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LAS14

(13,749 posts)
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:44 PM May 2016

Just a reminder. Hillary was not investigated by the ...

... State Department. The OIG investigated the department's e-mail/security practices. As I've said elsewhere (thanks again to BeachBumBob), the e-mail flap is like the Whitewater flap is like the Benghazi flap is like the Vince Foster flap is like....

Unfortunately those of you who think these were more than flaps require lots of time and effort to remind you of the complex truth. And you're not interested, as far as I can see.

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Just a reminder. Hillary was not investigated by the ... (Original Post) LAS14 May 2016 OP
Soooo does this mean HRC wasn't lying for the last 15 months Press Virginia May 2016 #1
She wasn't lying. Life is complex. Too complex... LAS14 May 2016 #2
Then why, as of yesterday, did her story change? Press Virginia May 2016 #5
Because of the complexity, I guess. Live and Learn May 2016 #89
The defense of her lies is getting comical Press Virginia May 2016 #90
The world is complex. CanadaexPat May 2016 #10
If you can't send an e-mail from a computer, you definitely shouldn't be Press Virginia May 2016 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow May 2016 #94
She totally lied. Words are complex. Too complex... cui bono May 2016 #13
LAS14 let me give you a clue rock May 2016 #66
Facts like the IG report prompting HRC's new story? Press Virginia May 2016 #74
SMDH... chervilant May 2016 #82
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow May 2016 #95
Indeed, chervilant May 2016 #111
the only people that life is complex for are people who have Exilednight May 2016 #104
Words are obviously too complex for Hillary and her supporters. That much is clear. Autumn May 2016 #117
She was allowed. They knew what she was doing and no one told her to stop. pnwmom May 2016 #21
This scscholar May 2016 #26
Not according to the IG report Press Virginia May 2016 #33
No,, the IG report confirmed that they let her continue using the server scscholar May 2016 #131
That's NOT what the report says. Press Virginia May 2016 #132
Then why did she change her story after the Press Virginia May 2016 #27
Of course it can be both. Originally, she said it was allowed because she THOUGHT pnwmom May 2016 #29
Then you're saying she lied in this quote? Press Virginia May 2016 #32
Kinda like when she said there was no classified and then changed it.... Bob41213 May 2016 #39
If it's not marked classified by the producing agency, then it's not classified. n/t pnwmom May 2016 #43
So if you take a classified memo and retype it without the markings, it's no longer classified? Bob41213 May 2016 #45
There is no evidence that they did that with any other Department's document. pnwmom May 2016 #46
Except the ones they say were classified from the start... Bob41213 May 2016 #52
Know nothings keep trying to sell the "not marked" lie...which is the third version Press Virginia May 2016 #58
But it's the best one because it's technically true... Bob41213 May 2016 #61
It ignores th content of the information and the source derived Press Virginia May 2016 #64
That was the Rethug McCullough's claim based on anonymous sources. pnwmom May 2016 #59
Better email the State Department because apparently they're hosting the RNC talking points now... Bob41213 May 2016 #63
And President Obama is appointing these rabid RWers to do Press Virginia May 2016 #68
So he submitted false information to congress? Do you have evidence of this? Press Virginia May 2016 #67
McCullough hasn't been as fair as Obama expected him to be. pnwmom May 2016 #72
So The affidavits were false? If the information originated in the IC Press Virginia May 2016 #73
There is no evidence that the information originated in the IC. Just that people in the IC pnwmom May 2016 #78
His report to congress says it was IC sourced information Press Virginia May 2016 #79
She didn't have a computer for email so how was she getting classified e-mails in her SCIF? Press Virginia May 2016 #53
With her blackberry.... Bob41213 May 2016 #55
Yep...which ran through the server she claimed had no classified information on it Press Virginia May 2016 #56
Yep. The "truth" seems to be evolving Press Virginia May 2016 #49
Rational human beings change their minds when new information comes to light. pnwmom May 2016 #84
a rational person wouldn't change their story after a year of telling it Press Virginia May 2016 #86
She did THINK it was allowed and the SC confirmed that they never told her to stop. pnwmom May 2016 #87
That's the new story. She previously said the SD confirmed it was allowed Press Virginia May 2016 #88
whats this new information? jonmac511 May 2016 #116
No, I am not. The State Department HAD confirmed that no one told her she couldn't use pnwmom May 2016 #42
She said the State Dept confirmed it was allowed. The IG Press Virginia May 2016 #47
They confirmed that they never objected to it -- which is one of the meanings of the word "allowed." pnwmom May 2016 #50
Yeah, and when people object, they get threatened... Bob41213 May 2016 #57
Especially with the Clintons and the way they twist the language Press Virginia May 2016 #71
That's NOT what she said. She REPEATEDLY said it was allowed under the rules Press Virginia May 2016 #62
It depends what the definition of is is. HooptieWagon May 2016 #83
Poor judgemnet? No advances in technology in the last few deades? The excuses are childish to the... slipslidingaway May 2016 #34
Email was new but it was fully available to Colin Powell. However, the 1950 records law pnwmom May 2016 #107
The 1950 law did not envision email per se - but it DID speak to retaining records. karynnj May 2016 #115
And Hillary retained her work related records and printed out paper copies as the law required. pnwmom May 2016 #123
That fact checks on old true statement.Clinton this week said Kerry using a private account first. karynnj May 2016 #126
Yes, that IS what HRC said for a year, but the IG report found otherwise - that is why newspeople karynnj May 2016 #106
What "otherwise" are you talking about? pnwmom May 2016 #122
Read the report karynnj May 2016 #124
Kerry FOLLOWED her. Rice and Albright didn't send any emails at all. So the relevant pnwmom May 2016 #125
Powell used BOTH an internal system that could be used internally only and a private account karynnj May 2016 #127
