Sanders has already won most of the West and North states; will he also carry most Central states?

[Attorney in Texas]

West Coast: Sanders (at least 4 out of 5 states on the Pacific)

Alaska - Sanders
California -???
Hawaii - Sanders
Oregon - Sanders
Washington - Sanders

North: Sanders (at least 8 out of 14 remaining states on the northern border)

Idaho - Sanders
Illinois - Hillary
Indiana - Sanders
Maine - Sanders
Michigan - Sanders
Minnesota - Sanders
Montana - ???
New Hampshire - Sanders
New York - Hillary
North Dakota - ???
Ohio - Hillary
Pennsylvania - Hillary
Vermont - Sanders
Wisconsin - Sanders

South: Hillary (give her credit, she swept the 13 states of the Old South)

Alabama
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
North Carolina
South Carolina
Texas
Tennessee
Virginia

Central: Sanders (leads Hillary 8 to 7 out of 18 states with 3 decided next week)

Arizona - Hillary
Colorado - Sanders
Connecticut - Hillary
Delaware - Hillary
Iowa - Hilary
Kansas - Sanders
Maryland - Hillary
Massachusetts - Hillary
Nebraska - Sanders
Nevada - Hillary
New Jersey - ???
New Mexico - ???
Oklahoma - Sanders
Rhode Island - Sanders
South Dakota - ???
Utah - Sanders
West Virginia - Sanders
Wyoming - Sanders

[Democrats Ascendant]

1. Hunh??

Why leave out the East, or refer to it as Central??
Also, nice dig there calling it the Old South....

Edit: Oh, I see. #BernieMath

[tonyt53]

2. How many of Bernie's "wins" have come in states with caucuses of open primaries?

That tells the real story. Oh, you can add in NY, PR, DC, VI, probably NM to HRC. CA will likely be hers too, but she will have enough delegates before those votes are counted. Not a chance in hell Bernie will sway the first super and he may very well lose one or two that he has. Most people don't take lightly to insults.

[mythology]

26. Sanders actually doesn't do that well in primaries, regardless of if they are open or closed

He's only won 4 open primaries: Vermont, Wisconsin, Michigan and Indiana.

Clinton has won 11 open primaries: South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia, Texas, Virginia, Mississippi, Illinois, Missouri, and Ohio (a semi-open primary). Also while it doesn't count for delegates, she also won the Washington state primary.

It's a myth that Sanders wins open primaries. He wins caucuses and states that have low numbers of black and/or Hispanic voters. He also has done well in states with higher Native America or Pacific Islander populations.

[tonyt53]

51. Exactly

[YouDig]

3. What is this? Some new form of #berniemath?

[MariaThinks]

9. BernieMath - ways to use numbers to prove any point.

[libdem4life]

4. How many losses came before his name was even known?

Helped along by minimal debate exposure and lack of funds initially. Since then...and frankly I don't think anything else much matters...he's got the momentum.

[onenote]

14. Momentum? Not all that much.

In the first two months of the nominating process, Clinton won 20 contests to 15 for Sanders.

During the second two months, Clinton won 7 contests and Sanders won six.

Since May 1st, Sanders has won 3 and Clinton two, although also took the non-binding primaries in WA and Nebraska during that period.

In the Month of May, Sanders has won states that will give him 132 delegates (127 pledged and 5 super). Clinton has won states that will give her 135 delegates (108 pledged and 27 super).

In short, Sanders momentum is carrying him farther from the nomination, not closer.

[libdem4life]

15. He wasn't even known for half of the time thus far. I know this is

inconvenient, but it's a fact. A Senator from Vermont and a 2 decade Presidential Candidate and a recalcitrant DNC and pick and choose debates...I'd say coming from 5% to around 50% indicates something some would call momentum.

I've heard all the yada yada that rallies don't matter. Speeches don't matter. HRC does neither. Why? Now he's known, people like him and are listening to him. The further away from the public...We, the People...HRC stays, the better she does.

Really.

[demwing]

23. "The further away from the public...HRC stays, the better she does."

And the further away she stays, the better we do as well.

[onenote]

37. Yet he's still losing as many as he wins despite being known

[Maru Kitteh]

38. Of the legion of invalid excuses, that is the LAMEST invalid excuse. Seriously.

"He wasn't even known for half of the time thus far."

