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Well, isn't that just lovely, Thom? (Original Post) NuclearDem Apr 2016 OP
85% of her voters in one county were disabled? I don't think so. jfern Apr 2016 #1
Whoosh. NuclearDem Apr 2016 #3
In Laramie county, Wyoming passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #10
Disabled from shooting themselves in the foot? Sancho Apr 2016 #68
But there was supposed to be a reason to vote absentee in Wyoming. jfern Apr 2016 #104
Trouble with math or was it a typo? TexasTowelie Apr 2016 #109
She had 625 surrogate votes jfern Apr 2016 #110
No she didn't, read the article again: TexasTowelie Apr 2016 #111
She did not, this is not factual. Agschmid Apr 2016 #113
So saying disabled were solicited is an insult? How's that work? nt revbones Apr 2016 #2
The disabled have a right to participate in politics too, you know. NuclearDem Apr 2016 #5
You're twisting my words. I asked how saying they were solicited is insulting? nt revbones Apr 2016 #7
exactly-- I don't get the insult either, or how he's saying their votes don't matter Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #21
That's Arkansas jujitsu kristopher Apr 2016 #22
He's not only insulting the disabled, he's hinting that the Clinton campaign engaged in fraud. brush Apr 2016 #26
45% of all Democrats in one county being disabled seems "odd". nt IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #63
Must be some hella high power lines where they live notadmblnd Apr 2016 #81
It turns out surrogate ballots can be submitted for multiple reasons. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #83
OK, but- why were they not added in until the end? notadmblnd Apr 2016 #85
Ah - everywhere else they START with the absentee count. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #91
What was that movie Chris Farley was in? notadmblnd Apr 2016 #100
"Wow! How did Clinton end up with so many of those forms" KittyWampus Apr 2016 #61
Right? wildeyed Apr 2016 #66
I think the weird thing is that Dem's with disabilities would vote for Hill. peace13 Apr 2016 #80
Calling legitimate GOTV wildeyed Apr 2016 #64
That isn't what he said artislife Apr 2016 #69
You should have the DOJ look into that. Kalidurga Apr 2016 #4
"Solicit Disabled Voters"?! Really not something you should concern yourself with, thom Cha Apr 2016 #6
I don't get the context, what exactly are they talking about? hollysmom Apr 2016 #8
He's upset Clinton organized absentee ballots for the caucus in WY nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #13
Post #10 say 45% of the Democrats in Laramie are disabled. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #60
You spend much time in rural America these days? wildeyed Apr 2016 #67
It might not be nefarious but it looks ODD. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #79
thom. joins cenc in becoming an ahole. eom artyteacher Apr 2016 #9
Has the latter ever not been an ahole? nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #14
Like to like--birds of a feather, and all that. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #16
Yet another charming Bernie surrogate. Lucinda Apr 2016 #11
Is that the guy who works for Putin Media Inc? nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #12
How nasty, disrespectful and base--and this from a supposed progressive icon. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #15
Couldn't agree more rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #33
He DOES strike me as a smooth talking huckster... Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #35
I believe he's really progressive rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #38
Bwaahaaa! So, his "sky-is-falling" meme is a bit dated, huh? Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #41
He was on Bill Maher a few weeks ago, and everyone totally ignored everything he said. Hoyt Apr 2016 #102
Yep. never could like him. Looked desperately for a progressive talk show Fla Dem Apr 2016 #94
"Smugness"...that was one of the words I was looking for! Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #97
Disrespecting the disabled harkens back to a very dark time in the history of the 20th century. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #17
Then YOU should stop doing it. kristopher Apr 2016 #23
Truth hurts DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #24
That's not excuse, you should bear the pain and stop doing it. kristopher Apr 2016 #34
