2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFolks, I think there is now a solid case to impeach and convict Donald Trump
based upon the actual sentences that have come out of his own mouth in the last few days.
This is not some conspiracy theory or wishful thinking.
In the last couple of days or so, Trump himself made it clear to the entire world that he lied to his supporters all throughout his campaign. Right after he "won," as evidenced in his recent interviews with the press, he flip-flopped on all the biggest promises he made to his supporters (jailing Hillary, Obamacare, climate change, etc etc). He admitted that he lied about everything without actually saying the words, "I lied about everything."
By immediately flip-flopping on all the biggest promises he made to his supporters, it is now obvious to everyone on both sides of the fence that his entire campaign was a farce. It was one big opportunistic con. One big lie designed to garner votes. IOW, it was clearly FRAUD, as evidenced by Trump's own words of the last few days. To everyone who was too naive (a more tactful way of saying they were incredibly dumb) to realize he was lying all throughout the campaign, even they now understand it. They might not admit out loud, but they understand they've been conned.
Based on everything that Trump has said in recent days (See his NY Times interview), it is now obvious that he RIGGED AN ELECTION BY PURPOSELY LYING about what he would do if he was elected president.
If he had said the same things throughout his campaign that he has said in the last few days, very very few of his voters would have voted for him. He surely wouldn't have made it through the Republican Primary, had he said then what he is saying now. It should now be perfectly clear to Republicans that Donald Trump has betrayed them. They should be the first ones calling for his impeachment, not because they would ever think it's the honorable thing to do, but because they now realize they just got screwed.
I remember when someone was impeached for telling a lie about an affair with a woman. Well here we now have someone in Donald Trump who, in essence, admitted he told nothing BUT lies TO STEAL A UNITED STATES PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. If that isn't grounds for impeachment, then nothing is.
tanyev
(42,598 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(7,290 posts)We should impeach Presidents for lying during a campaign? In that case, every President in history would have been impeached.
He'll most likely do enough to be impeached once he's in office.
Richard D
(8,761 posts)Not sure that'll be any better.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)That would definitely be worse.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I think the bland Pence would be easier to beat in 2020. As deplorable as Trump is, he was able to turn out the KKK/Neo Nazi vote and he played the media like a fiddle. No reason to think that would change if Trump was still around.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)I just don't happen to think that Trump will still be around. And depending on how the next four years go and what sort of enthusiasm and quality candidate the Democratic party finds, will determine what happens in 2020.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)At the state levels, the GOP will put in even more voter restrictions targeting urban voters and students. Definitely played a part in a few of the close states, I think. Will likely hurt the Democrats even more in 2018 and 2020.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)After gutting the Voting Rights Act, the door is wide open unfortunately.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Your analogy of putting Trump in the same boat as Hillary, Bernie, Bill, or any other presidential candidate for "lying during a campaign" is ridiculous.
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,290 posts)What a shocker! All politicians knowingly lie during their campaigns.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Obviously you enjoy doing just that.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)But it won't happen until the republican party decides to get rid of him. They are going to please their corporate masters by doing everything they want to do and when the economy inevitably tanks, Trump will be the fall guy
B2G
(9,766 posts)Seriously? Have you really thought this through?
johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)...without concern, the media will always be "corrupt", and you'll only be able to "trust" his tweets. Also, the Republicans are so power hungry, they will continually look the other way, and give DT a pass on his massive criminal enterprise.
Nightmare scenario.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Trump wasn't under oath during the campaign. This is silly.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)That's called being a politician. Lying under oath is impeachable. Lying on the campaign is not. Even if you don't intentd to keep those promises.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Lets get the house and get him sworn in in front of a committee. Then he will most definitely perjure himself.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)I guess we'll just have to see what happens and keep our fingers crossed.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Lying to get elected isn't covered. That's on the dumb fucks who couldn't see through it.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)Not a freaking chance.
Vinca
(50,302 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)And I don't think it would be too hard to prove he intentionally defrauded his voters. He went a little above and beyond the usual amount of lying that takes place in campaigns, in case you didn't notice.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Yet people are freaking out about what he said during the election (and is now backing off what is arguable the worst of it).
Which is it? Fear of what he said, or anger and indictment at not following through?
I'm actually glad he is backing off his "promises".
Johnny2X2X
(19,107 posts)Certainly no Republican, he could shoot someone and they won't lift a finger against him, he already has an enemies list of people he will make pay and this guy just used the FBI to get elected before he even had any authority over the FBI, what do you think the FBI will do for Trump now?
we are just going along for the ride now ...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And I don't trust him not to flip flop again if it suits him.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Who the hell do you think you are to tell anyone to get a grip? Are you some kind of expert or something?
TygrBright
(20,763 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)build a wall that Mexico pays for, repeal ACA, and whatever else he "promised".
Better that then fraudulently gathering votes during an election - only scumbags would mis-represent their positions during an election!
Too funny.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)In fact, it's encouraged. And how would you get a republican congress to vote for impeachment?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And I needed a laugh. Thank you.
gordianot
(15,242 posts)Pence is trading one horror for another. It is time to choose your favorite circle in Hell for the next four years.
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)Just hope the Constitution will still apply
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)You're right, it does have to be during the presidency. My bad.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Under oath is a different story.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)to impeach and a Democrat-controlled Senate to convict. Easy peasy.
Cosmocat
(14,568 posts)fuck ...
Cosmocat
(14,568 posts)Rs have a mortal lock on the house and will NEVER impeach an R president.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)The more that Trump changes his tunes, the more they (the repubs) may see it in their best interests to remove him so that the much more conservative asshole, Pence, takes over as president. I'll bet that behind closed doors some of those tea party morons are already flaking out over Trump's flip flops.
Cosmocat
(14,568 posts)1) Out principle they Rs will NEVER impeach an R. They got buyers remorse immediately after having a hand in having Nixon step down and generally have their insane, never admit fault things on steroids.
2) There are LOT of the Rs in congress who are strong Trump people.
3) They know that they would suffer GREAT backlash from their pods who show up at the voting booths if the impeach him, that is why they never really carried through on their impulses to run him off during the primary.
4) Finally, he is a useful idiot to them. He can take all the bullets as POTUS, they will simply not pass anything he proposes that they don't like and bully him to pass whatever insane $hit they want to get passed. The dynamic changes now that he is in the box of the executive office and having to "work with" congress to do most things.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Lying is not illegal unless under oath in some form or another.
Lying to get votes is not illegal either.
Fraud in a legal sense is quite narrowly defined and must meet certain conditions, which Mr. Trump does not fit into, even though he clearly lied to win the election. Duping someone into voting for you is not against the law.