He won a lot of early states. Did he just appear in a fucking dream to those voters or what?

[libdem4life]

48. I don't like to respond to such lack of serious discourse. It's unbecoming.

However, the early states he won were mainly in the NE...you know, who knew who he was.

If one read the news and polls, it was clear...again, to some...that he was not widely known in the South and that most people tend to go with the known vs. the unknown. That's not my assessment...just bearing out what's known.

And your last statement reflects on only yourself.

[Maru Kitteh]

53. Well let's see . . IOWA where Sanders declared a "virtual tie" is in the Northeast now? Or not early

enough maybe? Did he come to the voters of Iowa in a dream? How could they possibly have known him?

You said half of this time he wasn't known.

We've had 48 contests. In the first 24 we had

Iowa - "virtual tie" declared by Sanders
Colorado - Sanders
Minnesota - Sanders
Oklahoma - Sanders
Dems Abroad - Sanders
Kansas - Sanders
Nebraska - Sanders
Michigan - Sanders

This excludes your Northeastern excuse states.

What else ya got?


Sanders didn't win, because more voters liked Hillary Rodham Clinton. That's just it. That's it. That's all. It's not a conspiracy or a mystery or even mildly puzzling. Millions of us were ready to support Hillary before she even announced, millions more came on board after, and we voted.

[libdem4life]

56. Well, I don't have hysteria. I never said all/non/never...

rather overdramatic. Nor did I mock you. That would be bad taste.

Let me try and rephrase. then I'm done. Sanders has not been a household name for more than a Very Few Months...as opposed to 3 decades. Simplified.

[Maru Kitteh]

61. Ok so what was your point here? You just said stuff, but it wasn't based on facts

and you didn't really mean what you said to be taken for reals? I don't understand.

You said he wasn't known for about half of this time, and the states he won were mostly in the Northeast.

I demonstrated this to be false.

Then you moved the goalposts. Now it seems it's the fact that Senator Sanders has not been notable for 3 decades despite the fact that he's been in Washington DC longer than Hillary Clinton is supposed to, what? Afford him some kind of political gimme? Like a handicap on the golf course or bumpers in the gutters at the bowling alley?

All those non-NE states that voted for him in the first half of the contests so far . . . did they know him?

[madokie]

77. Most of her most so called lead in the popular votes came then

ACTUALLY!

The truth be known that is

[LanternWaste]

5. A new and improved format of "Hillary won the Confederacy", eh?

"give her credit, she swept the 13 states of the Old South..."

A new and improved format of "Hillary won the Confederacy", eh? Clever. Clever, indeed.

[Democrats Ascendant]

6. I'll give 'em extra credit for all the creativity!

[Beacool]

18. In other words, all those pesky AA voters didn't see the light.

[SidDithers]

7. That and two bucks will get him a cup of coffee...

1770 to 1500.

Sid

[HappyinLA]

8. How about by population?

States by Population (in order 1-20)

California - Hillary leads in polls
Texas - Hillary
New York - Hillary
Florida - Hillary
Illinois - Hillary
Pennsylvania - Hillary
Ohio - Hillary
Georgia - Hillary
Michigan - Sanders
North Carolina - Hillary
New Jersey - Hillary leads in polls
Virginia - Hillary
Washington - Sanders
Massachusetts - Hillary
Arizona - Hillary
Indiana - Sanders
Tennessee - Hillary
Missouri - Hillary
Maryland - Hillary
Wisconsin - Sanders

Looks like 14 to 4 in Hillary's favor with 2 to go.

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. That doesn't matter ... On DU, a win over the Toledo Mud Hens is equal to ...

a win over the Royals, and it'll draw the same gate ... because it's a win!!!!

[Vote2016]

10. Hillary has regional appeal and is losing most contests outside of her region.

[Democrats Ascendant]

16. Yup. She appeals to populated regions.

[Vote2016]

36. No modern party nominee has lost so many states and gone forward to win in November

[Democrats Ascendant]

57. That's not how the General works.

Just more #BernieMath

[Vote2016]

58. Yes, that IS how general elections work. Weak primary candidates lose general elections.

[Garrett78]

84. The 2008 primary race was more competitive and Obama had no trouble winning in November.

These binary maps are terribly misleading, as I explained months ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511460282

And it's Sanders, not Clinton, who has done best in the 'reddest' parts of the US. Also, caucuses greatly suppress the vote.

