I Thought I Was Reading The Onion

[72DejaVu]

Sen. Bernie Sanders pointed to his leadership as mayor of Burlington as a qualification for dealing with Russian President Vladimir Putin if he is elected president.
Speaking with MSNBC's Chris Matthews in Chicago on Thursday night, Sanders was asked whether he has the necessary foreign policy experience to handle Putin.
"I took on a lot of people as mayor of Burlington," Sanders said, according to DNA Info Chicago. "I think I can stand up to Putin and all the others."


[link:http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/bernie-sanders-vladimir-putin-219847|

[KingFlorez]

1. Someone had similar logic in 2008

Something about their state being close to Putin's country.

[nc4bo]

22. And a special someone said the Jr. Senator for Illinois was too naive and inexperienced

to be POTUS and CIC, being that his only experience was just a two-bit community organizer.

Wasn't SHE some kinda special too?!

[daleanime]

29. Ah, the things....

you try to forget.

[itsrobert]

2. SNL,Larry David playing BS "I can see Russia from my house"

[RobertEarl]

3. Yeah

Look what Hillary gas done with Putin. She forced him into a war in Syria. And he's winning! Good job, H!

[nichomachus]

15. We know what Hillary will do

And it will be a disaster. She was one of our worst Secretaries of State. Total failure.

[RobertEarl]

17. Kissinger was the worst

And he's her good friend and she took advice from him.

So, yeah, we can't expect Hillary to be driving a peace train.

[hifiguy]

18. Vell, zhe vill be taking advize from her gut friend

Henry Kissinger, so there's that.

Sucking up to a war criminal is apparently something DUers now think is just ducky.

[NanceGreggs]

30. Only three posts in ...

... and we're already in "But what about HER!?! territory.

It seems that it is impossible for BS supporters to comment on anything Bernie says or does without having to resort to that tired old tactic.

Are Bernie's statements and actions unable to be discussed/defended on their own, without bringing HRC into the conversation?

[tk2kewl]

32. you don't have to take our word for it that Bernie's a much better foreign policy choice

you don't have to take any of these peoples word for it either

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-the-foreign-policy-realist-of-2016/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/24/sanders-the-realist-hillary-the-neocon/

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-2016-foreign-policy-report-card/

you can stick with the international law breakers Kissenger-Kagan-Clinton, but i'll opt for a more realistic approach

[RobertEarl]

36. But it's true

Hillary has managed to practically make a hero out of Putin.

It's a good thing she quit and let a real diplomat take over. Go Kerry!

[NanceGreggs]

40. What's true?

That Bernie supporters can't discuss anything about HIM without saying "But what about HER!?!"

That's pretty obvious by now, isn't it?

I just wonder why Bernie's actions/statements can never be discussed on their own merits, without an instant comparison to Hillary.

[RobertEarl]

46. What about her?

Send them back, she said about homeless kids from the Honduran war.

Kissinger is my friend and I take advice from him.

We came, we saw, he died, about Libya.

I get that it is quite embarrassing to some to hear talk of the truths about Hillary, but there it is.

As for Bernie, he'll be driving a peace train. And not be on a war path.

[NanceGreggs]

54. Thanks for proving my point.

The OP is about a statement made by BERNIE about HIS qualifications, HIS role as mayor Burlington, HIS ability to deal with Putin if HE was elected president.

Why can't Bernie's statements be discussed/defended without talking about HRC's stance on anything? What does Hillary's position on any topic whatsoever have to do with Bernie's statements about HIS position on how HE would handle Putin?

When one's only response to what BERNIE says or does is "But what about HER?!?", it becomes increasingly apparent that one can't come up with a substantive response to "what about HIM and what HE just said".

[RobertEarl]

55. Proceed, Nance

You have the floor. Tell us about Bernie. Let it all out.

[NanceGreggs]

57. So you still haven't figured out a way ...

... to explain why Bernie's own statements can't be discussed without changing the subject to Hillary.

