2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAbout Bernie's Birmingham Event ...
Last edited Mon Jul 13, 2015, 06:44 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128024147First, a correction ... while Alabama, as a whole, might be "deeply Conservative", Birmingham is NOT ...
It's Mayor, and 7 of its 9 Council members are Black and Democrats, in a City that is 74% Black. And, it is in one of the few Alabama counties that went for President Obama.
But, sadly, looking at the crowd shots ... not much different from his other crowds; though, the demographics of the cities are significantly different ...{sign}
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arcane1
(38,613 posts)Alabama needs to step up!
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)74% African American.I'd call that a pretty significant problem for Sanders if it doesn't change.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)are any indication, don't expect it to change any time soon.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)seen such tone deafness.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)I never thought I'd log on here and find these issues described as "incessant concerns."
If this attitude mirrors that of the Sanders campaign, then they may as well pack it up and go home.
Unbelievable.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Do you believe that black people do not care about the issues Sanders brings up?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)perhaps, because when someone frames your problem(s) differently then you, repeatedly, people tend to tune out.
Or, it is possible that in a City of 140,000+ Black people, the vast majority of which have a TV-machine, might not have heard of, or been the least bit curious enough, to hear what a 30 year legislator had to say.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)How do black people frame these issues, and how does Sanders fails to meet them on these?
- housing
- healthcare
- the environment
- foreign affairs
- education
- trade
- income equality
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)or, is this another attempt to tell me what I should want to hear?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)There's been a hit-and-run here.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)There's been a premature exaggeration here.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but prioritize them after, social parity/justice.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)How are the problems framed differently?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)it's the AFTER part that makes the frame different. You get that don't you? 
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Tell you what, since you won't support your own claims against Sanders, let's try something else.
How is Clinton framing her approaches on these issues that are so much more appealing to the black community?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)She does put economic justice first.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You said this:
My question is, how is Sanders framing his approach to my list of issues (see post # 10) in a way that is different from how black voters frame them. Or if you can't think of an answer to that, how is Clinton framing them in a more appealing way to the community?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but listening doesn't seem to be a strong point here.
Let me repeat my response:
ETA: I.e., all of these issues are of importance; but, less of a priority.
Understand now?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I dunno how well that works in GD
, but I hang out in I/P and that sort of circular bullshit doesn't flummox me.
How does one speak of "social issues" without addressing the others I mentioned? In what reality are these subjects so divorced that this is even possible? In my reality, they're interconnected and there's really no way to "proiritize" one over the other.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That "economic' and "social" issues are easily disconnected and easy to address separately.
How does that work?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I will not do it again.
Pigs and wrestling come to mind here.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But we clearly speak different languages. So ... Done.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)On Mon Jul 13, 2015, 09:49 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I've explained it more times than I care to ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=443371
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
To tell a fellow DUer that engaging him or her in a discussion is like wrestling a pig is a personal attack. We need to do better than this.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jul 13, 2015, 10:02 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OFFS STOP WITH THE STUPID FUCKING ALERTS
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see nothing wrong at all with this comment because this poster has, indeed, attempted to explain the same things patiently over and over ad infinitum, to no avail. He is not being insulting. Those who alert bomb and alert stalk are being insulting.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not gonna hide a 1StrongBlackMan post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: NO it is NOT a personal attack.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An attempt to silence 1SBM and give him his 5th hide. Hrmjustin
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You have not bowed down to peer pressure and that pisses some off here.
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)Thanks justin. Love your #7 comment!!!!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I hope they enjoy their 0-7 decision 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Cha
(297,446 posts)You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jul 13, 2015, 10:02 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OFFS STOP WITH THE STUPID FUCKING ALERTS
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see nothing wrong at all with this comment because this poster has, indeed, attempted to explain the same things patiently over and over ad infinitum, to no avail. He is not being insulting. Those who alert bomb and alert stalk are being insulting.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not gonna hide a 1StrongBlackMan post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: NO it is NOT a personal attack.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An attempt to silence 1SBM and give him his 5th hide. Hrmjustin
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)So I can assume that the misunderstanding is, unsurprisingly, willful and not for want of explanation.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Because he has no answer, because the whole premise is little more than a fantasy.