[Vote2016]

86. Sanders will win more states than Hillary won in 2008. Your "binary map" blather is as unpersuasive

now as it was before it got stale and moldy.

[Garrett78]

87. Do you even comprehend why binary maps are misleading?

Do you get that they give no indication as to what the margin of victory was in each state? Do you get that they give no indication as to how many people voted in each state? Do you get that they give no indication as to whether the state held a primary or a vote-suppressing caucus?

You're essentially arguing that Wyoming carries the same weight as New York, yet it's my argument that is "unpersuasive?"

[BobbyDrake]

50. Indeed, the region called "United States of America" has awarded her the nomination in a landslide.

She's got a bigger winning margin this year than the winning margin Obama had 8 years ago.

[Vote2016]

62. What does "landslide" mean in your language?

[beachbum bob]

11. last time I looked...hillary has beaten sanders in every category by huge numbers that

actually count...votes, delegates and super delegates

june 16th cant come soon enough

[CobaltBlue]

64. beachbum bob—How has Hillary performed with those 18–29? …

They were the only voting-age group which nationally carried in 2004 for John Kerry?

[beachbum bob]

65. how did sanders do with the over 55? The minorities??

back to the young voters

young voters are at best unreliable...believe me, the election of a trump will have PROFOUND effect on THEIR lives more than any of us others....if they wish to sit and not vote....or go full in with TRUMP....well they will be living with results for the rest of their lives,,,and they would be deserving of it

this is the real world and decision have consequences...if young voters don't mind the consequences of a trump...the 3 supreme court judges he will most likely name and the dismantling of what we democrats have put together for 70 years
....I say go for it

I do have better faith in them....

[CobaltBlue]

76. beachbum—Please answer, rather than deflect, my question.

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. But your not counting, Field Goals ...

the system is rigged!

[onenote]

12. Or another way to look at it: Clinton has won 12 of the states carried by Obama

and Sanders has won 11. Three states plus DC remain to be decided.

Of Clinton's 12 wins in states carried by Obama, two were in caucuses. Of Sanders 11 wins in states carried by Obama, five were in caucuses (and when a non-binding primary was held in one of those states, Clinton carried it handily).

[redstateblues]

13. Hillary has 3 Million + more votes than Bernie

The people have spoken

[libdem4life]

49. This meme is getting old. I'm not even going to be the 51st poster

to explain the flaws in it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Only a cipher would say Florida is part of the Old South.

It is one of the most transient states in the nation.


BTW, did somebody move Nevada and Arizona from the western part of our nation to the central part?


What a mess...

[Vote2016]

63. I guess your history book was a cipher and I don't recall Nevada or Arizona having Pacific Ocean

beachfront properties.

[1StrongBlackMan]

95. I know ...

I saw that and thought I'd better buy a Parka, Boots and a Snow Shovel.

[B Calm]

19. How many of those southern states will she win in the GE?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Two of the three most important swing states-FL and VA.

Thanx for asking.

[B Calm]

21. That's all? Hoping it would be better than that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. What other southern states beside FL, VA, and NC has any Dem* carried this decade ?

*presidential candidate

[B Calm]

25. Here's the map.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

States carried by the Republican in all four elections
States carried by the Republican in three of the four elections
States carried by each party twice in the four elections
States carried by the Democrat in three of the four elections
States carried by the Democrat in all four elections

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Gore and Kerry carried no southern states.

PBO carried FL, VA, and NC in 08, VA and FL in 012.

[B Calm]

30. Click the link I added

[LanternWaste]

32. Let's carefully avoid asking the same question in regards to Sanders.

Let's carefully avoid asking the same question in regards to Sanders. One can only imagine the tortured rationalizations that would follow...

[1StrongBlackMan]

97. Come On, Utah!!!

[demwing]

27. not a damned one /nt

[mythology]

33. So we can take out Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, Wyoming, Alaska, Kansas and Oklahoma

out of Sanders totals right?

[B Calm]

34. Good point!

But I wonder how many of those Bernie states she'll carry in the GE.

