Please don't focus on one tree (Clinton or Sanders) and lose site of the forest.

[RealAmericanDem]

The most important outcome of the '16 election will be the nominations to the Supreme Court. Besides filling Scala's seat we have two liberal judges who will most likely retire during the next president's term. We have seen the devastation of a 5 to 4 court, imagine a 7 to 2 court that leans repub/conservative. No doubt Roe v Wade would be overturned and that would just be the tip of the iceberg. Planned Parenthood would be gone within months of repub president taking office.

I wish we had a candidate that had less baggage than Hillary and I wish Sanders had always been a democrat who did not have the "socialist" tag next to his name.

Fox news has done an excellent job smearing Hillary and Obama's justice department has not helped letting the email BS go on for so long. Say what you want about W, he did not allow "investigations" into any area that could hurt the republicans. From castrating the 9/11 investigation to deleting emails and quashing any investigation into the political firings of the Federal state attorney's Bush's administration kept the lid on.

White seniors make up the biggest voting block. The dems don't win them but we still need the percentage that voted for Obama and Clinton. Sanders, because of his socialist tag will not get them. Millennials think Scandinavia when they hear the term "socialist". Seniors think communist Russia and they will not be educated away from that connotation. There is a reason that Karl Rove's super pac is doing anti-Hillary pro Bernie ads. Republicans are praying that Sanders win the primary for good reason.

Bottom line is that dems can't afford to fight with each other. The repubs are getting record turnouts at their primaries, the dems are not. We will lose '16 if we don't all come together. Discourse in the primary is fine but dems parroting Fox talking points against Hillary will have negative long term effects.

[EdwardBernays]

1. That won't work.

For two reasons:

- Clinton's scorched earth campaign and her inability to win over huge demographic blocks mean that between the alienated and the disinterested she's gonna find rallying the party extremely difficult.

- Many Sanders supporters will vote their concious. Their concious tells them Clinton is corrupt and dishonest. Progressives dont vote for people like that. Even out of fear.

Additionally:

- Clinton is very weak against Trump. For reasons which have been listed repeatedly. Many people - not just hardcore Sanders supporters - think a vote for Clinton in the primaries is a vote for President Trump. If the party nominates a very weak candidate then no ammount of unity will matter.

[RealAmericanDem]

2. Sounds like you are ready to accept a repub president.

Sanders does not seem able to connect with the Black or Hispanic blocks. No dem can win the general or the nomination without them. Hillary will be the nominee for this reason.

Clinton being "corrupt and dishonest" are nothing more than Fox succeeding at their smear campaign.

"Many Sanders supporters will vote their conscious" . Hope they enjoy a repub president because not supporting the dem nominee will make that happen.

Clinton will eat Trump alive in the debates and on the campaign trail.
_______________

Understand something; I would be thrilled beyond belief if Bernie won the presidency. I just don't believe it will happen without the Black and Hispanic blocks. As a lawyer I also know that a 7 - 2 conservative/repub Supreme Court will be devastating to progressives and the long term effects will be generational. You can't vote them out of office.

[peacebird]

3. Clinton is corrupt & dishonest. That is on HER, not Fox. The DNC decided it was her turn. Blame THEM

when she loses, not me.

[EdwardBernays]

6. Absolutely

Sanders supporters are the ones trying to save the party from its own corrupt self.

[RiverLover]

13. +2!

[EdwardBernays]

4. No

Trump can run against Clinton from the left or the right.

He will have endless ammunition to use against someone that is already distrusted by the majority of Americans.

Plus, Clinton is extremely corrupt and dishonest. Progressives can't be forced, bullied or scared into voting for someone like that.

If the DNC - which has been shedding support for years - needs to change. Hillary represents the status quo at best.

She will lose and you will have a Republican President.

Best come to terms with that.

No one is going to buy Clintonites fake confusion when she loses.

[PonyUp]

5. You are a lawyer and don't realize Clinton is corrupt and dishonest? Wow. n/t

[RealAmericanDem]

11. Nope

She is just a politician. Remember, there was a time that Obama said he only supported marriage between one man and one women.

Please re-read the OP.

Not only am I a lawyer but I am also a one percenter. A repub president won't hurt me but a repub president will change this country in ways that will make you shudder. Again, if you keep your focus on one tree and miss the forest you will help put the repub in office. Remember how dems voting for Nader gave the election to W.

