If you are Bernie or Bust you are no hero!

[hrmjustin]

Nor should you be proud of yourself!

I understand your differences on policies with Hillary and understand thst some of you are principled on that. Just some of you.

But if you are Bernie or Bust you only help Trump.

[Thinkingabout]

1. No never Trump for me. Who knows what he stands for, it changes every sentence.

He jumps and has his goofy talk and it is never about his agenda. Not qualified to be president.

[Garrett78]

2. If they didn't vote for Obama, their impact won't be felt.

Especially if they don't reside in a swing state.

[davidn3600]

10. I do.

I live in a big swing state....Florida. And I voted for Obama twice.

I don't support Hillary.

Go ahead and piss off enough people like me and watch what happens. Gore lost Florida by 537 votes. That's all it takes.

[Garrett78]

16. A Clinton Admin will operate in the same fashion as the Obama Admin has.

Unforeseen events could alter the trajectory, of course, but they're cut from the same cloth policy-wise.

I'm not looking to piss anyone off. I'm just pointing out that people who didn't vote for Obama (and aren't going to vote for Trump) won't have much impact on Clinton's chances.

Ultimately, I think most Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton in November. I've seen polls that suggest as many as 1/3rd won't, but I suspect that number will come down somewhat in the months to come.

[Exilednight]

44. Obama and Hillary are not cut from the same cloth. I'd you really

Delve into the polls you will find that the Obama coalition is not turning out to vote in this primary. This has been true in past elections like the midterms when Obama was not on the ticket.

Obama ran to the left of Hillary and has accomplished many great things that we would not have with a Hillary presidency. Her term as SoS was meh at best, and I was surprised Obama picked her considering how much they differed on policy.

When Kerry became SoS it seems that the Obama doctrine was truly implemented and started producing results like Iran.

Hillary's time as SoS will always be marred, rightly or wrongly, by incidents like Benghazi and failure to produce any long-term peace agreements like Kerry did with Iran.

[Garrett78]

66. Your perception of their policy differences doesn't jibe with reality.

And Clinton is well on her way to the nomination precisely because of the Obama Coalition. That's why she's winning in so many of the places where Obama won in the 2008 primary.

[Exilednight]

70. she's not winning with the Obama coalition because the

Obama coalition is not voting. Polls have proven that the Obama coalition is staying home. The fact that she has the same number of votes as in 2008proves they aren't voting. If they were, and if they were voting for Hillary she would be killing Sanders and have a 50 state sweep.

[Garrett78]

73. You're obviously wrong, as evidenced by her winning where Obama won in the 2008 primary.

Your logic is deeply flawed. Sanders has been reasonably successful because of caucuses and because it's been a 2-person race almost the whole time (it stands to reason that the alternative to the establishment candidate is going to get a lot of votes). A Gore vs. Bradley scenario is not likely to occur in today's climate.

And you'll notice Sanders is most successful where Clinton won in 2008, precisely because Clinton is focused on winning where she lost in 2008. And that's exactly what she's done. How? By having the support of POC and women.

[Exilednight]

82. you obviously didn't pay attention to 2008.

[jillan]

11. I did vote for Obama twice. This assumption that Bernie supporters on DU did not vote for Obama

is preposterous.

[Garrett78]

14. I didn't make any assumption.

I said that if BoBers didn't vote for Obama, their not voting for Clinton won't have an impact. That is all.

The pro-Obama and anti-Clinton folks don't make much sense. A Clinton Administration would likely be an extension of the Obama Administration. People may confuse style with substance or make too much of personality differences. Clinton and Obama are cut from the same cloth, policy-wise.

[Major Hogwash]

27. It's painfully obvious by now to everyone here that Obama's coalition has dispersed . . .

. . . to the four corners of the earth.

Nowadays there are people who support Bernie, and there are those that support Hillary.
But, the question remains . . why would someone who supported Obama then, support Hillary now?
Another way to put it . . if she wasn't good enough to beat Obama back then, why do they believe that she is good enough to beat Bernie now?

Not much of a question, to get real about it.
I think that most of the mud being slung here at Bernie at DU is about some people who want to tear down DU if Hillary is not the nominee this time around.

