetoed legislation that would have restored early voting on the Sunday before Election Day.
See http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/chris-christie-vetoes-early-voting-new-jer

That's the day when millions of people of color drive carloads of voters to the polls directly from church. But not in NJ. Can't have that. IMO barring early voting on that day may be even more effective in suppressing minority turnout relative to white turnout than Voter ID, but flies under the NAACP radar much better. 

A ucsd.edu prof named Zoltan Hajnal recently estimated Voter ID suppresses minority turnout by 4.8 to 5.7 percentage points. See http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/10/voter-id-paper/ and my GD thread on that study at http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027612863 .

A national paid holiday costs employers revenue and taxpayers corporate tax payments on that revenue for, IMO, little gain in turnout. As usual, there is a much smarter and much cheaper and much more effective alternative that the supporters of Senator BS willfully ignore. We have to be much smarter than that of we want to get anything through Congress, IMO.

[Duckhunter935]

1. you will never be able to

Get every person. It will help many tens of millions. Is the status quo better in your opinion?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

11. "Help 10s of millions" NO,

argues Wildeyed below in post number 8, backing up his argument with a great link. "Souls to the Polls" apparently is more effective than NEDH, as well as much cheaper.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. Is this 'argument' that the country closes on a holiday? Funny, the stores were open for me.

.


I had a paid day off, yet I went out shopping.


People who work might get a floating comp day, extra pay, or the day off, replacing the useless 'President's Day.'


To best honor Presidents, one would think that supporting the General Election process would be the best way to do it!


.

[EdwardBernays]

2. You've made a great argument

For abolishing Christmas.

[DUbeornot2be]

3. ...

+1000!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

6. EPIC FAIL. In everybody's

opinion benefits of Christmas outweigh it's costs. That's true for all other holidays, except in the minds of some Tea Partiers, MLK Day.

I'm simply pointing out that a National Election Day should undergo similar benefit-cost analysis compared to cheaper alternatives that boost the turnout of POC and other Democratic constituencies even more IMO.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Not everything is a fucking commodity.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

16. Please explain--you're

making no sense to me.

You would prefer a strategy to counteract voter suppression that counteracts LESS AND costs more?

[Live and Learn]

36. +10,000 nt

[Bluenorthwest]

4. Don't worry about it Bernie's proposal for an Election Holiday happened months ago and it was

done not with any belief it would pass but done to mark the anniversary of the Voting Rights Act and make remarks about voters suppression.

In my State we vote by mail, no polling places, no IDs, no stress, high turn out. Every home a polling place, every sofa a voting booth.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

5. Do the ballots have to ARRIVE by

mail? In that case once again the very poor, many of whom get evicted every few months because they can't afford rent, are screwed over once again.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

21. No, in my state, you can drop off your ballots at key dropoff points.

Or mail it in. Your choice.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

25. But how do you get the ballots

in the first place? That's my question, not what you can do with it once you get it..

My extreme skepticism about any "reforms" is inspired by my reading of an unforgettable history of "The Right to Vote" by Alexander Keyssar.

That and Jimmy Carter 's having apparently giving away the store to evil genius Jim Baker on a commission to recommend "voting reform" after the Y2K disaster that gave us Dubya and 9/11. That's how voter ID became legal in the first place.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

28. They mail you the ballots at your legal address

Homeless needs to go either early vote or request a ballot at the election center and vote there.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

33. That's what I thought

The economics of elections is complicated, but history shows that the marginalized, such as the homeless and highly mobile, almost always get shafted.

On this particular issue of people getting evicted since they last registered, Keyssar has a near few pages. Someone in the 1896 Mississippi legislature said on the floor, "The Negro is a nomadic tribe". Then that body passed a vote-suppression bill that exploited that strategy for many decades.

