A clueless Vatican chancellor didn't mean to step into US politics and

[pnwmom]

still doesn't understand why inviting Bernie to this small, dry academic gathering would be a problem.

OTOH, the British President of the Academy understands the politics much better and this is why she feels used.

http://ncronline.org/news/politics/bernie-sanders-set-attend-vatican-conference-john-paul-ii-encyclical

The chancellor told CNN that Sanders' attendance "does not signify any support for the campaign," and that the academy sought to establish a dialogue between North and South America by inviting a U.S. politician.

"I don't know what is the problem," he told NCR. "We have two presidents from Latin America, and we don't have a problem. And we have a problem because we invited one candidate to the White House of your country? It's a little impossible to understand."

SNIP

At least one conference attendee who spoke on background said they anticipated a "generic academic conference" but are now "queasy" how Sanders' presence, and the political overtones accompanying him, might distort a more academic reflection on the interrelationships between markets and morality.

"It's just tricky to navigate those issues, and I don't know that a politician -- any politician, not Sanders in particular -- is well equipped to navigate them in a subtle and nuanced way," the attendee said.

Sanchez told NCR that "the real consideration here is not the question of the political effect," but rather to follow the task of the academy, to give deep consideration of social and political realities in light of the magisterium of the pope.

[beam me up scottie]

1. Oh please, Archer is the clueless one, she lied and was caught:

Papal official denies report Sanders invited himself to Vatican

VATICAN CITY/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders was invited to speak at an April 15 Vatican event by the Vatican, a senior papal official said on Friday, denying a report that Sanders had invited himself.

"I deny that. It was not that way," Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo told Reuters in a telephone interview while he was traveling in New York. Sorondo, a close aide to Pope Francis, is chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the event.

He said it was his idea to invite Sanders.

A Bloomberg report quoted Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, as saying that Sanders had broken with protocol by failing to contact her office first.

"This is not true and she knows it. I invited him with her consensus," said Sorondo, who is senior to Archer.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senior-papal-official-untrue-sanders-invited-himself-vatican-173414032.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

[DisgustipatedinCA]

2. He's going to the Vatican. Lots of people lied about this. They're not going to the Vatican.

This one is done; the only thing that remains to be seen is how ridiculous some Clintonistas want to continue to look.

[pnwmom]

3. Where did anyone say he wasn't going to the Vatican? The dispute was in how the invitation

came about, and to what extent he lobbied for it -- and what the invitation signifies.

It doesn't signify any endorsement of Bernie or his policies, despite how much Bernie wants to piggyback onto the Pope's popularity.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. He will be going to the Vatican. Many people lied about him. They will not be going to the Vatican.

There's nothing else left to this story, unless you'd care to include the tales of desperate liars who tried very hard to make this into something else.

So by all means, continue with your Vatican-related post. It's doing wonders for you.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

51. Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

you seem shallow

[noiretextatique]

62. Indeed. They cannot defend Bill's bullshit

So they harp on this.

[DesertRat]

4. A generic academic conference

Doesn't sound like he's meeting with Pope Francis.

[pnwmom]

7. The Pope will not be attending the conference. n/t

[itsrobert]

42. Didn''t Bernie say on the View that the Pope invited him

and he was looking forward to meeting the Pope?

Reminds me of those phony radio promotions where the Host says he's going to giveaway a car and he ends up giving the sucker prize winner a hot wheel.

[DrDan]

50. he absolutely said he will be meeting with the Pope

[Bobbie Jo]

25. Sure made it sound like he was.

That's the thing that people are questioning here.

Nobody is questioning this piece of paper, yet they put it out there as some kind of AHA! moment.

Q: "You're meeting with the Pope?"

Bernie: "Yep."

[Fumesucker]

5. Please proceed, poster

[sadoldgirl]

6. If anyone calls the Vatican clueless about politics

in the world, especially a close advisor to the Pope,

then they are much much more than just clueless.

[pnwmom]

10. This chancellor said "it is a little impossible to understand." He is recognizing his cluelessness.

And previously, the top Vatican diplomat, assigned to D.C., was forced into early retirement because of a similarly clueless act when he arranged for the Pope to meet with Kim Davis.

Not every action the Vatican takes is smart or even to its benefit. They did not mean to turn this dry academic conference into a political football in the US.

[TheFarS1de]

16. No.

He just knows how to handle bullshit when it is served up . That's why the Pope has him as an advisor . Maybe Hillary can ask for some recommendations as her current lot are worthless and 10 years out of date .

[reformist2]

8. OMG. Let it go. Of course there's a political component to it. It's what politicians do!

[RazBerryBeret]

11. if the subject matter

is Morality, Wealth and Poverty; as I've read.... who would be more qualified to speak? this is a great opportunity for Sanders to have an international voice; a great opportunity for all of us.

