2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat did Hillary do as SoS other than screw things up?
Can someone Hillsplain this to me?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She lobbied for the first-ever U.N. Human Rights Council resolution on human rights and declared that gay rights are human rights. And here at home, she made the State Department a better, fairer place for LGBT employees to work.
(From her website)
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)so while I think it's nice she paid lip service to LGBT human rights, the impact was negligible.
And then of course there's her Senate record of anti-LGBT bias...
oberliner
(58,724 posts)We can only do what we can to promote LGBT rights.
Your video shows just how far Hillary has come on that front, thankfully.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)I would just like to see a little more courage on her part. It's easy to hop aboard the Freedom Train once the tracks have been cleared. It's a lot harder when you don't know what political peril might lie ahead.
To be fair, she was far from the only Democrat to lead from behind on this. And of course most of the GOP is still actively fighting against LGBT rights.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)there wouldn't be any thing to fight for.
You are just looking to add negative spin however you can.
The oh-so serious inquiry was a dead giveaway as to the purpose of the OP.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Kahleed says: My personal experience as a gay man in Libya hasnt been easy. I was investigated by policemen for having an online profile on Manjam. Officers from the internal security agency during Gaddafis regime came to my home and outed me to my family which caused huge problems. I took me over two long years before I managed to work things out with them.
I was interrogated by the criminal investigation bureau for thirty long minutes, but which seemed like eternity. I was then ordered to stop meeting people through Manjam because there are people there who have contacts with foreign intelligence networks.
After the investigation I removed my previous profile but stayed in touch with all the contacts I have made before. But to my horror I found out that the governments security agency was monitoring my calls and online activities. Furthermore, they hacked into my personal email and showed all my correspondence to my mother, which made me refrain from accessing any LGBT and political online sites for a while.
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/my-life-gay-man-under-gaddafi/#gs.I7dW_w8
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)While It sounds like life wasn't easy for the guy, in this article ( (I do feel for him) the Islamists who will most likely take over surely won't make his life better.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)One of the first things Qaddafi did when he seized power in Libya was institute Sharia Law. He closed down all non-Islamic places of worship and dismantled the entire civil justice system.
This may help you:
Under the revolutionary Gaddafi government, the role of orthodox Islam in Libyan life became progressively more important. Muammar al-Gaddafi was a highly devout Muslim, with an expressed desire to exalt Islam and to restore it to its properi.e., centralplace in the life of the people. He believed that the purity of Islam had been sullied through time, particularly by the influence of Europeans, both during and after the colonial period, and that Islam's purity must be restored by such actions as: the restoration of sharia to its proper place as the basis of the Libyan legal system, the banning of "immodest" practices and dress, and the symbolic purification of mosques.
Gaddafi also believed in the value of the Quran as a moral and political guide for the contemporary world, as is evident from his tract, The Green Book, published in the mid-1970s (see The Green Book, ch. 4). Gaddafi considered the first part of The Green Book to be a commentary on the implications of the Quranic injunction that human affairs be managed by consultation. For him, this meant direct democracy, which is given "practical meaning" through the creation of people's committees and popular congresses. Gaddafi felt that, inasmuch as The Green Book was based solely on the Quran, its provisions should be universally applicableat least among Muslims.
Soon after taking office, the Gaddafi government showed itself to be devoutly conservative by closing bars and nightclubs, banning entertainment deemed provocative or immodest, and making use of the Muslim calendar mandatory. The intention of reestablishing sharia was announced, and Gaddafi personally assumed chairmanship of a commission to study the problems involved. In November 1973, a new legal code was issued that revised the entire Libyan judicial system to conform to the sharia, and in 1977 the General People's Congress (GPCsee Glossary) issued a statement that all future legal codes would be based on the Quran.
Among the laws enacted by the Gaddafi government were a series of legal penalties prescribed during 1973 which included the punishment of armed robbery by amputation of a hand and a foot. The legislation contained qualifying clauses making its execution unlikely, but its enactment had the effect of applying Quranic principles in the modern era. Another act prescribed flogging for individuals breaking the fast of Ramadan, and yet another called for eighty lashes to be administered to both men and women guilty of fornication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Libya#Islam_in_Gaddafi_Libya
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)And then consider yourself an expert on a subject.