[Travis_0004]

29. Arrangements could be made

Im sure the board of elections could give one the option to have ballots arrive for general delivery at the post office for those without an address.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

34. Maybe for a handful, but not for tens

of thousands who will slip through often intentionally-decided cracks.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

7. So it was just more bloviating by Senator BS?

[Live and Learn]

38. It is Senator Sanders, not Senator BS. Shame on you. nt

[wildeyed]

8. Souls to the polls.

Yep, got that here in NC. GOP hates it too.

Same day voter registration helps. That is HUUUUUUGE for young and poor voters and anyone who rents.

Bunch of research here for anyone who wants to get nerdy with it.

But yeah, paid Election Day holiday is not a real solution.

I would like to see way more from both candidates on Voting Rights, and some indication that they are willing to spend political capital defending it.

Looks like the Supreme Court ducks might line up for us. We could push back hard against a bunch of the racist and regressive nonsense they have tried to push down ALL our throats and cement a solid progressive majority. The time is now.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

9. Thanks for that great link,

and for adding substance to this thread before the mindless slogans take over completely

[tammywammy]

10. A national holiday is only guaranteed to those working for the federal government

Just like other federal holidays there will always be people that have to work. It's better to push for vote by mail or extending early voting days. In Texas early voting lasts two weeks before Election Day and has hours until 7pm and on the weekend. I can vote tomorrow for the Super Tuesday primary. Also during early voting, you can vote at any of the locations in your county. If I have time at lunch, I can vote near work or I can vote near my house (and plenty of places in between).

[Duckhunter935]

13. yep, early voting and vote by mail is best

[ProgressiveEconomist]

14. Don't forget paid holidays guaranteed by

state, local, and private sector union contracts, the few we have left.

[TheProgressive]

15. No We Can't!...No We Can't!...No We Can't...

Thanks Clinton...

[ProgressiveEconomist]

17. No we can't do the stupid

stuff we want, when there are better AND cheaper alternatives?

[wildeyed]

19. Who said anything about Clinton?

No we can't propose silly stuff that doesn't actually address the problem just because it can be expressed in 140 characters or less without getting called out by people who actually pay attention

[Avalux]

18. So....we shouldn't even try? Lame. n/t

[wildeyed]

20. Not that.

We should try things that work.

[Avalux]

22. We should try things to see if they work.

Why keep yourself in a box and keep doing the same thing over and over because it works? That's not progress.

[wildeyed]

23. We HAVE tried things.

We do know what works. We just have to do them now. It is the doing that is the hard part, not the knowing.

The first step would be getting ride of the fucking poll tax laws, now called voter ID, that have spread like kudzu all over the southern states. Let's work on beating that and quit bloviating about boxes and progress, shall we?

Analogy: Our house is burning down and you are suggesting that we plant daisies to make the front walk look more inviting.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

24. Great metaphor! USSC decision

Shelby County vs. Holder rolled back preclearance requirements of the VRA almost three years ago. That was a green light for Voter ID and banning "Souls to the Polls" days throughout the South, and apparently inspired imitation even in non-preclearance states such as NJ. Yes, our house is on fire.

John Lewis, who is seeing what he came inches from death for rolled back, is prioritizing "Fix the VRA". See
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/john-lewis-voting-rights-act_n_7689556.html .

But is Senator BS listening to the experts and living icons?

IMO no, he's too busy listening to the sound of his own robotic bloviating glitches, like a broken record that millenials hear as Taylor Swift.

[dana_b]

26. "like a broken record that millenials hear as Taylor Swift"

when you insult people in such a manner - why should they pay ANY attention to you?
Seriously - it does not help your case at all
.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

35. "My case" is to be provocative

enough to get people's attention and induce the cognitive dissonance that often leads to lasting learning.

[wildeyed]

54. It's all they have left.

Money is not buying elections the way it used to. Their coalition is crumbling to dust. And they have maxxed their potential voter pool while the Dems still have huge untapped resources.

The only way they cling to power is with voter disenfranchisement.

And yeah, I get frustrated when there has been this Battle Royale going on over this for years now, and people who paid zero attention now want to waltz in and make pronouncements about how we need to try new stuff! fun stuff!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

61. So True. The Rs are fighting

demography, the inevitable marginalization of Caucasians in the world.