I knew that. Thanks again for proving my point.

[RobertEarl]

60. Shucks

I was hoping we could get back on topic. Hey, I tried.

Bernie will be driving a peace train. Never can it be said that they came to Burlington, they saw and they died. Sure, his opponents slinked away, crippled, but Bernie did offer them health care, so there is that.

[NanceGreggs]

61. The topic is clearly set out in the OP.

The topic is Bernie's statement about his qualifications to deal with Putin.

Apparently you can't discuss THAT topic.

[RobertEarl]

62. Apparently you can't discuss THAT topic

Bernie says he can handle Putin. I trust Bernie.

Apparently you can't discuss THAT topic

[NanceGreggs]

69. Oh, sure I can.

The notion that his having been the mayor Burlington, Vermont, qualifies Bernie to handle Putin is embarrassingly naive and totally ridiculous.

"I took on a lot of people as mayor of Burlington." I'm sure he did. I am also sure that his ability to "take on" people in Vermont contributed nothing to the knowledge, expertise, and experience necessary to deal with international affairs.

It was a really laugh-worthy statement. It made him look as though he honestly believes that being a mayor in Vermont and being POTUS are, ya know, pretty much the same thing.

Dumb move on Bernie's part. Extremely dumb.

[72DejaVu]

77. Hey, that's a great idea for a bumper sticker

"Bernie said. I believe it. That settles it."

Or has something like that been done?

[7wo7rees]

76. There is the quote I have been searching for!

We came, we saw, he died" and then our Secretary of State laughed. Heartless.

And honestly Nance, I am flummoxed by your stance. Truly.

[tk2kewl]

49. it's an election between 2 people. if you don't bother comparing them...

why bother at all?

[NanceGreggs]

56. This isn't about a "comparison".

It's about Bernie making a specific statement about HIS qualifications, which he is basing on HIS role as a mayor of Burlington.

So what does Hillary's stance on anything have to do with Bernie's statement about HIS qualifications?

[tk2kewl]

59. no it's about boiling his life's work down to single sentence so you can feel smart

if you want to know something about his qualifications here are some links:

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-the-foreign-policy-realist-of-2016/

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-2016-foreign-policy-report-card/

sorry, but he does get compared with Hillary in this one:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/24/sanders-the-realist-hillary-the-neocon/

[NanceGreggs]

64. "Boiling his life's work ...

... down to a single sentence"?

Seriously?

[tk2kewl]

67. point me to where hillary supporters in this thread

are discussing his qualifications seriously. read the links i provide and offer some discussion. otherwise, yeah, seriously

[72DejaVu]

78. I don't take his qualifications seriously

[artislife]

38. At least when we counter, we talk about the opposing candidate

and not their supporters.

But then, issues are not priority in camp weathervane.

[NanceGreggs]

43. Doesn't change the fact ...

... that it looks like you can't discuss Bernie without changing the subject to talk about HRC.

Why can't Bernie's statements and actions be discussed on the basis of what HE says and does, instead of on the basis of what Hillary says and does?

Are his statements and actions so devoid of substance they can't be discussed on their own?

[rock]

68. Excellent NanceGreggs

On this and your preceding posts. As usually the other side cannot concentrate on a single point but are over the map like a bloodhound! Thanks.

[artislife]

71. Oh BS. This is not a one sided tactic

It is just that self reflection is one more thing that is absent at Camp Weathervane.

[tk2kewl]

4. Good one

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-2016-foreign-policy-report-card/

[72DejaVu]

7. You're touting Bernie's high grades from The American Conservative?

OK, if that's what you want to go with.

[tk2kewl]

9. Foreign policy realism. Yeah, I'll go with that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-the-foreign-policy-realist-of-2016/

[tk2kewl]

13. let's make the distinction while we're at it as well

you can go with the necon Kissenger-Kagan-Clinton school and I'll stick with Bernie's realism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511330832

[artislife]

39. Better than a h camp front. nt

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. Yikes! I would consider it a plus if they got straight "F's..... From that org.

