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politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:15 PM Dec 2012

So a month after the election the truth can finally be told.

Last edited Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I've been gone for the past few days and just saw this over on Huffington Post so forgive me if this has already been discussed. (I did do a quick search, two pages on DU and saw nothing). Finally a pair of journalists exposes what we all already knew, that the Repugnants were willing to say anything to win this election, and the main stream media were content to sit on the sidelines and let it happen because 1) they didn't want to be accused of the liberal bias, and 2) in many cases their livelihood depended on it, and 3) their networks and show producers wanted to see horserace with a winner by a nose and not by a mile.

"...The Apostasy

Ornstein and Mann's big coming out took place in late April, when the Washington Post's Outlook section published their essay "Admit it. The Republicans are worse", adapted from their book It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism, which went on sale a few days later.

Political journalists had no doubt heard similar arguments many times before, mostly from left wing bloggers. But this time the charge was coming from two of the most consistent purveyors of conventional wisdom in town, bipartisan to a fault. ...

..."Post-mortems of contemporary election coverage typically include regrets about horserace journalism, he-said-she-said stenography, and the lack of enlightening stories about the issues.

But according to longtime political observers Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein, campaign coverage in 2012 was a particularly calamitous failure, almost entirely missing the single biggest story of the race: Namely, the radical right-wing, off-the-rails lurch of the Republican Party, both in terms of its agenda and its relationship to the truth.

Mann and Ornstein are two longtime centrist Washington fixtures who earlier this year dramatically rejected the strictures of false equivalency that bind so much of the capital's media elite and publicly concluded that GOP leaders have become "ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

The 2012 campaign further proved their point, they both said in recent interviews. It also exposed how fabulists and liars can exploit the elite media's fear of being seen as taking sides.

"The mainstream press really has such a difficult time trying to cope with asymmetry between the two parties' agendas and connections to facts and truth," said Mann, who has spent nearly three decades as a congressional scholar at the centrist Brookings Institution.

"I saw some journalists struggling to avoid the trap of balance and I knew they were struggling with it -- and with their editors," said Mann. "But in general, I think overall it was a pretty disappointing performance."

"I can't recall a campaign where I've seen more lying going on -- and it wasn't symmetric," said Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute who's been tracking Congress with Mann since 1978. Democrats were hardly innocent, he said, "but it seemed pretty clear to me that the Republican campaign was just far more over the top."

Lies from Republicans generally and standardbearer Mitt Romney in particular weren't limited to the occasional TV ads, either; the party's most central campaign principles -- that federal spending doesn't create jobs, that reducing taxes on the rich could create jobs and lower the deficit -- willfully disregarded the truth.

"It's the great unreported big story of American politics," Ornstein said.

"If voters are going to be able to hold accountable political figures, they've got to know what's going on," Ornstein said. "And if the story that you're telling repeatedly is that they're all to blame -- they're all equally to blame -- then you're really doing a disservice to voters, and not doing what journalism is supposed to do."

Ornstein said the media's failure led him to conclude: "If you want to use a strategy of 'I'm just going to lie all the time', when you have the false equivalence meme adopted by a mainstream press and the other side lies a quarter of the time, you get away with it." ... see link below for rest of the story


