2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLibertarianism is a corrupt philosophy..no matter how someone tries to dress that pig up
Libertarianism is literally what is best for me. The supposed freedoms embraced by the Ayn Rand, Rand Paul (wonder if Ron did that naming on purpose..) grouping.. can seem to have these little lights that people go..oh oh.. I agree with that.. without taking in the whole scheme of the philosophy.. which is "I have mine .. go screw you."
Those who embrace it, will promote what ever little they have in common with any group across the spectrum to try and grab power.
One of the former Presidents that libertarians despise most is ta dah.. Eisenhower..because of his Highway programs .. Goverment should not be involved in anything that is not done by the individual.
If you scratch a libertarian you will find a monarchist or someone who really embraces dictators. They love power for the individual..but damn the group.
They hate goverment for a reason. It puts limits on their excesses. They can't have private toll ways to illicit funds from individuals. (just an example)
So no matter how anyone tries to dress up that pig (libertarianism) ..just know it is 180 degree opposite of Democracy.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,243 posts)Peacetrain
(22,879 posts)moments when you get into a philological debate in RL with a Paul supporter..been there and done that
alterfurz
(2,475 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)And infiltrating the GOP for the youth vote.
Apparently, pointing out that some of Rand Paul's policies are attractive to young voters is supporting him, or something.
DesertFaux
(15 posts)I look at Goverment as a tool of investment for people. We invest in each other through a goverment paid for by taxes. With it we invest in our health, safety, enviroment, education etc. etc. Taxes and goverment = civilization. Without it we have to deal with chaos, and the slavery of poverty and the misery of poor health, doesn't sound like freedom to me. Those who want less goverment and taxes just don't want to invest in people or their future, they are not really interested in freedom. I view them as dangerously selfish and parasitic; they want to live off of the previous generations investing, that built this country and made it a place to thrive. They have turned their back on a process that works. We just have to keep investing in each other and drag their asses with us kicking and screaming.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)mndemsocialist
(48 posts)I thought years ago that Libertarianism was a front for Republican conservatism.
When Howard Stern ran for public office, he was pro-death penalty. Why would a libertarian, who would claim to be against the power of the State, be in favor of giving government the greatest power of all, the power of Life and Death?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)anti partisan
(429 posts)A certain sequence keeps happening over and over.
1. Rand Paul says something reasonable. Obviously this is always on the foreign policy or civil liberties fronts because he is extremely unreasonable everywhere else.
2. Hillary fans realize that Rand Paul is *gasp* more progressive than their favorite corporate puppet on some issue. Panic ensues.
3a. Some alarmists think that for whatever reason, progressives will start supporting Rand Paul, and that they must be set straight.
or maybe a more cynical take
3b. Hillary supporters care more about their favorite corporate puppet winning and want to stifle all criticism of her especially when a Republican is clearly talking much more sense on some issues from even a mainstream progressive point of view.
4. Constant preaching to the choir about tenets of libertarianism (or Rand Paul's beliefs) that nobody here even subscribes to
MoleyRusselsWart
(101 posts)It certainly gives the impression that Rand Paul has spooked some people big time.
Thats not a criticism. I think it stems from the fact that there is someone out there who, if only on a few issues, is actually espousing policies that we strongly believe in but which Democrats won't fight for. It scares us that a wolf in sheep's clothing else is going to tap into that populist anger that we know is out there on issues that should be ours.
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)Do yourself a favor and read the whole essay. Ed at Gin and Tacos writes great stuff.
http://www.ginandtacos.com/2008/08/31/atheistsfoxholes-libertariansairplanes/
"In short, to the extent that I care more about what happens to people real people, here in the real world than I care about patting myself on the back for being 100% true to pure free market principles, Im liberal. Regarding the terms use as an insult when you are ready to volunteer for a flight on Market Self-Correction Airways or have your kid to eat the Mad Cow meat and die on a ventilator with blood hemorrhaging out of his eyes, then well talk. Until then, politely lean forward and blow it directly out your ass. There is no insult I can take seriously from people who are so fanatically devoted to free-market idolatry that they would rather see lives lost and ruined than controvert its sacred principles. People who care more about free market ideology than human life prove themselves remarkably undeserving of either."
The deregulation fanaticism has brought our nation nearly to its knees, without most citizens making the connection at all. Toledo, Ohio lost drinking water for 3 days due to a toxic chemical in their water supply source, Lake Erie. The chemical, mycrocystin, is made by blue green algae that are now rampant in many inland lakes here in Ohio, especially Lake Erie and Grand Lake St. Mary's. Lake Erie is where Toledo gets its drinking water. The algae blooms are fueled by sewage, manure and fertilizer pouring into Lake Erie. In 2002, the republican lead legislature and governor (Taft, in 2002) took the regulation of factory farm manure from the OhioEPA and gave the regulatory responsibilities to the Ohio Department of Agriculture, putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. Our GOP legislature refuses to properly regulate and inspect home sewage systems, as more and more homes, in Ohio, are built in unsewered locations, allowing massive quantities of raw sewage to flow into our streams, rivers and lakes due to the failure and lack of inspections of home sewage systems. The regulation of home sewage is done by county health departments, whose budgets have been slashed by the republicans in their anti regulation fervor. The regulation of fertilizer from farm fields, family homes and golf courses is not even on the radar here in Ohio. The lack of funding for improving infrastructure like waste water and drinking water plants is a scandal in and of itself.
Because this is complicated, people cannot reason this out for themselves. They need information so they can understand the relationship between the lack of regulation and not being able to have safe drinking water. This is only one issue that people are completely in the dark about. By keeping people ignorant, the forces that enrich themselves at the expense of public health and loss of democracy thrive. Simple slogans by simple minded politicians seem appropriate to folks who do not have the tools to comprehend what is needed and why government regulation is the only way to have things like clean drinking water and properly functioning public schools. Thus, libertarians are not laughed out of the room when they propose their silly and astonishingly selfish ideas.