2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClinton Camp says She's Been Forced to the Left Enough Already
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/04/29/clinton-camp-says-shes-been-forced-left-enough-alreadyClinton ally tells The Hill, "I don't know what's left to extract."
Fresh after Bernie Sanders' call for a "a fifty-state strategy... to plant the flag of progressive politics" nationwide, new reporting on Friday suggests that Hillary Clinton's campaign won't be budged any further to the left.
After Clinton claimed more victories in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania this week, Sanders said, "we are in this race until the last vote is cast," adding that his campaign would head "to the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party platform."
Steps forward on issues that would constitute such a platform can already be seen in the race, observers say. As Max Ehrenfreund writes at Washington Post's Wonkblog Friday,
In the course of fending off Sanders's challenge, Clinton appears to have conceded to him on a couple of major economic policy issues. The former U.S. senator and secretary of state has abandoned the centrist positions she previously held on trade and Social Security and taken stances closer to Sanders's views.
That's not all that surprising, given factors apart from Sanders, Ehrenfreund writes. He points to data from Pew Research Center showing Americans' attitudes on various issues including race, poverty, regulation, and foreign policy are becoming more progressive. And there's also the influence of politicians like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) in areas like Social Security, he notes.
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Here's a Problem.
Will this become a non-starter at the Convention?
byyiminy
(39 posts)There's always another party for you to form. Call it by its true name: The Third Way.
dchill
(38,315 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)VOTE HILLARY!
Unicorn
(424 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...which includes a large number of Independants. Camp Weathervane may find themselves well short of votes they took for granted.
Avalon Sparks
(2,537 posts)Sparkly
(24,141 posts)We go through this every election.
Plenty of us on "the left" voted for "DINO" candidates Gore and Kerry, as well as Clark, Dean, Clinton and Obama (although he was seen as sufficiently "left" somehow).
Considering the reality of Congress and platforms, Sanders and Clinton really are not far apart in what they are saying. She goes further and has a clear, consistent track record supporting women, children, minorities, healthcare, and people who suffer worldwide.
Supporting Sanders doesn't = "left."
Supporting Clinton doesn't = "not left."
Let's retire that high horse some like to get on about how "Left" they are. Please.
Maybe new terms would apply, like "Possibilities for the cause" vs."Weighing down the cause." Or "Reality" vs. "More Republicans." Or "Women and Minorities" vs. "White Suburbanites."
Let's just not even go there.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Minorities- supporting heavy prison sentences for minor drug offenses...targeting minority communities. Increased profits for private prisons. Slashing welfare.
Children - says Hounduran refugee children should be sent back into a civil war zone, to teach their parents a lesson. Supports use of cluster bombs on civilians, which are particularly dangerous to children.
Woman - last fall she said she might compromise on choice in some circumstances.
Healthcare - she's against single payer, supports existing ACA, no plan to rein in costs...status quo.
People who suffer worldwide - have to ask people in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Honduras, and Ukraine how much they've suffered due to Clintons neo-con foreign policy. She plans to add Iran...where else? Likes war, it's the civilians who suffer most.
Sparkly
(24,141 posts)With all due respect, you have your facts wrong about what she supports and what she said.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Sparkly
(24,141 posts)She's not fooling anybody anyway. She's campaigning to the left but like
her hubby, she'll make a sharp rightward turn should she get into office.
jfern
(5,204 posts)How about not supporting a no fly zone where Russian planes are flying?
How about supporting the 21st century Glass Steagall bill that even the 2008 Republican Presidential nominee supports?
How about not opposing single payer, which a majority of Americans support?
Those are all very mainstream positions, but she chose the right-wing position in all 3. And I'm sure there are plenty of others.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)IT not like she will not support those things. You just have not paid her enough yet.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)JudyM
(29,122 posts)whole point!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)DLC/Third Way has been all too eager to put it on the bargaining table.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Must be true!
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)against the wall.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Response to Ferd Berfel (Original post)
potisok This message was self-deleted by its author.
pampango
(24,692 posts)And while political talk show host Bill Press told The Hill that it would be the wrong move for Clinton to "move back to the center," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.), told the political website that her campaign couldn't make any more leftward concessions, saying, "I don't know what's left to extract."
Cleaver added that "[Sanders has] already impacted this election probably more than anyone else including Donald Trump," and then suggested it was time for Sanders to help gather support for his rival.
Parnes also cites an anonymous Clinton ally who said, "We can't do it," regarding meeting some of Sanders' policy demands.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)With friends like Pete Peterson and the Third Way, Hillary's words about Social Security cannot be trusted.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)she can't be trusted. IF she's the NOm (and hasn't been indicted yet) once teh Convention is over, she will take a huge leap to teh Reich.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)At least, not in the past roughly two decades?
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)mooseprime
(474 posts)the campaign has finally achieved the impossible: it's become a vulgar caricature of itself.
at least we won't have to waste any more time pretending to discuss it.
sanders: you billionaires can't have it all!
clinton: you billionaires can have everything you want!
and to simplify the rest, they've made it completely clear what we're never going to talk about:
--iraq (now covered with depleted uranium! birth defects galore!)
--haiti
--honduras
--syria
--cluster bombs in civilian areas
--arms sales for foundation donations
--secrecy and circumvention of law
--enemy lists
--suppression of organized labor
--the middle class as a host organism to financial, medical, pharmaceutical sectors
mmmm--smell the freedom!!!!
i'm not sure why we have two parties, though. make they can make more that way.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and delegate count, and all those media endorsements, and Senate endorsements, and US Rep endorsements, and labor union endorsements. She's doing just fine.