According to Mr. Dithers Mr Hartman realized how patently offensive his tweet was and deleted it. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #36
Mr. Dithers know jack-shit about what Mr Hartmann thought. kristopher Apr 2016 #39
I really couldn't care less about your false characterization of me. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #42
Keep twisting an spinning the falsehoods. kristopher Apr 2016 #49
As the child of parents who were physically challenged Mr. Hartman owes me an apology. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #51
Keep twisting an spinning the falsehoods. kristopher Apr 2016 #52
You are just making me revive painful memories. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #54
No one is making you do anything kristopher Apr 2016 #56
There are more important things than winning elections like standing behind our... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #59
Has anyone addressed the fact that each surrogate ballot should have had nc4bo Apr 2016 #18
Ding, ding! dchill Apr 2016 #32
This will be corrected at the State level caucus in May NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #37
Arizona and Missouri were primaries Trenzalore Apr 2016 #43
You're right...I'll correct it. NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #45
You have a valid argument Trenzalore Apr 2016 #46
What are you saying, exactly? wildeyed Apr 2016 #75
1 person didn't submit 600. Agschmid Apr 2016 #114
Is that an actual screen save or are people making shit up? Vinca Apr 2016 #19
He's since deleted the tweet... SidDithers Apr 2016 #20
Who deleted the tweet? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #25
Hartmann... SidDithers Apr 2016 #27
The deletion of the offensive tweet indicates Mr, Hartman knew it was wrong. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #31
Exactly. Cha Apr 2016 #71
Well, one can hardly blame him for that! stone space Apr 2016 #103
Now that was sh***y Iliyah Apr 2016 #28
Thom has worked with special needs kids and started mmonk Apr 2016 #29
Then you'd think his comment SHOULD have been more like >>> KittyWampus Apr 2016 #47
Hopefully, every campaign will. stone space Apr 2016 #30
And that's the correct response. Thank You. KittyWampus Apr 2016 #48
K&R mcar Apr 2016 #40
A bad choice of words doesn't change the fact Thom is a good man. Octafish Apr 2016 #44
Care to explain your assertion Clinton was "stuffing the ballot box"? KittyWampus Apr 2016 #50
There were reports that one person delivered 300 ballots yesterday... Octafish Apr 2016 #53
Since Wyoming allows disabled primary voters to caucus by absentee ballot... KittyWampus Apr 2016 #58
Please link to the rule you site, from the form I found, it appears they can be mailed in... Native Apr 2016 #72
There you go. Octafish Apr 2016 #73
Please post a link. wildeyed Apr 2016 #77
Illegal? Or just dishonest? I despise dishonest motherfuckers, too. Octafish Apr 2016 #87
That's not dishonest. wildeyed Apr 2016 #90
That's what you said. Why put words in my mouth? Octafish Apr 2016 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author KittyWampus Apr 2016 #57
K&R! DemonGoddess Apr 2016 #55
Kick. nt msanthrope Apr 2016 #62
With a 45% disabled rate in one county, SOMEBODY should be looking IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #65
This. artislife Apr 2016 #70
I looked up the law. wildeyed Apr 2016 #78
I just looked up the RULE (it's a Democratic primary, so rule not law) - IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #82
Disability and work schedule? wildeyed Apr 2016 #84
Exactly. This might be a complete non-issue. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #89
Yes, caucuses suck. wildeyed Apr 2016 #93
Also, do you have the demographic breakout wildeyed Apr 2016 #88
I don't have the demographics and I agree with you. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #95
I am just interested in this type of thing. wildeyed Apr 2016 #101
UGH ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #74
Why I Support Hillary Clinton: A Disabled Woman’s Perspective ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #76
Thank you for this Haveadream Apr 2016 #86
That's fucked up. zappaman Apr 2016 #92
Thom deleted that tweet DesertRat Apr 2016 #96
Acient History - Hartmann explained on his show Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #99
Yeah... Tragl1 Apr 2016 #105
Kick! sheshe2 Apr 2016 #106
Same old song and dance. Splinter Cell Apr 2016 #107
i'm going to give him a pass on this JI7 Apr 2016 #108
Disgusting tweet on his part. hrmjustin Apr 2016 #112

