2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie, Like Jesus, Brings Good News to the Poor
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-mevorach/bernie-like-jesus-brings-_b_9445546.htmlIn an age that has seen the rich grow absurdly, unprecedentedly rich and the poor decline into abject, debilitating poverty, Sanders is the only major presidential candidate willing to sufficiently problematize the ever-widening wealth gap in our nation and world, and to offer revolutionary solutions to restore a level of economic equality consistent with a free society. As president, he would lead efforts to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, rebalancing our society and restoring our middle class.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)He is so Christ-like
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The poor? Screw them, do they vote?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It's your sneering that reads it as Bernie=Jesus, ha ha ha. A reaction that's only possible from relative privilege.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)"Bernie, Like Jesus, Brings Good News to the Poor"
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)and since Jesus isn't god and possibly not even a historical figure, but a story that conveys a set of teachings (in which the poor figure prominently), there's nothing absurd about wanting to apply those teachings. Instant sneering at the thought, in this case, is going to come from people who don't particularly care about the poor. And in this particular context of DU, it's going to be from those who see themselves as having a mission of attacking everything that isn't helping the team they've chosen. This shouldn't be a team sport. Do you have anything to say about the poor, who have suffered so much at the hands of bipartisan Republican - New Democrat policy?
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)That's the title of the OP. Guess you kinda missed that. It's not anyone sneering. That's exactly what it says.
Please tell us again who is equating.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Something tells me you probably don't think Jesus is God. I certainly don't. The New Testament story may not even refer to a real historical figure.
So we're talking about a set of teachings as they relate to the poor. Do you think no one should even try to take those teachings seriously? Even if they, too, are also not God? Not perfect? An instantaneous sneer at it will proabably come from those who don't think or care too much about the poor.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)Despite the spin, there was no question. It was a statement. The OP equated Bernie with Jesus in the title. Fictional, God, or just a man, Bernie is no Jesus. He's just a politician doing whatever is necessary to get elected, and I don't think an internet warrior has the credentials to judge who does, and does not care for the poor. End of story.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus reads from the scroll of the Prophet Isaiah: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lords favor (Luke 4:18-19, NRSV). Today these words are fulfilled in your hearing, he boldly proclaims (Luke 4:21). The year of the Lords favor which Jesus announces is the Jubilee Year described in the Book of Leviticus. God commands Israel to observe a Jubilee Year, a sabbath of Sabbaths, every 49th year: this is a year in which slaves are freed, debts are forgiven, farm land and animals are allowed to rest, and, most importantly, land is redistributed. This is a year of social, economic, and environmental justice. Jesus message is radical in the true sense, in that it expresses the root values of liberation and equality at the heart of Judaism, values which resonate with the Israelites core identity as a community of slaves liberated by God from the tyranny of Pharaoh.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-mevorach/bernie-like-jesus-brings-_b_9445546.html
Politician he may be, but Bernie Sanders (along with Pope Francis, may I add) is preaching the age-old and wise lessons of compassion, sharing and healing. If you are religious and you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that means something. If you are not religious but you believe that human social values require us to respect and value all human lives including those of the poor, then that means something too.
And what it means is that, although Bernie may be a politician intent on winning the presidency, he is unique as a politician in our time and country in terms of his awareness of the unfulfilled need in our society to care for the poor, for the suffering, for the sick, and to strive toward equality and respect for each person in our society.
Interestingly, Jesus drew large crowds but was followed by hypocrites and others who believed that he was a phony who believed that he did not follow or understand the Jewish law, who thought he was a troublemaker, an usurper of the legitimately powerful.
We are told that it was these doubters, these opponents of Jesus' wonderful human compassion who conspired to try him, to hand him over to the Romans who ended his life, his teaching and his good works.
Now if we continue our analogy between Bernie and Jesus (and I am not claiming that Bernie is equal to Jesus but rather that his values and his teaching are similar to those of Jesus -- I'm unaware of Bernie healing any sick people although his universal healthcare plan would heal a lot of people who can't afford medical care now), who would it be who would betray him?