Well, I don't need wikipedia to know about Ghadaffy's history as Libya's leader, but since it seems to be your source of knowledge, let me give you a suggestion:
Read past the second paragraph, then you'd see he backtracked on using sharia as a basis for law, and went more to secular socialism. I mean FFS, the guy was allied with Moscow.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I just thought it would be easier to give you the basics from Wikipedia.
If you are seriously interested in learning more about Qaddafi's revolution, check out:
http://www.amazon.com/Qaddafi-Libyan-Revolution-David-Blundy/dp/0316100420
Its out of print, but it's a really great read since it predates the Lockerbie bombing so it isn't tainted by or focussed on that. You might be able to find it a library.
In any case, Islam was certainly central to Qaddafi's revolution. Libya was almost completely secular until he took over. That was part of the foundation of his movement.
Have you read any of the Green Book?
pinebox
(5,761 posts)This is the issue many of us have with her.
She walks one way but talks another
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)In fact if you listen closely you can hear the solmnity in their voices... It's A FUNERAL...
MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...
Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...
Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"
Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"
Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!
madokie
(51,076 posts)and I'm not referring to her piloting a ship either
The biggest mistake we'll make in my lifetime will be electing her as our president. Simple as that
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)1) Women's and LGTB rights front and center on the world stage.
2) Worked to force Iran to the table later resulting in a historic nukes deal.
3) Traveled to more countries than any other Sec. of State to date, and was widely respected.
4) Dealt tough with Putin on various issues.
5) Worked hard on the peace process in Israel negotiating a cease fire between Israel and Hamas.
6) VERY high public opinion and job approval as Sec. of State.
You can do the rest.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)"dealt tough"... you must be joking right?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And after it happens the Clinton Administration will say it was bound to happen anyway, point a finger at the Obama Administration and obliquely blame them while claiming to have been out of the loop, then say we should just get over it before walking away from the podium as soon as the question comes up.
emulatorloo
(44,261 posts)and bring back the draft.
Please check your crystal ball's serial number and date of manufacture. There may be a recall notice.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Actually, their accomplishments are not actually seen. They often carry the message of the President and handle back door information and deals. They are chief ambassadors for the US in most cases.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)1. She made speeches but actually accomplished nothing. It's not like she said "end abuses against sexual orientation" and the world listened.
2. She had NOTHING to do with Iran. Iran reached out via Twitter to Obama and Kerry AFTER Hillary left office. There is ZERO evidence to even remotely suggest she played even the smallest role.
3. When did flying on a plane become an accomplishment?
4. Hillary gave Putin a button with the wrong words on it and didn't do anything to Putin after that.
5. Hillary had nothing to do with negotiating the ceasefire between Palestine and Israel. The last battles started on her watch and ended on Kerry's.
6. Reagan has a high public approval rating too. I wouldn't exactly call it an accomplishment, especially since Hillary's has sunk since leaving her post as SoS.
trudyco
(1,258 posts)To enrichment of her & her husband via speeches or enrichment of the clinton foundation through donations.
karynnj
(59,508 posts)1) Her speeches on LGBT and women and children communicated American values - always a good thing to do.
2) She did work internationally to set up the very tough sanctions. Other than Iranians, everyone lists the sanctions as a reason that Iran was willing to negotiate. The entire deal can be collapsed to Iran giving up enough to be a year from making a bomb and accepting end to end monitoring on the entire process from uranium mining to the last enrichment step. You could argue that some of the people advocating the sanctions did NOT do so to get negotiations - but as a direct way to hold back the Iranians. (Netanyahu is a good example) Recent articles show HRC was hesitant on negotiating, sending a team to Oman mostly to rein in Kerry and NSA head Donilon.
3) The point was she was a good will ambassador and she did go to more countries than any other SoS. Her name recognition being near President level made her visits a tool for American diplomacy.