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
68. Disabled from shooting themselves in the foot?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:40 AM
Apr 2016

...it's not a mystery. Here in Florida many Democrats vote by mail. Those who are loyal and registered are the most likely to vote by mail - they are already on the list.

Last minute and impulsive and party switchovers tend to show up too late to get the mail-in ballots down here.

We have all kinds of typos, screw ups, misprints, and foolishness with our ballots. Maybe some other parts of the country are getting into the election manipulation fun that Florida has enjoyed for almost 20 years!

TexasTowelie

(112,234 posts)
111. No she didn't, read the article again:
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 02:32 AM
Apr 2016

In total, just over 800 Laramie County voters showed up to make their presidential preference known, and 621 people turned in surrogate ballots.

Of those in-person voters, 329 sided with Clinton and 474 were for Sanders.

Of the more than 600 surrogate ballots received, 402 went in favor of Clinton and a mere 215 went to Sanders.

Clinton received 731 of those 1,430 total votes while Sanders took 689 – a 42-vote difference.

http://www.wyomingnews.com/news/new-clinton-supporters-slightly-outnumber-sanders-camp-at-laramie-county/article_97ebaff2-fe9e-11e5-a8e8-73e7ed6c9c66.html

Clinton had 402 surrogate ballots and 731 total ballots. 402/731 = 55%

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
21. exactly-- I don't get the insult either, or how he's saying their votes don't matter
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:13 AM
Apr 2016

Without more info on that link, it sounds like he's asking how Clinton got more absentee votes.

Checking twitter, sounds like there were shenanigans:
https://twitter.com/JenD1974/status/718943019655823360

Don't see the tweet from the OP, maybe it was deleted, but would like to see what he was responding to.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
22. That's Arkansas jujitsu
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:34 AM
Apr 2016

Take a criticism directed at a Clinton and twist it by pretending the subject of the criticism is whatever party is being exploited.

brush

(53,785 posts)
26. He's not only insulting the disabled, he's hinting that the Clinton campaign engaged in fraud.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:54 AM
Apr 2016

In Caucuses you have to show up and be in the room during a specific time slot.

Disabled people submit surrogate ballots because, duh, they're disabled.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
81. Must be some hella high power lines where they live
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:29 AM
Apr 2016

Either that or there is something definitely wrong with the water.

Almost half the voting population of a county disabled? Not buying it.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
83. It turns out surrogate ballots can be submitted for multiple reasons.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:35 AM
Apr 2016

And it just may be a very active GOTV effort (which I support).

Per the Wyoming Democratic Party website --

http://www.wyodems.org/frequently-asked-questions

7. What if I am unable to attend the county caucuses?
If an attendee is unable to attend their county caucus due to:
- Religious Observance
- Military Service
- Disability
- Illness
- Work Schedule
- Student studying abroad
then they may submit a surrogate form to the state party. The deadline for surrogate forms to be received is April 1st- since this deadline is past the form is no longer available.


I hate spamming the thread, but "The OP focus was on disability, but it looks like there may be more reasons, so does anyone KNOW if the "reason marked" was disability (which still seems crazy high to me)?"

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
85. OK, but- why were they not added in until the end?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:39 AM
Apr 2016

those ballots were required to be in by April 1. Seems to me those votes would have started off the counting.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
91. Ah - everywhere else they START with the absentee count.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:52 AM
Apr 2016

And that is one of the issues that freaked people out - the perception that someone went in a back room and "created" 300 absentee ballots for one candidate out of whole cloth?

Yes, that should be investigated. Election fraud (or even the perception of it) is bad for democracy.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
100. What was that movie Chris Farley was in?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:11 PM
Apr 2016

His brother was a politician and he was a fuck up? David Spade was assigned to be his handler and through their trials and mishaps they end up exposing his brother's opponent's election fraud by proving dead people were voting?

I wonder what made me think of that movie?

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
61. "Wow! How did Clinton end up with so many of those forms"
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:21 AM
Apr 2016

That is Hartmann's quote.

The need to defend everything involved with Sanders' pathetic campaign, his surrogates and supporters is obvious here.

You focus on the second part of his pathetic tweet and ignore the first.

Hartmann is supposedly an informed political commentator and he:

#1. voices disbelief/surprise
#2. while then questioning how Clinton ended up with SO MANY of those forms

Is he really that stupid that he doesn't know how Clinton's campaign would have gotten the appropriate number of forms to help their disabled supporters to exercise their right to vote?