Hillary and Powell both used the SCIF classified system for classified documents and they both used pnwmom May 2016 #128
Not excusing Powell for not having the email a decade after he left office karynnj May 2016 #130
But she is being investigated. bobbobbins01 May 2016 #3
The Republicans engineer investigations of every Democratic President. It is what they do. n/t pnwmom May 2016 #22
Uh huh, and the Bernie supporters are the conspiracy theory nuts. bobbobbins01 May 2016 #37
Only the ones who buy into the Rethug conspiracies. n/t pnwmom May 2016 #41
Hillary Clinton is the poor victim again. Hillary Clinton is the poor victim again! Seeinghope May 2016 #80
She deleted her personal emails. Powell deleted all his personal emails AND all of his WORK emails. pnwmom May 2016 #81
Republicans control the FBI? Scootaloo May 2016 #60
A great many things have been investigated. That doesn't mean Arkansas Granny May 2016 #36
Yeah, I'll take my chances with the candidate who has had none. bobbobbins01 May 2016 #38
Hillary is toast Meteor Man May 2016 #4
And then there is the Berned Toast Zambero May 2016 #19
The Blemmings won't understand... Sancho May 2016 #6
Since everyone knows the lemming mass suicide over the cliff thing was a hoax, I wonder if people cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #28
Lemming actually do migrate and sometimes drown... Sancho May 2016 #40
Look up the word "may". cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #44
Are you apologizing? The metaphor is common and makes sense... Sancho May 2016 #54
Yeah. I may apologize. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #65
It's just a way to describe mass insanity....and people jumping on a meme. Sancho May 2016 #98
Do you understand... tonedevil May 2016 #85
Yep..and you just explained why the server location doesn't matter! Sancho May 2016 #92
Thanks Sancho... tonedevil May 2016 #93
Then you know its no problem....because you assume that nothing is secret..it's all public!!! Sancho May 2016 #97
Just a reminder, she is under investigation by the FBI Matt_in_STL May 2016 #7
Hope springs eternal for the arrival of the Indictment Fairy... COLGATE4 May 2016 #51
and the justice department. nt hopemountain May 2016 #69
She knew full well she was breaking the rules Skink May 2016 #8
Powell was the first one, but his infractions were very small scale 99th_Monkey May 2016 #12
How can you possibly know what she was and wasn't conscious of? LAS14 May 2016 #16
Because she told internal State Dept. officials to zip their lips, or hit the road. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #18
His were much worse. He used a private account for all his work emails and then DELETED them pnwmom May 2016 #23
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #100
What are you saying was a lie? i can give you links but i need to know what you think pnwmom May 2016 #108
Powell didn't use a private server. Not the same situation. cui bono May 2016 #15
He did use a private one. The AOL account was on a private commercial server, not the governmental pnwmom May 2016 #25
He didn't erase 30,000 e-mails and withhold all of the e-mails until she had to be asked for them. Seeinghope May 2016 #75
He deleted ALL of his work-related emails. Every one of them. He didn't report how many there were. pnwmom May 2016 #76
Let's pretend what Powell did was worse. How does that make what Hillary did okay? cui bono May 2016 #118
It supports her position, and the State Departments, that she did what her predecessors had done pnwmom May 2016 #120
So you haven't read the report then. cui bono May 2016 #134
Yes, I have. nt pnwmom May 2016 #135
I bet AOL does more than unplug and replug their server when they see a hack attempt. cui bono May 2016 #119
Please show me any law or even regulation that distinguishes between a government pnwmom May 2016 #121
What does that have to do with anything? Hillary did something wrong. Seriously wrong. cui bono May 2016 #133
What do laws and regulations have to do with it? Pretty much everything. n/t pnwmom May 2016 #139
So why does Hillary keep ignoring them? cui bono May 2016 #140
So no apology? cui bono May 2016 #138
KNR Lucinda May 2016 #9
She is currently under investigation by the FBI. cui bono May 2016 #14
And Hillary flunked that investigation. Terribly I might add. NWCorona May 2016 #17
No. That she was investigated by an outside source means it's MORE legitimate, not less. Fawke Em May 2016 #20
The problem isn't as much with the actions, but the lies told since then. basselope May 2016 #24
No one can honestly say madville May 2016 #35
I am honestly saying that I don't think Hillary is a liar. LAS14 May 2016 #112
Then you are honestly wrong. cui bono May 2016 #136
Check this out and please rebut with specifics. LAS14 May 2016 #137
Just a reminder tymorial May 2016 #30
are you sure? It seems like they increase it Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #110
What's amaxing is how many "flaps" hillary gets and her koolaid drinkers still love her Bread and Circus May 2016 #31
I fail to see any relevance in you argument. Avalux May 2016 #48
Complex truth is an oxymoron??? I rest my case. LAS14 May 2016 #114
"complex" is hillary campaign meme hopemountain May 2016 #70
The difference I see HassleCat May 2016 #77
This cannot be repeated enough. Amazing the number of Sanders supporters who think the IG was anotherproletariat May 2016 #91
What Sanders supporters are those, pray tell? bvf May 2016 #96
Actually, it was about records keeping, FOIA & included email practices. & Hillary refused to cooper magical thyme May 2016 #99
Even Sanders said he was tired of hearing about her damn emails. Thinkingabout May 2016 #101
Yes! TeacherB87 May 2016 #102
Rec for the sub-thread in which a Hillary apoligist's "logic" is exposed as a distorted pretzel. Scuba May 2016 #103
seems as though it's you who is dismissing the truth. smiley May 2016 #105
the bigger point is that Trump will her destroy her with this issue, and she can't nuance it away Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #109
They do not care they were "flaps" only looking for a gotcha because their candidate too weak to win seabeyond May 2016 #113
Just a reminder. Hillary is being investigated by the FBI. Vinca May 2016 #129
 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
1. Soooo does this mean HRC wasn't lying for the last 15 months
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:46 PM
May 2016