[PonyUp]

12. I believe the Supreme Court gave W the presidency, not Nader votes. n/t

[RealAmericanDem]

16. But for dems voting for Nader the issue would never have been before the court.

The numbers don't lie.

[TM99]

34. Not this shit again.

Educate yourself. More Democrats voted for GW Bush in Florida than they did for Nader. (200,000 versus 90,000)

Had they voted for Gore, then perhaps it would not have been too close to steal.

Those are the actual numbers, not this thoroughly debunked meme you keep pushing.

[PonyUp]

17. You are in the 1% so it won't affect you with either Clinton/Trump but it will with Bernie? n/t

[RealAmericanDem]

22. 1%'s will be fine with Bernie

1%'ers are always fine regardless of who holds any political office. The people who will really be hurt by a repub president are the middle and the bottom.

[RiverLover]

18. A repub president will change the country. Like trade deals that wipe out the middle class & turn

the US into a service economy?

Deregulate wall street? Commit the US to war without congressional approval? Let the EPA be overrun with oil industry execs? Allow radioactive waste to be barged on the Ohio River?

Why the hell do you think we want Sanders? The parties are acting basically the same. With different rhetoric.

Why do you think Trump is winning? it isn't just his perverse appeal to racists.

He is rejecting SuperPACS, talking against Democratic presidents' NAFTA & TPP, neocon war policies, and has spoken in favor of universal health care.

He's to the LEFT of Clinton.

We need Sanders to beat him & Bernie WOULD. As long as people in the press stop lying & saying he's a socialist, when he's a Democratic Socialist which is completely different.

[PufPuf23]

28. Its is far past time to drop the canard that dems voting for Nader gave the election to W.

Dems voting for GWB and Liberman as VP nominee made the 2000 POTUS election close.

Voting irregularities, a bad act by the USSC, and failure to try much less stay the course by Gore the Democratic leadership gave the election to GWB.

That Nader canard is and always has been a weak excuse that says more about those that would opine such rather than reality.

Trump has the ability to make Hillary Clinton "lose it" in debate; not by policy substance but by his arrogance.

As a 1%, no doubt you are a neoliberal. The neoliberal and traditional liberal divide in the Democratic party is an issue to be solved as the political philosophies run counter except for issues of cultural and identity politics where neoliberals (such as Obama and the Clintons are as Machivellian as the neoconservatives, they just play to more educated and diverse groups). It may take an actual split in the party to solve the divide.

For the last 25 years the neoliberals in the Democratic party have ascended and have been hell bent on destroying the 20th century Democratic Party gains of the New Deal / Great Society while enhancing the power of concentrated capital and extending the global military and economic empire.

If "we" lose the 2016 election to Trump / GOP, the fault will lie solely in the lap of the neoliberal Democrats and the Democratic Party leadership that prematurely crowned Hillary Clinton the Democratic POTUS nominee.

Based upon voting history and stated policy, Sanders should be a walk-over within the Party versus Clinton.

I say this not because Bernie Sanders is my ideal candidate but that he has been the only one willing to step forward to slow the travesty of the Democratic leadership not doing a good job of representing most Democratic voters either legislatively or in getting Democrats into office.

If Clinton had not competed in 2016, we would have had a healthy range of Democratic candidates still weakened by the stranglehold of the neoliberals.

You are correct in that HRC is just a politician.

It sickens me and makes me angry to come on to DU and see the negative tones and smears. The source at DU is not GOP operatives.

[azurnoir]

7. as a lawyer do you recognize the gaping hole between ethical and legal where Clinton dwells?

[PotatoChip]

8. I don't want an R president. That is why Bernie has my vote.

And another thing-- Bernie won the Hispanic vote in Nevada by 8%

[RealAmericanDem]

9. Nope

Looking at the vote by precinct in locations with a higher concentration of Hispanic voters, the analysis suggested Clinton won more county delegates in those precincts than those in other locations.

[PotatoChip]

14. Well maybe you should take it up with NBC? I'm using their stats.

Hispanic/Latino- Sanders53% Clinton45% Uncommitted2%

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/primaries/NV

[RealAmericanDem]

19. Try this link

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/upshot/why-clinton-not-sanders-probably-won-the-hispanic-vote-in-nevada.html?_r=0

[PotatoChip]

24. So you want me to go with this guy's opinion, rather than the numbers?

Got it.

[TM99]

35. She won the counties

but lost the voters.

Almost 10% more Hispanics voted for Sanders.

For a lawyer, you sure are lose with the facts and figures.