Is he really surprised that Clinton's campaign is organized enough to help enfranchise their disabled voters?

Or maybe the simplest interpretation is the correct one:

Hartmann just can't get over the fact Sanders' campaign is so disorganized it couldn't also help enfranchise its own disabled voters and lashed out at Clinton.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
66. Right?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:33 AM
Apr 2016

You get the forms at Board of Elections, along with your voter registration forms. You can probably print them directly off the website, too.

I have done voter assistance at low income housing for seniors and the disabled and it is, hands down, one of my FAVORITE volunteer activities of all time. Probably of my favorite things, period. The idea that helping them to vote is somehow not legit or that is "soliciting" votes....

The elderly and disabled have a goddam RIGHT to participate, just like young voters, just like the poor and any group that faces obstacles and disenfranchisement. I don't know what to say about people who think there is a problem with this, particularly when they claim to be "progressive".

I am not big on purity tests for progressives, but this is one. If you want to keep a group from voting because you do not like the way they vote, you don't get to use that label. Disenfranchising voters is NOT progressive.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
80. I think the weird thing is that Dem's with disabilities would vote for Hill.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:27 AM
Apr 2016

Unless they are one percenters I fail to see the advantage. My sister was severely disabled the last six years of her life and she was a crazed Rethug. I used to tell her I needed to get to the poll to cancel out her vote. I never could understand her pompous association to vote against her needs. I can only hope that if one of her Rethug choices was geared more toward the people and their needs, that she would have chosen that candidate. My point is, I don't care in the least that a stack of votes from disabled Americans showed up. The weirdness us that so many were for Hill. I would love to see if all ballots were turned in or if the Bernie votes were ditched. We have had some of that in Ohio where voter registration drives mysteriously failed to submit the Dem voter registrations.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
64. Calling legitimate GOTV
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:23 AM
Apr 2016

practices "soliciting" is insulting. Campaigns contact their supporters and then encourage them to turnout to vote. That is called "campaigning" or "Get Out The Vote" or "GOTV" for short. It is what campaigns DO. It is perfectly legal. Sanders has done it well in places with large pools of youth votes and open primaries. He did not cheat when he did that. We do not say he "solicited" the youth voters. We say he tuned out his base. He did his GOTV and turned out voters who were legally permitted to vote. As did Clinton in WY.

Thom is being a jerk, making it sound like she did something shady and/or disabled voters should not be allowed to participate because he didn't like who they voted for. How very GOP of him.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
69. That isn't what he said
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:49 AM
Apr 2016

I know that I got a letter from the desk of William Jefferson Clinton (post marked Seattle!!) that pitched for her but also included a surrogate ballot. The thing about our state (WA) is that there had to be a good reason not to show up.

I have voted in every election, on every referendum (thanks Tim Eyeman) and local judgeships. I was their target market.

They just don't realize that the shift is in.

Cha

(297,285 posts)
6. "Solicit Disabled Voters"?! Really not something you should concern yourself with, thom
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:40 AM
Apr 2016

Thank you, Nuc

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
60. Post #10 say 45% of the Democrats in Laramie are disabled.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:18 AM
Apr 2016

Those are some pretty high numbers of "disabled" people.

800 Democrats were healthy enough to show up to vote, but 621 Democrats are apparently in bad shape.

Apparently the numbers who didn't show up were mostly Hillary, while the ones who did were mostly Bernie.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
67. You spend much time in rural America these days?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:38 AM
Apr 2016

Lots of health issues these days. Also, is there a rule that only disabled can absentee? ANYONE can absentee in my state. Plenty of perfectly healthy individuals use that type of ballot because they don't want to stand in line, might be out of town, whatever....

Sorry that Sanders did not manage to figure out the GOTV in that state well enough to maximize the turnout of his supporters, but that does not mean that Clinton did anything wrong.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
79. It might not be nefarious but it looks ODD.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:26 AM
Apr 2016

And it just may be a very active GOTV effort (which I support).