[azurnoir]

12. Hillary didn't get invited I take it

[pnwmom]

14. She didn't lobby for an invitation, as the President of the Academy says Bernie did. n/t

[TheFarS1de]

18. That is a lie .

[pnwmom]

19. She says that is the truth, and she is the organizer of the conference. n/t

[TheFarS1de]

20. And her boss states otherwise .

It is a lie .

[pnwmom]

21. I believe her because that is much more in keeping with the Church's general policy NEVER

to get involved in local politics -- even Italian politics, much less U.S. politics.

[TheFarS1de]

24. You believe what is convenient .

It is still a steaming pile of bullshit . A lie if you will .

[pnwmom]

33. There is no reason to think they've made a special exception in this case -- especially in view

of the President's comments, and the further statement from the press office. He was not invited by the Pope. The Pope won't even be there.

[TheFarS1de]

36. You assert your speculation is fact .

...and it is still a lie no matter how you reword / rehash it .

[riversedge]

52. @BernieSanders LIED again-said he would meet w/ Pope!! on the View!!

is this convenient?


Tweet

@BernieSanders LIED again-said he would meet w/ Pope!! on the View!!

… #p2 #ImwithHer

[TheFarS1de]

55. Oh look

the winds have changed again ... how unexpected . The topic is he asked to be invited ... I guess that is a dead loss so lets try a different tack . And you still have yet to prove that he will not meet the Pope when he will be at the meeting . I will await this concrete evidence of Nostradamus levels .

[riderinthestorm]

30. The church hasn't involved itself in politics? ??!!!

Really?? You're saying that with a straight face?



Their entire history has been one of meddling in politics every level.

Oh my god. ..

[pnwmom]

35. They might interfere behind the scenes but not publicly. Their public position is always neutral. n/

[riderinthestorm]

43. Archer and Sorondo's comments are the very definition of a private spat gone public nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. SNORT... In his Mexican tour

Pope Francisco gave a mass in both Spanish and Native languages in Tabasco, and that was not well received by either the Church hierarchy or the Mexican government.

You might remember during that same tour the Pope had something to say about Trump and the wall, from Ciudad Juarez, I guess that you were unaware, even though CNN carried it. The former I understand you would be unaware.

By the way, that spat you just saw is the internal going to the papers.

Next time warn me, replacing screens can be dangerous.

[pnwmom]

63. You might remember that a reporter questioned him about Trump -- he didn't insert himself into

the election -- and his response was to distance himself politically but to acknowledge that the concept of a wall wasn't Christian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. And you might want to interpret that as distancing

neither did I, or for that matter NPR this morning... several programs mentioned that as very political. A few carried the sound.

[Kalidurga]

60. I know right. Their whole existence is to push a political agenda.

[azurnoir]

76. Neither did Bernie he was invited

[pnwmom]

77. He asked for an invitation, according to the President of the Academy, and so they sent one. n/t

[azurnoir]

78. you should really try to keep up on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141408086

[pnwmom]

79. You should go to an original source.

http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/about/council.html

The President and the Chancellor were both directly appointed by the Pontiff, and the President is senior to the Chancellor.

http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/about/council.html

[HillareeeHillaraah]

13. Is he a guest speaker

Or an attendee? Everything I've read has said he's been invited to attend, not to give a speech.

Sanders' side fumbled the ball on this play, IMO

[pnwmom]

17. He is not listed on the website as a speaker or a participant. In an odd wording,

his name is included after the list of "participants" in a smaller group of "other participants."

[HillareeeHillaraah]

26. I'm at a loss as to why in the middle of the New York primary

He's leaving to go attend a conference. I just don't get the strategy of it all.

Go figure~

[DesertRat]

32. Italy is beautiful in the springtime. nt

[HillareeeHillaraah]

39. You win this thread.

[fighting-irish]

40. Hillarys going to Hong Kong!

[HillareeeHillaraah]

44. Yeah except she's not, her CFO is

But points for trying to start that rumor to take the spotlight off of Sanders

[DesertRat]

47. Actually, Hillary's not going, her campaign's CFO is going to Hong Kong

You can't believe everything you read on Daily Kos.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. You mean the CFO that came though Goldman Sachs?

[sadoldgirl]

29. Of course, you would say that, never miss

even no opportunity to slam Bernie.

He did the right thing, don't you worry.

[HillareeeHillaraah]

38. We're in the middle of a campaign

Posting on a site that's all about politics. And Sanders has just done something that defies political logic. Why wouldn't I write about that? I'm on the side that wants to continue to beat him. Commenting on politics and positions is what we're all doing here, isn't it?

