2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIs Snowden Putin's Puppet?
By Garry KasparovGarry Kasparov is the chairman of the New York-based Human Rights Foundation.
Snowdens Revelations Shouldnt Distract from Putins Brutal Rule
Whistleblower, traitor, hero, villain, Snowden may be many things at once but his apologies for the brutal record of Putin and the Russian state are inexcusable.
It is human nature to want to put a face on our stories, whether or not it really fits. Like a footballer making or missing a penalty in the final seconds of a game, one individual often gets credit or blame when he is mostly just a diversion from more important stories. Heroes and villains make for good narratives and this is especially true when someone can play both roles at the same time. That is the case of Edward Snowden, a traitor and spy to some and a whistleblower and hero to others. I have no special knowledge about his actions or his leaks, but I would surely feel differently about him had he not taken refuge in Russia, where his asylum request tacitly endorsed the dictatorial regime of his gracious host, Vladimir Putin.
My reaction is not only due to Snowdens first statement from Russia, while he was still in legal limbo at the Sheremetyevo airport, in which he included Putins Russiaa police state and patron of despotism worldwideon his list of nations that stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. Putins many political prisoners would disagree quite strongly, and Snowden could have been more respectful of the many injured and dead among journalists and his fellow whistleblowers in Russia.
One note on Snowdens NSA revelations, however, speaking as someone who grew up under the all-seeing eye of the KGB and who is fighting its modern rebirth under Putin. It is exasperating to hear blithe comparisons between the NSA, and other western spy organizations, and the vicious internal security regimes of the USSR and East Germany. The NSA is to the Stasi what a bad hotel is to a prison. It is not what a government does with data that defines it, it is what it does to human beings.
Any encroachment on the personal freedoms and rights of individuals by a government should be protested and debated, absolutely. The mechanisms to protest such abuses must be exercised regularly or they will be lost. But citizens behind the Iron Curtain were not terrified of the intelligence services because of data collection. We lived in fear because we knew what would happen to us if we gave any hint of dissent against the regime. As often as not, no data at all was required to persecute, disappear, torture, and murder potential enemies. If a court actually was involved, and evidence desired, it could simply be fabricated. And no, to take on the next argument I often hear, brutal totalitarianism does not begin with surveillance by a liberal democratic state. It begins with terror, it begins with violence, it begins with the knowledge that your thoughts and words can end your career or your life.
more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/29/snowden-s-revelations-shouldn-t-distract-from-putin-s-brutal-rule.html
Note: The headline "Is Snowden Putin's Puppet?" originates on the front page of TDB: http://www.thedailybeast.com/
The remaining headlines, in Boldface on this page, appear over the article as it appears in the first link at "more:" above.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)If not, why not?
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Putin's strings.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)that would be needed to do anything to Putin. On the contrary, he is a "guest" and if he did something to piss off Putin there are a few ways Putin could deal with it. The easiest would be just to kick him out of the country. I'm not saying it would happen, but responding to the hypothetical about who's yanking who's strings.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it is to laugh!!!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)just
Scuba
(53,475 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Would you?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)be any danger at all?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)That's pretty stupid.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)guess you think he is pretty stupid!
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Precisely because Russia is not so great about human rights.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)yeah sure...whatever gets you through the nite!
Cha
(297,723 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)"Patsy" or perhaps "subordinate" might be more applicable.
For the same reason Wikileaks won't release the Russian files. Too many allies with Russia. Can't rock the boat.
It's unfortunate, but humans do what they can to prosper and survive. Assange gets asylum in Ecuador which is no paragon for journalism at all (and whose environmental degradation has gone forward despite false claims to the contrary).
It may be unfortunate that when you go up against the US your only allies tend to be despots.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)LOL....after reading the rest... I nearly fell out of my chair!
Way to get to the point!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)seeing as I am a Stasi-bot, I can verify this.
My reaction is not only due to Snowdens first statement from Russia, while he was still in legal limbo at the Sheremetyevo airport, in which he included Putins Russiaa police state and patron of despotism worldwideon his list of nations that stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless.
Some here have denied he has ever said this.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)better ?
Cha
(297,723 posts)why else would he be praising Russia's Human rights? That or he's living in a make believe world where up is down and down is up.
Finally, somebody is talking about this from the Human Rights Campaign..
"I have no special knowledge about his actions or his leaks, but I would surely feel differently about him had he not taken refuge in Russia, where his asylum request tacitly endorsed the dictatorial regime of his gracious host, Vladimir Putin."