[Matariki]

5. And what exactly was Obama's foreign policy experience?

Or most Presidents when they start office?

[nolabels]

24. Was it that he knew (unlike his predecessor) at what place on the map Gitmo was located

Or was it that he didn't fall for that ole trick of hiding under the rosebushies

[72DejaVu]

6. Bernie is ready to stand up to any threat

Putin, the Chinese, those bastards on the Zoning Commission...

[pkdu]

8. DUZY!!!!! nt

[tk2kewl]

14. another good one

Casualties of the Iraq War (children)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511327192

[NanceGreggs]

26. Definite DUZY!

[brer cat]

37. ...

[NurseJackie]

82. Ha!! :-D

[Katashi_itto]

10. Hillary has already proven hers by dodging sniper fire.

[840high]

53. u betcha - what a hero

[Carlo Marx]

11. Vermont used to be a Republican state.

Actually, it took some serious ones to maintain a political career as a socialist during the cold war. Reagan fired up the nationalist hysyeria, so Bernie endured more hateful opposition than most. I'd say he's as tough as any politician who's ever held office.

[scscholar]

52. If you can fight off Raygun...

you can fight off anyone!

[Hortensis]

12. Ouch. Not his finest moment. I would like to see

Bernie in a tough-guy one-on-one with Putin, though. Bernie would have no tolerance for him and his bullying ways and would likely have his usual problem hiding his contempt for opponents in heated moments.

[NurseJackie]

21. I've always thought this ...

... he wears his emotions in his sleeve ... seems impatient ... not really a good combination for international diplomacy efforts.

[Hortensis]

35. No, for sure. But the pros would handle most of the negotiations.

Bernie's no doubt not only aware of his temperament limitations but has absolutely no desire to change. They arise from his belief in his own moral and ideologic superiority. I could see them meeting just so he could say no with his usual tremendous conviction. And of course now internationally famous finger waggle.

[NurseJackie]

65. Ugh. :-/ Don't remind me.

[Hortensis]

80. Lol. I think he's kind of cute when he's not badmouthing H,

and by extension me.

[NurseJackie]

81. I take your meaning ... but "cute" isn't what comes to my mind.

I'll say no more for obvious reasons.

[Hortensis]

85. Oh, there's a lot else I could say, too. Like I would be very afraid

to trust him with unlimited power. He can be cute because that could never happen.

[Armstead]

27. Make up your minds peoples. Is a a "wimp" or too mean?

And Clinton sure did do a good job of making Vlad mend his ways. He's been huddled in the corner with his thumb in his mouth ever since.

[Jarqui]

16. He traveled to Cuba and met with their politicians (except Castro)

Havana became a sister city of Burlington. He called on the US to normalize relations with Cuba.

He did something similar with Yaroslav, Russia and some citizens exchanged to live in the other's city to try to help improve relations. He honeymooned with Jane there.

He also did it with Nicaragua, met with their top politicians including the opposition and media and went after President Reagan, trying to make sure he didn't turn South America into another Vietnam. I think he staged a notable rally for this - got some press. He also did some lengthy interviews, etc.

He spoke out against apartheid and campaigned for the divestment movement from South Africa, supporting Nelson Mandela's efforts. He was asked to attend Mandela's inauguration and went..

All of that happened while he was mayor of Burlington except Mandela's inauguration.

Before he became mayor (I think) he traveled to Canada and met with the separatists there to find out what that was all about.

Not your normal mayor when it came to outreach to other countries.

Before Vermont or shortly after he got there, he'd lived on a kibbutz in Israel and spent 18 months travelling around Europe.

