2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClosed vs. Open Primaries: Final Attempt to Delegitimize Hillary’s Victory Is Discredited
http://bluenationreview.com/final-attempt-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory-is-discredited/The latest talking point Bernie Sanders, his staff, and his surrogates have been peddling to try to explain why hes lost, to try to claim the system is rigged, and to try to delegitimize Hillary Clintons victory, is that closed primaries are undemocraticand that if Independent voters had been allowed to participate, he would have won.
Vox crunched the numbers and it turns out that, while Bernies fortunes would have been slightly better had Independents been able to participate in the small number of closed primaries so far, he would have won 41 more delegates than he currently has. Clinton is currently leading Sanders by 293 delegates (without even counting the superdelegates).
Meanwhile, FiveThirtyEight compares the Republican Primary rules with the Democratic Primary rules, and finds that Hillarys pledged delegate lead would triple under the GOP rules: The Democrats delegate allocation rules are more fair than the GOPs rules in the sense that vote shares are translated into delegate shares more faithfully and uniformly If the Democrats used Republican allocation, Clinton would have wrapped up the nomination long, long ago.
Another talking point bites the dust.
Bernies campaign has run out of excuses. The Democratic primary system is not rigged in Hillarys favor. There are no grand conspiracies.
The plain truth is that what happened is the most basic story in politics: Someone wins and someone loses.
Bernie often opens his speeches by recounting how his candidacy was a long shot. How he was the underdog, with very little national name recognition and lacking the powerhouse fundraising capacity of his opponent. He boasts about how they have surpassed all expectations.
All of these things are true. He has had extraordinary success, and congratulations to him for it.
But his ubiquitous tale of his longshot candidacy must now complete its arc with some honesty about how long odds often dont pay out. It was an uphill battle, and he didnt quite make it to the zenith.
Theres no shame in that. There is, however, shame in continuing to insist that he is losing for any other reason than because his campaign simply didnt resonate with as many primary voters.
At this point, Bernie needs to stop making excuses and say these words: Hillary Clinton is beating us fair and square. Its the right thing to do.
LexVegas
(6,052 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)He's an easy target, too. Within a month, his unfavorables would be driven up 10-15 points, and his GE advantage would be gone or even made into a deficit.
He is to our side what Kasich is to theirs. Kasich isn't actually as strong as he appears. He's taken the role of the "what might have been" contender and that's sort of where Sanders is now. It's ficitionalized and hasn't been subjected to scrutiny.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)If he doesn't, he will have a table in the back of the room at the convention.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)..
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and keep her updated on the open/closed/mixed status of the upcoming primaries.
I mean, she's just ALL over the place with her mixed-up information.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)factfinder_77
(841 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)brooklynite
(94,490 posts)The Sanders people will find PLENTY of additional ways to try and discredit Clinton.
They won't work any better....
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)gained approximately 41 more delegates if all primaries were open.
I can't blame (too much) a man running for president with everything he has for playing to his followers' paranoia, feelings of marginalization, and hostility toward the other candidate, but it IS definitely time for him to at least refute the anger his lies have generated and set himself to generating new excitement around achievable progressive goals.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)
...is a vision of a future America with Single Payer, free tuition, drug treatment on demand, no fracking, public funding of elections, Glass-Steagall, etc.
If he were only interested in incrementalism, he wouldn't have run for president.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)behind, also timidity, small-mindedness, and empire-building.
Bernie's call to rally in numbers right now and force change definitely had appeal to me too. THAT's why, even though he failed to draw the needed numbers, I am hoping he will still be able to affect the direction and pace change takes.
Somewhat. As this post makes clear, Democrats have spoken by voting for both candidates but by far more for Hillary -- we want change, but we need responsible, carefully thought out, achievable, stable change that accomplishes what it is supposed to.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...was that responsible change?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)moderate liberal Democrat. The Bernies of his day were very angry with him for getting in their way, the same as they are with Hillary now but a lot more. So (no surprise), in those days G-S was a large and very much needed, but very unsatisfyingly revolutionary, move.
A better question is, in this enormously different environment, would FDR's advisors of today recommend just keeping banks out of the investment business as the major fix for our financial industry problems, or would they think the rest of the financial industry needed to be regulated? What would they think of Dodd-Frank and how would they develop it further in future?
As a side note, those guys were very smart. How long would it take for them to wrap their minds around all the ramifications of computerized global finance and be able to foresee what would happen to L, F1, F3, A, and R separately and in combination if D, O, and/or G were changed?
(Just so you know, I've always wanted the banks broken up again. I remember when B of A used to be able to operate in only 3 states. Are we stupid or what!)
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Sanders voted for Dodd-Frank.
Hillary Clinton calls some firms "shadow banks." She wants "shadow banks" to have more reporting requirements. If you're implying that a President Sanders would veto such a bill, then I disagree.
Some were angry with FDR for not going further. That happens to every president who passes reforms. It would happen to a President Sanders. It's not a difference between FDR and Sanders.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)on "breaking up the banks," when a far broader approach is needed. In a world where only so much can be accomplished at any one time, most left-leaning and moderate economists do not feel that is the way to get the financial world under adequate regulatory control. To put it mildly.
QC
(26,371 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)It must be embarrassing for DU's owners, to have a site so tilted toward Sanders while taking money from Clinton
And remember all those posts in ATA over the past four years telling us that there is no such thing as alert stalking and the jury system is the greatest thing since peanut butter 'n jelly?
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...assuming just a 5 point difference everywhere.
NY, one of the biggest states, is the only state with a 6 month freeze on party-switching. Bernie Sanders probably would have gained more than 5 points in NY if it had open primaries.
msongs
(67,394 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...someone running in a Democratic primary who serves in Congress as an Independent would want both Democrats and Independents to be able to vote.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Unicorn
(424 posts)I got the idea you are.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Using HRC's super pac propaganda to
justify closed primaries now?
Just keep the propaganda coming, because
that is all you have left.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Response to DrDan (Reply #18)
Post removed
DrDan
(20,411 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)What a bunch of incompetent ass-clowns. The only people believing their bullshit are those already drinking Clinton Koolaid.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)Which part of the article do you dispute?
Stuckinthebush
(10,843 posts)Great read and spot on!
Unicorn
(424 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Not even Pravda was as bogus a 'news' source.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I mean it.