He started a similar OP a week or so ago in which he implied that Sanders was racist and avoiding POC. When someone has an agenda, it is impossible to have anything more than a circular conversation with them, because breaking the circle breaks their agenda. So they don't do it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251428686#post17
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(Note ... I am not calling AgingAmerican a racist ... I just cannot understand why he/she keeps saying I have implied that Bernie is a racist, when I have made no such implication. One's interpretation of what is "implied" starts with what is in one's own head.)
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)They don't have to be accurate, just loud and repetitive.
That's how mob rule rolls...
AverageGuy
(80 posts)Bernie talks about economic equality and justice, which helps everyone.
But the black community has additional concerns which only effect PoC, like social equality in each economic class. These things (like profileing by police and others) do not effect everyone. Bernie does not talk very much about that. so PoC do not turn out to hear him speak, since these are the things that are most important to them. Economic equality and Justice is important to PoC and they will benefit from it, but on a daily basis, being treated as an equal to everyone else is more important.
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)and in AfAm.
Perhaps you should do some reading there. TIA.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Do spare me anything written by yourself though. I do not and will not regard you as a credible source or commenter. sorry 
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)Hey, nice insult from you, which you tried to temper with a smile. Cute.
I post in AfAm, yet as a white person I would not presume to speak for them. I talk with them. I listen to them.
I suggest you do some research on your own. I gave you a place to go and here is AfAm.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1187
You have a need for answers, do some reading. It is a great group. You will learn a lot.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I was hoping for a link or two to the specific topic we were talking about.
And it was not my intent to insult you. Just to note rthat I don't regard you the least bit credible after this post from you.
A post which I now understand to be perfectly representative of Hillary Clinton and all of her supporters.
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)For the third and last time YOU do your own homework. I don't work for you.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And hey. I'm just asking you to do your own work, sheshe2. You claim something, well, let's see you back that claim up. it shouldn't be difficult.
Oh well.
Will there be anything else, or are you done here? Don't forget your 
smiley. it's the hallmark of a totes legit argument.
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)Second
You have been dismissing 1StrongBlackMan all over this thread. He has tried to explain and you dismiss him. You have railroaded this thread.
Your mind is shut, nothing anyone says will change that. Claim? I stated a fact. The life of AA can not be explained in a link. This is what you don't seem to understand. You have to read that group and see how they feel and why they feel that way. It is not a link, it is not one post it is their life.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I posed this question to 1StrongBlackMan:
You answered for him - since you, of course, feel you have such entitlement to speak for him...
To which I asked...
I'm asking for links to the discussions you're talking about. I don't know if you knew, but it's possible to link to threads within groups ,as well as individual posts in those threads. So if you had a specific example ofthose discussions i could read, it's a simple matter to just give a link to them.
I don't know hwere this came from:
But it seems pretty disconnected from the rest of the discussion we're having. Or whatever you call this, i guess.
Cha
(297,446 posts)Thank you!
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)I knew someone would understand that the lives of AfAm could never be summed up in one sentence. You know this because you read and post in their group.
How anyone believes a life that started in slavery can be dismissed so easily to a link is beyond me.
Thank you Cha. 1Strong tried to explain. He was dismissed.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Nobody believes this, and no one, beyond yourself, has made this claim.
Thank you.
Cha
(297,446 posts)disgraceful.
AverageGuy
(80 posts)Bernie talks about economic equality and justice, which helps everyone.
But the black community has additional concerns which only effect PoC, like social equality in each economic class. These things (like profileing by police and others) do not effect everyone. Bernie does not talk very much about that. so PoC do not turn out to hear him speak, since these are the things that are most important to them. Economic equality and Justice is important to PoC and they will benefit from it, but on a daily basis, being treated as an equal to everyone else is more important.
840high
(17,196 posts)
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... that's the problem right there. It's not that BS isn't addressing the right issues; it's that black people don't care about the right issues.
This is clearly a voter problem - it's not even remotely possible that it could be a Bernie problem.