4) Clinton's relationship with Putin and Lavrov was pretty cold. The reset button story is embarrassing and, to me, the main source of concern is that she was SoS, a department with many many people fluent in Russian. When her internal clique came up with this idea, they opted to look the word "reset" up in a dictionary. Two problems, I am of the same generation as HRC and I can't believe she gave them a red button - apparently forgetting the whole 50s/60s hysteria over "the button" and not getting the right word because the experts were ignored. Obviously part of the problem IS Putin, but Kerry has worked with Lavrov when they could find common ground - like Syrian chemical weapons, Iran, climate change, and the Syrian cessation of hostilities.
5) Egypt (under Morsi) did suggest a ceasefire and Clinton joined with them and, in fact, offered the Iron Dome as a sweetener to Israel. There was a cease fire .... even though in 2014, Israel was again fighting with Gaza. This point is completely true - though Egypt's important role should be acknowledged.
6) subjective
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)1. Those speeches are nothing more than empty rhetoric.
2. She had nothing to do with sanctions against Iran. Tje last sanctions update, prior to the Secretary Kerry negotiating, was in 2006 - two years prior to Obama taking office.
3. Those miles mean nothing without accomplishments. It's pure vanity.
4. Yeah, she screwed things up with Russia.
5. Clinton could not broker a peace deal with Israel and Palestine. Egypt did the heavy lifting and nothing changed in the long run.
6. There's nothing subjective about her poll numbers. They are what they are.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)"Worked on this, worked on that.... blah, blah, blah."
Did she ever finish anything? What are the concrete accomplishments?
One certainly was the Libya intervention, which Obama called "the greatest mistake of my presidency."
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)for her leadership on several fronts....of course there is nothing we can put in front of hater to change their minds but we don't need the haters
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hillary+clinton+most+admired+woman+in+the+world
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)People on their actions, then someone more along the caliber of Aung San Suu Kyi would have probably been number one.
Response to beachbum bob (Reply #5)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)just as Obama is the most admired man
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Response to beachbum bob (Reply #42)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
madokie
(51,076 posts)and no I'm not going on a prove my point with you cause no matter what I add you'll ignore what I post anyway.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)I doubt you were born just hours ago. You already have your answer you're just looking for validation
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)She traveled all over the world at tax payers expense.
RealAmericanDem
(221 posts)During W's years he made it embarrassing to travel abroad. I remember Americans in Europe sewing Canadian flag patches on their backpacks before going to Europe.
Hillary turned that around 180 degrees.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)She did a lot for Monsanto and fracking though. And sold shit tons of arms to her charitable contributors. So there's that.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Twenty points when Obama won and that was before he floated Hillary as SoS.
Response to RealAmericanDem (Reply #9)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Alex4Martinez
(2,199 posts)And, really, every ounce of her being since then has been devoted to saving children all around the universe, nothing more.
Neither fracking nor wars nor making predators heel could sway her from the swift completion of her Goldman Sachs speech giving child saving rounds.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)CBHagman
(16,992 posts)...in itself merit a serious reply, but for anyone who is interested in the record, here are some places to start:
Here's an academic evaluation of her tenure at State, with both good and bad weighed. I'm only going to quote the context, because it is important, in this era of short attention spans and rule by meme and talking point, to grasp how things actually work.
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/was-hillary-clinton-a-good-secretary-of-state/2014/05/30/16daf9c0-e5d4-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html[/url]
Remember that secretaries of state dont control U.S. foreign policy. Clinton wasnt following her own grand strategy when she reigned in Foggy Bottom; her job was to implement President Obamas ideas. To make a fair and useful assessment of Clintons record in office, one must consider some complicated questions:
How did Clinton understand the interplay of Americas power, its interests, its resources and its values? Was she able to translate that vision into policies that won enough support throughout the government to be carried out? Was she able to gain or keep the presidents confidence, and was the State Department under her leadership able to hold its own in the bureaucratic battles of the day? To the extent that her policy ideas were adopted, how effective were they? How well did she manage on the inevitable occasions when things went horribly wrong?
