So we've now gone from "it was allowed under the rules" to

[Press Virginia]

"I thought it was allowed"?
Did it not occur to HRC to ask the question about her e-mail account and server before using it? Clearly she's now saying she either didn't know the rules or wasn't clear on them.

It's the same evolving explanation we got on the classified information on her server. First it was "there is no classified information", then we got "I never sent or received any classified information" to "I never received anything marked classified"

This is why people distrust her. The truth doesn't need revision. Lies need revision and usually the revision happens after the first lie is caught.

[AtomicKitten]

1. Caught with her pants down, she still cannot tell the truth.

The general election is shaping up to be a battle between two pathological liars spewing bombastic bullshit.

[MuseRider]

13. Perfectly said Atomic Kitten.

Damn spellchecker.

[840high]

24. ...!100++++

[Fantastic Anarchist]

38. Such a great choice we have.

Ugh, we're doomed.

[CorporatistNation]

73. Look At These Solemn Faces On Morning Joe With Mika, Andrea Mitchell And Chuck Todd Among Others..

A Funeral.... They had been carrying Hillary's water throughout the campaign and now they all have to admit that they have been lied to... The mood is glum!

MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

[leveymg]

79. Some basic research (and journalistic integrity) by MSM should have long ago revealed HRCs lies.

Last edited Mon May 30, 2016, 10:58 AM - Edit history (2)

We did it here at DU for free, without a budget. The corporate media refused to do it in order to protect their jobs and salaries.

Along with the cheerleading for the Iraq War, this points out the utter corruption of both major parties and the stenographic press.

A good example of this is Dan Abrams, a high-profile legal analyst who has been on the ABC payroll and now edits LawNewz. Abrams has in recent days published a scathing critique of Hillary's account.
http://lawnewz.com/politics/hillary-clintons-emails-now-might-finally-take-her-down/

As recently as February, however, Abrams was still misrepresenting the law to protect HRC. What changed?

In February, Abrams was arguing that 18 USC Sec. 793 of the Espionage Act doesn't fit in a potential prosecution of Hillary because, he claimed, that statute wasn't intended to be applied to high officials. He omitted mention that other heads of agency who retained, removed or shared classified materials without authorization -- CIA Directors Petraeus (2012) and Deutch (1996) -- were found chargable under that same section of the Espionage Act, even if they pled down (Petraeus) or the AG allowed the case to expire with the result of a Presidential pardon (Deutch). See, http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/analysis-hillary-clinton-commit-crime-based-today/story?id=36626499

I don't think Abrams was being entirely honest, or was simply badly informed, and the Clintonites still seize on the argument he made. He's smart enough to read the statute and has a budget do some accurate historical research. Without an explanation from him, we must conclude Dan has realized the gig is up for Hillary and is now singing a different tune.

Maybe, it's simply that he's not working for ABC.

[Sparkly]

84. Some basic research and the NY Times

"Members of President Obama's cabinet have a wide variety of strategies, shortcuts and tricks for handling their email, and until three months ago there was no law setting out precisely what they had to do with it, and when. And while the majority of Obama administration officials use government email to conduct their business, there has never been any legal prohibition against using a personal account." (The New York Times, 3/13/15)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/14/us/politics/vague-email-rules-let-federal-agencies-decide-when-to-hit-save-or-delete.html

[leveymg]

87. It's not the server that's illegal, it's the classified information placed on it. That's a felony.

You may be confusing the violations of Departmental regulations detailed in the DOS IG report with the felony violations the Intelligence Community IG report, which will likely be released later this week, and the FBI report that will follow that.

[Sparkly]

88. No classified information was "placed on it."

It was reclassified at a later date.

[leveymg]

90. Not according to the joint statement of the DOS and Intel Commun. IGs

https://oig.state.gov/system/files/statement_of_the_icig_and_oig_regarding_review_of_clintons_emails_july_24_2015.pdf.

July 24, 2015
Statement from the Inspectors General of the Intelligence Community and the
Department of State Regarding the Review of Former Secretary Clinton's Emails

Yesterday the Office ofthe Inspector General ofthe Intelligence Community (IC IG} sent a
congressional notification to intelligence oversight committees updating them of the IC IG
support to the State Department IG (attached).