about how she complied with the rules and what she did was allowed by the SD?

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
5. Then why, as of yesterday, did her story change?
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:50 PM
May 2016

Previously it was allowed by the SD and all above board....as of yesterday she only THOUGHT it was allowed.

"What I did was allowed. It was allowed by the State Department. The State Department has confirmed that." - AP interview, September.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
11. If you can't send an e-mail from a computer, you definitely shouldn't be
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:00 PM
May 2016

leading anything more complex than Windows Outlook is

Response to Press Virginia (Reply #11)

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
13. She totally lied. Words are complex. Too complex...
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:05 PM
May 2016

... for you Hillary idolizers and apologists.

.

rock

(13,218 posts)
66. LAS14 let me give you a clue
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:16 PM
May 2016

Facts and truths don't mean anything to the BSers that are loud-mouthed, obnoxious, immature, and cannot accept reality. and are undoubtedly the ones that will respond to you (the rest of the supporters are adults but they're quiet and not very talkative). My point is every question you answer, they just make up more crap to ask you.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
74. Facts like the IG report prompting HRC's new story?
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:44 PM
May 2016

Her story changed after the report was released. The truth doesn't change. Lies change.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
82. SMDH...
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:03 AM
May 2016

Almost two-thirds of US citizens associate the word "liar" with Hi11ary Clinton. It's disingenuous to assert "life's too complex" in an effort to deny that she lies.

BTW, you are now on my IL, so please don't bother to post any more of your condescending drivel.

Response to chervilant (Reply #82)

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
111. Indeed,
Sun May 29, 2016, 11:02 AM
May 2016

and too many Hi11ary supporters aver that this FBI investigation is a "right-wing attack," as though it is not a measure of her unsuitable battle to "win" this race, like it's a big game.

I am disgusted by this.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
104. the only people that life is complex for are people who have
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:49 AM
May 2016

To invent scenarios and create lies and then keep up with those lies.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
21. She was allowed. They knew what she was doing and no one told her to stop.
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:40 PM
May 2016

Because everyone knew that no Secretary before her had ever used a .gov account, and that Powell had exclusively used a private account and there was nothing in the 1950 public records act, the applicable Federal Records Act, that prevented them from doing so. It was only in 2014 that the law was changed -- after she left office.

They "allowed" her in that they made no attempt to hinder her.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
131. No,, the IG report confirmed that they let her continue using the server
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:59 PM
May 2016

They're going back after the fact and are now mad at themselves about allowing her to continue.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
27. Then why did she change her story after the
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:49 PM
May 2016

IG said it would not have been allowed had she requested authorization to do what she did?

She went from "it was allowed" to "I thought it was allowed".

It can't be both

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
29. Of course it can be both. Originally, she said it was allowed because she THOUGHT
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:55 PM
May 2016

it was allowed -- because that's how it had been done in earlier administrations under the same 1950 public records law that applied to her. And then others showed her that it hadn't been officially permitted, and so she said she had "thought it was allowed." Mistakenly.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
32. Then you're saying she lied in this quote?
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:01 PM
May 2016

"What I did was allowed. It was allowed by the State Department. The State Department has confirmed that." - AP interview, September.

Bob41213

(491 posts)
39. Kinda like when she said there was no classified and then changed it....
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:23 PM
May 2016

to nothing was marked classified....

Bob41213

(491 posts)
45. So if you take a classified memo and retype it without the markings, it's no longer classified?
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:40 PM
May 2016

Good to know. Might want to tell the State Dept that because they're under the impression Hillary had classified info at the time it was sent.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
46. There is no evidence that they did that with any other Department's document.
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:44 PM
May 2016

However, within her own Department, Hillary had full authority to declassify any document at any time.