Some of them are angry about Bernie refusing to drop out of the race.
And some of them are growing more desperate each day about the news that comes out every day about the FBI situation that Hillary put herself in, long before she started campaigning this time around.

I suspect that some of them may even resort to throwing chairs . . . eventually.

[lovemydog]

31. To answer your question: 'why would someone

who supported Obama then, support Hillary now?'

I think she is the most likely to preserve and expand upon the liberal accomplishments of the Obama Administration.

She has influence with many members in Congress to do so as well. They are supporting her in droves because they feel they can accomplish these things.

I feel Clinton is most likely to help accomplish liberal goals ranging from increasing the federal minimum wage to protecting and improving the Affordable Care Act to preserving and strengthening Planned Parenthood and appointing liberal Justices to the Supreme Court.

Hope you're enjoying a good weekend.

[SamKnause]

26. I live in the swing state of Ohio.

I voted for Obama.

I do not support Hillary.

[Garrett78]

68. Why? Policy-wise, there's nary a difference.

[SheilaT]

3. Here's the problem: Hillary does NOT represent me.

She lies and lies. She votes for war. She sends drones and soldiers in to kill, including many women and children, and yet her supporters extol her as a champion of those groups. Excuse me?

Until Hillary adopts policies I really can embrace, I cannot and I will not vote for her.

Please do not blame the election of Trump on me. It will totally be on Hillary for being so awful a candidate.

Remember, that voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. And I'm done with that.

[hrmjustin]

4. I lost a cousin in the war in 2005 and protested her office in 2002 for her vote.

I am still voting for her.

[SheilaT]

5. That's your decision.

Although if you think a war-mongering President, given the death of your cousin, is still worthy of your vote, I sort of wonder exactly what it would take for you to oppose her. Or even where exactly your priorities are.

I'm sort of reminded of the Jews who remained in Berlin throughout WWII, who apparently thought they were somehow exempt from what was going on all around them.

Shall we discuss the definition of cognitive dissonance?

[hrmjustin]

7. I will bite my tongue after your post.

[grossproffit]

12. +1

[tazkcmo]

46. Now THAT took strength.

hrmjustin, we have sparred several times and obviously disagree on many things but I want to be on record that this display of personal strength by you is amazing. I couldn't do it.

[COLGATE4]

53. My hat is off to you.

[Peacetrain]

83. So sorry for your loss..

[hrmjustin]

84. Thank you very much.

[joshcryer]

25. Stay classy.

[tazkcmo]

48. Disgusting.

While I may agree with you on many fronts and issues, there's a time and a place and a way to make our points and your post failed in each and every way. After your display of insensitivity using the death of a fellow DUers cousin to try and convince them to see things your way you then slur the Jewish population of Berlin that was lucky enough not to be tortured in a concentration camp as having cognitive dissonance.

Ick.

[SheilaT]

60. The fact that Jews in Berlin thought that they would miraculously

survive is not a slur. It's a fact. Facts are not slurs.

In fact, I'm currently reading a book about Hitler and the murder of Jews and many others in WWII, and it's extremely enlightening. What Hitler believed went far beyond basic anti-Semitism run amok. It was based completely in a view that Jews weren't human at all, and completely deserved to die. That they were at the heart of all that was wrong with Western Civilization. In fact, after WWI, he decided that it was Jews everywhere who controlled everything, and fully intended to systematically starve them. Maybe allow some of them to relocate to Siberia or Madagascar, but letting them starve was all but front and center to his policy.

He took the European conquest of North America as a role model, of how civilized races were entitled to sweep away indigenous people who had no right to exist.

He also thought that the Soviet system was completely dominated by Jews, completely unaware of the immense and brutal anti-Semitism that had existed in Czarist times.

I actually know my history.

The book is Black Earth, the Holocaust as History and Warning by Timothy Snyder.

[DrDan]

51. wow . . . just wow

disgusting

[tazkcmo]

45. Sorry for your loss

Too many cousins, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, moms and dads have been lost in the last decade...I'm sorry your cousin was one, too. Again, my sincere condolences.

