Let us, for one moment, consider a primary race where neither candidate wins enough delegates.

[MohRokTah]

That, for all intents and purposes, is a virtual tie.

It is completely possible that two candidates can go through the entire primary and caucus process throughout the entire country and territories and neither candidate has enough delegates to win. One candidate may have a few more delegates than the other, but it takes 50% +1 delegate to win the nomination.

In that "virtual tie" situation, it is the Super Delegates who decide.

I thank my Party for having the foresight to insure that a primary race that close will be decided by cooler heads.

So if you want to make sure your candidate wins, make sure your candidate has the needed 50% + 1 delegate before the Super Delegate counts really matter beyond being a solid endorsement for a candidate.

One final note, in 2008 Barack Obama won enough delegates in the primaries and caucuses to have the necessary majority for the nomination without the Super Delegates determining the outcome, but had he not won that majority, the Super Delegates would rightfully determine the outcome.

[libtodeath]

1. What if they subvert the obvious will of the people?

Are they a good thing then?
I will take my chances on the rare possibility of a brokered convention then that one.

[MohRokTah]

5. The Super Delegates CANNOT "subvert the will of the people".

If a candidate can win enough delegates to win the nomination, the Super Delegates do not even come into consideration. OTherwise, it's a virtual tie and the Super Delegates determine the outcome.

So either the people make a clear statement, or it's a tie.

Basically, if you want to win, win about 57% of the delegates up for grabs in the primaries and caucuses, otherwise the best your candidate could do is tie and let the decision go to the Super Delegates.

[libtodeath]

9. In your particular situation

I meant in comparison to another where Bernie has a lead of regular delegates and popular vote but they throw it to Hillary.
That would be exactly subverting the will of the people.

[MohRokTah]

11. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the 2008 primaries by ~300,000 votes.

Barack Obama won enough delegates to win the nomination, so Super Delegate were moot.

If you want to guarantee your candidate does not end up in a tie, win about 57% of the delegates up for grabs in the primaries and caucuses just like Obama did in 2008, then you win the nomination.

Anything short of that is a tie and the Super Delegates determine the outcome in the first ballot at the convention.

[libtodeath]

15. That was its own situation.

Was Gore v B*h a tie and the scotus decision honorable?

[MohRokTah]

17. Comparing primaries to a general election is the height of ignorance.

There is no comparison whatsoever. They are completely different processes.

[libtodeath]

21. You simply dont like that it is the same general situation as you proposed

I guess the court were simply cooler headed super delegates.

[MohRokTah]

26. No, you are confusing two completely different things.

That is the height of ignorance.

Comparing the Electoral College to the delegates for a national convention demonstrates total ignorance of how the systems function.

[libtodeath]

28. No I am not,I am using exactly the same principle that you laid out.

[MohRokTah]

33. You are using the principle of how national parties determine delegates to a national convention...

to how states choose electors for the Electoral College vote to be read before the committee as a whole in Congress.

You are saying this fish right here is just like that bicycle over there.

The two are completely different process, one laid out by party officials elected though a nominating process in the states and the other laid out by the constitution.

The two processes are completely different.

[libtodeath]

34. Now you want to talk process but in your op you were pushing princple

So the goal posts moved.

[MohRokTah]

37. You are the one moving goal posts. My OP said nothing about the Electoral College

My OP stands as 100% accurate.

IF you want your guy to win, duplicate what Obama did in 2008. If neither candidate does that, then the Super Delegates will be the tie breaker on the first ballot at the convention.

[libtodeath]

41. You talk about a tie being settled by cooler heads (super delegates)

We had a tie in a election and the scotus settled it in favor of the one receiving a fewer number of votes thus giving him the win.
Sounds like what you want the super delegates to do with Hillary.

[MohRokTah]

71. The Electoral College is not the same as a Democratic National Convention.

I suggest a remedial Civics course. Maybe then you'll understand the difference.

[libtodeath]

72. I suggest you understand the principles behind your own op

maybe then you will see how silly what you posted was.

[MohRokTah]

73. I clearly do understand the principles of my OP, just as you clearly DO NOT. eom

[libtodeath]

74. Whatever

[MohRokTah]

75. I cannot recommend a remedial Civics course for you more highly. eom

[libtodeath]

76. I recommend a good course in common sense for you but not waiting on it.

[MohRokTah]

78. Come back once you've learned the difference between the Electorakl college and a party's

national convention.