Perhaps among the betrayers would be those who like to ridicule his sincere and humble compassion for those who suffer. It is in that compassion that Bernie is like Jesus. He is not the only person who shares that compassion, but he appears to be one of them.
And I think that he deserves a great deal of respect for that compassion.
I do not perceive that degree of compassion in any other candidate for the presidency in this election, not even in those who claim to have deep Christian faith. Of course, faith is a very personal matter and I can't claim the capacity to judge the faith of any person. But I can say that Bernie's Christian (or Jewish) compassion (although he does not profess to be religious and certainly not to be Christian) as it is revealed in his stances on the issues appears to me to be much clearer and more greater than the compassion of any other candidate.
In other words.... To some people, Bernie = Jesus.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)agrees with and follows Jesus' teachings.
No other candidate is even in the competition on this.
Jesus did not say, "Follow me" as long as it is possible to fit me in after you bomb Ghaddafi and invade Iraq and set things straight in Afghanistan." He said, "Leave everything you have, everything you think you need or want to do and follow me."
Today he would say, "First give to the poor and needy, heal the sick and care for the elderly and the very young, and then you can do what you want."
With the exception of Bernie, all the candidates are making excuses as to why we can't heal the sick -- that is, have universal healthcare and health insurance; feed the poor -- that is, fully fund food stamps; end the wars -- that is work with others to make peace; have a fair tax system that requires the rich to pay a fair share of the costs of our society, the society in which they thrive financially -- read Jesus' message to the tax collectors in the corrupt society in which taxation was especially corrupt at his time. On issue after issue, Bernie's message of hope, and as Obama put it, "Yes we can," is more like Jesus' message than the message of any other candidate.
Sign me,
Raised on the Bible.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)Christian candidate is Bernie. How soon, many forget that Jesus, if he existed, was a practicing Jew, and that the sect was regarded then as being a sect of Judaism. What if G-d is not a punitive god, but a G-d of infinite undeserved love for each and everyone of us? From stardust we came, and to stardust we shall surely return. Bernie is the best damn Christian out there.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)Bernie does show the most Christian values of any candidate running. Bernie is truly a good and decent man. And that is why sometimes even though DU is just a discussion board, I get really upset about some of the stuff people say about Bernie. He isn't doing this to get rich or famous...not at his age.
Note: my friend probably got hung up on me saying that a Jew could be a better Christian than a Christian...somehow I can grasp that idea.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)I think you hit the nail on the head in explaining what the OP was trying to convey regarding the poor, and Bernie as their bringer of hope.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)and I don't particularly care, since it's a Pavlovian response anyway.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)response is rude and not needed.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)supporter but Bernie, in one of his ads, asks "what does it mean to be moral?" and he approaches it as a question of integrity and doing the right thing to make us better people. I am moved to tears by the simplicity of his message.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)He's the only one you listen to who addresses poverty.
Comparing him to the mythical Jesus is so hyperbolic that it is laughable.
Response to NuclearDem (Reply #19)
whathehell This message was self-deleted by its author.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)for doing that.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... most of these folks thought Warren was the next Messiah heading into 2015.
Bernie was their alternate choice back then.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)msongs
(67,403 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)YES
riversedge
(70,204 posts)dchill
(38,481 posts)Just a regular, democratic one.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Good post!
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Yeah!
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Of The Walking Dead.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Thanks for bringing up the absolute ridiculousness of it.
Bernie the saviour....don't forget he dabbled as a carpenter too, that's like the maraschino cherry on the top
You may feel better if you delete the op and let this thread drop like a lead balloon.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
riversedge
(70,204 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)or
or
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)sheshe2
(83,751 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Drop everything and give it all to the cause. (Assuming there was even such a man fitting the story. But if there was, that is what he was: a man, nothing more or less.)
Not that Sanders has asked for very much. I've been glad to give my $200 so far secure in the conviction that a record number of others are doing the same. Don't you wish Clinton could ever match that enthusiasm? Nah, who cares - banksters taking care of it!
