2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhen Hillary Clinton Gave a Talk at a Black Church and Insulted BLM
Recently, shortly after the tragic terror attack that killed 9 wonderful AAs in Charleston, Hillary went to speak at a Black Church not too far from the tragedy.
After speaking about racism, poverty etc, she spoke about her mother's struggles as a young woman when she says, she asked her mom how she dealt with her challenges. Her mom, Hillary stated, told her that 'all lives matter'.
No sooner had she used that phrase than the Internet exploded with reaction from AAs who accused her of being insensitive, unaware, and 'just trying to get our votes' which they stated was clear when she refused to use the phrase BlackLivesMatter alone, without 'qualification'.
Some of the comments on blogs and on Social Media were very explicit, accusing Clinton of 'pandering' for 'our votes' without 'having a clue' what the needs of the AA actually were. Many of the commenters expressed an interest in Bernie Sanders who has a long history of fighting for Civil Rights for AAs and for Economic justice.
Clearly Hillary had 'stepped in it bigtime' according to those who were outraged by her use of the three letter phrase.
Airc at the time, Sanders was asked to condemn Hillary's speech. Being the decent person he is, he refused to do so.
'She won't get my vote' 'I'm looking at Bernie Sanders' became familiar comments after that speech.
So is it any wonder that if her campaign was made aware of the planned 'demonstration' at Netroots Nation that Hillary decided to not to show up???
Netroots Nation, which was started by Kos from DK, changing its name after many controversies erupted re Kos himself and his founding partner, has never been the 'Liberal' forum it is touted to be.
Bernie is a real threat right now to the Status Quo, so we can expect a lot more of this kind of dirty trick.
But some of us were around when some very disturbing exposures of the founders of what is now known as Netroots Nation started this event.
And we are not at all surprised at ANYTHING that happened today.
Go Bernie, first they ignore you, then they mock you, and then, when you clearly are making a dent in the status quo, the ATTACK YOU!
And then YOU WIN.
I was a witness to the founding of what is called Netroots Nation AND to many of the disturbing facts surrounding the founders of DK itself. So unlike others, today's events were no surprise to me and the thousands of other Liberal Dems who witnessed what I witnessed also.
I hope this political dirty trick will now renew calls for transparency on who these people really are. WE know a lot, but not enough, thanks to one AA Lawyer who went on a mission to expose the facts AFTER he was banned from that supposed Liberal Blog.
And yes, I can back up everything I am saying here and MORE.
But my main goal is to acknowledge that a lot of money is going to be spent to try to stop Bernie Sanders, AND O'Malley should he too become a threat to the status quo.
And it's up to us to not allow that to happen.
Go Bernie!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Who do you think orchestrated it?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... and now they are both dead and can't deny it ... coincidence?
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)No amount of sarcasm or obfuscation can hide it.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)and how she conducts the rest of her campaign. The ethics, or lack of them, of the candidates will determine the outcome.
People will see through this sort of thing. Time wounds all heels.
still_one
(91,946 posts)I think it is unfortunate what happened at Netroots, but Bernie handled himself well, and O'Malley met with others from Netroots after the abrasive reception he received. From what I can gather a significant portion of the crowd were receptive at least to what Bernie was saying, and those who kept interrupting, I do not believe really wanted to engage in a dialog with the candidates anyway
brooklynite
(93,847 posts)Who tipped him off?
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)That caused an actual spit-take at my end!
The OP will be up any minute now: "What did Chafee know, and when did he know i?"
I suspect Darryl Issa will be ON THIS before dawn.
calimary
(80,693 posts)Dammit, Nance!!! And they'll call dan "scumbag" burton and ken starr in on it, too! "What did Chafee know, and when did he know it?!?!?!"
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)zappaman
(20,605 posts)It's gotta be!
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Beyond bizarre.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)It never fails to turn into a fist fight, for whatever reason.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)You certainly have quite the imagination!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)going to enjoy the revelations that are forthcoming. Keep on roly polying, I get a real kick out of the non substantive responses when the facts are revealed, and all of a sudden, the laughter stops. It's been going on re Netroots Nation for all the years since it's founding by Kos.
