2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEither support the Dem nominee to defeat FrankenTrump, or you are NO "progressive."
No one who becomes so self-absorbed as to sit out or do ANYTHING to allow the diabolical racist misogynistic monster who is Trump to somehow win the presidency of this nation can even think about calling himself or herself a "progressive." Do that, and ALL "progressive" credentials are GONE. DONE. DESTROYED. HISTORY.
This is bigger than Bernie. And it is bigger than Hillary too. It is about what we want our nation to be. And if anyone doesn't get onboard after next Tuesday to defeat this rotten, evil, disgusting, crazy, narcissistic, greedy, selfish, money-grubbing, and completely unqualified piece of infected monkey shit who is named Trump, then you will never, ever, ever be a "progressive." Simple as that.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I also hate Hillary's hawkishness and neo-liberal preference of monied interests over the citizens of this nation.
I choose none of the above.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Because I never compared the two.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Is all you have insults and outright lies?
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Chill.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Jackilope
(819 posts)The fix is in on us. That HRC is so laden down with baggage of her own creation isn't our fault.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)who has apparently never taken a course in logic.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Admit it.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Isn't it also about what we don't want our nation to be? In this case, I don't want what Trump is selling and I also don't want what Hillary is supposedly selling. I choose to vote for neither. Down ticket it is this year.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Which she doesn't hold, so don't lecture us on what 'progressive' means.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)B. She'll probably have to bow out because of the FBI investigation, so I won't have to worry about her.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO don't know how to attract voters.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)people not to vote for Hillary shows without any doubt that they are not progressives at all.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Who I pretend to vote for is my business. Unlike you I do not pressure people to pretend to vote for anybody
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Yes it is an individual choice not yours or the OPs how I decide to vote.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)To vote for him would help and I will not do that. I know my state and apparently you and others are not quite aware how things work. Too bad really.
Jackilope
(819 posts)The oligarchy set up the two most polarizing, despised candidates because house always wins. Backing either of them is why we don't have nice things here in the USA.
I won't vote for either tRump or HRC. Down ticket decent Dems have my vote.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)He's somewhere below syphilis in my ratings system.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)But there won't be people advocating Trump on DU after 8 more days.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Democratic Party is so pathetic it cannot embrace, accept, acknowledge, make room for the many Bernie supporters who are tripping over themselves to support traditional Democratic values, then it is no longer the Democratic Party.
Bernie or Bust is essentially saying, these are our values, they are traditional Democratic values by the way, and if you cannot support them or run on them then I am taking my vote elsewhere.
It is very unlikely that they are going to vote for Trump.
But neither are they going to be blackmailed into voting for someone who represents things they cannot support.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Just that, in 8 days, advocating for Trump on this privately owned website will not be allowed anymore. So people who are advocating for Trump here via Bernie or Bust aka Bernie or Trump will have to do it somewhere else.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's a zero-sum game.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)I suppose you think that all voices critical of Hillary will just disappear around here?
Did that happen with Obama?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)I'm sure people will still be critical of Hillary, but they won't be able to advocate for Trump via Bernie or Bust anymore.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Your party is indirectly helping to elect the fascist. Historians will not be kind
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)You know where those threats and comments are being filed? The shredder.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)For the record
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But denial on how serious this scandal is, well not a river and spare me Sanders
But seriously, reality will intrude
And the OP will have that reality crash too
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)I simply implied you lecture people a lot
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And I give two shits what you say. See how that works. Right now, reality, your party will nominate not jus a weak candidate, but a wounded one... Don't presume to tell people how to pretend to vote ok.
And pretend is all we do. My goodness, this primary has revealed just how crass and how far right democrats have gone. I don't recognize this party. Not that I am surprised either
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)...or I missed something
inchhigh
(384 posts)Almost forms a perfect oxymoron.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)HRC is republican light it's as 'Simple as that'...
She's no progressive, so that would make you NO "progressive" if that's the case you're attempting to craft here with this post...