Sanders is speaking to the time and the issues of the time. That is reality. If there was a fair playing field, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)To my knowledge Jesus never called for anyone to give him money. What he said a few times was to give to the poor. Of course he didn't have a foundation either, but the difference between Bernie and the Clintons is that they use their foundation to soak the rich and redistribute to the poor, imperfectly perhaps but that's what Foundations are chartered to do. Bernie won't even share with other Dems let alone the poor.
p.s. the part about selling all and redistributing to the poor (not to the disciples incidentally) comes up in Acts, but it isn't Jesus speaking.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Basically, no one should run for president who isn't for the status quo as is and gets most of their money from corporations and the rich, and mostly through indirect means.
After all, it really IS a corrupt system, so running in it at all is sheer hypocrisy! Just let the rich run it in peace.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Who do you think provided places for Jesus to sleep?
Bernie is not rich. He does not charge $250,000 and up for a speech.
Bernie is about compassion for the poor, for students who find themselves swimming in debt, for those who cannot afford health insurance or healthcare, for those who earn subsistence wages, for those who find themselves in prison for minor offenses, for women and men who need to be with their newborn babies, and on and on.
Bernie's entire campaign is about compassion for the poor in our society.
Hillary -- not the worst, but not the best either in this regard.
Bernie's emphasis is very much like that of Jesus.
And Jesus did not practice his profession of carpenter once he began preaching. He was fed by his followers and people who were around him. How else did he find a way to eat and take care of himself? All kinds of people gave him money, that's how.
Read the New Testament. He encouraged people to give and praised the widow for giving her mite to the temple.
Yet another analogy: Bernie wants to break up the big banks into smaller, less risky units. Jesus threw the money lenders out of the temple.
The similarities are numerous.
Laser102
(816 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Jesus would have released his tax returns early and they'd be be complete.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,733 posts)Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Didn't Jesus say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's?
Jesus would have released his tax returns early and they'd be be complete.
Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It will be justice long overdue if Bernie can get the moneyed interests out of government and bring this country back to its democratic, egalitarian roots.
Some may think the people don't deserve basic security, peace, and freedom. Hopefully, they are in the minority.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)For the fellas at the pub
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,256 posts)Or even just a rational discussion on DU.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Bernie's grabbing for it with both hands, by any means necessary.
senz
(11,945 posts)and it is your candidate, and you know it. You know it.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Or Mary? (Any of the Marys?)
You're a True Believer. Fine. Bless you.
No rational person, though, would deny that ANYONE who runs for President has to have a pretty big ego. That includes Hillary.
And it includes Bernie Sanders, too. Deal.
senz
(11,945 posts)and some of Jesus' teachings. Why is that such a big deal? Read the OP or the HP article from which it is excerpted. It's really not the least bit extreme.
No one is claiming that Bernie is Jesus or is like Jesus. No one is claiming that Bernie shares many of Jesus' qualities. No one is suggesting that Bernie is in any way divine.
Just that some of his aims and goals overlap with some of Jesus' aims and goals (and more accurately with passages from the Book of Isaiah).
It's you and your scoffing, laughing crowd that can't understand a very straightforward OP.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Betnie, Like Jesus...
Thete you have it.
senz
(11,945 posts)Titles don't mean that much. It's the content that gives a written piece its meaning.
okasha
(11,573 posts)They're meant to draw you in and get you reading. A clunky one will kill your piece.
Yep, I eat bread. But only an idiot would take that to mean that I am a Messianic figure. The essay goes on to embellish and elaborate on the notion that Bernie is such a figure.
And that's plain silly.
senz
(11,945 posts)It's always wise to look beyond the headline of an article because the person who wrote the headline may not have understood the author's intent -- or they may just be playing for excitement and clicks.
Nah, no one's going to place Bernie Sanders on the same level as saints and messiahs.
But he's just what the country needs at this time.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)Sorry, I tend to reject that kind of conflation of religion and politics. It's dangerous.
The President who arguably did the most for the poor and oppressed in the 20th. century was the deeply immoral LBJ.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)philosophical from the point of view of rationalism.