But satanically evil genius Jim Baker, who was Reagan's Treasury Sec IIRC, dreamed Voter ID up and PLAYED Jimmy Carter masterfully on a commission set up to recommend voting reform after the Y2K disaster. Jimmy Carter was very proud of his Motor Voter initiative, which in the 1970s allowed people to register to vate at DNV offices. So maybe JC liked the idea of people showing their drivers licenses when they entered the polls, thinking that they must have taken advantage of Motor Voter if they were registered.

A George Washington University Law professor on the commission wrote a scathing dissenting report pointing out the obvious: People who can't afford cars are less likely to have drivers licenses. But JC gave away the store to JB anyway.
Now Zoltan Hajnal's Voter ID research at ucsd.edu finally has shown that that law professor was correct.

Have you ever read Ruy Teixera's "The Emerging Democratic Majority"? Baker's genius has delayed that milestone by at least 20 years, IMO.

[wildeyed]

62. No, I haven't read that book.

I get the demographics part to an extent. I started to get the that part sorted out in 2004. I got very tired of trying to persuade white swing voter friends to vote for Kerry. It was obviously a waste of time. But I figured out that there were an almost endless number of marginalized voters in my community who had similar political goals to mine who were not voting consistently. So I got involved with c3 voter education and registration groups. That ended up being what is now known as the NC Moral Monday coalition. We upped voter turnout and got a bunch of good legislation passed, until we lost the state house majority in 2010. As a result of that experience, I have a good feel for what will actually work on the ground. Not that anyone here, for the most part and present company excluded of course, gives a shit......

The big picture history I understand less. It seems like Reps have been better at numbers and messaging until recently. Obama kicked their asses so hard on the demographics and campaign strategy part. That was SWEET! So I hope our team is buying a clue now.

I have never been a fan of Jimmy Carter. I didn't know about the Motor Voter, but he was a horrible politician so it doesn't surprise me. Also way more conservative than most here realize. My mom hated the guy because, in her opinion, he marked the death of the true liberal in American politics. People want to compare Sanders to FDR, but I always think of JC.

I will check that book out. Sounds interesting.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

65. Carter-Baker Commission

report summary with link to GWU Law Prof Spencer Overton's dissent (CS Monitor 2005):
http://m.csmonitor.com/2005/0922/p09s01-coop.html

wyldwolf, THANK YOU so much for helping to make this thread bookmark-worthy.

I've put all the good Voter ID links I can remember, for future reference, in one place: right here. And the links and practical turnout recollections you posted here are priceless!

[wildeyed]

66. Yes, this is a good topic.

I have been evangelizing on this one for a loooong time. It is funny how easy a revolution is to engineer from the inside if you are willing to focus on the "boring" stuff like demographics and tweaks to voting laws.

I ALMOST trashed this tread before reading it because I have had so many bad expereinces with new posters with various incarnations of "progressive" in the screen name. But then I actually remembered you from back in the day. I think we both posted on the topic a bit then. So I un-trashed it, and yes, it has been really interesting.

BTW, I am wildeyed, not wyldwolf. There is a wyldwolf here too, I think, but they are not me

[ProgressiveEconomist]

67. Oops! Sorry I've been getting your name

wrong. Of I were'nt posting on a smartphone, very likely I would have caught my mistake, not being restricted to at most half of a tiny screen.

[wildeyed]

68. Impressive that you can post this much on

a phone. I do it occasionally, but it is hard.

[Kip Humphrey]

27. proof: Hillary Clinton is a 3rd-Way conservative Democrat.

FYI, for all you used-to-be-republicon Hillarians: a national Election Day holiday has been an idea championed by progressives for like FOREVER!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

37. But people like those

at wildeyed's NC link (see post number 8) have found something that WORKS, and costs very little, "Souls,to the Polls" day for early voting the Sunday before Election Day.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. Works for Christians.

