The right claims that the pie can get bigger as more wealth is created. Sure

[applegrove]

growth creates more wealth. But Western economies are now mature and there is only so much growth possible within the USA. That is why they want to privatize everything government does ...cause if they want to invest domestically, they need to creat new marketplaces for money to be made and what government used to do is the new American frontier. And such privatization will result in the breaking of contracts to unions/pensions/etc (with the government picking up the tab for the lost jobs, less tax revenue, etc). Workers will be made up of clerks working for highly automated large corporations or small business where the owner works 70 hours a week. There will not be good jobs created. So the way to not have even more inequality is to tax the rich adequately and close loopholes. And not to privatize everything.

[pnwmom]

1. Did you see the article in the NYTimes about this today?

"Let's be less productive."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/opinion/sunday/lets-be-less-productive.html?ref=opinion

[applegrove]

2. Did not. Thank you for posting it.

[LiberalFighter]

3. The problem with creating growth that creates more wealth is

that the wealth will be distributed only to the wealthy. And the wealthy will continue to squeeze as much out of the workers as they can so they can be wealthier.

On the NY Times article... one of the things that will need to happen is to have universal health care and a better pension (Social Security). There is a line that businesses look at before they decide they need to have full time workers and if they only have part time workers they likely won't have health insurance or any other major benefits. And businesses with full time workers, especially in the factory tend to maximize the amount of hours they work because once they add more workers they usually have expenses beyond the wages. But if they can get the production they need by utilizing overtime they don't have to pay out more for pension, health insurance, workers comp, etc.

The other thing too is that those workers working 21 hours a week so that others can have a job won't work if they aren't receiving a living wage. They will just go out and get a 2nd job which doesn't open up job spots.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. When the pie does get bigger

The very rich get an even bigger slice. They've been keeping ahead of the growth rate for a long time, so everyone else keeps getting less no matter what size the pie is.

[baldguy]

5. .

[quaker bill]

6. Privatizing is not a new frontier

it is just moving existing jobs around, and usually some are lost permanently in the process. There is no growth via providing the same services through a different structures.

We need to stop talking in terms of "creating wealth" because people confuse the real concept with the simple notion of creating more millionaires. "Creating prosperity" is a better concept because people will perhaps confuse it less with the notion of making millionaires as a goal.

"Creating wealth" can be defined as the increase in the accumulated value of all things increasing. It is not necessarily about who owns the things, so creating more millionaires is just one way to define or measure it. If everyone was some portion economically better off, and you add it all up, wealth would have been created just the same. However the focus has been on making the 1% vastly richer as the only measure of "Wealth Creation". It is not true, but it is a convenient distortion the right has used to considerable effect.

Creating prosperity has a more equitable connotation. Prosperity is something we share in.

[and-justice-for-all]

7. We have been doig that same shit since Raygun...

IT DOES NOT WORK FOR THE MAJORITY!!