After his days as mayor, as a congressman & senator, he continued his international efforts with Canada, Mexico (senate study), revisited Cuba (Guantanamo) a couple of times, Columbia, Chile, cut an oil deal with Venezuela for the state of Vermont, Indonesia, Vietnam, China (senate), Afghanistan, spoke out against Palestine and Israel at different times, etc.

He hasn't put on the miles Clinton has. But he's got a little more experience than Caribou Barbie. I don't think it was unfair of him to mention it.

I would say that because of that experience, he wasn't in an uninformed position which helped him make a good call against the war in Iraq. It's helped his judgement.

[72DejaVu]

20. You have convinced me

I will fully support Bernie if he runs for mayor of Burlington again.

[tk2kewl]

23. "a mistake"

[NanceGreggs]

28. Two DUZYs in one thread!

You are on a roll tonight, my friend!

[smiley]

47. I doubt he'll do that after serving as POTUS...

[Jarqui]

72. I think he's got the Governor of Alaska all wrapped up! nt

[DrDan]

86. you tout his visits to his sister-cities as mayor as evidence of leadership abilties in

foreign affairs? Really?

You should include reciprocal visits as "Hosted international dignitaries in official role as mayor."

oh yeah - he attended an inauguration.

Please recognize how desperate this appears.

[Jarqui]

87. "evidence of leadership abilties in profile foreign affairs?"

Making up things because you cannot read and comprehend what others are saying doesn't make what you are claiming true.

The general suggestion was that he was like Palin with his experience with other countries.
My answer clearly shows that he was not.

He cited these experiences generally as mayor and I maintain that it was very fair for him to do so.

Sanders didn't merely visit these countries like a tourist. He connected with politicians there and had cultural exchanges after he left - their people coming to his city and residents of Burlington going there. When one does that, it goes well beyond being a mere tourist. He made the effort to understand the country and concerns of it's people from political leaders who led it and the people who lived it -which is a credible thing if he's going to be overseeing foreign policy that affects that country. In some cases, he took up their causes - working to help them with issues that were important to them ... you know, kind of like what a Secretary of State sometimes does.

He lived in a kibbutz for 6 months. Don't you think what he learned and experienced there would help him deal with Israel today? Rational people would in a heartbeat.

He lived in Europe for 18 months. When one does that, they learn what makes a country tick - how they make money - their geography, their industries, what the people there are concerned about, some appreciation for their history and culture, etc. Things that are essential to know as a diplomat or someone in foreign service or even a president of the United States.

Attending a funeral? Looks like you're having trouble keeping up and again, wildly imagining me saying things I didn't say.

The attending of the Mandela inauguration (if that's what you confusing .... funerals are not the same as inaugurations, you know) was in part recognition for what he did to support Mandela and Bernie's stand against apartheid - which he did something about. Someone, not as ignorant as some, recognized his efforts for South Africa and had him attend the inauguration. Not a bad thing for South Africans to see an American who stood up for them - it's a credit for America. His attendance substantiates something you do not give him credit for. Kind of sad that I had to even spell that out. And he'd be hobnobbing with world leaders and diplomats at the inauguration, kind of like networking in business, which is not such a terrible experience either.

It underscores that throughout his life, he has had sincere interest in foreign affairs and he's sometimes acted on it. He went beyond the textbook, got his hands dirty, sometimes took up their causes and gathered valuable experience.

When you step back and look at his start in high school of trying to raise money for Korean orphans scholarships, in college beyond civil rights, his anti-war stance against Vietnam, his demonstrations against nuclear war, etc, what you see is a person concerned with the planet and how we all get along. You also see a foreign policy developing at a very young age in this man that has been perpetually worked on, constantly nurtured with more first hand knowledge and has stood the test of time - to get votes like the one on the Iraq war right.

Bernie has been working on his foreign affairs since he was in high school. No matter what you say, most folks would give him some credit for that. He's not just pulling foreign policy out of thin air. He's thought about it and been involved with it all of his adult life - for more than 50 years. If you're going to be a good captain, you've got to learn how to be a good sailor first. I think Bernie's made a pretty good effort at that.