And, except for retroactively classified emails, the State department has NEVER said that Hillary sent classified info except on her SCIF secure classified system.

Bob41213

(491 posts)
52. Except the ones they say were classified from the start...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:51 PM
May 2016

This says there are emails that were classified and NOT retroactively classified.

The IC IG found four emails containing classified IC-derived information in a limited sample of
40 emails of the 30,000 emails provided by former Secretary Clinton
. The four emails, which
have not been released through the State FOIA process, did not contain classification markings
and/or dissemination controls.
These emails were not retroactively classified by the State
Department; rather these emails contained classified information when they were generated
and, according to IC classification officials, that information remains classified today.
This
classified information should never have been transmitted via an unclassified personal system.

https://oig.state.gov/system/files/statement_of_the_icig_and_oig_regarding_review_of_clintons_emails_july_24_2015.pdf

Bob41213

(491 posts)
61. But it's the best one because it's technically true...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
May 2016

A complete pile of crap, but technically true... Well except for the ones that Sid sent her that were marked classified.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
64. It ignores th content of the information and the source derived
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:59 PM
May 2016

that's why her NDA specifically says classified information may be marked or unmarked

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
59. That was the Rethug McCullough's claim based on anonymous sources.
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
May 2016

There is no reason to trust anything he says on the subject.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
67. So he submitted false information to congress? Do you have evidence of this?
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:17 PM
May 2016

Why would the president put a RW partisan in as IC IG?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
72. McCullough hasn't been as fair as Obama expected him to be.
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:29 PM
May 2016
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/12/myths-and-facts-on-hillary-clintons-email-and-r/204913

He acknowledges that none of the emails were marked classified, but it is only his OPINION that those four should have been classified. Different agencies had different standards for what should be classified -- and Intelligence used different standards than State. Overall, the head of the national Archives has said the problem in government is OVER-classification, with the large of majority of classified materials not deserving that classification.

Just because someone in one agency disagrees with Hillary's assessment doesn't mean he was correct. It just means he would have done it differently in his agency.
 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
73. So The affidavits were false? If the information originated in the IC
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:42 PM
May 2016

they would be the authority on whether it was classified or not. And, according to his report to congress, the information was classified at the time.

Media Matters has neither seen the information nor the affidavits. And what is "fair" supposed to mean? Either he is competently performing his job or he isn't.
Either he lied to congress and submitted perjured affidavits from IC reviewers or he didn't.
Your opinion of him has no relevance.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
78. There is no evidence that the information originated in the IC. Just that people in the IC
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:54 PM
May 2016

looked at it and decided it should be classified.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
53. She didn't have a computer for email so how was she getting classified e-mails in her SCIF?
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:51 PM
May 2016

she had no access to the SD email system. She had no computer to access secure e-mails.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
49. Yep. The "truth" seems to be evolving
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:47 PM
May 2016

as quickly as information to contradict the last "truth" comes to light.

Only liars change their stories

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
84. Rational human beings change their minds when new information comes to light.
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:12 AM
May 2016

Irrational people cling to their original views no matter what new information they are given.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
86. a rational person wouldn't change their story after a year of telling it
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:21 AM
May 2016

unless the story was contradicted by facts.
The TRUTH doesn't change.
She said her set up was allowed and the SD had confirmed it. That was either the truth or it was not the truth.
Based on the fact she's now changed her story, I'd say her previous story wasn't the truth.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
87. She did THINK it was allowed and the SC confirmed that they never told her to stop.
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:25 AM
May 2016

Later, she acknowledged that she'd subsequently learned that officially it was against the rules, although those rules weren't being enforced. And had never been.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
88. That's the new story. She previously said the SD confirmed it was allowed
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:27 AM
May 2016

Confirmation isn't a passive action

jonmac511

(46 posts)
116. whats this new information?
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:36 PM
May 2016

Finding out that it has been discovered one lied isn't considered new information. She broke rules that were already in place when she began lying. The only thing that has changed is her version of the story. She can't say she thought it was OK after saying that the SD had already approved it. By saying it was approved, she nullifies the ignorance option.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
42. No, I am not. The State Department HAD confirmed that no one told her she couldn't use
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:29 PM
May 2016

a non .gov account. And that neither the President nor anyone else voiced an objection to her while she was SoS -- even though ANYONE could see that she wasn't emailing from a .gov account.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
47. She said the State Dept confirmed it was allowed. The IG
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:45 PM
May 2016

says it was not have been allowed.

HRC changed her story since the release of the IG report.
People who tell the truth don't need to change their story

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
50. They confirmed that they never objected to it -- which is one of the meanings of the word "allowed."
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:47 PM
May 2016

"Allowed" doesn't have to mean directly permitted -- it can mean "not hindered." Or "not objected to."