[hrmjustin]

62. Thank you very much.

[Tal Vez]

8. I'm sure that no one will blame you for any election result.

I am going to vote for the Democratic nominee again this year just like I have in the last 11 presidential elections. I live in California so in a way, I am just an observer. If Trump wins in California, it will be 50 states to 0. As Californians, our votes don't count much in presidential elections. When my Republican friends start bragging on Trump, I tell them, "Well, if you want Trump to win here in California, you'd best get out there and do some campaigning because you're way behind and you're not going anywhere with me."

I'm confident that you'll do the right thing.

[SheilaT]

23. Thank you.

I'm getting a bit tired of those who are pro-actively blaming the Bernie supporters for the possibility of Hillary losing in November. They totally overlook the scorn and derision they've been treating us with. They are oblivious to the possibility that they perhaps need to win us over.

I, for one, am completely over voting for a lesser evil. Because it still is an evil If Hillary is as strong a candidate as they claim, and boy do I think recent developments indicate otherwise, then she'll do just fine without me. But I might want to point out that a year ago she was invincible and inevitable, and she's still not secured the nomination.

[840high]

24. .+1

[grossproffit]

6. We'll just have to work harder. Many of us are already used to carrying the weight of others.

[bobbobbins01]

9. Bernie or Bust and proud of it.

Want my vote, earn it.

[laserhaas]

55. YAY

[Bonobo]

15. Bizarre premise behind this OP...

Does the OP think that people need to "think of themselves as heroes" in order to actually have the right to vote for someone they support?

How bizarre. I can only think that people with certain complexes (holy self righteousness for example) tend to project that others think the same way as they do.

[Bonobo]

20. Hard to see why or how anyone could feel they have the right to demand anything else.

That's what a vote is for.

[Jackilope]

17. Meh. I live in a red state. My vote in general means nothing.

My vote in primary is for Bernie. I am sick and tired of the corrupt system. HRC will do nothing to stop it, she is part of it. Trump disgusts me, but so does Third Way. I'll vote Democratic and on issues down ballot, but have no intention at this point of bubbling in anything for president if it's down to Drumph or HRC.

There is a very clear message to Democrats and Super Delegates that motivation for who is the lesser of two evils doesn't motivate or excite the masses. Put all your chips and push a candidate with significant baggage and someone not trusted, but blame voters for not getting behind them because of tRump? Bad marketing and poor product. Blame yourselves for pushing her. Establishment and moneyed interests don't care. It is win / win for them with either one.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Wow. Your way or the highway, eh?

Welcome to the new DU.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. 16 more days and they can silence dissent to make it their private little cabal.

They openly count down.

[silvershadow]

21. You buy your ticket, you take your chances. No whining, now. If you're moving to General mode

ahead of Skinner's announcement, you're early.

[SMC22307]

22. Don't be a fool with your life! Come back and make me your wife!

Guess that's appropriate since it is Memorial Day weekend.

[Bonobo]

29. Billy, keep your head low! nt

[Nedsdag]

72. Billy, don't be a hero, come back to me! nt

[Lil Missy]

28. I wouldn't waste any time on them.

[JimDandy]

30. This can't be said enough: Wherever your candidate ends up, is entirely dependent on her and no one

else.

[Sky Masterson]

32. Or they could have integrity.

Definition of integrity
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values.

Unlike, a person who throws out what they believe in to support something they deem wrong.
Or someone who flips their script depending on popularity,crowd,or polls.

[baldguy]

38. So, Cap is a Sanders supporter?

[Sky Masterson]

39. Nope. Cap has Integrity.

He Supports America and what is best for it.
I doubt seriously that he would be "With her".
And you don't know the end of the "Hail Hydra" Cap #1 story.
Nobody does yet. I am betting he is under deep cover.

Here is the question that sparked Caps Answer.

[bvf]

33. Naturally, lots of people are going to be

just sick beyond measure that they're not "heroes" in your eyes.

By propping up such a fatally flawed candidate as Hillary Clinton, you yourself have already helped Trump more than you could possibly imagine. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can put that off on anyone else. Not for a second. Nobody's buying that crap.