<<< For those who find it necessary.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Black voters not being tuned in yet, loyalty to Clintons, name ID, etc. I don't see how it could be a Bernie problem as his message is starting to resonate across the board and he has been more than willing to speak to the press and the people today about the issues. He even got a standing ovation today at La Raza, and the last poll had him with 41% of the Hispanic vote. We will have to see when the next round of polling comes out this week whether there is movement with other minorities.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He is attempting to project this fantasy onto Bernie. It's sad to watch it unfold week in week out.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I have SAID he is campaigning in places where his message is already readily accepted ... which happens to be largely white, upper middle-class, tracts.
It is a smart strategy ... But that IS different from "avoiding PoC."
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's not even a 'theory'. It's a 'fantasy'. It's 'wishful thinking'.
And, yes, you say he 'avoids' them. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251428686#post17
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 14, 2015, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)
You DO understand that avoiding a segment of the electorate (all be they, Black) that has yet to connect to your message is not racist ... right?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Hillary only mention African Americans and Latinos once? Or that it is very similar to the same information quoted by Sanders?
http://www.bustle.com/articles/96791-transcript-of-hillary-clintons-speech-on-the-economic-policy-that-would-define-her-presidency-is-simply
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Probably because this was a speech specifically focused on her economic frame-work ... her regular stump speech is much more balance. But you know that, right?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)that will combat racism? Specifically.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Voting rights. But if you have specific proposals, not sentences, policy proposals that you think are more satisfying I would like to hear them.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'd love for those posters to tell me how the president of the united states is going to address petty racism in Swiss apparel stores.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)In fact you've made no argument at all. Good way to evade that problem. Kudos to you, 1StrongBlackMan.
In fact, you've been the one being dismissive all through this thread. So if that's a problem, check for the 2x4 crammed in your own eyeball, friend.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)Listen to both Clinton's and Sanders' stump speech - Bernie speaks like a plain person discussing issues that actually affects America. Clinton is a poor orator, and often uses prompters to help her get through her speech. Bernie doesn't even use one - just his notes.
Take a look, think about it. Forget popularity. Think about the issues beforehand, and listen. Close your eyes, and just listen. Both of them. Then think about what they just said.
I know you haven't decided, and I'm just giving you my sound advice - listen to the issues, and listen to their plans - is it solid or is it fluff?
Truly.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)lesson learned. now many of us are looking between the flowery prose.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... when posts about Bernie elicit a "but what about Hillary?" response, it becomes increasingly apparent that BS is only to be compared with HRC because he can't stand on his own merits.
Otherwise, the "but what about Hillary" reply would not be necessary.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Since every speech and event by one candidate are examined, I am asking what is working better. There is an assumption here that one candidate is better on issues of race because of her polling numbers. I am asking why 1StrongBlackMan thinks so.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... but it probably has something to do with one candidate's stellar polling numbers as opposed to another candidate's piss-poor polling numbers.
It seems to me (albeit not being an expert in the field) that polling poorly among AAs and minorities is indicative of the candidate's problem, not the voters'.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)uponit7771
(90,348 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)has poor outreach and to give an example of a candidate that is currently running who meets his standards. That is a perfectly fair question.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)The fact that AAs and minorities clearly support Hillary over Bernie?
Or the fact that if Bernie is polling poorly with AAs and minorities, it's his problem, not theirs?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)So far in this thread, no answer has come.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Only one candidate gets your attention, so the implication is that he is failing compared to others. If you think O'Malley or Webb deserve the title, by all means, clue us in.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)One would think, however, that a Clinton supporter attacking Sanders on something, would be more than happy to demonstrate Clinton's superiority on that particular issue.
Doesn't look that way, though
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)Many OPs about Bernie begin with statements like: HRC didn't draw this big a crowd in this city. HRC didn't "go there" on this topic. HRC didn't say this first ..."
Bernie posts are full of comparisons to Hillary right off the bat. And, as I said, if Bernie can stand on his own two feet, why is the comparison to Hillary - or anyone else, for that matter - necessary?
