2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy did Hillary Clinton lose the GE?
Please pick the response you believe most relevant. Obviously most of us agree a number of factors played a role, but I'd like to see which people rank first.
33 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
The vote counts were hacked or otherwise fraudulent | |
8 (24%) |
|
Jim Comey | |
4 (12%) |
|
TPP-economic policies | |
0 (0%) |
|
Racism and misogyny | |
3 (9%) |
|
Voter suppression | |
1 (3%) |
|
Hillary was too flawed | |
15 (45%) |
|
Third party voters | |
0 (0%) |
|
The divisive nature of the primary | |
1 (3%) |
|
Obstacles of an Incumbent party following 8yr presidency | |
1 (3%) |
|
Identity politics | |
0 (0%) |
|
2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
JI7
(89,262 posts)campaign in the 3 blue midwestern states it would have overcome it .
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)BainsBane
(53,054 posts)FBaggins
(26,757 posts)Her closing strategy was awful.
mvd
(65,180 posts)Because the election turned on traditionally blue PA and Midwestern states (though WI has become pretty tricky for us to win in lately), I blame the lack of a strong populist message the most. It was an outsider's election. Other factors were Comey, the media, voter suppression, racism, low favorability for Clinton - it all became a terrible "perfect storm" and the People's President didn't get the win.
JI7
(89,262 posts)to pro free trade , pro business traditional romney type republicans like johnson and portman.
and Johnson and Portman did better than Trump.
mvd
(65,180 posts)if Clinton did better. There's no doubt in my mind it was a big factor. You even said she should have campaigned there more.
JI7
(89,262 posts)mvd
(65,180 posts)Some of those people may have voted Johnson instead of Trump. But if Clinton got more votes, it would have definiteiy had an an effect.
JI7
(89,262 posts)against that.
Read my post carefully. I also edited.
I think some Republicans didn't like other aspects of Trump's message and either voted 3rd party or left that part blank. I know Clinton lost a couple usually blue counties in PA due to the working class being fooled yet again. It's really sad.
Interesting discussion.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)Was the number one factor is directly contradicted by the fact Democrats with those views received fewer votes than Clinton. Data does matter if the goal is to learn for future elections rather than simply confirm what one wants to be true.
mvd
(65,180 posts)I do think we need a more populist message, but I think it is also obvious Clinton would have gotten more votes with it in the states she needed. It is not only free trade. It was a general worry about jobs and not being very well off. They put their trust in the wrong person.
putitinD
(1,551 posts)statement that TPP was the gold standard. Bad trade deals are killing the Democratic party.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)His timing sure was great. Our press ate it all up and wouldn't shut up about it. When this happened experts like Nate Silver were saying it could cost her 1-2 points at most.
Well, turns out she couldn't afford to lose 2 points. Three states where she lost by one point or less would have won the election.
RandySF
(59,158 posts)Whenever a Dem wins a state, the explanation is there are so many people in the metropolitan areas. But magically, Trump is declared winner and the new explanation is there were too many people in outstate counties. Both can't be true.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)And ballot access.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Was there any trick they didn't pull?
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)controlled Senate and House as well as the vast majority of Republican-controlled Governorships and state legislatures. Can't blame one person on this tidal wave. That would be unfair IMO.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)behavior on the Left, voter suppression efforts, gerrymandering, Right wing media pedaling hate and racial animus, lack of public interest with fact finding, generational shift in world economic balance......the list goes on and on.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)Though I forced myself to pick what I believe was the most influential.
global1
(25,263 posts)It was the Repug Party that gridlocked Congress and the President. It was the Repugs that gave us wars and a recession.
The Dems didn't campaign on these issues - they campaign against Trump - the personality.
So the Repug Party floated through the campaign unscathed and didn't shoulder any of the blame.
Trump blamed the lack of anything getting done on the establishment Dems and the President and then he painted Hillary as 4 more years of the establishment.