But I know it can be used in the religious context as well. John Locke, Voltaire and rousseu are some Age of Reason thinkers...
senz
(11,945 posts)You write an OP that is sensitive, sincere, and hopeful, and then bullies descend on your thread and trash it with jeering ridicule and cynicism, showing themselves to be pathetically hollow and soulless.
They, dishonest to the core, call Bernie supporters "Bro" and accuse us of bullying, but they are the bullies. They are everything they accuse us of.
Earlier, when things were going well for their candidate and poorly for ours, they couldn't even find it within themselves to be gracious; all they could find was the bully's coarse urge to boast and rub our noses in it.
They could not be that ugly if they weren't on some level utterly miserable. I wish I could feel sorry for them, but I can't.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I wonder where the rest of your group is?
Response to Sheepshank (Reply #36)
rbrnmw This message was self-deleted by its author.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)There's a remedy, though.
Response to grasswire (Reply #66)
senz This message was self-deleted by its author.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Hillz supporters SO mean and hurted you feelings
But now seriously, if you equate a politician with Jesus, particularly on a liberal board, you are going to get laughed at. It is a rule of nature. So either grow some skin or choose another line of argument.
BTW, things are STILL going well for our candidate because math
senz
(11,945 posts)Like many liberals, I like to consider all people as equal, but exposure to miserable sickos is driving home the correct stance, which is: all people deserve equal rights and opportunities. Period.
The article does not attempt to compare Bernie to Jesus; it merely points out similar intent in one area of life, but for some reason, Hill supporters are experiencing an attack frenzy all over GD-P, which makes it appear that they're feeling insecure about their chances of forcing this disastrous thing through to the nomination (and then watching it fail and flail in the GE, giving us a Republican president unless some 3rd party opportunist leaps into the mix).
Your taunting response surprised me, so I glanced through your journal. It looks like you're habitually sarcastic -- so, being liberal and all, I think I'll just hope you get over whatever painful experiences made you so angry and aggressive. Not sure yet whether to put you on ignore; guess it depends on how annoying you are.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)So it ABSOLUTELY DOES compare the two. It says so in the title. This is basic reading comprehension
As I said before, when you compare a political candidate to Jesus, or defend someone who does, you are probably setting yourself up for some serious ridicule.
Imma ignore your ad hominem attack, because boring
senz
(11,945 posts)I already addressed that astonishing bit of ignorance here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511640743#post74
Jesus.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)about the similarities between Jesus and Bernie Sanders. I can read. Baby.
Me, personally, I get REALLY suspicious when religion and politics are conflated. It always goes badly wrong. The framers of the constitution agreed. All that separation of church and state..... And it is even weirder to see it here, on a liberal board, where people usually have a healthy suspicion of that kind of thing. That is the truly astonishing bit.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Just creepy.
Avalon Sparks
(2,565 posts)The paybacks the Clintons owe for accepting 150 million dollars in bribe money (speaking fees) .
Some investors have waited years for the payoff.
Once they are both back in power, the ROI will pay off in spades.
Stuff like that makes my skin crawl.
senz
(11,945 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... when all of the Bernie Supporters are Raptured into heaven, and I'm left behind.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Somehow I don't think I'm going to ride that Great Hoover To The Sky, either.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... they'll leave behind some good shit for us to enjoy when they're gone.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)revmclaren
(2,520 posts)They always failed in the end. By the way, which one is Pinky?
Sorry, but when you bring religion into politics, you have become a bat-shit zealot.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)revmclaren
(2,520 posts)And putting Sanders teamed up with him is a disturbing image for all of us Pagans, GLBT, etc who think the Pope and his beliefs are anti progressive!
Just saying!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The pope has focused on issues that I don't think say anything about religion. Bernie, too.
But I respect your opinion.
revmclaren
(2,520 posts)I left Organized religion 45 years ago. Too many hypocrites and people willing to TOLERATE people like me,but not accept us.
I wont settle for less than total acceptance!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I left organized religion, too, after working for a famous conservative who began a non-profit that was meant to help people who have no voice but turned out to be simply a power play.
revmclaren
(2,520 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Ask anyone at the pub!
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Publicans?