They confirmed that they were aware that she was using it and they didn't try to stop her. That means they allowed her to do it.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
62. That's NOT what she said. She REPEATEDLY said it was allowed under the rules
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:58 PM
May 2016

She said the SD confirmed this. The IG says it was not within the rules.
Now Hillary changes her story to "I thought it allowed"

Either the SD confirmed it or they didnt

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
34. Poor judgemnet? No advances in technology in the last few deades? The excuses are childish to the...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:02 PM
May 2016

extreme!



pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
107. Email was new but it was fully available to Colin Powell. However, the 1950 records law
Sun May 29, 2016, 10:15 AM
May 2016

of course hadn't envisioned it, so the law was finally modified in 2014 to specifically include it.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
115. The 1950 law did not envision email per se - but it DID speak to retaining records.
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:20 PM
May 2016

Obviously, as it it became used more, someone should have have asked for a definitive ruling. There actually WERE guidelines that emails should be retained and archived.

HRC is obviously sensitive to whether she should have considered this or she would not have lied to say that Kerry did the same thing when he became SoS. He didn't - he did the opposite in fact - taking a government account and insuring that any emails that he got on other accounts were sent to the SD and archived.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
123. And Hillary retained her work related records and printed out paper copies as the law required.
Sun May 29, 2016, 03:17 PM
May 2016

Colin Powell deleted his work related emails when he left office and was able to produce nothing when the State Department requested.

And she didn't lie about Senator Kerry. She said he was the first SoS to use the .gov accounts, and he was.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/23/hillary-clinton/clinton-says-john-kerry-was-first-secretary-state-/

Westmoreland: If they were gathering emails, you had to tell them that you had a private server when you were there.

Clinton: Well, the -- the server is not the point, it's the account. And I made it a practice to send emails that were work-related to people on their government accounts. In fact, you know, Secretary Kerry is the first secretary of state to rely primarily on a government account.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
126. That fact checks on old true statement.Clinton this week said Kerry using a private account first.
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:11 PM
May 2016

In fact, he immediately got a .gov account.

She RETAINED the information, but did not archive it in a timely manner. NONE of it went to the State Department until late 2014 -- when it was 2 to 6 years old ... and then only after the SD demanded she do so. Not to mention, she sorted out what she termed private.

As to sending everything to the public email accounts, the report says this is not an appropriate way to do it. Not to mention, note that ALL of the Powell emails sent on private email were because the then SD system could ONLY be used for internal emails -- for which he used the internal system.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
106. Yes, that IS what HRC said for a year, but the IG report found otherwise - that is why newspeople
Sun May 29, 2016, 09:04 AM
May 2016

are questioning HRC's comments -- not the report.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
124. Read the report
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:00 PM
May 2016

The report details what happened under every Secretary of State. It is not true that all of them did just what HRC did. She and Colin Powell alone can be said to have been criticized in the report. Albright, Rice and Kerry weren't.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
125. Kerry FOLLOWED her. Rice and Albright didn't send any emails at all. So the relevant
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:10 PM
May 2016

comparison is Colin Powell, who exclusively used his personal email account for work-related emails, and deleted them all when he left office.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
127. Powell used BOTH an internal system that could be used internally only and a private account
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:22 PM
May 2016

for emails to people outside the SD. The line and the computer were both from the State Department's IT organization and it was Very public that he was using email. He wanted it public to set an example. Where he was faulted was that his team did not retain the emails sent this way. A Powell aide said that she was advised - by a person who she does not remember the name of - that there was no need to.

Not to mention she used the PLURAL when speaking of predecessors - when just one was even close to relevant.

I KNOW Kerry followed her and I suspect the reason HRC tried to give the impression in the interview with Blitzer herself and the claims of her surrogates on other shows that he initially did the same thing was to make her own practice seem less an outlier. However, the practice changed when the Secretary changed. There is no gap where Kerry exclusively used either private email much less a private server.

She needs to stop making excuses and take responsibility and to commit to following the type of practices the IG has recommended and which Kerry implemented at the SD and elsewhere in her administration.

Claiming that Powell did it too will not get her past this politically. All I can hope is that enough people thing Trump is so beyond awful that she wins -- in spite of her self inflicted problems.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
128. Hillary and Powell both used the SCIF classified system for classified documents and they both used
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

private emails for non-classified emails.

And Hillary, unlike Powell, was able to turn her emails over to the State Department when they asked for them. Powell just deleted his.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
130. Not excusing Powell for not having the email a decade after he left office
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:37 PM
May 2016

My point was he did use the INTERNAL ONLY unclassified system. When Powell was Secretary, the internal system could not access the outside world.

Not to mention, the report did fault Powell as well as Clinton.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
37. Uh huh, and the Bernie supporters are the conspiracy theory nuts.
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:17 PM
May 2016

Where does the Illuminati fit in this?

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
80. Hillary Clinton is the poor victim again. Hillary Clinton is the poor victim again!
Sun May 29, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

I am so sick of hearing this from people who just want to point fingers at the Republicans for every thing that Hillary Clinton does. Even Obama has a right leaning IG now? The SD is at fault.
.the Republicans investigate every Republican President. Hillary Clinton didn't have a computer to work on......on and on and on it goes. The video of her lies for 13 minutes was spliced together to make it look like she lied.

There comes a time when you just have to admit that you support a candidate that is untruthful, that doesn't play by the rules, will say what she needs to say to get elected, has several different sides to her personality and is somewhat paranoid.