Would that have anything to do with why you support the Clintons?

[JimDandy]

40. LOL! Love a good zing. n/t

[Shadowflash]

31. Yup.

I'm tired of voting for corrupt people just because they are the lesser of two evils.

This time around I have the opportunity to vote for someone who shares my values, and I'm going to do it.

In the primary AND the general election. And, if that candidate in the GE is not the Democrat, then so be it.

[PeaceNikki]

10. Some here seem to support PP being obliterated. And abortion with it.

[demwing]

15. One more time -this is PRIMARY SEASON

when we fight it out over who will lead our party. This year is especially critical, because we'll determine what it means to be a Democrat, and the future of our party will be cast.

None of this is breaking news. Why are we still having this "get along, move along debate" now, before we've selected a candidate?

Better question - You have named yourself "RealAmericanDem." In a year when the soul of the party is up for grabs, what exactly does being a real American Democrat mean to you?

[RealAmericanDem]

20. I am a progressive and a realist.

Like I said before, I would be thrilled beyond belief if Sanders won the presidency. But I am a realist and know it won't happen. He will not even win the dem nomination.

Try this good read:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/22/this-is-the-date-bernie-sanders-berns-out.html

[demwing]

21. Before we talk further, please answer my previous question

In a year when the soul of the party is up for grabs, what exactly does being a "Real American Democrat" mean to you?

Are there Democrats that are not real? Americans that are not real? Please elaborate...

[RealAmericanDem]

25. should have been "Realistic American Dem"

[Kentonio]

37. Perhaps we're sick of the 1% telling us what is and isn't possible

[Persondem]

23. Very sensible. K & R nt

[RealAmericanDem]

26. Good link, thank you

To win a general a candidate must move to the middle.

[azmom]

27. I'm done voting for corrupt politicians.

No to both the DNC and the GOP.

[RealAmericanDem]

29. Forget the politicians.

Reread the OP. The real issue is the next Supreme Court. Do you have any concept of what a 7 -2 repub/conservative Supreme Court will do to the USA for the next 20+ years.

[azmom]

30. I've heard all the arguments and I decided.

It wasn't an easy decision, but I can't in good conscious cast my vote for any of those corrupt assholes.

[TM99]

36. Yeah, we need a Democrat to nominate

a real progressive liberal to the SCOTUS.

But wait, we have a Democratic president, and he is floating a Republican governor as his possible first pick.

Tired argument is now a fail.

[Nay]

38. Thank you. Inexplicably, Obama floats a Pub governor as a

possible SC pick, and we're supposed to believe that it is so, so necessary to get a Dem president because of SC choices? It boggles the mind. Does Obama not know the effect this has on us? What are we to think? That he didn't mean it? That he's faking out the Pubs? Maybe he is, but why not wait to float a Pub until after Super Tuesday?

Inexplicable. And it surely doesn't reassure us that Hillary would be nominating liberals to the SC.

[JimDandy]

41. The DNC was so unconcerned by that fact

that they ran Clinton, a previously failed primary candidate that was, and still is, unpalatable to a large number of party members. Force feeding results in predictable choking and gagging. You should have tried to persuade the DNC with these arguments, because you don't have much of a audience here who are sympathetic to your cause.

[RealAmericanDem]

32. Why do you think the RWNJ's constantly attack Hillary?

Could it be they are all praying for Sanders?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. I'm a white senior (I'll be 72 next Tuesday) and I don't waste my votes on neolibs.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. So many posters on DU who think saying 'I'm a lawyer' gives them credibility. I'm not a lawyer but

I've been hiring and firing them since I was in my early 20's and I'm here to tell you that few are worth much, most have very narrow areas of practice and many are not worth their hourly rate at all.

Democrats can't afford to fight with each other, but Straight Democrats attacked LGBT Democrats relentlessly for years, Hillary right up until 2013. There were never cries raised that we could not afford their divisive attacks on us.

[Barack_America]

42. I assure you, I am.

Hillary and what she represents is an invasive vine choking out the forest.

[Broward]

43. How about running on expanding SS? It's good policy and good politics

that may help with the senior vote. Vote for Bernie.

[RealAmericanDem]

44. Notice no one has addressed this part of the OP

"White seniors make up the biggest voting block. The dems don't win them but we still need the percentage that voted for Obama and Clinton. Sanders, because of his socialist tag will not get them. Millennials think Scandinavia when they hear the term "socialist". Seniors think communist Russia and they will not be educated away from that connotation."