Discriminates against atheists. Cause we just don't have enough theocratic values in politics

[wildeyed]

55. How does that discriminate against atheists?

Atheists can still vote on Sunday. It is still a day off for many, regardless of religion. The reason it is targeted is because BLACK churches have organized their congregations successfully and increased minority voter turnout.

[wildeyed]

57. And yet they never actually pass the law.

Why? If it is so great, why is it not an official holiday if 'progressives' have championed it for like forever?

[qwlauren35]

31. At first I thought...

what a great idea. But then I remembered, they've started making people work on Thanksgiving. Federal Holiday. BIG holiday. Most people have the day off... but not everyone.

So, I find myself agreeing with the "conservatives". We have to fight for 7 days (minimum) of early voting. Make THAT mandatory in every state. It would do a lot more good than a national holiday for election day.

As for voter IDs... I have a white friend who, two years ago, said that voter ID was reasonable, and she couldn't understand why anyone was against it. Now, she is the one posting a story about some little old white lady who can't vote because she can't show the paper trail of her name change when she got married. So, when it doesn't just impact minorities, it becomes an issue...

Now, don't think that I hate her because she's white. She IS my friend. But we definitely see things differently.

[wildeyed]

58. I have been arguing about voter ID for as long

as I have been on this site. It is nothing more than a poll tax used to disenfranchise minority and college voters in tight races. They only get a few points on the deal, but in a tight race, that can be decisive.

The GOP have sold it to their voters as a way to avoid voter fraud. The real problem, I have found, is how little awareness white liberals have about the issue. I was gobsmacked when I started posting about the topic waaaaay back when GA passed the first one, and people here were like "Who cares. Doesn't everyone have ID?" No, everyone does has an ID, and winning a majority in congress lives and dies on the votes of citizens who may not have a DL or other photo ID that matches their current rental address.

I am older now, but back in college and my 20's I moved ALL THE TIME. My license may not have been up to date, but I had utility bills, etc. that could prove residence. Voter ID is LARGELY aimed at decreasing black voter participation, but it also does a number on college students and other young adults. ALL good progressive and liberal voters should speak out against this type of law vociferously because it hurts us all.

In my state, NC, 51% of our citizens voted for Democrats in the state rep races, yet the GOP came away with a fucking VETO PROOF majority! How is that democratic? They redrew districts and caged black voters in two districts to engineer this electoral feat. I, personally, was not caged, but my vote was stolen too, because the election results did not reflect the will of the people. Black voters are targeted because of their overwhelming support for Democrats, de facto segregation and because systematic racism make it harder for them to speak out and work the system. But make no mistake, these attacks hurt ALL progressives, white and black. I do not understand why white liberals are not throwing themselves onto the barricades and screaming bloody murder to resist this type of ugly, immoral bullshit.

[SheilaT]

32. As someone who has always worked in jobs

than involved shift work, holidays, and weekends, I'm extremely underwhelmed by the idea of making election day a national holiday. I think people who have normal office jobs, especially the ones that have all of the holidays, don't quite get it that real live people are doing things like being the nurses, the cops, the firefighters, the retail sales clerks. All those things that they expect to be open and available to them weekends, holidays, and in some cases 24/7/365.

No, the better solution is early voting, vote by mail, and same day registration.

[Live and Learn]

39. I think they like the holiday pay, at least. nt

[SheilaT]

40. Assuming they even get holiday pay.

That's one of the many erosions that has occurred over the years.

Retail, for example, generally keeps people working less that 40 hours a week. So no overtime. And I'm fairly certain no holiday pay. At least I don't recall ever getting any back when I worked retail for a few months.

Some jobs do have good holiday pay, and I've also worked some of those. But I can tell you that over the years it gets very tiresome never to have an extra day off. And a lot of those jobs require standing all day.

In any case, I still think that a federal holiday for election day simply isn't a very good idea, and there are other, better ways, to try to get more people to vote.

[Live and Learn]

41. But most of the examples you gave do get it. That is another good thing unions do for people.

And maybe Bernie will add paid time and a half holiday time to his platform. Of course, he won't require YOU to take it.