Several posts in this thread are a perfect example. Why the NEED to bring up Hillary's speech on economics in a thread about Bernie's Birmingham event? Why not just speak to Bernie's OWN performance in Birmingham, instead of commenting on HRC's speech elsewhere?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But to answer your question any way - I suppose someone has to talk about the stuff Clinton's saying. her "supporters' don't to it much. But then you guys are busy shitbagging Sanders and complaining about hidden posts, so who can blame you? You don't have time to extol Clinton's virtues.
don't worry, the "bernistas' have you guys covered
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... that DU is a level playing field.
According to Skinner, 85% of current DUers are Bernie supporters. That means an 85% chance of anything an HRCer posts being hidden by an "impartial jury" - especially if it even questions Bernie, no less says something negative about him.
And while we're at it, let's also not pretend that DU is in any way reflective of the Democratic Party and its voters, who are still, by a wide margin, HRC supporters.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If someone calls Bernie Sanders a "republican man with his head between women's legs" and gets the post hidden, it is not an example of unfair victimization of Clinton supporters by a great Bernie conspiracy. It's an example of a post calling a Democratic candidate a republican and making a grotesque insinuation against them that got hidden for violating the TOS. Especially when, for every hidden post, there's several dozen more like the one from Sheshe2 I linked above that get to stay.
Edited to add: see that bullshit alert above? 0-7 to stay. Sell me this line about how horribly unfair and imbalanced Furies are and how it's so horribly stacked against Clinton supporters again? yeah, 1SBM has some alert stalkers. But so do I, juries seem to work it out just fine though.
As for "DU isn't reflective of reality" I'm certain I could go back to 2008 and find the same argument made against supporters of candidate Obama. It's a pretty sad defensive tack. I'm also certain that I could find the same argument made on DU about GLBT equality, too - remember the days of gay people being accused of "wanting ponies"? Same argument, really, and just as false.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)The hide you cited is a good hide - I don't think you'll get much argument there.
But again, let's NOT pretend that completely innocuous posts by HRC supporters have not been alerted on - and hidden, because the jury is drawn from a pool comprised of 85% Bernie supporters.
Really, dude. Don't sit there and tell me that the 85% number isn't a factor in alerts and hides.
As for going back to 2008, DU was much more reflective of the Party in those days. But then the Obama supporters started leaving in droves, the TOS was changed, and the trolls became imbedded.
The fact that 85% of DUers are Bernie supporters, while he has nowhere near that percentage of support in the real world, tells you all you need to know about how reflective DU is of RL.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)There was evidently one against 1SBM in this very thread, see above. and I know from personal experience - he's not the only one with a gaggle of alert stalkers, after all I'd had a hidden post for taking to task a guy who was defending Hitler, nance. if you're trying to tell me that nonsense alerts sometimes get four people to go ahead with them, then I'm sold.
But you're trying to frame it as some grand Sandernista conspiracy targeting poor, innocent, blameless victims who only want to support Clinton.
That just ain't so.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... that according to Skinner (who, I am going to assume, is in a position to know), 85% of DUers are Bernie supporters.
How does stating a FACT like that become "some grand Sandernista conspiracy targeting poor, innocent, blameless victims who only want to support Clinton"?
Again, are you honestly going to insist that an 85% Bernie-supporting populace on this site is NOT a factor in hides and alerts? REALLY? The actual NUMBER is part of a "conspiracy"?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That is, towards Sanders' support being a factor in hides. Evidence for your theory, please.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)Seriously.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You are assuming nefarious motives of people you don't know and assuming they are banding together to work against you, without a shred of evidence to back your claim.
That's conspiracy theory, nance.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... "jury decisions". They are being posted with much more regularity of late.
To say I am "assuming nefarious motives" has nothing to do with what I've stated thus far - which has nothing to do with "nefarious motives" or "banding together".
It is common sense to acknowledge that if 85% of juries are comprised of Republicans (for example), Democrats are not going to fare as well as their GOP counterparts in the decision-making process.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You are assuming that Sanders supporters are "out to get" you. That's the core premise you're presenting.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... based on what I've said, I have neither the interest nor the inclination to try to persuade you otherwise.