Per the Wyoming Democratic Party website --

http://www.wyodems.org/frequently-asked-questions

7. What if I am unable to attend the county caucuses?
If an attendee is unable to attend their county caucus due to:
- Religious Observance
- Military Service
- Disability
- Illness
- Work Schedule
- Student studying abroad
then they may submit a surrogate form to the state party. The deadline for surrogate forms to be received is April 1st- since this deadline is past the form is no longer available.


The OP focus was on disability, but it looks like there may be more reasons, so does anyone KNOW if the "reason marked" was disability (which still seems crazy high to me)?

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
15. How nasty, disrespectful and base--and this from a supposed progressive icon.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:43 AM
Apr 2016

Doesn't surprise me though.

I've always found his style to be supercilious and know-it-all--thinks he's too clever by half.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
33. Couldn't agree more
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:13 AM
Apr 2016

His show is supported by gold con artists (thus his constant failed predictions of imminent economic or market collapse, year in and year out) and bogus nutritional supplements he shills with personal testimony.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
35. He DOES strike me as a smooth talking huckster...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:17 AM
Apr 2016

who's found a "progressive" persona schtick to exploit.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
38. I believe he's really progressive
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:29 AM
Apr 2016

I just think his perpetual alarmism is unhelpful and self-interested. His sponsors are con artists, so he is taking advantage of the same ignorance in his audience (which you can see in the rantings of his biggest fans here on DU) as right wing talkers do.

Hartmann says plenty of intelligent things but then undermines it all with super beets and buy moar gold cuz the market is crashing bullshit. Right now his gold pitch includes "just look at the markets this year!" Well, he must have recorded it in February because yeah, look at them, up for the year.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
41. Bwaahaaa! So, his "sky-is-falling" meme is a bit dated, huh?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:37 AM
Apr 2016

I couldn't stand his condescension and stopped listening when Air America went belly-up.

About his being a dyed-in-the-wool progressive?
IMHO, it is NOT progressive to "take advantage of the same ignorance in his audience".

Just another media maven looking for suckers.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
102. He was on Bill Maher a few weeks ago, and everyone totally ignored everything he said.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:38 PM
Apr 2016

I felt bad for him, sort of.

Fla Dem

(23,690 posts)
94. Yep. never could like him. Looked desperately for a progressive talk show
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:00 PM
Apr 2016

found him on Sirius a few years ago. But after listening to him for a while just couldn't get by his smugnes. The "buy Gold" ads got me as well. They are RW products and I hate how he pitches them as if our economy is going down the tubes. All he wants to do is sell copies of his 20+ books.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
17. Disrespecting the disabled harkens back to a very dark time in the history of the 20th century.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:50 AM
Apr 2016

Not. Progressive. At. All.





BTW, Thom, my mom was a below the knee amputee . She often voted absentee.


kristopher

(29,798 posts)
23. Then YOU should stop doing it.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:39 AM
Apr 2016

Falsely Treating Criticism of Clinton as
Criticism of the Disabled is
Cynically MisUsing the Status of
The Disabled
To Protect a
Corrupt Politician.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
36. According to Mr. Dithers Mr Hartman realized how patently offensive his tweet was and deleted it.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:26 AM
Apr 2016


That's not excuse, you should bear the pain and stop doing it.


According to Mr. Dithers Mr Hartman realized how patently offensive his tweet was and deleted it, ergo:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511696163#post27



In light of that would you agree with me that all people of good will should criticize those noxious sentiments and exempt themselves from them as well?

And if not, why not?

Thank you in advance.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
39. Mr. Dithers know jack-shit about what Mr Hartmann thought.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

Not wanting to deal with disingenuous assholes is a far more viable read.

You think lying by twisting the meaning of a clear, unambiguous statement is a good way to flow - Go For It. That's a behavior consistent with the mainstream behavior of clinton supporters so you aren't an exception.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
42. I really couldn't care less about your false characterization of me.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:38 AM
Apr 2016

I do take exception to your false characterization of my friend, Mr. Dithers. I would walk through a hail of gunfire for him.