[book_worm]

24. Give it up

Also primaries where more actual voters voted in Nebraska and Washington state went to Hillary. Sure they don't count, but it just shows you that if more people vote she wins (usually).

Also you have a funny classification of states.

I go by regions: New England, North Atlantic, Border States, Old South, Farm States, Industrial Midwest, Plains States and Pacific States.

For instance, Many people in Missouri think it is a Midwestern state while others in Southern Missouri believe it is a Southern State. It was classified during the Civil War as a border state that didn't leave the Union, so don't think it is really considered part of the "Old South."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Odd to claim NV and AZ are Central States...

[Renew Deal]

28. Sanders is undeafeated if you only count the states he won.

[Garrett78]

35. These binary maps are terribly, terribly misleading.

I wrote about this back in March: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511460282.

Those maps are so obviously misleading that promoting them is pure propaganda. Nobody can fail to see the flaw in those maps. Nobody over age 7, that is.

Not to mention the fact that caucuses suppress the vote in a big way. They simply aren't accessible for a lot of folks.

[NurseJackie]

60. Yep.

Thank you!

[Tarc]

39. What kind of loopy-dippy system groups Massachusetts with...Oklahoma as "Central" ???

How about we try again with legitimate regional breakdowns...

Northeast: 4 Sanders, 5 Clinton, 2 remaining
Central: 7/4/2
South: 1/13/0
West: 6/2/4

[Garrett78]

42. How about we dismiss these binary maps altogether?

Since they treat all margins of victory the same.

Since they don't indicate how many people voted in each state.

Since they don't account for how caucuses suppress the vote.

Since they're so obviously misleading that they're nothing more than a propaganda tool.

[Quayblue]

46. Lol @ loopy-dippy

I am borrowing this for later usage.

[senz]

40. Hill appeals to the redder portions of the country

which we Dems used to refer to as "low information."

Interesting.

[Garrett78]

41. One of the many false yet popular DU memes.

Here's a post I made back in March:

Since there are so many posts about Clinton's reliance on "deep red" states in her race against Sanders, I thought I'd start a new thread to address this issue. So, to get a general idea of which states are the 'reddest', I'm going to post Romney's approximate margin of victory in each state he won in 2012. Where the margin is basically the same, I will look at the exact percentage difference and rank accordingly.

1) Utah: 48 points
2) Wyoming: 41 points
3) Oklahoma: 34 points
4) Idaho: 32 points
5) West Virginia: 27 points
6) Arkansas: 24 points
7) Nebraska: 23 points
8) Kentucky: 22 points (22.7)
9) Alabama: 22 points (22.3)
10) Kansas: 22 points (22.2)
11) Tennessee: 20 points (20.5)
12) North Dakota: 20 points (19.8)
13) South Dakota: 18 points
14) Louisiana: 17 points
15) Texas: 16 points
16) Alaska: 14 points (14.0)
17) Montana: 14 points (13.5)
18) Mississippi: 12 points
19) South Carolina: 11 points (10.6)
20) Indiana: 11 points (10.5)
21) Arizona: 10 points (10.1)
22) Missouri: 10 points (9.6)
23) Georgia: 8 points
24) North Carolina: 2 points

So, can the Red State Meme be put to rest now?

[Tarc]

54. Hillary won the South on the strength of the African-American vote

The group that Sanders put little effort into courting beyond South Carolina.

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. And she appeals to the less white portions of the country, as well ...

which progressives now refer to as "low information."

Interesting.

[Garrett78]

99. Please don't give credence to the Clinton-Red argument.

Sanders is the one who has done best in the 'reddest' parts of the US, as I made clear in my reply to senz. The "Clinton has stronger appeal in red states" meme was false when people pushed it back in March, and it's a false meme now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. This is true; but, I just could let it pass ...

I was waiting the go to, and equally false, stock response ... &quot Why) Are you calling Sanders a racist!!!"

[Ferd Berfel]

43. "(give her credit, she swept the 13 states of the Old South) "

How many of these is she going to get in the GE?

1 or 2 (in a stretch)?