[DrDan]

90. look my friend - I have lived abroad for 10 years - on 3 different continents

day-to-day experience with those citizens, politicians, and business folks.

I have first hand experience with sister-cities.

I have absolutely NO expectations that I am prepared to sit with Putin

(yeah - caught that funeral/inauguration mistake right after I posted the first time - edited it - not sure why I read "funeral)

[Jarqui]

95. That's you. Guess what? You're not Bernie Sanders.

Have you had the interest he's had in foreign affairs? What political leaders did you sit with?

What foreign experience credentials did Obama have when he was a candidate that Bernie does not? Obama had been tied down in Chicago for quite some time. School before that. What foreign experience credentials did Bill Clinton have when he was a candidate that Bernie does not? Clinton had been AG & Governor of Arkansas. How about Jimmy Carter, the peanut farmer? How about JFK? Which one of those candidates palled around with the leader of Russia/Soviet Union before they became president?

So you're making up an arbitrary standard that's in your own mind.

Sanders met with Ortega, spent a lot of time with his foreign minister, spent time with leaders of their opposition and with their media. Who the hell else was he supposed to see? Must have been someone since that wasn't good enough for you.

Putin dismissed Hillary as a woman. He has little respect for her. Women's equality is way behind the US in many nations. To me, that handicaps Hillary - makes it tougher.

[DrDan]

97. my standard - my vote - and he does not measure up

[Oilwellian]

19. This is just blatant propaganda and a misrepresentation of what Bernie said

Tweety never asked him if he had the foreign policy experience to handle Putin. Perhaps you should do your homework rather than taking this obvious smear and purposeful twisting of what Bernie said, seriously. The conversation was nothing like what your OP depicted.

[Cheese Sandwich]

70. + Bernie has traveled dozens of countries and met with many with high level international officials

He has far more foreign policy experience than either Bill Clinton or President Obama did when they were elected.

[Armstead]

25. Two points

The same characteristics are required for a good mayor as a good president. Scale may be different, and the opponents may be nastier at times, but tough is tough.

2) I don't think Clinton was very successful at taming Putin. He seems to have gotten steadily worse. So I'm not sure that's among her "qualifications."

[Beacool]

31. Well, he did spend his honeymoon in Russia.

[72DejaVu]

33. I've got no beef with that

although I've got to say, it sure doesn't sound like it was very romantic.

[tk2kewl]

34. do you know why?

dou you care?

[artislife]

41. No, they don't. nt

[72DejaVu]

42. Yes, I do

It makes it sound even less romantic.

[tk2kewl]

44. b/c yooomin brutha-hood is so unromantic

btw... you never replied to my replies about foreign policy realism above

[72DejaVu]

45. You are correct, I did not

I'm busy pondering whether or not Bernie is the kind of guy who buys his wife kitchen appliances for their anniversary.

[tk2kewl]

48. you keep pondering the things you find important...

we'll take care of the important stuff

[RobertEarl]

50. Good advice

Leave the driving to us. It is clear the clown bus is trying to run us over!

[72DejaVu]

51. Fair enough

Your side is on a tighter deadline.

[JonLeibowitz]

66. Wow, what a nice smear on a liberal U.S. Senator.

And all he had to do was....run for POTUS? Kudos.

[MaggieD]

63. Yeah, that was a good one

Cracked me up. Sadly, Bernie was serious.

[Eric J in MN]

74. The history is that after Bernie Sanders was elected mayor

...since he was an Independent, the Democrats on the City Council did everything they could to undermine him. They even fired the mayoral secretary.

Bernie Sanders fought back and got re-elected mayor 3 times.

He went on to his present position of having the highest job approval from his constituents of any US Senator.

[72DejaVu]

79. If he can handle the Burlington city council

Putin will be putty in his hands!

Nope, that doesn't sound silly at all.