(SNIP)
While she did not win all the battles she fought the president resisted her counsel on Syria, and she failed to persuade him to back Richard Holbrookes diplomatic efforts in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region she managed the relationship successfully and won his trust, to the point that the president wanted her to stay on the job well into his second term. This outcome was not a given; Clintons association with Obama began in their bitter 2008 Democratic nominating contest, and her success at building a strong relationship with a president not known for embracing new friends or Washington insiders testifies to her formidable interpersonal skills.
Here's another take on Clinton's years at state:
[url]http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/18/head-of-state/[/url]
But theres a paradox about this latest Hillary hoopla: Few Americans have any idea what Clinton has actually been up to as secretary of state, or even what a secretary of state is supposed to do in this day and age. In the rarefied circles of the Washington foreign-policy establishment, where theyve been paying closer attention, Clinton gets big points for style and for taking her brand of people to people diplomacy international at a time when America desperately needed just her kind of star power to revive an image tarnished by a near decade of George W. Bushs cowboy unilateralism. Aside from that, as one of the citys mandarins put it to me recently in one of numerous nearly identical conversations, What has she done? The poohbah reeled off a long string of Important Global Issues, from Middle East peace to negotiating a political end to the long-running war in Afghanistan, from which Clinton appears to have been sidelined by the Obama White House or is simply out of the picture. To those traditionalists, Clinton is something of a puzzle; clearly, shes a success in the soft power department, a relentless cheerleader for Brand America. But they cant help disdaining her focus on issues such as womens rights and development economics surely not the stuff of real diplomacy and see her attention to them as proof of how marginalized shes been by the Obama White House on the geopolitics that count. Thats the rap, sighed one Clinton booster.
Set out to solve the puzzle, and you immediately see why its so hard: The everyday business of being Hillary Clinton right now means navigating between the hands-on president who gave her the job and a never-ending series of global obligations for which somebody and often as not these days that somebody is Clinton must show up. No wonder Clintons public schedule is a seemingly endless procession of talking points-ridden events at which she tirelessly hails the work of womens empowerment networks or takes questions in a townterview. Her traveling press corps may roll their eyes; her exhausted aides may barely look up from their BlackBerrys. But there is Clinton, upbeat and chipper.
Which is why its so striking to talk to Clinton away from the perky photo ops and anodyne press conferences. She may be relentlessly on message, but shes no automaton. Ask anyone whos watched her work politics on the global stage these last few years, and theyll tell you the same story: Clinton is an adept behind-the-scenes operator, a tough negotiator not afraid to play the bad cop or make fun of the macho posturings of her many tough-guy interlocutors.
There's a lot more at the link.
For those who want snapshots of her tenure, there's the State Department's record of the secretary's town halls, speeches, etc., from around the world:
[url]http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/townhalls/index.htm[/url]
Her remarks during her tenure, again from the State Department site:
[url]http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/townhalls/index.htm[/url]
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands and displaced even more.
All of which make her supremely qualified to move back into the White House!
Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #22)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
BootinUp
(47,208 posts)Snapshot of Hillary Clintons Record as Secretary of State
As Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton fought to make the world safer
and to restore Americas leadership in the world after it was badly
eroded by eight years of the Bush administrations foreign policy. Her
tenure is marked by significant accomplishments, from building a
powerful global sanctions regime against Iran, to brokering a cease-fire
in Gaza to protect Israel, to supporting President Obama in the raid
against Osama Bin Laden, and much more.
Take a look at some of her topline achievements below:
* *She led the effort to impose the toughest sanctions in history on
Iran
<http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/11/201343.htm>*,
twisting arms in China, Russia
<http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703957904575252600443502256>
and dozens of other countries to force Iran to the negotiating table
<http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-is-both-supportive-and-skeptical-of-iran-nuclear-talks-1427758593>.