The IC IG found four emails containing classified IC-derived information in a limited sample of
40 emails of the 30,000 emails provided by former Secretary Clinton. The four emails, which
have not been released through the State FOIA process, did not contain classification markings
and/or dissemination controls. These emails were not retroactively classified by the State
Department; rather these emails contained classified information when they were generated
and, according to IC classification officials, that information remains classified today. This
classified information should never have been transmitted via an unclassified personal system.

and

The Spy Satellite Secrets in Hillary’s Emails
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/12/the-spy-satellite-secrets-in-hillary-s-emails.html

These weren’t just ordinary secrets found in Clinton’s private server, but some of the most classified material the U.S. government has.

After months of denials and delaying actions, Hillary Clinton has decided to turn over her private email server to the Department of Justice. As this controversy has grown since the spring, Clinton and her campaign operatives have repeatedly denied that she had placed classified information in her personal email while serving as secretary of state during President Obama’s first term. (“I am confident that I never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received,” she said last month.) Her team also denied that she would ever hand over her server to investigators. Now both those assertions have been overturned.

Hillary Clinton has little choice but to hand over her server to authorities since it now appears increasingly likely that someone on her staff violated federal laws regarding the handling of classified materials. On August 11, after extensive investigation, the intelligence community’s inspector general reported to Congress that it had found several violations of security policy in Clinton’s personal emails.

Most seriously, the inspector general assessed that Clinton’s emails included information that was highly classified—yet mislabeled as unclassified. Worse, the information in question should have been classified up to the level of “TOP SECRET//SI//TK//NOFORN,” according to the inspector general’s report.

TOP SECRET, as the name implies, is the highest official classification level in the U.S. government, defined as information whose unauthorized release “could cause exceptionally grave damage to national security or foreign relations.”

and,

CNN and Reuters: Inspectors General concluded Clinton emails presumed classified

The origin of the "presumed classified" determination applied to many of Hillary Clinton's emails are the Inspectors General of the Intelligence Community and the State Department, as reported by CNN. That assessment is shared by the former Director of the Government's Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO), as reported by Reuters.

CNN: 7/24/2015

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/24/politics/hillary-clinton-email-justice-department/
Official: Clinton emails included classified information

Washington (CNN)The inspector general for the intelligence community has informed members of Congress that some material Hillary Clinton emailed from her private server contained classified information, but it was not identified that way. Because it was not identified, it is unclear whether Clinton realized she was potentially compromising classified information.

The IG reviewed a "limited sampling" of her emails and among those 40 reviewed found that "four contained classified information," wrote the IG Charles McCullough in a letter to Congress. McCullough noted that "none of the emails we reviewed had classification or dissemination markings" but that some "should have been handled as classified, appropriately marked, and transmitted via a secure network."

The four emails in question "were classified when they were sent and are classified now," spokeswoman Andrea Williams told CNN.

McCullough said that State Department Freedom of Information Act officials told the intelligence community IG that "there are potentially hundreds of classified emails within the approximately 30,000 provided by former Secretary Clinton."

CNN 8/17/15

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/17/politics/hillary-clinton-server-referred-for-further-review/
Washington (CNN)Intelligence officials assigned to review emails from Hillary Clinton's server for classified information have so far recommended that 305 documents be referred to agencies for further consultation, according to a report filed with a federal judge Monday.

In court papers filed with U.S. District Court Judge Rudolph Contreras, the State Department updated its progress. It said that as of last Friday, Intelligence Community reviewers had completed a preliminary screening and determined that "out of a sample of approximately 20% of the Clinton emails," the reviewers have "recommended 305 documents -- approximately 5.1% -- for referral to their agencies for consultation."
. . .

inspectors general for the State Department and for the Intelligence Community raised concerns about the content of the emails, the State Department added intelligence staff to assist in the process.

Reuters 8/24/15

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/21/us-usa-election-clinton-emails-idUSKCN0QQ0BW20150821
Exclusive: Dozens of Clinton emails were classified from the start, U.S. rules suggest

In the small fraction of emails made public so far, Reuters has found at least 30 email threads from 2009, representing scores of individual emails, that include what the State Department's own "Classified" stamps now identify as so-called 'foreign government information.' The U.S. government defines this as any information, written or spoken, provided in confidence to U.S. officials by their foreign counterparts.

This sort of information, which the department says Clinton both sent and received in her emails, is the only kind that must be "presumed" classified, in part to protect national security and the integrity of diplomatic interactions, according to U.S. regulations examined by Reuters.

"It's born classified," said J. William Leonard, a former director of the U.S. government's Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO). Leonard was director of ISOO, part of the White House's National Archives and Records Administration, from 2002 until 2008, and worked for both the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations.