Believe what you will - it is of no consequence to me, or the world at large.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)According to Skinner, 85% of current DUers are Bernie supporters. That means an 85% chance of anything an HRCer posts being hidden by an "impartial jury" - especially if it even questions Bernie, no less says something negative about him.
Really, dude. Don't sit there and tell me that the 85% number isn't a factor in alerts and hides.
Your argument is that Clinton supporters are unfairly targeted (By Sanders supporters) and face Juries that are of course going to vote to hide, because again, Bernie supporters. You refuse to provide evidence for this claim, insisting instead that it is "common sense" that this is how it goes down.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)I have neither the interest nor the inclination to try to persuade you otherwise.
Think whatever you want. I am not interested in trying to have a discussion with someone who keeps telling me what I said, or that I have presented an argument I never raised.
Please feel free to continue this conversation with yourself. As long as you are determined to tell me what I said instead of reading what I've actually said, there is no reason for me to participate.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)do you want to go back and edit the posts i'm quoting, so that you can persist that you didn't actually say what you actually said?
It's plain as day, you believe that sanders supporters are persecuting you and other Clinton supporters, and you have no chance with juries because of how popular Sanders is on the board.
You even asserted this was common sense.
My advice to you is that if you are worried about getting posts hidden, try to refrain from making posts that violate the ToS or group rules.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... of what I'm talking about:
"It's plain as day, you believe that sanders supporters are persecuting you and other Clinton supporters, and you have no chance with juries because of how popular Sanders is on the board."
Now, you know and I know - and so does everyone reading this exchange - that I never said any such thing.
But as I've already invited you to do - quite cordially, I might add - please continue this discussion with yourself, given that you are more than anxious to provide both sides of the conversation.
My participation is obviously neither welcome nor necessary.
frylock
(34,825 posts)you know, if this particular theory of yours held any merit.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)A lot of hides are against long-term DUers, who Skinner isn't about to tombstone without good cause. And some of the "hides" going around lately are too ridiculous to even be considered hide-worthy, no less PPR-worthy.
The fact that 85% of DUers are Bernie supporters is hardly a "theory". That's Skinner's number - and, as I've said, I assume he's in a position to know what the number is.
frylock
(34,825 posts)I haven't had a post hidden since the new rules came into affect. Now I have two hidden posts in the last two weeks. Yes, tell me all about the roving bands of renegade Sanders supporters alerting on all those Clinton supporter's threads.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=423496
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=441734
Autumn
(45,120 posts)for telling a non supporters he had been trolling the group all afternoon, which he had been doing. In two different threads.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)and from the alerters comments I think it was the same person. 
John Poet
(2,510 posts)if they are obviously trolling.
I got one hid for that a while back, against a long-time DUer.
However, a significant minority on the jury agreed with me, so I think it was worth it.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... about "roving bands of renegade Sanders supporters alerting on all those Clinton supporter's threads"?
Oh, that's right - I didn't say that. In fact, I didn't say anything even remotely close to that.
But that's DU nowadays - let's not bother with actually reading what someone has said. It's much better to fabricate what someone said, and then argue with what it was they didn't say.
What an incredible waste of time ...
frylock
(34,825 posts)currently running for office. Certainly you've seen the accusations, no? But in any case, the subject was ridiculous hides, which I addressed.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"I interpret what you DID write as you IMPLYING it ... so there!"
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Remember it wasn't until after Obama won South Carolina, that they actually started going to his campaign over hers.
With time, they should move over to Sanders camp-- his policies are certainly better for minorities.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)JI7
(89,259 posts)Otherwise she would have kept many of her black voters and win.
