2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAt the risk of alienating some of you good folks......
I first posted this in the Sanders thread. Perhaps it merits a broader view?
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article80314017.html#1
Its not hard to see that the Hillary Clinton forces are becoming impatient. Bernie Sanders acts like he didnt get the memo. He continues to add surprising wins to his totals, looking to fight on, as the national convention approaches. Gigantic, fervent crowds greet him at every venue, as if they fail to realize hes thought to be dead. Politics, in 2016, marches to mysterious drums.
I, for one, will be surprised if this changes. Traditional electoral etiquette may suggest its time for Sanders to fold his tent, declare fealty to the Clinton cause and deliver his passion-driven disciples to the former secretary of state for deployment. Im not sure he can bring himself to do it. If he does, Im even less certain theyll listen. He may walk to the endorsing platform alone.
The first reason is obvious. Sanders and Clinton have dramatically different visions of politics.
More at link.....
Gene Nichol is Boyd Tinsley Distinguished Professor at UNC-Chapel Hill.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)However, I suspect few of them will "get it", even after reading this.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)say you don't get.
The majority of voters have endorsed Hillary. That seems to be what you don't get.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You've repeatedly declared you do not need us nor our votes. So what's the point of this post?
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)repeatedly have said we need/want your votes. Just because a few people here (who do not represent Hillary or her campaign) say things like that I wouldn't take marching orders from them....
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Hillary in the general. You sour grape people can do what you want. There aren't enough of you to matter.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Hillary supporters are on the wrong side of history. You think this is just about two candidates but it is so much bigger than that. You must see it, it must be denial, because it is obvious who has the fire and who is waking up the people. This isn't about that person though, it's about their message. It's about how he has shown the people we don't have to live with a big money corporate candidate after all, we CAN have the govt beholden to the people. We just need someone who is willing to do that to step up to the plate. Well one has. Many more have for other positions. Many more still will.
The people are tired of crony capitalism and thankfully they've been shown we don't have to deal with it if we continue the good fight against it. Hillary and her supporters are in the way of that happening. They are slowing down progress. They are for continuing things just the way they are at a time when the people are hungry, desperate for change. As with all struggles for equality and fairness in the world, history will show this to be true.
.
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)+27
840high
(17,196 posts)chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)Red Mountain
(1,737 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts).
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I didn't go to McGovern, Carter, Clinton, Kerry, Obama, Clinton, etc., rallies. Didn't have time, and didn't need to hear yelled stump speeches, music, etc. But I voted, as did a lot of others.
Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Berners themselves.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)70,000 people showed up for Obama rally in my State when he was running, they also voted for him and he won, remember? Largest candidate crowds in history belong to Obama, who won. Because people go to rallies then they vote. Sorry that bothers you so but it is insulting when you discount the entire Pacific Rim, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii and Alaska are all with Bernie so far. Next comes California. So he has won all of those states because no one shows up to vote for him?
We have honest election systems here. What do you have?
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)If she gets the numbers, he can withdraw as she did four days after the last primary. She took time to negotiate SoS. She has nothing to give Bernie so maybe he will up grade his convention spot. And you are absolutely right about his followers being independent minded also, smile.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Believe it or not, This Election is about Fighting the Corruption in our elections, that's what it's about, and that's what'll be told in history books. Hillary, no matter what, even if she wins. Will not come out of this looking good.
We are fighting corruption, not Hillary.
Will we learn that when we determine the nominee?
After during the election?
Or once it's all done?
Idk, but I'm fighting for, before, as any sane person would. I foresee what's going to happen Freewill remains.
No, I'm not clairvoyant. I just don't turn a blind eye to what's actually happening.
Let's look at the facts.
1. (And this one is big for us Democrats) The Republicans have chosen a so called "Anti-Establishment" nominee)
These are people who vote Republican. On The other side of the spectrum of Democrats.
Yet we also want the same thing, Anti-Establishment (well about half of Democrats at least and x2 Independents)
(opposite sides wanting the same thing is huge, btw.)
2. Bigotry is easily dismissive in 2016 Corruption is not.
What this means is we won't allow it. For instance, a law somehow got passed about the bathroom thing with transgenders. Are people agreeing with it? Sure.. Not as much as the people disagreeing with it though. Much more there. And it's cost the state. These kind of things won't happen again because of people like Bernie Sanders, who tell people to stand up. That law will go up in flames like the people who defend it. It not only is hateful, but it does not make sense. If they want transgender men out of the bathroom so much, how would that work for a woman who identifies and looks like a man? Completely illogical. People don't tolerate things like this, well the majority. And Bernie helps raise awareness to keep this Bigotry in check, WITH the people. Not just by himself.
What I'm getting at is, in this day and age, Bigotry is easily identifiable. And especially because of Bernie's Political Revolution, waking up people to politics, it's going to get shut down even more in the future, regardless if Bernie is President.
Can't put people back to sleep so easily. However, corruption passes by with ease in this day and age. Take Hillary for example, people still vote for her.