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-froomkin/republican-lies-2012-election_b_2258586.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So a month after the election the truth can finally be told. (Original Post) politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2012 OP
I heard Ornstein interviewed on Terry Gross AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #1
Ornstein used to be a regular on Al Franken's AirAmerica radio show back in 2005. Al used to CTyankee Dec 2012 #4
I always looked forward to and enjoyed Ornstein's commentary Sugarcoated Dec 2012 #37
Heard that, too. As to being harassed at AEI... Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #10
No. No I would not AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #12
This attitude by the press has caused untold damage to this country. IMO nt Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #2
The press reporting during the campaign was dismal. Laurian Dec 2012 #3
Considering the above, for der Mittens to have gotten 47% of the vote is indepat Dec 2012 #5
I have seen almost a sea change in the way the press is handling things these days than back in CTyankee Dec 2012 #6
Have to disagree. And maybe it's just my sensitivity that's gone up, but >>> Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2012 #8
It became pretty obvious and laughable. Morning Joe was among the most humorous, what with CTyankee Dec 2012 #16
Today.Scar began trotting out.. butterfly77 Dec 2012 #32
well, what do you expect from republicans? Of course they will make the best case they can! CTyankee Dec 2012 #33
Not just the press.Since Citizens United-all of TV viewing is a soapox of ads MichiganVote Dec 2012 #7
We had fewer ads on TV this cycle than in any election I can remember. Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #22
When they want you, you'll see it too. Ugly here. MichiganVote Dec 2012 #28
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #9
What do you expect... Unknown Beatle Dec 2012 #11
The media has been an abject failure since at least the year 2001. And they've only gotten worse. JaneyVee Dec 2012 #13
It's been an abject failure since 1980. Joe Bacon Dec 2012 #19
Shape of Earth: Views Differ Martin Eden Dec 2012 #14
Watch this... 2naSalit Dec 2012 #15
K & R Scurrilous Dec 2012 #17
rate violations by frequency & severity jimmy the one Dec 2012 #18
Math's not my thing but if 1 side lies all the time and the other side lies a quarter of the time... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2012 #20
I agree. Just because one side lies 1/4 of the time it doesnt restrict the other side to only 3/4 of rhett o rick Dec 2012 #25
Snopes zipplewrath Dec 2012 #21
I think we're both wrong, gidney jimmy the one Dec 2012 #23
Mittens ran a campaign so full of lies it was laughable. Jennicut Dec 2012 #24
while in the earlier hours Morning Joe was telling us all that "this thing is really close." CTyankee Dec 2012 #35
The Corporate Media isn't even making the point that Mittens only got 47% of the vote. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #26
Truth be told, they couldn't find two wise men in the Republican party Coyotl Dec 2012 #27
Thanks for posting. I almost posted yesterday but assumed it already had been since days old. nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2012 #29
THanks. Glad I didn't miss this. lindysalsagal Dec 2012 #30
the k Berlum Dec 2012 #31
Media's failure includes "entertainment" that in most instances is either infantalized or patrice Dec 2012 #34
Yeah, I think we noticed, lol! Cha Dec 2012 #36
It's become Sugarcoated Dec 2012 #38
 

AldoLeopold

(617 posts)
1. I heard Ornstein interviewed on Terry Gross
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:23 PM
Dec 2012

He's freaking brilliant and my new hero. What's amazing is that he works for AEI - though he claims he's never been harassed over there.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
4. Ornstein used to be a regular on Al Franken's AirAmerica radio show back in 2005. Al used to
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:32 PM
Dec 2012

intro him by singing (badly) "NORM in the USA!" until Ornstein told him to knock it off. Al said he thought Norm had the best mind in Washington. It gave me food for thought...

Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
37. I always looked forward to and enjoyed Ornstein's commentary
Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:14 AM
Dec 2012

And I still miss Al's show. Every time Rmoney changed a position on something I could hear his 'Flip.....Flop' bit in my head

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
10. Heard that, too. As to being harassed at AEI...
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:01 PM
Dec 2012

Would *you* want to be the person trying to give Ornstein a hard time?

The guy isn't just a smart guy, he's pretty much smarter that most people, period.

He'd make you beg him to stop making you look foolish.


I'd never want to try, I can make a fool of myself without any help.

Laurian

(2,593 posts)
3. The press reporting during the campaign was dismal.
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:31 PM
Dec 2012

The credibility of the media dropped several notches this cycle. They were basically mouthpieces for the campaigns and did little/nothing to analyze and compare the candidates or their positions. Their quest to find equivalencies for everything was pathetic.

Any Tom, Dick or Hariette could have done as well. Apparently, no knowledge or critical thinking skills are required to report on elections anymore.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
5. Considering the above, for der Mittens to have gotten 47% of the vote is
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:38 PM
Dec 2012

inexplicable, a damning general indictment of the ignorance, lack of cognitive reasoning, and prejudice of a significant portion of the electorate.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
6. I have seen almost a sea change in the way the press is handling things these days than back in
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:43 PM
Dec 2012

2008. The "both sides do it" rhetoric has calmed considerably from what it was, altho it is still there to some extent. Fox is losing its lustre fast. We have some nice liberal shows on msnbc. Ornstein and Mann are just telling the truth. Simple, isn't it?