All of this explaining away of what happened with the e-mail situation is pathetic and is just desperation at this point. Hillary Clinton bypassed the server in the SD and used her unsecured server in her private residence and deleted 30,000 pages of e-mails. She has dodged questions and changed answers. She continued to use Sid as an advisor even though the Obama WH told her not to use him as her advisor. Sid was being paid six figures by The Clinton Foundation. Of course Hillary Clinton supporters don't mind if Hillary Clinton snuck behind President Obama's back and disobeyed the White House decision about Sid. National Security or not Hillary Clinton was going to do what she was going to do......

Her privacy trumped the security of our country's privacy.

If she had this server installed in her home, why not use it exclusively for her personal emails? It is all so bogus.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
81. She deleted her personal emails. Powell deleted all his personal emails AND all of his WORK emails.
Sun May 29, 2016, 12:21 AM
May 2016

When they were both asked to supply emails to State, Powell said he deleted them all when he left office. Hillary turned over 55,000 pages on paper -- just as the 1950's law required.

And Hillary had every right to use her judgment deciding which emails were work related and which were personal. People with 2 accounts (one .gov and one personal) make that judgment BEFORE they send any email. She made hers AFTER. In both cases, the staffers are trusted to make the judgment themselves, either before or after they produce an email.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
60. Republicans control the FBI?
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
May 2016

Or is this just another case of Clinton supporters declaring everything and anything that doesn't go her way to be "right wing conspiracy"?

Arkansas Granny

(31,484 posts)
36. A great many things have been investigated. That doesn't mean
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:15 PM
May 2016

there was any wrongdoing. Maybe you remember Whitewater, Benghazi, Travelgate, etc.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
38. Yeah, I'll take my chances with the candidate who has had none.
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:18 PM
May 2016

Eventually one is going to stick, and it looks like this is it.

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
19. And then there is the Berned Toast
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:43 PM
May 2016

A spirited campaign, but being a few million votes short, not a prayer.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
6. The Blemmings won't understand...
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:52 PM
May 2016

They are too focused on following the CT as they go over the cliff and drown!

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
28. Since everyone knows the lemming mass suicide over the cliff thing was a hoax, I wonder if people
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:54 PM
May 2016

know how stupid it makes them look to use the analogy.

Fucking stupid indeed.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
40. Lemming actually do migrate and sometimes drown...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:24 PM
May 2016

look it up and don't be so stupid....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

It is in fact not a mass suicide but the result of their migratory behavior. Driven by strong biological urges, some species of lemmings may migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. In such cases, many may drown if the body of water is so wide as to stretch their physical capability to the limit.

Because of their association with this odd behavior, lemming "suicide" is a frequently used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences.


Meanwhile, Blemmings continue to go unquestioningly with popular opinion....as obvious in this case of Hillary hate. BTW, the analog also holds because lemmings are ill-tempered and aggressive...just like Blemmings.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
54. Are you apologizing? The metaphor is common and makes sense...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:52 PM
May 2016

Blemmings are attacking and acting stupid to think that years after leaving office a Sec. of State will be prosecuted because she used a Blackberry...that really is as crazy as Obama's birth certificate!

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
98. It's just a way to describe mass insanity....and people jumping on a meme.
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:56 AM
May 2016

This entire email thing is created by the RW, and promoted on DU by Hillary Haters. Chances are that a bunch of the instigators are paid operatives/trolls.

I'm amazed that so many go crazy about "breaking the law" - just like "Obama was born in Africa". It seems obvious that any Secretary of State will use email, phones, and likely a few paper documents too!!

They all had to do that a part of the job. It really doesn't matter how secure all that pile of work is when it's subject to FOIA and routine!! Hillary could have sent smoke signals from a tower or talked on a radio show if she wanted - as long as she achieved her work. She was the only one who seemed to actually do that as far back as the last 3-4 SoSs.

The rush to condemn and claim there was a hugh crime is nuts. Has any SoS in the last couple decades been prosecuted? After Colin Powell and Condi Rice and their screw ups, it's had to imagine Hillary's 55,000 emails as a crime!

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
85. Do you understand...
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:20 AM
May 2016

that all BlackBerry traffic goes through their servers in Canada? If you think hard you might be able to come up with an idea why that is a problem.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
92. Yep..and you just explained why the server location doesn't matter!
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:37 AM
May 2016

The phone could always be hacked! So Hillary never put stuff marked secret on email or the BB!

All that secret stuff was on a closed system. Even then the server was all backed up by Google and McAfee.

BTW, she also had encryption available, but won't discuss it in public...her IT guy worked for a leading encryption company. It's quite likely she could encrypt a Personal message and make it hard or impossible for even some governments to see it! That's probably why the FBI wanted to talk to her IT guy! They could read the server but it was gibberish without the software and keys.

They aren't going to tell you and me....which is why even a hacked message could be unreadable without the key...and passwords didn't matter. Get it now?