[libtodeath]

79. Come back once you have learned that principles you put forward apply where you dont want them to.

[MohRokTah]

80. Again, you prove my point. You are incapable of distinguishing the difference between

the Electoral College and the Democratic National Convention.

It terrifies me that people who do not understand the way the systems function can vote.

[libtodeath]

81. ZZZZZZZZ

Keep blathering

[MohRokTah]

82. Have a happy nap.

[SheenaR]

63. Hillary only won the popular vote

If you exclude EVERY caucus and include a state where Obama wasn't even on the ballot because of it's illegal move (Michigan)

But I'm sure you knew that

[MohRokTah]

67. Caucuses do not report a popular vote becuse nobody votes.

They caucus.

[SheenaR]

69. Obama won them all

This skewing the numbers in Hillarys favor by not including even a percentage of the voters. Plenty of counts do include accurate estimates. She loses then.

[MohRokTah]

70. No, he didn't win them all.

He lost Nevada, for example.

Most of the smaller ones that had previously been ignored by the Dems he won handily, taking the vast majority of delegates.

[jeff47]

10. Sure they can.

Candidate A has 45%. Candidate B has 43%. Candidate C has 12%.

I think you'd consider "the will of the people" to be candidate A, since candidate A has more votes.

Superdelegates can give it to candidate B.

[seaotter]

12. They wont.

[jeff47]

20. They won't does not mean they can't.

I don't think the party's dumb enough to destroy itself by having superdelegates overrule the popular vote winner.

But I used to think that was certain. Now, it's more like 80/20.

[seaotter]

22. It means they will not.

They will not.

[MohRokTah]

13. Nope, that's a tie.

Super Delegates decide. If enough do not vote for the right candidate, it goes to a second ballot and a floor fight. In that case, C could win the whole shebang.

That's the process. If you do not like it, start your own party.

[jeff47]

16. Nope. 45 > 43. This isn't predictive polling. There is no margin of error. (nt)

[MohRokTah]

19. it takes 50% + 1 to win

In your scenario, nobody won. IT's a tie.

[jeff47]

24. A tie means they got the same number of votes.

That is not the case in the made-up numbers I listed. A got more votes. That doesn't mean they have enough votes to win the nomination, but it still means they have more votes than B.

So clearly, more voters preferred A. Superdelegates can give it to B, despite the voters preferring A.

[MohRokTah]

27. That's not what Sanders supporters said about Iowa. eom

[jeff47]

32. You'll note the Sanders supporters usually included phrasing like

"virtual tie" or "basically, a tie".

But hey, I'm not the one claiming Sanders needs 57% to secure a 50% + 1 victory and Sanders is failing if he doesn't poll at 100% in VT, so maybe maths r hrd!!

[MohRokTah]

38. My OP contained the same verbiage. eom

[seaotter]

18. You are assuming that Hillary will not "pull the plug" ....

when it becomes evident that she can not win. I do not think she will wait for the "last dog to be hung" before she cries "uncle"

Bernie Sanders will be nominated by acclamation at the Democratic Convention.

[MohRokTah]

23. In 2008, Hllary Clinton participated in EVERY primary and Caucus.

Barack Obama won with greater than 50% of the delegates before the end.

The Super Delegate were moot.

I keep hearing how Sanders is the Obama of 2016. If that's true, he will clearly win without the Super Delegates being a factor. Anything short of that is not a win and the Super Delegates decide the outcome.

[seaotter]

29. Check your calendar...it is now 2016.

Bernie will be nominated by acclamation. That is all.

[MohRokTah]

39. Check back in March.

Sanders will have numerous massive defeats in March.

In April, he will no longer have anything resembling a path to the nomination.

[seaotter]

43. "Cling" to that, if it gives you comfort.

Bernie Sanders will be nominated by acclamation at the convention.

[MohRokTah]

44. No need to cling to anyting. No way can Sanders win the nomination. eom

[seaotter]

45. Can, and will.

Bernie Sanders will be nominated by acclamation at the convention, then he will go on to beat the republican "turd of the day".

That is all.

[MohRokTah]

46. It'll be over for all intents and purposes on March 1.

By then it will be evident he cannot achieve a majority of delegates.