And really, I'm not worried at all. Clinton will win NY decisively. I'm just curious as to why he's cutting time out of campaigning to attend (not speak) a conference in Rome.

You could call that a slam or you could call it valid political discourse.

[Autumn]

67. He want's to give all Hillary supporters a respite from his socialist presences in the country for

a little while. He knows how stressed they have been lately.

[Armstead]

15. Good Dawd...Can't you people just let this go? It makes you look petty.

If he goes, he'll be gone for a couple of days, maybe get a photo op ...and then it's back to the rough and tumble of campaigning.

Can't you give the guy a little credit that maybe he is actually someone who has CORE MORAL BELIEFS, and going to this this might be important to him personally?

Believe it or not it is possible to be a human being and a politician.

[Hoyt]

22. Maybe they felt Sanders should show a little more respect for South Americans who

need investment and jobs provided by things like NAFTA, TPP, etc. Lots of folks here miss this aspect of trade agreements.

[JesterCS]

28. At the expense of respect and jobs

That Americans need.

[Hoyt]

46. Another Sanders' Nationalist. America First and all that junk. I hope this conference

helps Sanders to relay the message to his supporters.

[Armstead]

53. I'd suggest you look at out history in Latin America...and Bernies positions over the years

Unless one is a big fan of Corporate Colonialism and Imperialism.....it's hard to fault Sanders committment to those pepole.

[azmom]

59. Please educate yourself.

NAFTA, however, did not lead to rising incomes and employment in Mexico, and did not decrease the flow of migrants. Instead, it became a source of pressure on Mexicans to migrate.

The treaty forced corn grown by Mexican farmers without subsidies to compete in Mexico’s own market with corn from huge U.S. producers, who had been subsidized by the U.S. Agricultural exports to Mexico more than doubled during the NAFTA years, from $4.6 to $9.8 billion annually. Corn imports rose from 2,014,000 to 10,330,000 tons from 1992 to 2008. Mexico imported 30,000 tons of pork in 1995, the year NAFTA took effect. By 2010, pork imports, almost all from the U.S., had grown over 25 times, to 811,000 tons. As a result, pork prices received by Mexican producers dropped 56%.8 - See more at:

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/10/11/globalization-and-nafta-caused-migration-from-mexico/#sthash.8UNCpSGD.dpuf

[Hoyt]

61. NAFTA has helped. Most telling is Mexico begged to be part of TPP because they know it's the only

wat out, unless those who hate Mexicans there getting better jobs and those that treat them like scabs here, prevail.

[azmom]

64. Your ignorance is showing.

[Hoyt]

66. Let me guess, you believe Americans first.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. You mean the NEO LIBERAL PRESIDENT of Mexico did

the Mexican people disagree.

And those better jobs and better economy are ghosts. Don't tell me I have no idea, I go to Mexico often.

But what about Mexico? Didn't Mexico at least benefit from the agreement? Well if we look at the past 20 years, it's not a pretty picture. The most basic measure of economic progress, especially for a developing country like Mexico, is the growth of income (or GDP) per person. Out of 20 Latin American countries (South and Central America plus Mexico), Mexico ranks 18, with growth of less than 1% annually since 1994. It is, of course, possible to argue that Mexico would have done even worse without NAFTA, but then the question would be, why?

From 1960-80 Mexico's GDP per capita nearly doubled. This amounted to huge increases in living standards for the vast majority of Mexicans. If the country had continued to grow at this rate, it would have European living standards today. This is what happened in South Korea, for example. But Mexico, like the rest of the region, began a long period of neoliberal policy changes that, beginning with its handling of the early 1980s debt crisis, got rid of industrial and development policies, gave a bigger role to de-regulated international trade and investment, and prioritized tighter fiscal and monetary policies (sometimes even in recessions). These policies put an end to the prior period of growth and development. The region as a whole grew just 6% per capita from 1980-2000; and Mexico grew by 16% – a far cry from the 99% of the previous 20 years.

For Mexico, NAFTA helped to consolidate the neo-liberal, anti-development economic policies that had already been implemented in the prior decade, enshrining them in an international treaty. It also tied Mexico even further to the US economy, which was especially unlucky in the two decades that followed: the Fed's interest rate increases in 1994, the US stock market bust (2000-2002) and recession (2001), and especially, the housing bubble collapse and Great Recession of 2008-9 had a bigger impact on Mexico than almost anywhere else in the region.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/04/nafta-20-years-mexico-regret

There is more than just the Guardian. And it has also been a disaster for the environment... and education.