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
93. Thanks Sancho...
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:52 AM
May 2016

I have no idea how these things work. I've only installed, configured, and maintained half a dozen BlackBerry servers. I've only done the same for well over 100 Exchange servers. I don't know own anything about email thank you so much for explaining it for me. Can you give me your take on SMTP servers and their relation to the A and the MX records? An expert like you has no doubt looked into who owned those records for clintonmail.com. Please help me get why US Secretary of State email going though servers in a foreign country isn't a problem.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
97. Then you know its no problem....because you assume that nothing is secret..it's all public!!!
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:34 AM
May 2016

Just like the 55,000 published emails! It's all public - subject to FOIA - and ASSUMED that it's being read by others.
Like talking in a room full of people!! Don't you get it??

There was no intention of anything going through that email being classified. If it was classified, then it was put on an entirely different, closed system. Everyone knows that a handful of the 55,000 were reclassified emails (after the fact) were not distributed under FOIA, mostly because of things that occurred between the original email and today's time.

It doesn't matter what technology you use or what phone you used - it's assumed that it's PUBLIC! If it's classified (and the government usually over-classifies), then it didn't go on email or the phone!!

So all your "expert experience" misses the point.

This week's Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-not-scandal-464414

Then there is the issue of security. The one thing that seems clear from the report is that Clinton’s email system was more secure than the one at the State Department. Before delving into that, though, one of the biggest misconceptions about this email “scandal” has to be dispelled: Neither Clinton nor any other senior official cleared for dealing with classified information has only one email system. One is used for workaday business—memos, drafts, information to department employees, questions and answers between individuals—and that is the type used by Clinton, Powell, and Rice’s senior staff that has been reviewed by the inspector general. The second email system, for materials designated as classified, has nothing to do with this controversy. It uses a highly restricted, compartmented information facility, or what is known in intelligence circles as a SCIF. Most senior officials who deal with classified information have a SCIF in their offices and their homes guarded 24 hours a day by physical and technical security teams. In other words, this widely held belief that Clinton and Powell were emailing information classified as top-secret on personal accounts is hooey. (Yes, some emails not marked as classified have been retroactively deemed as such; this happens all the time.)

As for the department’s unclassified system, the inspector general's report demonstrates that it was horribly insecure, and that hackers obtained terabytes worth of documents out of it; on the other hand, Clinton’s email system was quite secure and, when evidence emerged that someone was trying to hack in, the security officer overseeing the server immediately shut it down, then notified the relevant officials at State. In other words, while boxcars of documents were digitally pulled out of the agency, there is no evidence a single email was snagged out of Clinton’s server. So it could be the Clinton arrangement didn’t follow the security procedures laid out in the federal regulations—the inspector general did not reach a conclusion as to whether it did or not—but, as often happens, private security contractors did a better job than the government.

Skink

(10,122 posts)
8. She knew full well she was breaking the rules
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:54 PM
May 2016

Powell and company got away with it. Since that time it was made clear what not to do.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
12. Powell was the first one, but his infractions were very small scale
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:03 PM
May 2016

compared to Hillary's full-bore conscious rule breakage.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
18. Because she told internal State Dept. officials to zip their lips, or hit the road.
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:21 PM
May 2016

When State officials called Hillary on the email thing, her reply was ...
"I don't want to hear about this ever again" (paraphrase)

Now that's some hubris.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
23. His were much worse. He used a private account for all his work emails and then DELETED them
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:43 PM
May 2016

when left office. When the State Department asked for them, he said he couldn't comply -- even though the law required that he do so.

Hillary did. She produced the 55,000 paper copies of documents that the law required.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
108. What are you saying was a lie? i can give you links but i need to know what you think
Sun May 29, 2016, 10:17 AM
May 2016

wasn't factual.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. He did use a private one. The AOL account was on a private commercial server, not the governmental
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:46 PM
May 2016

server that the 2014 amendment to the law requires.

But he was allowed to do that, just as Hillary was allowed, under the 1950 law they were working under.

The important difference between them is that he destroyed all his work related emails when he left office. She preserved hers and, upon request, produced the 55,000 paper copies that the law requires.

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
75. He didn't erase 30,000 e-mails and withhold all of the e-mails until she had to be asked for them.
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:47 PM
May 2016

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
76. He deleted ALL of his work-related emails. Every one of them. He didn't report how many there were.
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:49 PM
May 2016

When he was asked to produce them -- at the same time she was -- he said he didn't have ANY because he had deleted them ALL when he left State.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
118. Let's pretend what Powell did was worse. How does that make what Hillary did okay?
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:29 PM
May 2016

That's a schoolchildren's excuse of pointing at someone else and saying "but they did it too".

.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
120. It supports her position, and the State Departments, that she did what her predecessors had done
Sun May 29, 2016, 03:09 PM
May 2016

and that no one told her not to.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
119. I bet AOL does more than unplug and replug their server when they see a hack attempt.
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016

You aren't helping her any with your flawed arguments.

.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
121. Please show me any law or even regulation that distinguishes between a government
Sun May 29, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

employee using a private personal server vs. a private AOL or other commercial server (as opposed to the .gov server.)