"If a foreign minister just told the secretary of state something in confidence, by U.S. rules that is classified at the moment it's in U.S. channels and U.S. possession," he said in a telephone interview, adding that for the State Department to say otherwise was "blowing smoke."

[Sparkly]

94. Key Word: "Retroactively."

You also fail to distinguish between sender and recipient, and to recognize that dot-gov or dot-other makes NO difference -- NEITHER is considered secure for classified info.

(As for the "born classified" excuse for an attack, this has been debunked repeatedly.)

[Press Virginia]

97. EO13526 sect 1.4

Those items are automatically classified if they meet the standards in sec 1.2.

They are classified upon creation

[leveymg]

98. None of that is germaine.

If you're going to claim something was "debunked recently" you have to cite a credible source.

[Press Virginia]

93. Except for the 114 e-mails that HRC personally authored that were

confidential upon creation. The 7 e-mails from the POTUS, which are at least confidential in nature, the 4 e-mails the IC IG found in the original sample, which prompted his request to the FBI, that were from Secret to TS as the time of their creation.
And then there's the 22 emails that were so secret they were 100% redacted

[Sparkly]

95. "Classified upon creation"

That is baloney, as is your timeline. The RNC thanks you, but Trump is going to lose.

[Press Virginia]

96. EO 13526 spells out what is classified upon creation

section 1.4 is the relevant portion

[leveymg]

99. Your response is not on point and is insulting. nt

[HooptieWagon]

102. Classified upon creation is not only covered in the law,...

...but the SoS is required to recieve training on handling such material, as it's assumed the SoS would generate a significant amount of classified at creation documents. Clinton even signed a required statement that she received such instruction.

[Yurovsky]

2. Is it any surprise why she didn't want an IG at State?

She & Bill have always played fast and loose with the rules. Before the interwebs, they could get off with plausible denials and hiding/destroying incriminating evidence. This might finally be karma settling up with a lifetime of questionable behavior and financial shenanigans.

[polly7]

4. I can't get over the arrogance and self-entitlement of all of this.

Such a tangled, ugly web involving so many human beings that didn't deserve to suffer for their hubris and greed. I had no idea how many people had been harmed since his presidency ... add in all those during her term as SoS and it's staggering.

[Yurovsky]

10. Yep, that's the thing that gets lost...

when someone gains financially due to illicit means, someone undeservedly suffers. When Hillary cashes in at colleges with ridiculous speaking fees, less money is available to help needy students. When Goldman Sachs believes they have White House protection, they continue to screw the "little people" with impunity. When Hillary rigs the Democratic primary system to favor the "inevitable" winner, we all face the possibility of suffering a President Trump or a Hillary impeachment.

Hillary's lies are costing all of us. It's high time they started costing her.

[dchill]

78. Apparently, there is no price too high for us to pay...

for the Clintons' dreams.

[findrskeep]

101. Very well said...

[Octafish]

5. The Edge of Legality

Like a Twilight Zone where the legal and not legal are but mere shadows for those with means and and outstanding legal team of forensic economists.

"Shenanigans."

[jwirr]

27. And THAT is a perfect description of where Bill and Hillary

have always been. The skate up to the edge of illegal with just their toe on the ice and then turn around and say "I did not do that."

It is the worst kind of use for a law degree.

[Yurovsky]

53. Agree 100% with your last sentence...

They have used their knowledge of the law and the legal system to skirt the law and enrich themselves. Hopefully Karma will reward them 10 fold for their abuses of the American legal and political system.

[nolabels]

68. Through the years that seems like the story with many

Eventually the slippery wears out and get caught in trying slither through that last crack

[XemaSab]

3. We turned over everything! Except the stuff that I decided not to turn over!

[Press Virginia]

6. and she acts as though she did it and they were made public at her request

instead of a FOIA lawsuit.

I wonder if she even knows what the truth is

[Fantastic Anarchist]

39. Hillary and truth = oil and water.

[davidlynch]

16. Translation: Yes, I wiped the server n/t

[SusanCalvin]

48. That's about the size of it.

Why should I trust her as to what's relevant and what's not?

[trumad]

7. Tick Tock BSers

Tick tock

[Press Virginia]

11. her evolving explanations have nothing to do with anyone but her

[Hydra]

17. Yes, we see all of you watching the clock with various levels of apprehension

Will the bomb go off before convention? Bernie has not be successfully ejected yet.

Who is the backup plan if Clinton is disqualified before the GE? Biden? Will you guys smoothly pivot to support him if needed?