[Sky Masterson]

35. Thank you!

"Trump or Bust" is the more Honest slogan or we wouldn't even be running a Dynastic and chronically flawed candidate in Hillary against a showman.

[B Calm]

34. First they tell us we're not needed and to get the hell get out of the way, now they want to

blame us for Trump? Which is it, you need us? You don't need us?

[Sky Masterson]

36. Math and all that.

They obviously have the Math on their side so what is -1 vote gonna change.
I'm sure its only a small portion of people only on DU though because her approval and Likeability are so high out there in the real world (Sarcasm)

[baldguy]

37. BoBs are Trumpists. No question.

Phony "progressives" who refuse to support the progressive candidate who WILL be the nominee of the Democratic Party. Trump loves them.

[lame54]

40. You are no hero...

you hero-less non-hero

[99Forever]

41. I don't recollect ever claiming to be a hero.

I am however a principled, honest, intelligent person with a strong sense of integrity that will not be browbeat into supporting or voting for a dirty, rotten, scoundrel and serial liar simply because it fulfils her over-inflated egotistical need.


Don't like it? Tough shit.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. If you think HRC's been "pushed to the left", you have no higher order thinking skills...

... and that would make you a cheerleader for the oligarchy.

[laserhaas]

54. ^^^^^^this 10000 times + ^^^^^^^

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. Or maybe it will be the fault of the people who chose corrupt political machines over principle.

[polly7]

49. So you spend months denigrating Sanders supporters here,

have a web-site with members from here deciding which ones to target, make horrible false claims against Sanders himself accusing him of every ugly thing under the sun since day one, and then accuse them of 'not being heros' if they can't force themselves to vote for someone who represents everything they were against from the start?

That takes a lot of gall.

What was it the Clinton campaign said - disqualify, defeat and unify later? That also takes a lot of gall, considering the 'disqualifying' included using the filthy Brock machine to trot out those daily memes - you remember, sexist, racist, etc.

Sanders started with nothing, was blocked out of the media for months, the debate schedule was so pathetically transparent to keep people from seeing and getting to know him - every single trick in the book was thrown at him, yet look at all those tens of thousands who still flock to hear him speak. I have no skin in this game but the way he and his supporters have been treated by the media and online in forums such as this has been beyond sad. A good, decent and brilliant man who's fought all his life for actual people, not corporations, didn't deserve any of it.

They will vote how they want, your OP and the continued nastiness against them here does nothing for your cause.

[B Calm]

56. +1

[hrmjustin]

63. What false claims have I made against Sanders?

And Sanders supporters here are no saints so stop playing the victim.

[laserhaas]

52. Opinions...like buttS...vary...Im Bern or Bust..PERIOD

She took money from my sworn enemy...Goldman Sachs

A firm that intentionally stole a billion dollars from our piblic company...that broke the law and rigged the DOJ (by planting a Goldman Sachs law firm partner..in as the fed prosecutir iver our case)

And a firm that benefitted from my daughter being kidnapped

On top of taking money from them and hiding her praise of them...during speeches......

She took money from foreigners while Sec.of State making decisions about those foreigners nations

Senator Ted Stevens went to prison for a chair

Traficant for a rent a car

And Governor Seigelman is in jail for even less

Defending Hillary is so PATHETICALLY wrong

On so many levels

[coyote]

57. Is it heroic to support a warhawk?

An oligarch? Fracking? Someone who wants minorities to heel?

Supporting Bernie is heroic!

Have a nice day.

[gollygee]

58. Bernie or busters know she'll win the general

I can't really take them seriously. They know she'll win or they wouldn't be Bernie or busters. They'd vote for her before letting Trump win. They just know they don't have to.

[Gothmog]

59. K&R

[NorthCarolina]

61. Anyone who is "principled" in regards to policy differences

and comes out on the side of Sanders based on those principles will not support Hillary in the GE since that would be going against their "principles". Actually, they are heroes who should be proud of standing up for their principles.