* *She personally negotiated
<http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=740E3ED8-5CC7-43EA-BD02-C800006A6E5D>
a stop to Hamas rockets raining down on Israel with a cease-fire in
Gaza and actively supported
<http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/11/201343.htm>
Israels Iron Dome rocket defense system*, which saved the lives of
many Israelis.
* *She was part of the Presidents team making the decision to launch
the raid <http://nymag.com/news/features/hillary-clinton-2013-9/>
against Osama bin Laden.*
* *She made womens rights, economic participation, and political
participation central to American foreign policy
<http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-doctrine-66105> and global
affairs*, which history will record as a profound contribution.
* *She worked to ensure the ratification
<http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/11/clinton.start.treaty/> of
the New START treaty, which will make the world safer* by reducing
American and Russian nuclear arsenals to their lowest point in fifty
years.
* *She put economics and energy at the heart of the State Departments
agenda.* Her jobs diplomacy efforts contributed to a 50 percent
increase in American exports
<http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/20121120amcham.html> to China.
* *She worked to build an unprecedented global effort to combat
climate change*, joining President Obama to stand up to the Chinese
in Copenhagen and get them to take greater responsibility
<http://www.eenews.net/special_reports/global_climate_debate/stories/1059990866>
for carbon emissions.
* *She executed the pivot to Asia
<http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2011/11/177349.htm>*
deepening our engagement
<http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/11/americas-pacific-century/> in
this critical region, repairing our alliances
<http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/20/debating_hillary>,
and insisting that China play by the rules
<http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/03/185402.htm>
while enlisting their cooperation on priorities like Iran
<http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703957904575252600443502256>
and climate change
<http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2009/12/28/copenhagen-accord-offers-some-progress-on-climate-change>.
* *She made the rights of LGBT people a key focus of her efforts
<http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/secretary-clinton-champions-gay-rights-for-state-department-and-abroad/>
as Secretary of State*, including lobbying intensively for the first
ever U.N. Human Rights Council resolution on LGBT human rights.
* *She fought to expand internet freedom
<http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-02-15/clinton-to-promote-technology-to-ensure-global-internet-freedom>
around the world*, standing up to Russia, China, and Iran on the issue.
* *Hillary Clinton oversaw a staff
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/200506.pdf> of about
70,000 employees* at nearly 270 diplomatic posts in 190 countries
around the world.
* *Overseeing a budget of more than $50 billion, Clinton worked hard
to ensure that American taxpayers got the most bang for the buck
<http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/02/183808.htm>* with State
and USAID programs during tough economic times.
* *With less resources and new challenges Clinton promoted
public-private partnerships, launching the Global Partnership
Initiative
<http://www.state.gov/s/partnerships/achievements/202394.htm>* to
act as a convener, catalyst, and collaborator with the private sector.
* *Former Republican Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said Hillary
Clinton ran the State Department in the most effective way
<http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/08/capital-download-henry-kissinger-isis-obama/15274621/>
that Ive ever seen.*
leveymg
(36,418 posts)ment in the most effective way
<http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/08/capital-download-henry-kissinger-isis-obama/15274621/>
that Ive ever seen.*
That's an accomplishment in your book?
BootinUp
(47,208 posts)which is a sign of competence. You cannot execute policy in this country without getting that kind of support. Welcome to reality.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)They think she cared about them and looked out for their interests. She was a good boss.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Tell Jake Sullivan that after "strip the headers and send unsecure", along with Huma Abedin who had to separate the "personal" from the official emails to be destroyed.
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)she woke up everyday and just tried her very bestest!
leveymg
(36,418 posts)But, just as the US doesn't deserve all the blame for the rest of the chaos . . .
ancianita
(36,201 posts)That their free wills and spirituality were equal to all men's.
That their bodies could be under their own control.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)what Obama calls "the greatest mistake of my presidency."
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)In her book that's probably the definition of success. Keep the money coming in and the network of favors owed moving in the right direction. It's the kind of success definition you'd expect more from a Rumsfeld or Cheney type, or in organized crime, but from that point of view she was a success.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Especially for those times when you want to share private stuff with certain friends and/or family and keep certain long noses out of your own private business.