My mom was a below the knee amputee and my dad was blinded in his right eye during the North African Campaign in WW ll. Mr. Hartman's casual disregard for those with physical challenges is contemptible. Shame on anybody who refuses to condemn such noxious sentiments. Instead of heaping abuse on those with physical challenges they should be thankful they don't have any.



kristopher

(29,798 posts)
49. Keep twisting an spinning the falsehoods.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

Hartmann criticized Clinton and questioned her very, very, very questionable ethics.

Your attempt to pull heartstrings and exploit the disabled is entirely on you and your compadres. It is not only transparently obvious, it is a repellent extension of what has become Clinton campaign tactics under Brock.

You'd be well advised to stop as your actions are only counter-productive to the goal of Dems winning the election.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
51. As the child of parents who were physically challenged Mr. Hartman owes me an apology.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:54 AM
Apr 2016

And if David Brock is guilty of disparaging our brothers and sisters with physical challenges he is worthy of opprobrium and censure too.

Let's not use our brothers and sisters with physical challenges as political fodder. We are better than that.


I am glad Mr. Hartman saw the error of his ways and deleted the odious tweet.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
52. Keep twisting an spinning the falsehoods.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:55 AM
Apr 2016

Hartmann criticized Clinton and questioned her very, very, very questionable ethics.

Your attempt to pull heartstrings and exploit the disabled is entirely on you and your compadres. It is not only transparently obvious, it is a repellent extension of what has become Clinton campaign tactics under Brock.

You'd be well advised to stop as your actions are only counter-productive to the goal of Dems winning the election.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
54. You are just making me revive painful memories.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:01 AM
Apr 2016

You are just making me revive painful memories, like having a dad with one good eye and a mom with one good leg. I will never forget when my mom told me how my dad told her, while they were dating, he was blind in one eye. He took shrapnel in the eye and belly and contacted malaria during the North African campaign fighting Hitler and his buddy Musollini's armies. He spent six months in Walter Reed Hospital and while they could cosmetically save his eye they couldn't save his sight. My mom told him he was a hero.

Shame on anybody who is callous towards our brother ans sisters with physical challenges and shame on those who defend them.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
56. No one is making you do anything
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:06 AM
Apr 2016

You are weaving a narrative where you claim to be victimized. A quick review shows your intent clearly.

So keep twisting an spinning the falsehoods.

Hartmann criticized Clinton and questioned her very, very, very questionable ethics.

Your attempt to pull heartstrings and exploit the disabled is entirely on you and your compadres. It is not only transparently obvious, it is a repellent extension of what has become Clinton campaign tactics under Brock.

You'd be well advised to stop as your actions are only counter-productive to the goal of Dems winning the election.

PS This is your last bump.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
59. There are more important things than winning elections like standing behind our...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:17 AM
Apr 2016

There are more important things than winning elections like standing behind our physically challenged brothers and sisters.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
18. Has anyone addressed the fact that each surrogate ballot should have had
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:00 AM
Apr 2016

One living, breathing representative per ballot and was it legit for just 1 person to submit 600 (?) surrogate ballots?

I believe that's the real question not that fact that a candidate's supporter/representative GOTV at a nursing home, for instance.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
37. This will be corrected at the State level caucus in May
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:28 AM
Apr 2016

when the Clinton "surrogates" don't show. The same tactic was used in NV, and if you check now you will find it in the column as a Bernie win. It's really just to change the "appearance" of the race on the day when that particular caucusing state is in the news cycle. In May when they reconvene WY caucus will be well out of the public eye and safe to make the correction with minimal impact on perception.

Trenzalore

(2,331 posts)
43. Arizona and Missouri were primaries
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:39 AM
Apr 2016

You can't flip pledged delegates at the state convention. The narrative you are looking for is Nevada.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
75. What are you saying, exactly?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:12 AM
Apr 2016

It sounds like you are implying that someone submitted 600 absentee ballots? Can you clarify?