Clinton gonna win Texas? BUll Shit

Shinny object ....Shinny object

[Jitter65]

44. If it weren't for caucuses where would Sanders be? nt

[Garrett78]

45. Out of the race.

[Attorney in Texas]

108. Funny how Hillary never once complained about caucuses while she was in Iowa.

[Garrett78]

109. Who said she was complaining about them now?

A person can complain about them on DU without that even remotely suggesting that Clinton is complaining about them. Nobody posting here represents either candidate.

So, what's wrong with caucuses? Caucuses suppress the vote. Many working people, parents, persons with disabilities, people who wish to keep their vote private and others simply aren't able or willing to participate in a caucus. Even the meaningless Washington primary had higher turnout than the Washington caucus. As well as a much different result.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Who has more delegates?

[Darb]

52. Doesn't amount to a small pile of dogshit, though.

Doesn't mean shit and you know it.

[NurseJackie]

55. All those ACRES and not so many DELEGATES.

Hmmm.

[Garrett78]

59. There are multiple problems with these binary maps.

See post #35.

[DrDan]

66. 1,769 - 1,501 - that's all that matters

and your "old South" is condescending and offensive. SouthEast would be more appropriate.

[Major Hogwash]

67. Go Bernie!!

Bernie will win California.

[Sancho]

68. Population represented by Hillary: 213,324,491 Population represented by Bernie: 66,279,893

so Bernie represents about 31% of the number of people represented by Hillary (by state)?

You can create convoluted logic if you want, but Hillary has this one won. She deserves to win and clearly is the choice of the majority.

Yelling loudly does not produce more votes. Arbitrary choice of geography does not produce more votes.

Actually, Hillary has more...

-individual votes
-delegate votes
-total money raised
-endorsements by unions
-endorsements by newspapers
-endorsements by Democratic leaders

By all metrics, this was a slaughter - and Bernie lost badly. If there was a mercy rule this primary would have been called a month ago when it became obvious that he could not win. It's been good to keep Hillary on TV and helped GOTV, so a sparring partner is useful, but this primary was never in doubt.

[oberliner]

69. Hillary won IL, NY, and PA which have more people than all the other "North" states combined

Similarly, the states Hillary won in your "Central" category have significantly more people than the others.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Can you tell me how NV, AZ, CO, and NM became Central States?

[oberliner]

72. It's a bizarre premise

But even taking it at face value, it is still deceptive.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. My friend is a member of The Inner Circle of Advocates, you can google it.

All I will say is the seminal poster doesn't cover himself or his profession in glory.

[JoePhilly]

70. Sanders OWNS the states where almost no one lives.

[Nye Bevan]

73. Only #BernieGeography could put Idaho and NY in the same geographical region,

but Connecticut and NY in different ones.

This is quite amusing.

[Attorney in Texas]

79. Try to create your own 4 regions that encompass about a quarter of of the Democratic vote where the

voters in that region seem to trend together in terms of their primary preferences.

4 out of 5 states on the Pacific coast have voted, and all 4 voted for Sanders. That's a fairly easily defined region.

13 out of 13 states in the Old South have votes and they all voted for Hillary. That's a fairly easily defined region.

12 out of 14 states remaining states on the northern border (not including Washington and Alaska which are already in the West Coast region), and Sanders has won 2/3 of those states that have already voted so Sanders will win a majority regardless of how the remaining 2 states vote (and Sanders is well ahead in those two states so it is most likely Sanders will win 10 out of those 14 states). That's a fairly easily defined region.

15 of the remaining 18 states have voted, and Sanders has only a 1 state advantage with 3 states yet to vote. These 18 states added together account for less than a quarter of the Democratic voters so it does not lead to further division into multiple sub-regions (if you are trying to identify geographically definable regions where the voters have shown similar voting patterns in the primary as in the west coast, northern border, and southern regions). You can call these 18 states whatever you want, but if they are not on the west coast or on the northern border or part of the Old South, calling them "the Center" makes as much sense as any other label.

As far as putting NY and Connecticut in different regions, NY is on the northern border of the US and Connecticut isn't. As far as putting NY and Idaho in the same region, they are both on the northern border of the US.