My reaction is not only due to Snowdens first statement from Russia, while he was still in legal limbo at the Sheremetyevo airport, in which he included Putins Russiaa police state and patron of despotism worldwideon his list of nations that stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. Putins many political prisoners would disagree quite strongly, and Snowden could have been more respectful of the many injured and dead among journalists and his fellow whistleblowers in Russia."
It was unbloodyreal.. ES was being repspectful to Putin.. jumping head first into the whole propaganda thing. I'd feel differently about ES if he hadn't praised Russia's human rights from the get-go like a damn puppet and if he weren't slinging propaganda missives from Russia like a wound up robot. Bill Maher hit it square on target when he said everything that comes out of his mouth is "fuckin' nuts". Why is that? Whose agenda is this?
This>>>>
".. The NSA is to the Stasi what a bad hotel is to a prison. It is not what a government does with data that defines it, it is what it does to human beings."
Totally ignored by the "Russia good-USA bad"crowd.
snip// from your link, DV..
" The idea that an individual could carry out this mission and then flee to China and take refuge in Russia without any involvement by the KGB is hard to believe. Combine these logical suspicions with his asylum claim and the aforementioned false equivalency between dictatorships and democracies and Snowden is hardly cut out to be a sympathetic figure among those who respect the universal nature of human rights."
Yeah, it's hard for me too.. and I don't believe it.
"Sochi will be defined by how well the Olympics shine a spotlight on the corruption and repression of Putin and all who willingly overlook his crimes."
Thank you for this piece from Garry Kasparov the chairman of the New York-based Human Rights Foundation, Don Viejo~
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Cha
(297,723 posts)great white snark
(2,646 posts)Thanks for bringing the facts Cha.
Cha
(297,723 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)what a joke!
sheshe2
(83,929 posts)As for the estimation of Snowden among the Russian opposition, you must realize what his journey looks like in our eyes. The idea that an individual could carry out this mission and then flee to China and take refuge in Russia without any involvement by the KGB is hard to believe. Combine these logical suspicions with his asylum claim and the aforementioned false equivalency between dictatorships and democracies and Snowden is hardly cut out to be a sympathetic figure among those who respect the universal nature of human rights.
Putin will exploit Snowden as he does everyone and everything, but he has much bigger fish to fry.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/29/snowden-s-revelations-shouldn-t-distract-from-putin-s-brutal-rule.html
Thanks DonViejo~
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)sheshe2
(83,929 posts)You really did!
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)Snowden chose to lie down with dogs; he'll get up with fleas. If he gets up at all.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)...This may be an economic move to destabilize the Anglosphere. It's not about our rights as USA citizens. It's been going on for many, many years...
The chances that the Anglosphere is going to shuffle off into history ares slim; but it's likely that certain entities and outside alliances arrayed against it would love to spark trouble and remake the world order.
There has been a push from Russia, China and other Asian allies to push the USA out of the trading there. It's about money, not hurt feelings on anyone's part.
This is a continuing thing that is older than we are and will outlive us, but some would profit by it and work on it every day.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024396718#post270
I'd say he's being used as a tool for a bigger plan. But most Americans don't think decades in advance or have ambitions beyond their own situation. That is how these things are managed in more mature societies than ours.
Just for reference, here is the Wikipedia entry on this technique, and we see it is prevalent with ODS:
The word destabilisation can be applied to a wide variety of contexts such as attempts to undermine political, military or economic power. In a psychological context it is used as a technique in brainwashing and abuse to disorient and disarm the victim. For example, in the context of workplace bullying, destabilisation applied to the victim may involve:[1] [2]
* failure to acknowledge good work and value the victim's efforts
* allocation of meaningless tasks
* removal of areas of responsibility without consultation
* repeated reminders of blunders
* setting up to fail
* shifting of goal posts without telling the victim
* persistent attempts to demoralise the victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destabilisation
This is what the media is doing with G.A.S., et al. Those promoting it are not our friends and do not have our best interests at heart.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)plan for breaking up civil rights groups and anti-war protesters. Divide and conquer, create dissent within the group. Cause fractions wherever possible.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)This could get so much better discussion if the Daily Beast didn't try to flame it out.
snot
(10,538 posts)that O needs to compete with Putin on the nice-o-meter, thank you, Ed.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Under_Putin_.28incl._2nd_Chechen_conflict.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Under_Putin
Putin's horrific murder of Alexander Litvinenko using Polonium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko
Cha
(297,723 posts)jerk off in the reality based community.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)You're even on a first name basis. That's cute!
dionysus
(26,467 posts)maybe toss in a "cult" or "messiah" next time for maximum bitterness
Cha
(297,723 posts)continues to affect cognitive thinking.