[Press Virginia]

22. They will blame Comey and spew the "innocent until proven guilty"

line while desperately clinging to the idea she was only targeted because she's a woman.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

40. As far as I know, Biden is infinitely a better choice.

Especially, with a Trump presidency looming.

[Hydra]

42. Ah, but the Brock team belongs to Hillary

I'm not sure if that loyalty is transferable without a new set of paychecks.

[libdem4life]

50. Biden kind of half-heartedly already ran.

His dying son begged him Not to run for president.

So, like Warren, the establishment Dems aren't at all eager to attach themselves to a failed candidacy. There is only who could pull it off. But egos being what they are...well we all know.

[Aerows]

70. I'd sure as hell vote for Biden

over Trump or Clinton. Obviously I prefer Bernie, but I would be willing to work hard to get Biden elected if Bernie was not a choice vs. Trump.

Slowly dragging my ass to the polls to half-heartedly vote for Clinton is about the best I can do if it comes down to Hillary or Trump.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

100. I think I'll be staying home. I just can't vote for Hillary.

[rhett o rick]

31. I am proud to be a BSer. Your attempts to ridicule are childish, but then that's your

side. Nothing of substance only mockery and ridicule. But I do think your "Tick Tock" is ironic under the circumstances.

[trumad]

33. Tick tock

[Press Virginia]

34. your hopes must be pinned to this story going away by June 7th

Or, at least, no more evidence coming out proving HRC lied about something else related to her server set up

[rhett o rick]

37. Again, childish

[Fantastic Anarchist]

41. Yes, time is running out on Your Highness.

[jonmac511]

56. drip drip

[trumad]

69. Tick tock

[dchill]

80. +1,000,001

[Herman4747]

49. Being saved from having a HORRIBLE CANDIDATE represent us is possible:

If Indictment Fairy comes through for us OR if the horrible candidate finally realizes she is indeed horrible and withdraws from contention!

[onecaliberal]

8. Part of the rules is if you don't know you need to ask and she

Didn't do that either.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

43. Yep. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

[Blue Meany]

9. I remember when the criteria for Republican candidates almost reached "not yet indicted" back in the

1990s. Let's hope were not headed there.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. "I did not have relations with that server!" - Hillary Rodham Pinnochio

[Press Virginia]

14. pretty much

[Fantastic Anarchist]

44. "Sorry, officer. I didn't know that I couldn't do that."

[DebDoo]

15. Strategic ignorance aka If I don't ask, I don't know, therefore I'm not guilty

If I don't ask, I don't know, therefore I'm not guilty

[Press Virginia]

21. she would have been better off saying she didn't know the rules

and just assumed her actions were compliant rather than claiming her set up was allowed under the rules.
She held herself out as an authority on the rules, from the start. Now she's trying to feign ignorance.

[LAS14]

61. Given that there was no stated prohibition...

... it's reasonable to assume that it's allowed. The "prohibition" is an after the fact statement by State. Sort of if we had known we would have said "no." Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[grasswire]

28. it's called "plausible deniability" nt

[Downwinder]

18. What did you expect?

She supported "Don't ask, don't tell."

[RobertEarl]

19. It was a gamble

They almost got away with it.

The use of the State Department to build personal power, enrich themselves and their friends, has met justice.

It was inevitable.

[thesquanderer]

20. As "TPP sets the gold standard" became " "I hoped it would be the gold standard." (n/t)

[LAS14]

62. Perfectly reasonable. As circumstances change, one must change with them.

[pdsimdars]

23. I don't even see how she can say that. SHE sent out an email to all the employees

telling them NOT to do what she was doing. So how did she not know?
Also, she fired the Ambassador to Kenya for doing it. How did she not know?
Her use of her server for her email was questioned and the people asking the questions were told not to mention it again.
She was given a few warnings about it, and she ignored them.

I think there is a difference between not knowing and conscious ignoring of rules and regulations.

[Press Virginia]

26. The truth is she didn't care about the rules but she's never going to

admit to that

[Cheese Sandwich]

25. There may be more than one pathological liar running for president.

[cui bono]

46. psst...

there still is.

.

[Dems to Win]

29. Pretty upsetting that she refused to be interviewed by the IG

She refused to be interviewed by the IG, appointed by Obama, of the Dept. she used to lead. It shows contempt for the government and its procedures and checks and balances.

And now she wants to be President of that government. As a proud 'good government' type, this is really hard for me to stomach.

California and New Jersey, Save Us!