You can divide the states into whatever regions you prefer, but you are missing the point if you fail to note that

(1) Hillary is not very popular on the west coast,
(2) Sanders is noticeably stronger than Hillary in the states that share a border with Canada,
(3) Hillary's support is concentrated in the south and Sanders has won almost twice as many states as Hillary (20 to 11) outside of that region, and
(4) in the 18 states that don't border the Pacific and don't border Canada and are not part of the Old South, there are patches where Sanders does better and patches where Hillary does better.

[Nye Bevan]

80. "NY and Idaho are both on the Northern border of the US".

Elbridge Gerry would be proud.

[Attorney in Texas]

81. Is your eye immune from perceiving the fact that Hillary's and Sanders' strongest states cluster

near one another?

Do you see no pattern on the Pacific Coast states or the Deep South states or in the states that border Canada or in the Western Plateau and Mountain states?

[Garrett78]

82. Do you not see the numerous flaws with binary maps?

They give no indication of the margin of victory. They give no indication of population size. They give no indication as to whether the state held a primary or a vote-suppressing caucus.

You're using the same tactic Bush people used following the 2000 debacle. A binary map (red and blue counties instead of states) to give the impression that Dubya's support was far more widespread than it was.

I went over this months ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511460282

Not to mention that it's Sanders who has done best in the 'reddest' parts of the US.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. As the lawyers say "res ipsa loquitur".

CENSUS MAP

[Attorney in Texas]

85. You can chop the country into 9 pieces instead of 4 regions, but result in the same. Sanders is

favored in the 5 out of 9 regions and Hillary is favored in just 4 of 9 regions that are all contiguous to one another:

Pacific on your map: Sanders (at least 4 out of 5 states with 1 voting next week)

Alaska - Sanders
California -???
Hawaii - Sanders
Oregon - Sanders
Washington - Sanders

Mountain on your map: Sanders (at least 4 out of 8 states with 2 voting next week and Sanders far ahead in Montana)

Arizona - Hillary
Colorado - Sanders
Idaho - Sanders
Montana - ???
Nevada - Hillary
New Mexico - ???
Utah - Sanders
Wyoming - Sanders

West North Central on your map: Sanders (3 out of 7 states with 2 voting next week and Sanders far ahead in North and South Dakota)

Iowa - Hilary
Kansas - Sanders
Minnesota - Sanders
Nebraska - Sanders
North Dakota - ???
South Dakota - ???

East North Central on your map: Sanders (3 out of 5 states)

Illinois - Hillary
Indiana - Sanders
Michigan - Sanders
Ohio - Hillary
Wisconsin - Sanders

New England on your map: Sanders (4 out of 6 states)

Connecticut - Hillary
Maine - Sanders
Massachusetts - Hillary
New Hampshire - Sanders
Rhode Island - Sanders
Vermont - Sanders

Hillary won 3 out of 4 West South Central states in your map, she swept the 7 East South Central and Mid Atlantic states and won 7 out of 8 South Atlantic states.

Cutting up the map as you suggest does not change the fact that Hillary's support is geographically limited, and she has lost a majority of contests outside of her region of support:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. My mom was a successful litigant in a med-mal case that cost millions of dollars ...

My mom was a successful litigant in a med-mal case that cost millions of dollars to litigate and settle... Her attorney* is a member of the prestigious Inner Circle Of Advocates, of which John Edwards used to be a member. I am aware of every lawyerly sleight of hand in the books... Respectfully, your obscurantist arguments may be novel to the other denizens of this board, but not to me...

You can move Nevada from the western part of the nation to the central part of the nation. You can portray Florida as part of the old south despite it being one of the most transient states in the nation. You can put Idaho in the same region as New York. You can say a win in populous Texas is tantamount to a win in sparsely populated Alaska...

But

Drum roll please...

...


at the end of the day people vote and not regions or acreage.


P.S. Her mom was an attorney in Texas and she knew Gerry Spence and the great Racehorse Haynes.

[Attorney in Texas]

89. I used YOUR map. Hillary's just unappealing North of the 42nd parallel and West of the 95th Meridian

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. I used to go to the court house to read the depositions.

One of my favorite depositions was from my mom's general physician, not the one whose negligence caused her to lose her leg. He said to the lawyer deposing him "you're like a pitcher, first you throw the ball over the plate, then you throw it on the side..."

C'mon... You take a simple proposition, throw smoke in the air, and hope people get so confused they don't see what is right before their eyes.