[seaotter]

47. Cling tightly.

[MohRokTah]

48. The only clinging going on here is by you.

[seaotter]

49. Not "clinging " to anything, here.

Bernie Sanders Will be the nominee. He will be nominated by acclamation. You will vote for him in the General.

[MohRokTah]

50. You are clinging to the naive notion that Sanders could possibly win.

[seaotter]

51. More emoji please.

Of course he can, and will win.

[MohRokTah]

52. No, he really can't. eom

[seaotter]

54. He, in fact, will.

and you will vote for him in the general.

[MohRokTah]

56. He, in fact, won't.

and you will vote for Hillary in the general.

[seaotter]

59. You left out an "a".

Not to worry, though, President Sanders will not hold that against you.

[MohRokTah]

60. I won't give a flying flip what a "president Sanders" thinks.

Fictitious characters are meaningless and the only place Sanders will ever be president is in fevered fiction.

[seaotter]

61. When you vote for Bernie Sanders in November, just remember, All is forgiven.

[MohRokTah]

62. I will be voting for Hillary Clinton in November.

You will be too!

[seaotter]

66. I do not do write ins.

I will be voting for the Democratic Nominee, Bernie Sanders.

[MohRokTah]

68. Neither do I

I will be voting for the Democratic Nominee, Hillary Clinton.

[morningfog]

31. You are just wrong. Your math and premise is flawed.

[MohRokTah]

35. No, I am not wrong. It takes 50% + 1 delegate out of the total number of delegates

to the national convention to nominate.

IF no candidate can win that number in the primaries and caucuses, THEY DID NOT WIN. It is a virtual tie.

Thus, the Suepr Delegates can make the final determination on the first ballot at the convention.

Obama won more than 50% of the total delegates just through the primaries and caucuses in the states.

If you want your candidate to win, you need to duplicate what Obama did in 2008.

[morningfog]

53. Read my post 30.

You are dead wrong in your math and analysis.

[morningfog]

57. Obama did not secure 50+1 without the super delegates.

[seaotter]

2. Interesting theory, but this will be over before the convention.

Bernie will be nominated by acclamation. No worries.

[Chichiri]

4. LOL. nt

[MohRokTah]

6. He needs to get about 57% of the rest of the delegates up for grabs to do that. eom

[seaotter]

8. That is only with "Hillary" math.

Can't count the "supers" until their votes are cast. Sorry, try again.

[MohRokTah]

14. ~57% of the remaining delegates up for grabs in the primaries and caucuses is about 50% + 1 of the

total delegates.

That's what Obama did in 2008.

Let's see your candidate measure up to Obama's 2008 race, otherwise, it's a tie.

[Chichiri]

36. Technically, you can't count ANYONE until the votes are cast.

Pledged delegates have pledged for their candidate, but they're not required to vote for him at the convention. Not that there's the slightest chance that this will happen, but every Bernie delegate can vote for Hillary at the convention without breaking any laws or rules.

We can still keep score before that, however, by looking at what we know.

[MohRokTah]

40. Actually, pledged delegates MUST vote for their candidate on the first ballot.

That is in the rules.

They are not free to vote how they choose until a second ballot or beyond.

[seaotter]

77. True that!

[Chichiri]

3. Cooler heads is right. nt

[Xipe Totec]

7. Peachy Cool Arrows?

[berniepdx420]

25. Laughable ... quite Democratic don't ya think.. The establishment cronies putting in Bylaws that

would give the nomination to one of their own cronies... how creative. If you think the 68 Convention was fevered.. well just let the super-delegates steal a nomination from the people in 2016...

[morningfog]

30. But for the supers sitting on 15%, a race between two candidates would necessarily result in 50% +1.

If the super delegates were not holding a portion, any two-way race would always result in one candidate getting 50% plus 1.

The reason one candidate may not make it to the 50 + 1 of total delegates is because 15% of them come from the supers.

And Obama did NOT have enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination. He had a majority of the pledged delegates, but relied on the supers to achieve the 2118 to be nominated in 2008

Your OP is just factually inaccurate.

[kristopher]

42. Glad I scrolled though before posting. Thank you for helping Moh with arithmetic.

[morningfog]

64. I'm not sure he's got it yet.

[kristopher]

65. He's "got it" but it isn't what he's selling.

[mcar]

55. K&R

[daleanime]

58. Don't you mean...

"$" heads?