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
29. Thom has worked with special needs kids and started
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:01 AM
Apr 2016

a school for them and abused children. Be careful who you try to smear.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
47. Then you'd think his comment SHOULD have been more like >>>
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:48 AM
Apr 2016

"Sanders's campaign should have made more of an effort to enfranchise handicapped voters".

Or, if he needed to comment on Clinton >>>

"Good for Clinton's campaign for enfranchising handicapped voters".

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
44. A bad choice of words doesn't change the fact Thom is a good man.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:40 AM
Apr 2016

Stuffing the ballot box pisses off anybody who cares about Democracy.

in Hartmann's case, the record shows a lifetime of work on behalf of all good people.

He has never supported the "money trumps peace" crew who invade innocent countries to steal their oil.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
50. Care to explain your assertion Clinton was "stuffing the ballot box"?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:52 AM
Apr 2016

Being both organized and willing to help handicapped supporters exercise their right to vote is "stuffing the ballot box"?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
53. There were reports that one person delivered 300 ballots yesterday...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:55 AM
Apr 2016

...when the caucus rules said each ballot had to have one person bring it on behalf of the voter.

I thought you knew that, KittyWampus.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
58. Since Wyoming allows disabled primary voters to caucus by absentee ballot...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:12 AM
Apr 2016

How else were those ballots supposed to get there?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
73. There you go.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:08 AM
Apr 2016

7. What if I am unable to attend the county caucuses?
If an attendee is unable to attend their county caucus due to:
Religious Observance
Military Service
Disability
Illness
Work Schedule
Student studying abroad
then they may submit a surrogate form to the state party. The deadline for surrogate forms to be received is April 1st- since this deadline is past the form is no longer available.


http://www.wyodems.org/frequently-asked-questions

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
90. That's not dishonest.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:51 AM
Apr 2016

That is called GOTV. It is part of the process Are you suggesting that disabled voters not be allowed to participate?

Response to KittyWampus (Reply #50)

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
65. With a 45% disabled rate in one county, SOMEBODY should be looking
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:25 AM
Apr 2016

into this -- it's either fraud, or absolutely terrifying.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
78. I looked up the law.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:17 AM
Apr 2016

You do not have to be disable to submit an absentee ballot. Any voter legally entitled to vote can do it. So you can put your worries to rest.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
82. I just looked up the RULE (it's a Democratic primary, so rule not law) -
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:32 AM
Apr 2016

and we are talking there, too.

For those following the sub threads, this is what it says:

http://www.wyodems.org/frequently-asked-questions

7. What if I am unable to attend the county caucuses?
If an attendee is unable to attend their county caucus due to:
- Religious Observance
- Military Service
- Disability
- Illness
- Work Schedule
- Student studying abroad
then they may submit a surrogate form to the state party. The deadline for surrogate forms to be received is April 1st- since this deadline is past the form is no longer available.


I also said "The OP focus was on disability, but it looks like there may be more reasons, so does anyone KNOW if the "reason marked" was disability (which still seems crazy high to me)?"

Hopefully this is just a very excellent GOTV effort.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
84. Disability and work schedule?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:37 AM
Apr 2016

High levels of disability in rural areas these days. Kids. Work. Whatever.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
89. Exactly. This might be a complete non-issue.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:49 AM
Apr 2016

The only thing that would make it one is if "everyone" default checked "disability" (which seems nutty - 45% disabled is crazy) and then it should be investigated NOT JUST FOR POTENTIAL FRAUD (which *might* be an issue), but also because almost half the participants don't like the current system (inconvenient caucus).

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
93. Yes, caucuses suck.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:54 AM
Apr 2016

EVERYONE should go to Instant Runoff format for primaries. Voters rank their choices from 1-3. If the first choice is the low voter getter, their next choice pops up and the vote is recalculated until enough candidates are eliminated. Like a caucus, but done in a regular, accessible election format.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
88. Also, do you have the demographic breakout
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:48 AM
Apr 2016

of the voters who participated? Was it 45% of ALL participants? The disability rate for Laramie County, 65 and under is 8.5 percent, so not at all unreasonable to think that a large percentage of the primary voters, who would skew older, are disabled, particularly if one of the campaigns was targeting them.