People vote, not regions or acreage... Surely you are not going to tell me to disbelieve that.

BTW, I love counsel, just not opposing counsel. My mom's counsel was righteous...

[Attorney in Texas]

92. I believe Hillary's unfavorable and untrustworthy rating is higher than any Democratic candidate

ever (I presume you agree that is indisputable), after next Tuesday she will have lost more states than any Democratic candidate since the invention of the modern primary system (I presume you agree that Sanders is favored in Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota and wins in two of those three states will give him more state wins than Hillary had in 2008), and this election is very different from 2008 because the division in party this year is based on ideology and there was not a big ideological difference between Obama and Hillary in 2008 so the rift was personal (which is easy to fix) and not ideological (which is harder to fix because it is based on people's core beliefs).

I believe that Hillary is capable of beating Trump, and I believe she is capable of losing to Trump.

If Hillary has the wisdom to fix the rift in the party by encouraging a progressive platform, by supporting party reforms, by choosing a uniting VP candidate rather than a VP candidate who will exacerbate the rift, by insisting the convention be inclusive, she can unite the party and win.

If Hillary lacks that wisdom, we can buckle in and hope to take the House and Senate in 2018 and perhaps the Presidency in 2020, but 2016 will be an epic fail.

That's what I believe.

PS - Sorry about your mom's leg.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. My mom was an incredible woman. There is not a day I don't think of her quiet bravery.

She fell at 78 years old and broke her hip... She threw a clot , which despite the orthopedist having multiple opportunities to diagnose it never did, and she consequently lost her leg from the complications. In a period of sixty days this seventy eight year old woman had a hip pinning, a femoral-popliteal bypass, and a below the knee amputation. She eventually received a prosthesis and could walk with a walker. She lived to 90 !!! but she was never independent again...

Corporate defense lawyers are arrogant , especially med mal defense attorneys, probably because they win 90% of their cases that go to court because there is such a bias in favor of physicians that they can never be wrong... Florida has caps...They are an abomination but that's a topic for another day... They could have settled the case for $250, 000.00 for pain and suffering which is chump change for a limb... They didn't settle and ended up spending millions to litigate and settle the case. It was a eight day trial...

My mom's attorney has won 8 figure verdicts which is big for Central Florida... One of her clients was a laborer with a common law wife and three children who was developing an aneurysm. He didn't have medical insurance and when he presented to the emergency room the ER physician sent him home and told him to get insurance. Several days later the aneurysm developed and it killed him... That was a $50,000,000.00 verdict !!!

My mom's attorney was rich but a justice warrior. She spent her weekends of the Summer of 08 registering Haitian americans to vote in the working class suburbs of Orlando.

[Garrett78]

96. He/she refuses to acknowledge the multiple glaring flaws with binary maps.

They give no indication as to the number of people who voted in each state (Wyoming carries the same weight as New York, right?). They give no indication as to the margin of victory (who cares that Michigan and Massachusetts were essentially ties, right?). They give no indication as to whether the state held a primary or a vote-suppressing caucus (or both, as in the case of Washington).

The quantity of states argument is so ridiculous that it's hard to believe anyone actually makes that argument. I almost have to assume we're being punked, except that absurd arguments are par for the course around here.

[randome]

101. STATES ARE PEOPLE, TOO, MY FRIEND!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. I don't want to beat a dead horse but at the end of the day people vote not acreage.

Remember this map from 00:

[Garrett78]

105. Yep, that's what I was referencing in post #82.

Actually, the one I recall seeing was even worse. At least that one has a few different shades for each color. The one I remember was strictly red or blue. And of course it appeared to be almost entirely red--never mind that Gore received more votes.

16 years later and we're seeing bush-league tactics (pun intended) on display in this thread.

[B Calm]

74. Sanders vs Trump, Sanders will probably carry 50 states.

[sharp_stick]

78. And yet he still trails by millions of votes n/t

[workinclasszero]

91. Old south = dog whistle

Still trying to cut the base of the democratic party out of the picture I see.

[still_one]

103. your guy lost. GET OVER IT ALREADY

[tonyt53]

104. But will they still get the free stuff - college education and healthcare if they do?

[still_one]

106. they should go ask their leader. Good one tony