But even before this he had been campaigning hard for black voters. In a way Sanders has not.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)At this point in 2007 Obama, a black candidate, was only polling at 34% among blacks against Clinton, Bernie is at 11%. Obama was not campaigning hard for the black vote in the beginning as he pretty much lived in Iowa. African Americans flocked over to him right before the SC primary because of Bill Clinton's racially insensitive comments. Remember the "biggest fairy tale he's ever seen"
For Bernie, I'm not sure how talking about income inequality, racial equality, and jobs isn't a message that will eventually resonate with the black community. It will take time.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)... see how he's going to address black and brown liberal views
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Much better than the "liberals" that the bankers have propped up for us. He's doing a fine job addressing black and brown views.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)Something I can live with as the issue is not exceptionally important to me, especially with all the other stuff our country has going on. Being slightly more to the right on guns while being to the left on everything else is OK with me, and would actually play well with a general electorate.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)... South Side KC and say ".. I'm going to side with the gun manufacturers on this one..." and everything would be fine.
It wouldn't
ram2008
(1,238 posts)I don't think its so much as siding with gun manufacturers as it is placing the blame where it should be and preventing frivolous lawsuits. I agree that gun manufacturers shouldn't be held responsible for acts of violence committed by people using the guns, so long as they were sold within the bounds of the law.
His support for instant background checks, ban on assault weapons and closing gun show loopholes is probably in line with about 80% of the electorate. It seems perfectly reasonable to me.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)simply are not paying much attention to this campaign yet.... so it's pretty silly to be making any sweeping generalizations about who is backing whom, or who WILL be backing whom, at this early date in time...
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Do you think he doesn't reach out to African Americans?
Because I see differently all over FB.. maybe it's just my feed.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)uponit7771
(90,348 posts)... right leaning conservatives voters enough to make a difference so the idea is to nearly ignore one sector or just talk in platitudes (We've got to, I'm going to, it would be greats... with no details behind them) and seldom if ever really address specific issues
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)in the HRC Camp, or undecided.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)How many of them are Black?
But, more importantly, there are 6,000,000 eligible Black voters, 66.2% of whom voted, at a rate of 90% for the Democratic President.
Do the math.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)This isn't exactly on topic, but it left a huge impression
on me: for some reason I thought when Bill Clinton left
office he was going to pardon a whole lot of nonviolent
african american prisoners. What an illusion. I do not
trust either Clinton, though they are masterful players.
I do trust Bernie, and his history in public service leads
me to believe he will fight for every single human being
in the country.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)he still has time to change course ... and talk to Black folks in a manner we want to hear; not, in the way he thinks we need to hear.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)rather than, again against it.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)21 July at 19:00–20:00 EDT
African Americans For Bernie Nationwide Conference Call
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)white folks being behind the scenes of a Black organization and the Koch brothers being behind the scenes of the teaparty?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)but it seems insulting to African Americans to suggest
they wouldn't think of liking Bernie all by themselves,
or wanting to organize on his behalf, without being
controlled by white people.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/why-rapper-killer-mikes-endorsement-of-bernie-sanders-spells-trouble-for-hillary-clinton_b_7816280.html
Polls are ever-changing, but Americans will never long for a king or queen. When Run the Jewels rapper Killer Mike tweeted "I cannot support another Clinton or bush ever," he echoed the sentiments of Americans throughout the country tired of entrenched political factions in Washington. As for why political dynasties are ruinous to any democracy, the Atlanta rapper says, "I am beginning to see American political families like monarchs and I have no affection for monarchs." This sentiment, in addition to the reasons Killer Mike has endorsed Bernie Sanders for president, can't be accurately assessed by opinion polls or political wonks.
In fact, it could spell trouble for the Clinton campaign and Democratic strategists enamored with poll driven forecasts. When a recent analysis says that Bernie Sanders is popular primarily among "white liberals," the aggregate data used to make such a claim ignores the fact that black children face a 38% poverty rate and African-Americans as a group face a 27% poverty rate. This analysis questioning Sanders's appeal to minority voters also ignores a finding from Pew Research that states, "In 2011, the typical white household had a net worth of $91,405, compared with $6,446 for black households."
In terms of wealth inequality, one candidate in 2016 has been referred to by POLITICO as "Wall Street Republicans' dark secret," while the other "Goes Biblical" on income inequality. As for tackling Wall Street and income equality, Hillary Clinton for some reason hasn't endorsed a renewed Glass-Steagall Act, while Bernie Sanders has long supported a reinstatement of Glass-Steagall. Therefore, it's safe to say that voters experiencing the injustice of economic disenfranchisement might side with Killer Mike's choice of candidates in the long run; especially when more people become aware of the differences in economic policy between Clinton and Sanders.