*Now at the same time, people vote for Trump, but remember, he's under a disguise as "Anti-Establishment"
A lot of people place their faith in the government currently running, I put my faith more into people
pacalo
(24,721 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)I did go vote - which is what should really count.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Oh, the horrors.
libodem
(19,288 posts)This is epic.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)A 40 year marriage is coming to an end. I can't take the abuse any more.
brush
(53,837 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)same policies as you would have with Hillary. For those of us who don't want corruption, right wing government, and corporate/big money rule, choices will be meager.
brush
(53,837 posts)yet her and Sanders voted the same 93% of the time.
You support him.
I support her. I would, however, vote for him if he won.
I suspect you would never vote for Clinton once she wins, and make no mistake, she's going to win.
That's the way it is.
And again, watch that door on your way out.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Just guessing but perhaps breaking another glass ceiling. Bernie sends real emails to real people to give starting at $5. What a schmuck, right?
brush
(53,837 posts)However, since you bought up the donations, it's questionable, IMO, for his campaign to keep asking for donations when they know there's no way for him to win the nomination anymore.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Flame away, but Ms. Clinton has a habit of doing and saying dumb things. And tedious at seems, there are still unresolved issues oustanding. Many supporters understand this. I wouldn't invest much more than opinion at this time.
brush
(53,837 posts)Last edited Mon May 30, 2016, 01:38 PM - Edit history (1)
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)The FBI hopefully could care less about Math. Math tells us that 30,000 emails were deleted. That surely does not end the story as, astonishingly, they are being recovered.
There's a difference as to how Math plays out.
brush
(53,837 posts)indictment is forthcoming from the DOJ.
libodem
(19,288 posts)[
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article12479222.html#storylink=cpy
It's good to see him not mincing words re: the Clintons.
....
Shes one of Americas leading globalists, until, reportedly, shes not. She hawks international pipelines until shes horrified by them. She votes for war, then declaims for peace. She demands mass incarceration until shes appalled by it. Shes Wall Streets best friend until she detests it. She sells the Lincoln bedroom and embraces super PACs, as she commits to strain money out of politics. Its a different approach.
....
In fact, concern for those at the bottom was standard Democratic fare until the Clintons. They were triangulating, third way, deregulating, corporatist, New Democrats famously ending big government, crushing welfare, demanding NAFTA, linking the party to a marriage with Wall Street and Hollywood that mirrored Republican economic policy and removed the interests of the bottom third from the American political agenda.
....
Its understandably nauseating, therefore, for the Sanders folks to be told it is their obligation to make the nomination process easier for Clinton. When that includes lectures about the high ground, it is more than activists ought be asked to bear. I hope they come around. Trump both humiliates and endangers America. But if they dont, itll be important to remember where much of the fault lies. Draining politics of its meaning, too, has its costs.
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article80314017.html#1#storylink=cpy
Thanks for posting.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)UNC's Nichol, and Reverend Barber of Moral Mondays, have taken the NC GOP head-on. Teachers/education, joblessness, no Medicaid expansion, regressive tax policy, slashed unemployment benefits, etc. To hear members of Democratic UNDERGROUND toss out "sore loserman" at those dedicated toward making a more egalitarian society is sickening. And they're Hillary fans... imagine that! Be proud, folks.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)There is nothing the Sanders crowd can do to make it easier or harder for Clinton to win the nomination. She will clinch the nomination on June 7 regardless of how anyone on Team Bernie feels about it.
They can make it easier or harder for Clinton to defeat Donald Trump.
That's their relevance, just like it's our relevance.
mac56
(17,574 posts)Good lord. Could you come across just a little bit more thug-like?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)mac56
(17,574 posts)It would be a shame if anything was to .... HAPPEN to it.... "
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Just pointing out the nomination has already been decided, because most voting has already occurred.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)which she has not done because she has no legal standing to claim it. Why is that? It is as yet not decided. Do you seriously think she or anyone else running for that nomination would hesitate to claim it when it was actually won? I sure don't. I have never, ever seen a candidate who hesitated. Have you?
What I have seen is Hillary Clinton explaining why she should stay in the race until June of 08, she said that no other candidate had ever been called on to drop out, she said that was historically unprecedented and only done to her, but her boosters sure as shit do it to Bernie. Hillary also of course invoked RFK to make her point all the more intense, I remember that. Don't you? She said it was wrong to call on candidates to drop out. But that's what you are doing, and that's Classic Clinton Double Standards.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Totally coopting rw terminology to push clinton.
I bet you were.big on sore.loserism in 2000 amirite?
Its midnight everyone pull off your masks.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)They looked hard at a traditional party commitment to low-income people, concluded it jeopardized their electoral fortunes and determined to abandon it
Its understandably nauseating, therefore, for the Sanders folks to be told it is their obligation to make the nomination process easier for Clinton
Scuba
(53,475 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)But it is surely there. I haven't seen it on this board before. Any way, it's bad manners.
QC
(26,371 posts)The Republican talking point of the day, which is now, as so often happens lately, a Clinton talking point, was "Sore Loser! You lost! Get over it!"
Pictures of crying babies were also popular. Everybody's crazy right wing uncle was forwarding this to everyone in his AOL address book back then.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)DU was founded in the aftermath of the stolen election, and at that time we opposed things like pointless wars, blanket government surveillance, efforts to circumvent FOIA, corporate welfare, and the like.
Clearly, a lot has changed.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)this time around, as well.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)...even when they tell you to....
QC
(26,371 posts)Owl
(3,643 posts)K&R
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)great article.