[Hoyt]

71. I mean officials elected by the people. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a neo-liberal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I hate to point this out, but Pena Nieto, Gortari

even Portillo, were Neo Liberals, So was Fox and Calderon. Their policies were neo liberal and aimed to privatized everything they could. Pena Nieto is still at it. It is not me agreeing with them... it is a fact.

[azmom]

75. Elected by the people? LOL

The things you don't know about Mexico.

[angrychair]

23. This 'concern' is bullshit

There are more than one leader of a nation going to be in attendance. Evo Morales being a good example.
If you don't think the attendees don't each have their own agendas, one way or the other, than you are naive.
This article has an agenda, yet another bullshit attempt to discredit Sanders.

[okasha]

58. But Sanders is not "leader of a nation."

He's a politician who is running for office in a contested race. The invitation, whether the Chancellor intended it so or not, will be promoted by the Sanders campaign ad an endorsement of his candidacy by the Vatican.

Pope Francis has already disciplined two prelates who attempted to drag the Church into partisan American politics. Look for Santoro Sanchez to "resign" quietly from his post in two-three weeks.

[DebDoo]

80. But he is the leading American proponent of the ideals

and principles the conference aims to explore. And I'm sure the fact that even the Vatican recognizes this really bothers Clinton and her supporters.

[okasha]

81. No, he isn't.

John Lewis, Dolores Huerta, Native American elders and a great many clerical proponents of Libreration theology are far more qualified than Bernie Sanders on this issue.

It's a blatant political ploy on the part of his campaign and/or Sachs to inflience the American Catholic vote. I see this backfiring big time.On the other hand, maybe his handlers just want to get him out of town to pevent another disastrous interview.

[Avalux]

27. Now you're insulting Pope Francis's aide. How low will you go? n/t

[Fumesucker]

31. "Clueless Vatican chancellor": Three words seldom seen in proximity to one another

The Vatican was doing cutthroat (literally) politics when George Washington was but a gleam in his great, great, great, great grandfather's eye.

[Jitter65]

34. Wonder who really sought out the invitation?

Also wonder is the Pope will see some interference with the US election and cancel the visit? It may be good for Bernie's NY primary but it may come back to bite him.

[beam me up scottie]

37. The chancellor did:

Papal official denies report Sanders invited himself to Vatican

VATICAN CITY/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders was invited to speak at an April 15 Vatican event by the Vatican, a senior papal official said on Friday, denying a report that Sanders had invited himself.

"I deny that. It was not that way," Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo told Reuters in a telephone interview while he was traveling in New York. Sorondo, a close aide to Pope Francis, is chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the event.

He said it was his idea to invite Sanders.

A Bloomberg report quoted Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, as saying that Sanders had broken with protocol by failing to contact her office first.

"This is not true and she knows it. I invited him with her consensus," said Sorondo, who is senior to Archer.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senior-papal-official-untrue-sanders-invited-himself-vatican-173414032.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

[kennetha]

41. Looks like the guy who invited him now wants him to maybe speak.

Asked if Sanders might address the conference as well, Sanchez said, "I think that he needs to have the same possibility as the other political leaders." He clarified that it would have to be within the context of Centesimus annus.

Doesn't seem like the original idea was for him to give an actual talk.

Can you imagine Bernie up there pontificating (as it were) about Catholic social teachings? I doubt he knows anything about the relevant encyclical. Think he'll have time to brush up on it in the middle of this campaign.

This is a truly bizarre incident.

[Fumesucker]

48. Jews, Mormons and atheists/agnostics are the most knowledgeable groups in America about religion

I suspect Bernie knows more than most Americans and many Catholics about Catholic social justice teachings.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. I can vouch for that

not necessarily Sanders, but the most knowledgable part

[Else You Are Mad]

45. Please stop with this.

We get it, him being invited looks extremely bad for Clinton in NY because it is a heavily Catholic state and it is bothering you all. He out politically moved Clinton, that is all. And that's what this is, a very sound political move on Sanders part.


Nothing to see here & it is time to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to discredit Sanders.

[Lucinda]

74. We aren't worried at all. We are wonks...and people are curious about the choice.

Which is an unusual one to make at this point in time. But Bernie does Bernie. It's part of his charm.

[questionseverything]

49. ok so hc's campaigns new theme is the Vatican is clueless

stop digginggggggggg

i beg of you on the off chance hc is the nominee at some point

between bill screaming at blm and this new hating on catholics is not the look democrats want campaigns to project

geesh hayes just called him "almost remorseful"

stop digging

[QC]

65. Well, high Vatican officials are naive when it comes to politics.

They just don't understand this sort of thing.

[PeoViejo]

68. There must be a disturbance in the Force.

The Concern Trolls are out pounding the keys.

[GeorgeGist]

73. Queasy has no legs ...