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)for your powerful decree.
cloudythescribbler
(2,586 posts)Unless one posits monumental massive widespread stupidity on the part of Hillary, her leading surrogates, and many of her grassroots supporters, one could only imagine they are TRYING to alienate as many Bernie supporters as possible from voting for Hillary in November, if & when she is the nominee.
I have supported Bernie myself since day 1 (and even before that was among those calling for him to run, AND TO RUN AS A DEMOCRAT, for reasons that should now be obvious), and support Bernie's stated intentions to support whomever is the Democratic nominee.
That said, the chorus of voices -- as Hillary's nomination becomes increasingly likely -- trashing, condescending to and trying to morally 'threaten' Sanderistas with a negative tag ARE TEXTBOOK methods for NOT winning people over in mass politics. And anyone familiary with organizing, even cursorily, will understand that what the mainstream leadership did in the NV Convention and since, is exactly the way to insure that as many Bernie supporters as possible will either stay home or vote for someone else (most likely a 3d Party candidate like Jill Stein) in November.
As it stands, probably the solid majority of Sanderistas, especially in the swing states where it matters, will vote for Hillary. But to win over the others requires more than just these sorts of cris-de-coeur. In settings like Nevada, where it was above all UNNECESSARY to rig the proceedings in the way that they did, the key is to show respect, just as it is in any mass campaign where you are appealing to a constituency. Unless some particular concession is likely to drive away OTHER voters in significant numbers, you seek out possible substantive compromises, and not just appearance-mongering and such. I see a lot of the latter, as if the program was to elect Trump, and then seek to demonize the progressive wing of the Democratic Party the way that Nader & his base were -- with some success -- demonized after the stolen election of 2000. Blaming those on the Left is SUCH a perennial sport in US politics and society, that winning people over by citing the implicit desire to be called "progressive" is in this context, perverse.
BTW, at the recent Left Forum in NY, a good slice of progressive thought gathering every year (previously the Socialist Scholar Conference dating back over 30 years), there were highly regarded progressives like Kshama Sawant who insisted that the important thing was to build up progressive forces independent of the two major parties, like Socialist Alternative in Seattle, her own base.
I have immense respect for her although I disagree over her approach (shared by MANY MANY other sincere progressives, for a variety of overlapping reasons) while the OP and others employing approaches like this demonstrate either a political tone-deafness that is astounding among the politically active, or perhaps a subtler but no less real angling for brownie points (as described above in this post)
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)4139
(1,893 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)cannot become the definition of "Progressive". It's the Party's own fault, largely based on policies fomented by the Clintons, that it has become such a Neoliberal cesspool, with corresponding backlash.
This is a great article on how even the IMF is questioning Neoliberal crap economic theory.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/05/new-imf-paper-challenges-neoliberal-orthodoxy.html
Hoping to inspire people through fear is an old tactic, and one that is growing exceedingly old and stale. It, and the rest of the DLC Neoliberal baggage should be jettisoned this year. Or are you in favor of trying to "attract more Republicans" by going further to the Right, as the Democratic Establishment might like to do. Why? Bernie has already shown he can attract plenty of Republicans just by being authentic and Populist.
Progressive/Populist/Anti-Establishment/Anti Wall Street and Big Money - these are all seen as good things this year. That is the kind of campaign we should be running, whoever is the candidate.
Run that kind of campaign and you will attract true Progressives. Don't run like that, and the jury is still very much out.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Par for this one's course however.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Gee that's funny. You guys have been telling us during this entire campaign that Bernie and his supporters are all racists and misogynists.
After the horribly destructive campaign you've pushed during the primary you have no standing to lecture others on what they should do or not do. This kind of hysterical authoritarian raving is not only smug and arrogant it's self defeating as well. You do nothing to help your candidate by browbeating others because of your own frustrations.
inchhigh
(384 posts)I'm from the home of Sen Al Franken and every time is see it I'm terrified that hes being floated as a possible running mate.
Just the association is ruining my appetite.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Think it through next time.
Vinca
(50,301 posts)if you are talking about who is or is not a progressive, you shouldn't include anything about Hillary in the mix. She's many things, but progressive is definitely not one of them. She's way closer to GOP-lite.