In hindsight - they should have went after the Repug Party.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Kaine should have gone after Pence instead of Trump in the debate. The pardon, the abortion laws, etc. Lots of issues that might have helped. I think lots of people voted for President Pence. No one is aware that he was one of the strongest backers of the Iraq invasion including arguing on the House floor long after it had become obvious that it was an epic disaster. He was also a big supporter of NAFTA updates.
dogman
(6,073 posts)To know the real failure we would have to know the campaign's overall strategy. They sure seem to have believed they had it in the bag and were even going to take Congress. They did not protect their base, but we don't know what was their idea of base. Arrogance or misinformation? I think those that ran the campaign know, but are unlikely to share the truth with us. More importantly is the question of the lesson learned. Will we ever learn the truth from the professionals who have their self-preservation in mind?
tandem5
(2,072 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There's no inherent contradiction, for example, between recognizing that racism and sexism played a role and be;ieving that the insistence on leaving wiggle-room on TPP also played a major role.
Most of those who prioritize social justice and to fight bigotry also want us to be clear that we will stand up to corporate power, and virtually all of those who prioritize economic justice are deeply committed to fighting social oppression and bigotry.
And our chances of regaining the presidency, Congress AND, most importantly in the short-term control of state legislatures hinge on reconciling and establishing trust between both justice struggles-neither of which benefits from the other being set aside.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)This is one of those things. But I think the one that jumps out most glaringly was Comey dropping that thing 11 days before the election, in a major break with policy and precedence.
I would add that, in terms of vote hacking and the like- I find it incredibly odd how off the polls- all of them- were. It strikes me as too glaring a difference to write off without demanding some serious questions as to what the fuck happened, there.
But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and it's way too easy for the losing side to go "it was rigged". Without at least some objective evidence I personally can't fall back on that as an explanation.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)I do have concerns based on what I've read, but I'm not prepared to make the charge without far more compelling evidence.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)For a first time, and he'd have lost.
Too much outside interference.
Hillary clearly had "some" kind of lead until the FBI stepped in, then on top of that you of course had the obligatory voter suppression/voter disenfranchisement before and of course during the day of voting. Then, you add a NEW GOP friend to the mix: The Russians, who our government said definitely interfered/hacked it's way into our elections.
tRump said the election was rigged against him...
BUT ...
He's a MASTER of projection
BlueProgressive
(229 posts)But we may still have been robbed. Again.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)That, and like you say many of the above factors too.
Freddie
(9,273 posts)She WON except for the fact that she ran up the score with "worthless" voters (folks in CA, NY, WA). Which is the most ridiculously unfair "system" on the planet.
DFW
(54,436 posts)She lost the presidency, not the election. Ask Al Gore how that goes.
Mike Nelson
(9,964 posts)...Hillary Clinton won the GE. She lost the electoral college due to Trump stirring up racism.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)on stripping the VRA and redistricting finally arrived in this election.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)many a good man
(5,997 posts)LexVegas
(6,091 posts)think
(11,641 posts)doesn't make your case very well.....
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And using the perennial RW lies to support your position is automatic disqualification.
think
(11,641 posts)Here are the results of a poll of Clinton supporters pointing out Hillary's flaws:
By Aaron Blake September 11 2016
~Snip~
But exactly why? Part of the reason for this enthusiasm gap appears to be that Clinton voters see real flaws in their candidate.
The poll shows fully 57 percent of Clinton voters say their candidate is "too willing to bend the rules." Another 34 percent disapprove of Clinton's handling of her email problems, 31 percent are concerned about potential conflicts of interest with the Clinton Foundation, 29 percent say she did special favors for donors as secretary of state, and 27 percent say she's not honest and trustworthy.
Read more:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/11/hillary-clinton-voters-see-plenty-of-flaws-in-their-candidate/
baldguy
(36,649 posts)All those "issues" originated as RW propaganda, and are thus false.
underpants
(182,868 posts)Comey
Not ready for female POTUS
Voter suppression/intimidation
SCOTUS Voting Rights Act
25 years of attacks/trustworthiness
GOP stuck with emails throughout
GOTV
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's obvious.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)The system is crazy.
BainsBane
(53,054 posts)And we went for Clinton.