Any law or regulation past or present.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
133. What does that have to do with anything? Hillary did something wrong. Seriously wrong.
Sun May 29, 2016, 10:11 PM
May 2016

Deal with it.

p.s. Did you notice how I didn't ask you why you were bringing a BLACK man into this? Saying a BLACK man had done something wrong? That you were defending a WHITE woman but incriminating a BLACK man? See how race doesn't always matter?

I guess I forgot I didn't want to engage with anyone who tried to paint me as a racist like you have in the past. Maybe I'll stop now. So don't be surprised if I don't respond again since I don't recall getting an apology.

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
140. So why does Hillary keep ignoring them?
Mon May 30, 2016, 04:53 PM
May 2016

You know I can see the time stamp of your reply, right?

So, no, you don't care that you exploited racism and tried to paint me and others as a racist the other day. You stand by that shameful and disgusting behavior.

Got it.

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
138. So no apology?
Mon May 30, 2016, 04:43 PM
May 2016

I know you've been replying to people, you replied to another of my posts. So do you not think you owe me and others an apology for trying to paint us as racist the other day? I know you got 2 hides for it and couldn't respond in that thread, but I never got a pm nor a reply to the above post of mine that replied to this post of yours.

Oversight? Or do you think it's okay to run around race baiting in an attempt to try to paint someone as a racist? In my book that's an extremely dishonorable way to behave. And as I pointed out in my other reply, we are discussing a black man and a white woman in this thread and you brought up a black man without mentioning his race. Why is that? Could it be that race needn't have been mentioned in that other OP? Could it be that the ONLY reason it was brought up, by YOU, is that you were exploiting racism and trying to use it to paint me and others as racist? It certainly is a pattern with Hillary supporters.

You always try to sound so reasonable, even when you are arguing a losing battle, but that was way over the top and you really should apologize. That behavior was despicable. Maybe you have some excuse for it, well not an excuse, but maybe something was going on that made you become irrational, I don't know. But the fact that you haven't apologized shows what kind of character you actally have, and it's not pretty. Sadly, if you did apologize now it would ring hollow. Especially because you kept going on and on about it that day after people called you on it.

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
14. She is currently under investigation by the FBI.
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:07 PM
May 2016

And the OIG found her to have committed some very serious infractions as well as proving that she has been lying about this for a long time now.

So no, this is not Benghazi or any other made up shit. This is real. Take the blinders off.

.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
24. The problem isn't as much with the actions, but the lies told since then.
Sat May 28, 2016, 09:44 PM
May 2016

She just got torn to shreds in the latest report.

madville

(7,397 posts)
35. No one can honestly say
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:12 PM
May 2016

They don't think Hillary is a liar. I think it's pathological with her, she may actually believe her own lies like they are the truth.

It's obvious that she's dishonest, her surrogates that push her lies have to know that when they give interviews and hit the talk shows. They're all liars, or at least extremely gullible and dumb (which I doubt).

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
48. I fail to see any relevance in you argument.
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:46 PM
May 2016

What exactly IS complex truth anyway? I believe you've coined an oxymoron. Fitting, considering who you're defending.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
77. The difference I see
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:53 PM
May 2016

Democrats are balking at voting for Clinton because of the email flap. Some of them think it indicates incompetence. Others think it points to dishonesty. The Vince Foster thing was obviously ludicrous, and very few people ever thought it amounted to anything. The Benghazi flap was revealed as a fraud when people realized Issa was dripping the information out a little at a time, selectively revealing culling facts. At this stage, the email flap looks different because there is an FBI inquiry, not a tabloid style "inquiry" by the National Enquirer. If the FBI concludes there is no cause for serious concern, it's over, and no amount of Republican squawking and howling will keep it alive. If the FBI recommends something else, it may have a second life.

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
91. This cannot be repeated enough. Amazing the number of Sanders supporters who think the IG was
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:31 AM
May 2016

investigating Hillary.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
96. What Sanders supporters are those, pray tell?
Sun May 29, 2016, 04:54 AM
May 2016
The State Department had no permanent inspector general—the lead watchdog charged with uncovering misconduct and waste—during Hillary Clinton’s entire tenure as secretary...


Emphasis mine.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/state-department-lacked-top-watchdog-during-hillary-clinton-tenure-1427239813
 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
99. Actually, it was about records keeping, FOIA & included email practices. & Hillary refused to cooper
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:17 AM
May 2016

ate because she answered all the questions they could possibly need answered in her testimony in front of the Benghazi committee.

Because, you know, the Benghazi committee was all about records keeping, FOIA and email practices at State, as opposed to events surrounding Benghazi.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
103. Rec for the sub-thread in which a Hillary apoligist's "logic" is exposed as a distorted pretzel.
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:41 AM
May 2016

Apparently, it's not a lie if Hillary says it, even if it's a lie. It's just too complex for us simpletons.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
113. They do not care they were "flaps" only looking for a gotcha because their candidate too weak to win
Sun May 29, 2016, 11:59 AM
May 2016

any other way.

Vinca

(50,172 posts)
129. Just a reminder. Hillary is being investigated by the FBI.
Sun May 29, 2016, 05:33 PM
May 2016

You better hope the 4th of July news drop isn't as damaging as the OIG's.

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