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)
8. Have to disagree. And maybe it's just my sensitivity that's gone up, but >>>
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:26 PM
Dec 2012

>>>to me the "both sides do it" stuff this election cycle was beyond the cautious, polite, don't piss off the crazies attitude of past years.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
16. It became pretty obvious and laughable. Morning Joe was among the most humorous, what with
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:25 AM
Dec 2012

Mika being set up as a "liberal" who was just tellin' the truth and backing up Joe at every turn. It didn't take long for people to catch on to the real game.

 

butterfly77

(17,609 posts)
32. Today.Scar began trotting out..
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:29 PM
Dec 2012

the so called good republiCONS. The both sides do no matter what the issue,this had me so angry during the campaign.


I had the take a break because I couldn't take all of the lies by the so called liberal media,and this has been going on for decades.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
33. well, what do you expect from republicans? Of course they will make the best case they can!
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 08:09 PM
Dec 2012

Joe is trying to put lipstick on the pig here. He probably knows it and if he doesn't he's more stupid than I think he is.

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
7. Not just the press.Since Citizens United-all of TV viewing is a soapox of ads
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:10 PM
Dec 2012

for some republican political thing or another. None of this is relegated to Fox news alone anymore. Big money is paying big bucks to convince the population of all kinds of things. The sale of the US continues....

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
22. We had fewer ads on TV this cycle than in any election I can remember.
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:10 AM
Dec 2012

We are not a 'swing State' so we don't get that 'soap box of ads'.

Joe Bacon

(5,165 posts)
19. It's been an abject failure since 1980.
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 09:44 AM
Dec 2012

I still remember how most of our corporate controlled conservative press kissed Reagan's ass and worshipped the ground he walked on.

Martin Eden

(12,867 posts)
14. Shape of Earth: Views Differ
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:07 AM
Dec 2012

In their misguided effort to appear balanced, journalists give equal weight to both sides -- even when one side is seriously detached from reality.

Paul Krugman pointed this out in the 2000 election when he said that if GW Bush asserted the Earth was flat, the headline the next day would read (refer to the reply title of this post).

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
18. rate violations by frequency & severity
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 08:59 AM
Dec 2012

ornstein: "If you want to use a strategy of 'I'm just going to lie all the time', when you have the false equivalence meme adopted by a mainstream press and the other side lies a quarter of the time, you get away with it."

Similar to what I've been saying for years, that there are two ways to compare violations & offenses: 1) frequency of offenses, and 2) severity of offense.
When you rank offenses by severity (say a scale of light, middlin', heavy), republicans generally have a higher frequency, more offenses compared to democrats, within each category of light, middling, & heavy.

.. campaign violations warrant fines imposed by federal election commission I think it is, and several years back repubs had about double the fines than democrats in campaign violations. Then moveon-dotorg committed some grand (national not local iirc) violation & was fined one of the largest fines ever meted out*, & simply brought the two sides to parity (altho it did remove a good talking point from democrat vocabulary).

Ornstein, in his sentence above, cites the frequency of violations when he notes 'the other side lies a quarter of the time', which would leave 3 quarters of lies by the 'other side', or a 3 to 1 ratio of lies. He doesn't actually say repubs lied 3 times more than dems, but that sounds about right. Then repubs twist this into 'false equivalence' ornstein mentions, bleating 'democrats lie too nyahh nyahh'.
To listen to limbaugh tho, he'd rename democrats the pinocchio party.

* about a million dollarios iirc.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)
20. Math's not my thing but if 1 side lies all the time and the other side lies a quarter of the time...
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 09:46 AM
Dec 2012

...isn't that actually a 4:1 ratio?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
25. I agree. Just because one side lies 1/4 of the time it doesnt restrict the other side to only 3/4 of
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:00 PM
Dec 2012

the time. They still can lie 100% of the time.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
21. Snopes
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:05 AM
Dec 2012

Go to snopes. They have a whole section on politically based myths. The ratio of democratic/liberal/left myths to wing nut myths is AT LEAST 4 to one.