Also, the fact that an artist known not only for his music (he's been on Real Time with Bill Maher, CNN, and has been vocal about politics) but also for his stances on Baltimore, Ferguson and racial injustice in America has endorsed Bernie Sanders illustrates an awakening in American politics that numbers can't accurately assess. The fact that Killer Mike posted a photo on Instagram of Sanders and Clinton (one was a civil rights advocate and the other was a Young Republican and "Goldwater Girl," but eventually a supporter of Eugene McCarthy) in the 1960's highlights a willingness to dig deeper into the true nature of opposing politicians. It also illustrates a growing discontent among many Americans about a political class that shrugs its shoulders regarding Ferguson, yet expects 45 million Americans to still vote Democrat.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Your sadly and your sigh touch my heart.
I will canvas hard for you in the African American communities here in the PNW for you.
I promise.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)If you are sincere; then, thank you; but ...
I am not running for any office, so you will not be canvassing for ME.
I promise.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)historylovr
(1,557 posts)I mean, I know there were at least a couple of black volunteers when he came to Davenport in May, but that's definitely a good idea.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But yeah, if he had enough color on his staff, they could give him tip on how to grow his support among those groups. I asked a friend why she like Hillary and that's pretty much it. Hillary always has black folks around her and lots of women.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)Those are good points, yes.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just in case something pops off I know who to sit with. I won't go to a rally if it looks like a Tea Party rally even if I support them. Scary.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You can share how social justice ranks up against economic justice ... perhaps, you'll get out 3 words, before you get shouted down.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Unintelligible. Even if I break it down into an ordered list I still make no sense.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Just look at this thread!
historylovr
(1,557 posts)I'm not sure that you caught that part. The title of the article was really badly done, to be generous, and it could give the misleading impression that this was one of Bernie's campaign stops.
The rally was organized by three Sanders supporters from Alabama who found one another through Facebook – and who expected about 30 people when they began planning the event.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/jesus-was-a-socialist-bernie-sanders-excites-previously-unmotivated-alabama-voters/
So, 1) Bernie had nothing to do with it, other than it being to support him 2) the rally's organizers could have done better with outreach, maybe, to get a more diverse and possibly even larger crowd [Woot!], and 3)whoever wrote that article and title should have to read Eragon or Twilight as punishment, and then study Sin and Syntax--thoroughly.
But, I do agree with you that Bernie's campaign needs to find a way to appeal more to People of Color. Even adding to his stump speeches some of the things he's said in his Q&A's, I think, and hope, would be helpful.
artislife
(9,497 posts)They did pretty good. I tried to get 4 of us to go to The Triple Door and I failed.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that this was an organized rally, i.e., an organizing event, I would be quite concerned and ask the question: "How could, in a city so heavily African-American, we have attracted so few African-Americans?" ... it would signal a message penetration issue.
Okay ... I'm going to say this (it will no doubt result in an alert; but, oh well ...)
These Bernie events have an in-door OWS gathering ... it appears to be the same crowd.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)These are locally organized meet up type events done by volunteers. The fact that one of these attracted 300 people in Birmingham is quite remarkable to me. I can't speak to the racial makeup of it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That is probably for the "best" as that would require, either apologetics or agency self-reflection ... I can't say I've seen much of the latter.
(See post #118 for a sample ... I probably should add "angry" to the word apologetics)
mmonk
(52,589 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Report1212
(661 posts)Is there some larger mythical point we're missing?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)or, was that just a statement with a question mark at the end?
Report1212
(661 posts)You dont look for Republicans in a Democratic Primary
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)and I disagreed. All those people were wrong.
I do not think we should be hyper focused on the color of a person's skin, whether it be the candidate or the crowds. We should look at what they have done, not what they promise to do.
It is fairly simple to focus on their voting record, is it not?