[SheilaT]

47. Yes for the nurses, cops, and firefighters.

But many of them work 12 hour shifts, or in the case of firefighters, 24 hour shifts. Election day being a national holiday will not help them get to the polls.

And the retail sales clerks, the pizza delivery guys, the fast food and restaurant workers, they don't get holiday pay, and I suspect there are more of them than there are those who do get it.

Yes, we need strong unions. In the 1970's I was an airline ticket agent. My job wasn't union, but I had the benefit of other strong unions in the industry. In fact, we got over time pay any time we went over 8 hours in a day, whether or not we completed 40 hours for the week. Nice. In 1982 I worked for a few months for another airline, and there my job was union (although I didn't work long enough to become a member). I was part time. And if in any week I worked more that whatever my part time schedule was, I got overtime. That was sweet.

Of course, over time and through the use of strategic bankruptcies, airline jobs have gotten worse and worse, and I'm glad I'm long out of that field. Meanwhile, my pension is less than a third of what it should be, thanks to that. Luckily for me I never counted on it, and so the financial shock isn't the way it's been for those who worked thirty or more years and truly counted on the pension.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

49. Thank you for speaking

from experience to amplify what the NC experts say in wyldwolf's great link (post number 8).

[ProgressiveEconomist]

42. But holiday pay only for those

who already have huge incentives to vote and actually do vote is almost pure economic waste.

Read the MSNBC link in the OP. KKKrispy Kreme said he had costed out two weeks of early votimg in NJ at only $25 million for the first year, and just $2 million a year thereafter

[Live and Learn]

43. As you were told above, not everything is about money! Hard to believe, I know. nt

[ProgressiveEconomist]

44. If you persist with proposals

that have proven to be massively expensive losers, while more effective alternatives are available for a pittance, how can you get much done?

[Live and Learn]

46. Take a holiday from economics. It will do you good. nt

[ProgressiveEconomist]

50. I sense you mean me well,

L&L. But I'm striving to stay as sharp as I can for as long as I can I've come too far to slow down now when I'm feeling very comfortable using what I know

[brooklynite]

45. Actually, a number of States have laws in place requiring time off for elections...

[Live and Learn]

48. True, we get 2 hours if needed. nt

[wildeyed]

59. I'm a boss.

I tell my employees they can take an extra hour of paid break time one day during early vote, but they have to come back with an "I Voted" sticker on their shirt

[cantbeserious]

51. Predictably Spreading Establishment FUD

eom

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. As a tax credit, it would even be progressive.

Give a set amount as a tax credit to people who vote. That incentivizes the poorly paid to vote more than it does the wealthy.

[wildeyed]

56. That is actually a good idea.

In some countries, voting is mandatory and citizens are fined for missing an election. But can't imagine that will get passed. RW would paint it as "pay for play", the Dems paying blacks to vote for them, even though EVERYONE gets paid. But that is how they roll, and their base seems to be willing to cut of their noses despite their faces, so this would not be different.

More early voting and same-day voter registration are policies that historically work to increase turnout and that can get passed into law. I would focus on those.

But get rid of the Voter ID laws first. Those are pure evil, just a more palatable re-incarnation of the poll tax and Jim Crow.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

63. But a much more effective

strategy (Souls to thePolls Sunday early voting) would cost.at most a million or two per year per state. See wyldwolf's excellent post number 8 and the msnbc link in the OP.

IMO, what you're proposing MIGHT work of voters could get cash on the spot and not have to wait until all their tax documents arrive in February.

[JackRiddler]

60. Millions are already college graduates!

How will free public university help them with anything?

Billions are already dead!!!

How will a working health care system help them?

Millions are illiterate, billions can't even speak English!

How will this post mean anything to them?!

(Oh, wait, the latter are the lucky ones!)

[AZ Progressive]

64. #1: It would allow people to read up on all the candidates running for office, know where they stand, and vote informly

#2: It would make sure that the maximum turnout will happen. No registered voter will have an excuse not to vote.