If more people wanted Bernie, then Bernie would have more votes. Why try to convert her into Bernie? I know that's what Bernie supporters would like, but it makes no sense to me (and to all those who've voted for her and endorsed her OVER Bernie.)
They're right... she's left-enough already.
Skink
(10,122 posts)You just haven't thought that far ahead
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Skink
(10,122 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)or trying to vote. You may or may not understand that.
Arrogance, willful ignorance and utter disdain for the democratic process are killing all of us. But that's the MO of the RW.
New Proof The NY Primary Was RIGGED! [Truth & Comedy]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511861921#post9
Journalist Greg Palast Has Proof The 2016 Election Will Be Stolen
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... by proclaiming themselves to be "Independents" on their voter registration, then when they actually have a chance to participate, they realize too late that their own short-sighted mistake prevents them from so doing. But rather than accept responsibility and learn from it, they blame others and scream bloody murder about being "disenfranchised".
It's a vicious cycle of self-fulfilling, self-inflicted isolation, perpetual victimhood and conspiracy theories that will forever relegate those voters (and their causes) to the fringe.
Time for a little introspective self reflection, making better choices, a little humility, better candidates, reasonable messages with better appeal, less paranoia, a better perspective, more pragmatism, a willingness to compromise and abandon the all-or-nothing strategy.
Charming. Things like this (and the Russia Today video) are why y'all keep losing.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The RT segments are by Americans who are not allowed to say these things on M$M
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I'm sure that Russia Today is a non-profit org, right? No agenda at all...
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)That means the Hillary supporters know her positions and agree with or are tolerant of them whether it be war mongering, TPP, etc.
Logical
(22,457 posts)onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)She is supposed to be on the left, not act like it is a dirty word.
onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)If you listen to Hartmann you will have heard his say over and over again that you need to get involved. That you need to join your local Democratic party to get inside to change the party because that's what the Tea Baggers did on the right to the republicans.
It should be obvious that this is exactly what the disenfranchised republicans have done to the Democratic Party. Beginning with the DLC sale of the Party to Koch Bros (and others) in '85 by the Clinton's (and others) - a few months before Hillary was appointed to the board of Wall Mart.
Our tent has been too damn big. A life long republican can switch and say "well I'm a democrat now', the party says great and moves on. But no one questions: Did this republican all of a sudden renounce their previous life long held belief that a woman does not have the right to choose, had an Epiphany, and magically is just fine with choice now? That republican has supported privatizing Social Security and ending Medicare all their life (or career), but they're magically now a democrat... who STILL is working towards killing both, and did they renounce the neo-liberal ideology of Cheney, Bush, Rove, or did they brin that along with them also...and so on and so on.... This is how the Democratic Party of the Working Class and Middle Class has become a caricature of it's former self and morphed into the democrat party or Neo-Dems
I've been having the exact same arguments here, with Clinton Supporters that I have in my private life with my Republican friends and acquaintances. The same damned arguments with people claiming to be democrats. It's a step through the "looking glass".
onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)It's sad, I've been a dem Voting straight ticket my entire life, after June 7th, I will change my registration, probably for good. To say I'm disgusted is a vast understatement. I don't know what it's going to take to wake people up. My WWII veteran father is surely rolling in his grave. I'm happy he isn't alive to see what has become of this country.
BootinUp
(46,924 posts)I would rather have Hillary determine a winning national campaign's strategy/policies than Bernie.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,161 posts)Move long now.
djean111
(14,255 posts)No, I will not support a Republican Third Way hawk dressed in Democratic clothing.
Final answer.
pansypoo53219
(20,906 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)The minute she takes the oath she will revert to type.
eilen
(4,950 posts)day to day.. ie. my coworkers... don't want to vote for her. They say they don't trust her. They don't like Trump either. I think they are just not going to vote. Basically, unless Bernie is on the ticket, they don't like anyone else. A few of them were not registered Democrats so they could not vote for Bernie. They missed the October deadline because they were not really paying attention to the primary back then. There are a couple of Trump supporters but I think everyone has at least one in their workplace.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)aggregate the huge corporate contributions into one pile. Now, ask your self, what is the rate of return that these gangsters expect for this investment. Think loan shark models. Now do the math. Now subtract that number from our working capital...every year, for 8 years. Now, subtract about 60% of today's budget from that amount for the military adventures we will need to fund...every year for eternity. Then go buy a pizza for your friends with the money you have left. I'm sure they will pitch in for the difference.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And a very solid majority of millennials.
The idea that she couldn't possibly display any more leadership on that issue than she already has is laughable.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Moving to the left is not done by force it's done by introspection and critical thinking about what you see, hear, and read.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)She's burned her bridges to the left, and even the few lefties hanging on are becoming more and more disgusted with her. The RW is the logical place to seek votes, as their positions closer align and she hasn't pissed them off yet.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)That won't stop our Margaret Thatcher from trying, though.
Noone trusts her outside of the Democratic base, ignoring Democratic independents, that are voting for her in the Democratic primaries.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Republican-leaning independents will vote for Satan before they vote for Clinton.
Her only hope in November is enough Republican-leaning independents stay home. Problem is, her name on the ballot is a fantastic tool to drive turnout among Republican-leaning independents to vote against her.
coyote
(1,561 posts)Color me surprised.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)Being "forced" to the Left does not indicate any sort of commitment to any principles that are important to those on the Left.
Also, being "forced" indicates that she'll snap back to the Right the second she feels like it.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)She is who she is and no matter what she says, she is a repub
dchill
(38,315 posts)Or "You owe me your vote! Shut up!"
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Like another president asked us to do.
Which is the responsibility of the people in a democracy.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)On quite a few issues (FP/Trade, come to mind immediately) and we will LOSE. BIG.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)do these things.