2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHomepage of Detroit Free Press: "Hillary Clinton hits Bernie Sanders on auto rescue vote in Flint…"
This is on their home page
http://www.freep.com/
FLINT With Michigan issues consuming much of the back and forth in a spirited debate Sunday night between the Democratic presidential candidates, Hillary Clinton surprised rival Bernie Sanders by accusing him of failing to support the 2009 auto rescue
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think
(11,641 posts)http://www.freep.com/story/news/2016/03/06/clinton-hits-sanders-auto-rescue-vote-flint-debate/81422798/
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Hillary got it right every time.
Bernie is toast.
think
(11,641 posts)And the American people were left to suffer. Iceland prosecuted their corrupt bankers. That's getting it right. That's what Bernie wanted.
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-09-12/iceland-prosecutor-investigates-convicts-bankers-for-financial-crimes
Instead Hillary chose to bail out the crooks and left the American people to lose out. Now these too big to fail corrupt banks are even larger and more powerful.
Bernie made the right call. He's not in the pocket of corrupt banks and corporations like Hillary.
putitinD
(1,551 posts)oasis
(49,408 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)putitinD
(1,551 posts)"facts" anymore. They used to be a fairly liberal news source. Now they lean pretty far right.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...no matter how much Sanders folks here fudge the issue.
Do yourself a favor and read what actually happened.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)Hillary Clinton Said Outsourcing Benefited America After She Criticized Bush Officials For Saying The Same Thing
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/hillary-clinton-said-outsourcing-benefited-america-after-she-criticized-bush
Just out of curiosity, do you work (or compensated) for either candidates or a super PAC?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Just out of curiosity, do you work (or compensated) for either candidates or a super PAC?
And how many other DUers have you asked that question about? And how many of them are Bernie supporters?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)He voted no when it was rolled into a HUGE Wall Street giveaway. As he should have.
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/706655455930621952
Loudestlib
(980 posts)Are you going to answer the question?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I await your apology.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)You're a TV pundit. It was a legitimate question. n/t
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)It was not a legitimate question. And only classy people apologize when they have been unnecessarily insulting.
As I said, I am not surprised.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)oasis
(49,408 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)Are you hurt?
Are you devastated?
Are you now going to cry yourself to sleep every night?
LOL!
To be called "not classy" by a guy who insists on posting Hillary-propaganda links from that slime David Brock as if they are a legitimate "news source" should be considered a compliment.
He calls Bernie a snake-oil salesman and refers to his supporters as Bernie-Bros. I think I'm in good company
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)think
(11,641 posts)It's right there in the article you posted.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)dchill
(38,532 posts)Agony
(2,605 posts)Clinton twisted a Sanders vote on the Wall Street bailout package to claim he was against the auto bailout.
"So Clintons claim that her Jan. 15, 2009, vote was to save the auto industry is to be charitable quite a stretch."
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/factchecking-the-seventh-democratic-debate/
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)The auto industry was decimated way before NAFTA,and it was decimated by Americans choosing non union made foreign cars. We were there,we saw what really happened.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Hillary was very misleading.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...a fact MI voters are well aware of. Many of the jobs "saved" by the bailout have since gone, or are going, to Mexico, thanks to NAFTA.
Case in point:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/01/05/obama-visits-wayne/21290221/
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2015/07/09/ford-focus-uaw-contract-mexico/29918345/
Just for fun, both the same source as your OP.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Ford didn't take a penny of bailout money.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...before the collapse. So they had cash on hand.
But, as I explained to Mr. Leser earlier, the damage had already been done (and continues to be done) to the MI economy by NAFTA. Many of the jobs "saved" by the bailout have already shipped off to Mexico.
And I am 100% certain Sanders knew his vote wasn't necessary for the bailout to pass, allowing him to cast his vote in protest. You would think that Mr. Leser would also be aware of that detail of DC politics.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Why waste time when you got stuff to say?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Dude, I live here. I grew up here. I have many, many family members who watched their jobs go to Mexico well before 2009. In fact, I had ZERO family members left in the auto industry before 2009 due to forced early retirement and plant closures. Divide that by the bailout.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Or is it just about shallow headlines?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)about to give it.
Bernie threw the auto-industry under the bus to satisfy his single-mindedness against his white whale.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)I'd never heard of you before. Once you throw your support behind a candidate, can you still be considered a pundit or do you act as more of a strategist for the campaign?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Michiganders are about to give it.