[Eric J in MN]

91. Bernie Sanders started his answer by saying, 'I've taken on every special interest in this country.'

That would include during his US Senate career.

Sanders also said that negotiating with Putin would involve, "You let them know that we have the strongest military in the world. We have a great military and we are prepared to use that when
necessary."

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/hardball/2016-02-25

[Eric J in MN]

73. Transcript and video. Don't trust Politico writer. Judge for yourself.

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:18 AM - Edit history (1)

MATTHEWS: How do we – you as the president convince potential adversaries
and current ones that we`re not a country and you`re not a person to be
messed with? How do you establish that – remember, Kennedy got in trouble
because of the Bay of Pigs then came the Cuban missile crisis. Once you
look weak, then they come at you.

SANDERS: Well –

MATTHEWS: How do you deal with that?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, I don`t know that I accept your basic
assumptions here. Obviously, anyone who knows my political history, I`ve
taken on every special interest in this country. I am fairly tough guy.
When I was mayor of Burlington, I take on everybody.

MATTHEWS: Right.

SANDERS: I am prepared to take on Putin and everybody else. But let`s –

MATTHEWS: How do you let them know that?

SANDERS: You let them know that we have the strongest military in the
world. We have a great military and we are prepared to use that when
necessary.

But let me also say, that I think the kind of regime change the United
States has brought forth over many, many years has been counterproductive,
all right? It`s not the war in Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein,
that was a terrible mistake, leading to where we are today.

You go way back and you talk about the overthrowing of Mossadegh (democratically elected leader of Iran overthrown by CIA in 1953).

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/hardball/2016-02-25

Video of the interview:

[NCTraveler]

83. Nope, you logged on to du.

[DrDan]

84. I was surprised he took the approach of "pointing out the window" to gain support from

congressional opposition.

"Look at all those young folk" has not worked in the past afaik. But then again, I guess no one has tried it.

[Eric J in MN]

92. The precedent is Congress passing the 1964 Civil Rights Act because the people demanded it. NT

NT

[DrDan]

93. congress in 1964 and congress in 2016 are two very differnt things imo

[beedle]

88. So?

What is he supposed to do? Lie and make up some dramatic story about meeting with Putin after landing in Moscow and having to dodge multiple assassination attempts on the way to the meeting?

Bernie doesn't have a lot, maybe no, foreign policy experience; Clinton does, all of it pretty much exposing her as mediocre to incompetent in that area ... Bernie could hardly be worst, and at least he isn't going to be taking advice from a war criminal!

[MoonRiver]

89. Wow

[Eric J in MN]

94. The Politico writer took half-a-sentence out-of-context for spin.

Here is the transcript:

MATTHEWS: How do we – you as the president convince potential adversaries
and current ones that we`re not a country and you`re not a person to be
messed with? How do you establish that – remember, Kennedy got in trouble
because of the Bay of Pigs then came the Cuban missile crisis. Once you
look weak, then they come at you.

SANDERS: Well –

MATTHEWS: How do you deal with that?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, I don`t know that I accept your basic
assumptions here. Obviously, anyone who knows my political history, I`ve
taken on every special interest in this country. I am fairly tough guy.
When I was mayor of Burlington, I take on everybody.

MATTHEWS: Right.

SANDERS: I am prepared to take on Putin and everybody else. But let`s –

MATTHEWS: How do you let them know that?

SANDERS: You let them know that we have the strongest military in the
world. We have a great military and we are prepared to use that when
necessary.

But let me also say, that I think the kind of regime change the United
States has brought forth over many, many years has been counterproductive,
all right? It`s not the war in Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein,
that was a terrible mistake, leading to where we are today.

You go way back and you talk about the overthrowing of Mossadegh.

[mgmaggiemg]

96. wow

that is some delusional thinking on Bernie's part....head in sand...things are very difficult right now...between russia and us...not a good question to blithely blow off...