[laserhaas]

64. Correctly stated, "NorthCarolina"

Thanks

[NorthCarolina]

67. Both parties have been exposed in these primaries. People aren't stupid,

and they know when establishment bullshit is being pushed down their throats. This movement will survive Bernie, much to their chagrin, it isn't going anywhere and better yet, it will continue to grow as more and more youth come on board, and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

BS posts like this are nothing more than attempts to browbeat and dishearten. It won't work, other than working contrary to thier desired outcome.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Not true. I will not vote for Trump.

If I don't vote for Hillary, Trump will gain nothing.

0-0 = 0

[BootinUp]

69. Childish, ignorant, selfish, self-destructive. Those would be realistic descriptions.

[The Midway Rebel]

75. Yeah sure.

[Jester Messiah]

76. Says you.

But given the way hillarites have behaved and the company you keep, I'm not terribly concerned about your opinion of me.

[hrmjustin]

81. Yes says me.

And considering how Sanders supporters behave and the company you keep, i am not terribly concerned of your opinion of me.

[Gothmog]

77. The threats of the Bernie or Bust people will not work

The bernie or bust threat is not going to work http://thedailybanter.com/2016/02/nevada-bernie-sanders-or-bust/

There truly is a brand of young political idealist -- and that’s the nice way of referring to it -- which is wielding its vote, or lack thereof, as a weapon to hopefully get Bernie Sanders elected. These are the people who threaten to stay home on election day, so to speak, and who insist that that very boycott will be what costs the Democrats the White House and puts the highest office in the free world in the hands of somebody like Donald Trump. Their arithmetic goes something like this: Democrats say that a Republican win in 2016 is unacceptable, given who the candidates are and what they believe, and that any and all necessary steps must be taken to prevent it; Hillary Clinton can’t win against the Republicans without the support of Bernie Sanders supporters in the general election; Bernie Sanders supporters will not vote for Hillary Clinton if she wins the nomination, no matter what; therefore, abandoning Hillary Clinton and supporting Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee is the only alternative to preventing a GOP victory. See? Give us what we want and no one gets hurt. Simple as that.

Except that this is the same kind of political hostage-taking the Republicans currently in Congress have become pariahs for engaging in. When the GOP has in the recent past threatened to allow the government to go into default because it doesn’t have the votes or the power to get what it wants through the proper channels, wise people have looked for the nearest brick to throw at its representatives. Now, if these Sanders acolytes are to be believed, the ostensible other end of the political spectrum is trying to pull the same crap: threaten to burn the country down because they can’t get what they want any other way. Like all forms of political terrorism, if you give in to this nonsense it’ll just embolden the next fringe group that can’t see its demands met by putting it to a vote. And that’s really the problem here: these ........ apparently can’t understand that in this country it all comes down to a vote and if their guy doesn’t get enough of them, he doesn’t win. Simple as that.

I’ve said from the very beginning that the Republicans are so thoroughly batshit and so unconscionably dangerous right now that a victory for them in November should be out of the question. Because of this, whoever were to win the nomination for the Democrats has to be the person sane people vote for, because he or she is all that stands between America and a new Dark Ages, particularly when you take the Supreme Court into account. If Bernie Sanders were to win, he’d get my vote. If Hillary Clinton were to win, she’d get my vote. That’s how, I believe, decent, evolved people think -- people who aren’t petulant children. I’d like to believe that the “Bernie or Bust” crowd is just making idle threats, but given its well-documented behavior over the past several months -- coupled with the fact that Bernie’s white millennial base likely believes it has the luxury of being able to survive in the GOP’s vision of future America -- it seems far more likely that if Sanders doesn’t win, they’ll stay home and sulk rather than do their civic duty for the good of the country.

What does that mean for the rest of us? It means we’ll simply have to do it without them. We’ll have no other choice.

Again, no one is going to change their vote and support Sanders based on the fact that some Sanders supporters will not support the nominee of the party.

[Scootaloo]

78. I'm glad you got that off of your chest. Do you feel better?

[hrmjustin]

80. Yes much better, thank you.

[7wo7rees]

79. I am starting to believe maybe the same can be said for the

Hillary camp. Torpedoes be damned.