Bernie threw the auto-industry under the bus to satisfy his single-mindedness against his white whale.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Why did you just blow off my question? Not just that, but what's a guy with TV cred doing here on a website talking trash at 2am? You're THAT devoted to HRC 2016?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)disagreement aren't doing it to be polite.
And you again proved that.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)You're just dodging my question and that's fine, but please don't say I was being impolite. You're a public figure who makes television appearances and weighs in offering his opinions and strategies on the "horse race". I want to know where the line is between pundit and campaign strategist.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)without passage of the TARP bill package.
All you can *truthfully* say is, that would have been no auto bailout that was passed as part of the TARP package.
If that had failed, the auto bailout would likely have been re-introduced elsewhere as an independent bill.
This is simply another distortion by Hillary & co. about who voted for or against packages of legislation because of their elements.
It is OK to have been against the TARP provisions. Too bad the auto bailout was part of the same package, so that Hillary and her shills could misrepresent the vote.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So, it doesn't matter to people actually living in Detroit, they know who caused the auto industry to collapse, no matter what witty lines Hillary spews.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)with the Weathervane candidate.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Just like Walmart.
And just as corporate conservative.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So the banks could come in and realign where people live in Detroit.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought in former President Bill Clinton to the Wealth Management team. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what are a few hundred million in speaking fees compared to a $16 trillion bailout among friends?
It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:
President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool
SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html
One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.
Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.
The fact the nation's "news media" don't should also be of great concern.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Belongs as a separate OP, as far as I'm concerned.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)One example:
Hillary Helped UBSand Then the Bank Funneled Millions to the Clintons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511200048
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)riversedge
(70,301 posts)come across good at all. Not presidential with his gestures, head shaking and constant finger wagging--getting into Hillary's personal space!!
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-flint-michigan-2016-highlights-analysis/
.....If Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders was looking for a debate performance Sunday night that would change the trajectory of his Democratic nomination fight with front-runner Hillary Clinton, he didn't get one.
The Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate appeared visibly angry and on edge at points during the candidates' seventh time on the debate stage together, this time in Flint, Mich., hosted by CNN. And while he landed a few blows on Clinton over her ties to Wall Street and the issue of trade, he stumbled responding to Clinton's attack on his opposition to the auto bailout and at one point defended gun manufacturers.
Despite Sanders's victory Sunday night in the Maine caucuses, Clinton still has a significant delegate lead that will be difficult for him to overcome. He needed a big moment Sunday night to improve his prospects, and the debate didn't give him one............... ........................
Armstead
(47,803 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Same ones that paid $25 an hour in the USA.
Those corporations.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)betsuni
(25,618 posts)"... honestly I didn't know this until a week ago that in 1960, it turns out, Detroit was one of the wealthiest cities in America. Flint, Michigan, which today is mired in terrible poverty, was an extremely prosperous city."
WHAT. How does he not know this? What the hell. Rapidly losing all respect.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Texas school books don't mention it.
One big reason is that the monied class doesn't like Americans to know how important unions are for creating the middle class.
How many times does Detroit get mentioned for anything other than urban decay, crime, and Blacks?
I keep track of such things. I live and work in Detroit.
betsuni
(25,618 posts)Common knowledge, American history. Duh.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)What common knowledge do you possess on that? Please, don't GOOGLE, I want to know what you know.
betsuni
(25,618 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sen. Bernie Sanders, one of the better informed presidential candidates in my memory, admitted he did not know the full story of Detroit.
My point is that most people don't know as much as you, thanks to a corporate owned news media and an underfunded and mismanaged public school system.
I congratulate you on your memory.
betsuni
(25,618 posts)Best thing about being old! And documentaries like Michael Moore's "Roger & Me" have been around for decades. But if you're in love, then tra la la la la.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Bernie must not get out much.
ETA: If you want to learn more about Detroit and the bankruptcy from a non-corporate, socialist perspective:
https://www.wsws.org/topics/newsCategory/detr/
noamnety
(20,234 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)We have a failing media and a lying candidate in Hillary. Unfortunately, some of her supporters take her lies and run with them. This country is screwed when so many in both sides of the aisle are working against the interests of most Americans. The lying only serves to confuse which side everyone is on.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)That's going to stick.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He was FOR saving the auto industry.
He was simply trying to separate it from the Bail Out of Crooked Banks and Wall St. Sharks.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)If that bill failed, then no bailout and the auto industry goes down the tubes.
think
(11,641 posts)got it....