I have done turnout with older and disabled voters. You can provide forms and limited assistance, but after that, hands off the controls unless you want to be charged with felony voter fraud.

There is no law against turning out your base voters. I am sure that Sanders was beating the bushes at the colleges, too

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
95. I don't have the demographics and I agree with you.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:00 PM
Apr 2016

Elsewhere someone commented that someone basically went into a back room and came out with 300 surrogate ballots at the end of the process (I am paraphrasing) which set off all kinds of alarms. It should be pretty easy to investigate that; it might be something as simple as stressed out "oh, crap, I forgot about these" but even the perception of "bad behavior" is a cause for concern.

Oh, and thank you for your GOTV efforts!

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
101. I am just interested in this type of thing.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:20 PM
Apr 2016

And frankly, absentee is the most easily abused form of voting. But it is also necessary to make voting accessible to so many.

ismnotwasm

(41,988 posts)
76. Why I Support Hillary Clinton: A Disabled Woman’s Perspective
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:15 AM
Apr 2016
You see, in addition to being a lifelong liberal, I am also a disabled woman. These identities matter to me. Unlike Sanders, Clinton has a long and distinguished record of fighting for the disability community. Early on in her career, Clinton played a pivotal role in pushing for the first special education law, ensuring children with disabilities had the right to free and appropriate public education.

As Secretary of State, Clinton appointed the first Special Advisor on Disability Rights for the U.S. Department of State. During her tenure as secretary, Clinton also vigorously fought for ratification of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.These examples are only a few of the many reasons I believe Clinton is the better candidate for my community — the disability community.

Since the beginning of her campaign, Clinton’s website has included a page dedicated to disability rights. While this may seem small, this gesture demonstrates her commitment to our issues. To be fair, Sanders recently added a similar page to his website. Neither is perfect, and I wish both were far more detailed. But it is more than a webpage that matters.

Unlike Sanders (who has admittedly mentioned the disability community on occasion), Clinton regularly discusses disability rights in her speeches. Even during her Super Tuesday speech, she mentioned fighting for the rights of people with disabilities! More importantly, she engages with disability leaders and the broad disability community for advice on how to address our issues. For example, Clinton’s autism plan was the result of significant discussions with the autistic community. In contrast, I am unaware of any similar conversations between the disability community and the Sanders campaign.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robyn-powell/why-support-hillary-clinton-disabled-woman_b_9375858.html

Haveadream

(1,630 posts)
86. Thank you for this
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:40 AM
Apr 2016

Fantastic article about HRC support of people with disabilities with longtime attention, policies and plans. Robyn Powell-- a proud disabled woman, attorney, disability law and policy consultant -- is a fierce advocate. I hope she responds to just how thoroughly Thom Hartmann insulted an already disenfranchised and discriminated against group.


Love this part of her article:



Intersectionality matters. As demonstrated most recently by Clinton’s support among people of color in Nevada and South Carolina, she is attuned to race issues. Indeed, Clinton has been endorsed by a number of prominent civil rights activists, such as Representative Jim Clyburn, as well as the Congressional Black Caucus. A strong supporter of LGBT rights, Clinton has also been endorsed by the Human Rights Committee. Race, gender, and LGBT issues matter to the disability community. In fact, recent data from the CDC indicates that disability is more prevalent among people of color as well as women. Moreover, some people with disabilities also belong to the LGBT community. People with disabilities who are also African American, women, or LGBT face multiple levels of discrimination. We need a president who can be a champion on all of our issues.




"The disability community is 56.7 million people strong"


Everyone: GOTV for people with disabilities!







 

Tragl1

(104 posts)
105. Yeah...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:15 PM
Apr 2016

I just don't get the offense, other than at most a poorly worded tweet, could have been clearer in asking.

So don't care about this, and those that do, meh. All I have to say is meh.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
108. i'm going to give him a pass on this
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:31 PM
Apr 2016

and i'm glad he deleted it which shows he realized how wrong it was .

he isn't usually like this and it shows how heated campaigns can get to people and make them react in ways they usually wouldn't.

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