I could not care less about a candidate's promises, look at their record when they had a vote and voice, for me that tells quite a bit.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)It wasn't a Bernie Sanders campaign event.
Bernie Sanders wasn't there.
It was organized by three Bernie Sanders supporters on Facebook (who I suppose were white).
And it drew a much larger crowd than anticipated of their (mostly white) Facebook friends.
This is just another excuse for your incessant "concerns." Way to rack up that post count, though.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Ignore" or, better, "Trash" the term, "1StrongBlackMan" ... Then, you will no longer be subject to my "bullshit OP(s), my "excuse(s) for (my) incessay 'concerns'", or anything else that makes you DU Grumpy.
See, it really is just that simple!
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)no matter how strongly I disagreed with it.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Sanders clearly has some issues in this area. I attempted to discuss his blaming guns on gang members last week. A complete NRA talking point used to scare us of the armed black man. Increase gun ownership in the country while not addressing the problem. The NRA has been amazingly successful at this. His supporters, even those admitting it was extremely tone-deaf, acted as if race has nothing to do with it. I don't even think his words can be thought of as an insinuation. He flat out said it wasn't his gun owners, it is gangs in LA and Chicago. The response here from his supporters, except for one, was shocking.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251434912
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251429664
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
bamacrat
(3,867 posts)I live in Bham and love Good People. We just sat around on Sunday. Could have taken our 2 month old out for some fun.
On edit: After reading the rest of the comments I see why we didn't hear about it. But there are quite a few progressives in Birmingham, especially in the downtown area. Bham is experiencing a real renaissance right now.
Yavin4
(35,445 posts)Bernie, like most White progressives, does not connect the dots between racism and the lack of a progressive policies in America. They keep stating that it's the Koch Bros. or Wall Street or the media that thwarts a progressive agenda, and that simply is not true.
Black people know that what Bernie is proposing won't ever happen until you get at the racism in this country.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Yavin4
(35,445 posts)A majority of White people would rather go without a benefit from the government if it means sharing that benefit with Black and Latino people.
They would rather destroy public transportation if it means that Black people can sit in the front of the bus.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I would say a majority; but, rather a loud minority plus an ambivalent plurality
LWolf
(46,179 posts)his appearance at the NCLR Annual Conference?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251446545
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And I think I need to be careful ...
I got blocked from the Bernie Group for posting "+1" to the above statement.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm sorry about that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm "4-square behind him" because I think he's the best candidate running for the job.
I hope others on the fence will reach that conclusion, as well.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/128024104
and this thread is the one where I decided enough was enough and I blocked you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128024147#post10
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Okay.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Just to be clear, that was absolutely not why I blocked you.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Oh ... I get it ...
I was improperly contrite in my self-deleting.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)so I decided to block you. It's as simple as that. I didn't oppress you for your plus 1 or any other reason you would prefer, deleted or not.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Interesting word choice!
Autumn
(45,120 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)say/said is, "I was responding to what you implied .. "
Cute.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Personally, I just don't go there.
But to block you for any of those posts seems a tad excessive.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I had just typed a response to the host, with whom I was engaged, that I recognized he/she was attempting to bait me into saying something Block worthy ... when I hit "post my reply", I realized I had been blocked ...
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Well I guess you won't be making that mistake again.
That really is funny...
Autumn
(45,120 posts)before the poster being blocked
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110712394#post5
and the number of posts by 1SBM in the one thread you looked at I see that he was actually given quite a bit of leeway.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)But you're the boss of that gig, so....
Just curious, did you happen to see this subthread?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=443468
Thoughts??
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/19/tavis_smiley_no_good_reason_to_vote_if_youre_black_or_brown_other_than_helping_to_save_the_democrats_hide.html
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and for him to encourage Black folks NOT to vote, in a Presidential election, is irresponsible.
CK_John
(10,005 posts)And Bernie better admit he has a math problem, he can not avoid any segment of the population and not know why or how to fix it.
You are peeking too soon anyway, so it is time to pull back from the road trips and find out what is wrong, besides Trump is taking all the media oxygen right now.