The "big lie" that absolutely no one is talking about is how for months this year leading up to the election, ALL of the media kept talking about how "close" the race was, and how much of a "toss up" it was. Problem is the math just doesn't support that. First of all, even the campaigns had it all down to about 8 states by June. Second, both campaigns virtually agreed on all the other states and that left Obama with a VERY large lead in the EC. Almost any rational analysis would have it approaching "insurmountable" by all but the most extrodinary events. By late summer, Nate had Obama winning by a 75% chance and it only ever dipped into the mid '60s, and not for very long. Any rational, balance, honest, story on the election would have had to discuss it in these terms. Any rational discussion would have been about what Romney would have to do to "catch up" or "get in the race" or any other bit of boiler plate. Any honest analysis would have discussed Romney TOTAL lack of progress AT ALL over the summer to make any progress. But week after week I would watch practically EVERYONE talk about how close, about minor changes in national polls, and nary a word about the FACT that the race wasn't anywhere CLOSE at all.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
23. I think we're both wrong, gidney
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:37 AM
Dec 2012

gidney: isn't that actually a 4:1 ratio?

You have a point that my 3 to 1 ratio is likely not what ornstein implied. I took it, possibly errantly, that if dems lied 1/4 the time then the remaining time was 3/4, which would indeed be 3 to 1. But that's not what ornstein meant (mea culpa), and since he didn't note how often 'repubs' lied, I don't think we can say for sure what ornstein thinks the proportion is.
I doubt ornstein meant repubs lied 'all the time' which would make your 4-1 ratio correct, but alas I doubt we'll ever know. But if he meant dems lied 1/4 the time compared with repubs, then you'd be correct.

that's a new name for me, gidney, never come across it before. Btw, I'm not an egotist nor some grandiose 'one' savior. Jimmy the one is an english naval term for the executive officer on board RMS ships of size, there's a 'jimmy' on board who is second in command behind their captain. We call USN captains 'the old man' similarly. Developed from King James-I, king james the first, somehow, jimmy the first etc.
I just adopted it as appropo to an english msg bd I frequent, & held on to it, you know how screennames stick sometimes.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
24. Mittens ran a campaign so full of lies it was laughable.
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:44 AM
Dec 2012

And sad that many in the media did not call them out. We had Big Ed, Chris Matthews, Al Sharpton, Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell calling out the lies. Maybe a few more liberal pundits. But on CNN? Pitiful. The big 3 broadcast nightly news was all false equivalence. Faux became a parody of itself on election night. Abysmal performance and that was just on tv. Online and in newspapers was not much better.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
35. while in the earlier hours Morning Joe was telling us all that "this thing is really close."
Tue Dec 11, 2012, 03:41 AM
Dec 2012

Joe would get that serious look on his face and say it over and over again. He tried SO hard. But the election reality really bit him in the ass, didn't it?

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
26. The Corporate Media isn't even making the point that Mittens only got 47% of the vote.
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:24 PM
Dec 2012

It would ruin their narrative than the race is/was "close".

patrice

(47,992 posts)
34. Media's failure includes "entertainment" that in most instances is either infantalized or
Mon Dec 10, 2012, 08:13 PM
Dec 2012

gratuitously and extremely violent.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
36. Yeah, I think we noticed, lol!
Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:02 AM
Dec 2012
Ornstein said the media's failure led him to conclude: "If you want to use a strategy of 'I'm just going to lie all the time', when you have the false equivalence meme adopted by a mainstream press and the other side lies a quarter of the time, you get away with it."


The Miracle is .. we beat the Koch Party and the US corporatemediawhore Plutocrats WITH FACTS! Thank Goodness for Social Media.. Twitter, The Net, Etc, Etc, Etc~

But, I want the US corporate media to be held accountable. We have some truths getting through but they all should be clamoring to get the REAL NEWS FIRST.. Not, the celebrity rag route like the Globe(who can tell the ugliest LIES).
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