#StillSanders

[Press Virginia]

30. I believe it was probably on advice from council

but it would never be admitted

[undergroundpanther]

32. first excuse of a caught sociopath

But but I didnt KNOW i was breaking the laww...
I..i..i didnt Know. ..it was....wrong..... Same old shit.

[winter is coming]

35. So she was too dumb to know it wouldn't be allowed and too lazy to check?

Wow, that makes it so much better.

[liberal_at_heart]

36. Either she is corrupt or incompetent. Neither is acceptable.

[cui bono]

45. Too bad she can't have one of her lackeys change the rules on a whim without a proper vote.

[Press Virginia]

47. The fact that people are actually defending her still amazes me

she lied. The truth doesn't need multiple changes.

[flor-de-jasmim]

51. I'm with you on this.

[SMC22307]

71. Because... Snowden, or some such bullshit.

Camp Weathervane never fails to entertain.

[Faux pas]

52. Sneakiness

and dishonesty are NOT attractive qualities in a person, let alone in someone who wants to rule the world.

[Waiting For Everyman]

54. Her motto for workers' training: "don't ask for permission,

ask for forgiveness". It's how she operates. It's intentional and consistent.

[Hiraeth]

57. when has she ever asked for forgiveness ... refresh my memory. serious here. thanks.

[Waiting For Everyman]

60. What she means is,

be sorry after you're caught. As in "I made a mistake" or "If I had it to do over again, I'd do it differently".

I agree, at best it's implied.

[DookDook]

91. Maybe that's why she doesn't want to release the speeches?

I'm sure the theme of the speeches very well could of been: "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness....and a bailout"

Do I need a smile thing?

[Agony]

55. It is really very, very simple… being Secretary of State of the United States of America

and deciding that it is a good idea… OK… to run your email communications on a private server in your home

is too fucking stupid for words.

Hillary does not have the ability to make appropriate, timely decisions to be POTUS.

[basselope]

58. As often as it is in the political world, it's not the scandal...

But, the lying, twisting and spinning that happens AFTER.

You have to wonder how other candidates would handle this?

Bernie wouldn't have gotten into this mess, b/c he would follow the rules.

Trump would likely do the same thing as Clinton, arrogantly choose to use his own private server; however, when confronted, he would just say, "yeah, I did it, I trusted my private server more than some government one" and his voters would cheer him on.

[LAS14]

59. OK. So when what is being said changes, your response changes.

Isn't that what rational people do? Given her experience, she didn't know that the state department was going to say they wouldn't have allowed it. They said it, so she explained. Perfectly reasonable, I'd say.

[Press Virginia]

64. only liars have to change their story. She claimed the SD confirmed her use

of the server was within the rules. Not she thought they confirmed it. Not she thought it was within the rules. It WAS confirmed to be within the rules.
The IG report refutes the claim that was made so she's changed her story to "I thought it was within the rules"

[LAS14]

65. Source?

[Press Virginia]

66. For what? HRC's change of her story?

[LAS14]

67. For Hillary "claiming SD confirmed."

She never did, as far as I know.

[Press Virginia]

74. More than one time

CLINTON: "What I did was allowed. It was allowed by the State Department. The State Department has confirmed that." - AP interview, September 2015

[LAS14]

75. Thanks for the citation.

I've been studying this whole thing for a couple of days now and one thing is clear. The State Department system was incredibly messed up. I don't think Hillary is a liar, for sure. But I do think she gets caught by having to explain changing circumstances in sound bytes. In this case I expect early on someone had, indeed, told her it was "OK," since personal e-mails were definitely OK and private servers hadn't been addressed.

[Press Virginia]

76. The state of the SD system is irrelevant

to what she did

[LAS14]

82. It's very relevant to what she might...

... and might not have been told by individuals at the time she answered the question. Easy to understand for those of us who live in a real world rather than a bubble.

[Press Virginia]

85. She never asked.

[LAS14]

83. Check this out.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-not-scandal-464414

[Press Virginia]

86. Newsweek materially misstates much of the IG report

and ignores most of what it says

[LAS14]

89. Can you cite some mis-statements?

[pdsimdars]

63. And when a few people raised concern about her server they were told to never mention it again

[AzDar]

72. K & R

[HassleCat]

77. Just slow walking.

It's a time honored tradition among politicians. We (the unwashed masses) can't handle the whole truth, all at once.

[dchill]

81. "It was allowed."

I took your wallet while you were sleeping. Nobody told me not to. It was allowed.

[NorthCarolina]

92. She also "thought" wiping her server would permanently erase the email trail.

We all know how that turned out.