Sancho
(9,067 posts)Not sure how much that can of tuna cost, but I hope there's a video on Youtube!
riversedge
(70,204 posts)nibble.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)Everyone gets 4 years tuition and 4 boxes of noodles!
polly7
(20,582 posts)There are very many beautiful and inspirational messages in the bible. For those who believe, or even those who don't - caring for those with the least among us is the greatest thing we can do as human beings. There is no other way to accomplish this than to demand fairness from those who have most - so much of it gotten at the expense of others who are just fighting to survive. I struggle with religion, but this is just basic human decency, three words those who control the lives of so many millions of others have wiped from their vocabulary.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)betsuni
(25,477 posts)It must be true !!
synergie
(1,901 posts)And seriously, can you stop with the shoving of your religion down everyone's throat. We are all a bit tired of this hear our "good news" that you must accept and convert, else we shall abuse and rape you and your culture. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself, proselytaztion of thus nature is deeply offensive.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)I guess those Goldman Sacks speeches clouds their views
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)Is Bernie infallible?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)I'm just trying to understand the level of animosity.
okasha
(11,573 posts)you're the member who thought millions of Christians would --er, flock--to Bernie because they would take a finch alighting on his podium to be a Sign from God.
The truth is that the little fella seemed interested in the water bottle. He was athirst, and Bernie gave him not to drink.
Response to GeorgiaPeanuts (Original post)
R B Garr This message was self-deleted by its author.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)For those who are Christians, Jesus is not a politician in any way. The comparison fails on theological ground. For those who are not Christian, the comparison fails because most of those don't acknowledge any supernatural nature in whoever the historical Jesus might have been.
Many people champion the end of poverty as a goal. That doesn't not call for comparisons with a supposed deity.
The comparison is a weak one, really, akin con comparing candidates one doesn't like to some horrible historical figure.
The comparison is also a transparent one, in that people know that it is not in any way a valid comparison.
The comparison does not help the candidate being compared to Jesus, either.
The comparison is a failure, all around, and should simply not be made.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)and walk humbly with their God. And I believe seeking peace is in their somewhere. I find that deeply spiritual impulse in Bernie, too. Isn't he setting a good example for people of all faiths?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)now, is he? I doubt he would ever do such a thing. People should follow his lead.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)interpretations. Since I am not religious, I take what he is saying deeply moral and inspiring. Bernie himself asks what it means to be moral in one of his ads. His appeal is that we can be better...nothing wrong there...
senz
(11,945 posts)could be regarded as implicitly critical and therefore offensive, which might explain the ridicule.
I love your reasonable response to the OP.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for a politician trying to draw Far Right voters away from Cruz. Which must be why a Bernie-Jesus comparison is being made in far more places than this.
For a true believer in his own crusade like Sanders, this race is still his to snatch from defeat, and I feel quite sure Sanders is far from objecting to any tactic that might advance him.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)in the primaries.
The question is, will he come back from the politically dead three days after Hillary wins the nomination?
"He is not here. He has risen and returned to his back bench in the Senate where his political life is sustained by glomming onto the Ds and introducing legislation to rename post offices."
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)But in such a good way
okasha
(11,573 posts)has vigorously and successfully resisted being crucified by the Republicans for the last 25 years.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I badly needed a good laugh and you gave it to me. In the words of Jesus, or maybe Bernie: Bless you.
BTW, is "problematize" a word?
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)First he was the Holy Prophet - http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280142491
and now he's compared to the fictional character of Jesus?
I'd like to think this isn't the mind set of the (hopefully) vast majority of Bernie supporters. Really though, some of these things are getting awfully close to cultlike worship more than just supporting a great candidate.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)Like Ghandi, I am impressed by the christ, but not by the christians.
The post was about the values, not the miracles.
Sad how those with eyes are so blind
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)for the semantically impaired...I am not Ghandi
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)unlike the money hungry,power hungry Clinton.
So laugh it up assholes,we see what your made off.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)"Oh Lord won'tcha buy me a night on the town"
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I read it aloud to the guys in the pub and they all thought it was quite excellent!