"I know a whole lot more about this than you"!
You never fail to amuse!
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)and Richard Nixon are just fictional characters who are too sleazy to exist in real life.
I don't know all of the specific players in this case, but there are plenty who would not hesitate for a split second to stage these outbursts if it advanced their political or personal goals. For anyone to pretend otherwise is laughable.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I know all about Netroots Nation, was worried to be honest about Bernie agreeing to participate.
I was there when it was founded by Kos and knew it was a phony 'liberal' event.
So did most liberals who were around at the time.
We on the Left have always been too 'nice' when dealing with these tactics.
I've refrained eg, from posting anti-other candidates material, while Hillary supporters do not hesitate to continue to spread the false Rovian meme re Bernie.
This 'event' just showed me I was right to be concerned about Bernie being invovled with this.
However, it won't stop him or the people from continuing to work to take this country back from those who have been working so hard to destroy everything that is good about it.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)party has their own versions of giving away to the progressives in the base only those things that don't translate to any real money or power, while handing over all of the economic goodies to Wall Street, Goldman Sachs, and the like.
I heard a founder of DK in a radio interview and he sounded like he was using rehearsed party talking points, not speaking freely about progressive values etc..
I don't put much stock in it anymore now.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Our party has been infiltrated and DK was part of the attempt to reign in the left which they did, sadly.
Kos and his partner, who was indicted and convicted of Internet Fraud btw, not related to his antics on DK, though people did know what a thug he was there, claim to have been just guys with a blog. Don't dare to ask any questions about they went from zero to a million dollar home in Ca or you will be banned from the site.
My concern is that we get a candidate elected who actually cares about this country. I know how rughless the opposition to that goal is going to be.
The Left needs to start developing a spine or expect to lose, AGAIN.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Republicans and the conservadems. I believe a number of would be Republicans call themselves Democrats for strategic reasons, to infiltrate the party. Joe Lieberman for example had no business calling himself a Democrat.
I think judging our "friends" by who has a D after their name, rather than their policy stances, is destroying the party.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)destroying the party."
I'd like to see that in letters three feet tall, it's so true.
Great post, every word of it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He let the host know that he would leave if treated discourteously. That seemed to be a signal to the crowd to listen a little.
I would have liked to have heard both O'Malley's and Sanders' full presentations. I saw only part of the videos.
The Black Lives Matters group certainly did not help their cause. They need serious attention and they need lots of allies. That was not a good way to get what they need. I was very disappointed in Netroots Nation.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Can't get enough of them! Apparently he doesn't do so well in them, after all. Now that other video of the town hall where he's telling a woman to shut up is giving a clearer picture of him.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hey. If Phoenix and Netroots Nation can't appreciate the fact that we have real liberals running for president and let them talk, we'd love to have Bernie out here in California.
The time of the candidates is precious. Not everyone gets to have the access that Netroots Nation had to O'Malley and Sanders.
The Black Lives Matter movement is right to bring their issues to the fore, but not in the way they did. They hardly gave O'Malley enough time to talk. I would have liked to hear what he had to say.
At least Bernie made it clear that either he would talk or he would leave. I agree that questions and answers should be permitted, and I think the Black Lives Matters movement should be heard and loud and clear -- but not when the candidates have been given time to be heard.
Maybe Black Lives Matter should have been given time to demonstrate and read the names (a very effective thing had it been done in a less disruptive, more respectful to the names being read, more thoughtful and meditative way) so that all of us were really listening to the names and thinking about the families who have lost loved ones due to police brutality.
The demonstration was not effective. It was not thoughtful enough. It was too loud and hurried. It should have had more time and space. And then the speeches were not effective. They should have been given the chance to respond to the Black Lives Matter issues more fully and still have had time to give their speeches.
It was poor program planning and coordination. And everybody lost because of it. Most of all the families of the people being named by Black Lives Matter.
Very poor management on the part of either Netroots Nation or possibly lack of coordination on the part of Black Lives Matter with the organizers of Netroots Nation.
Poorly done. Poorly done. That really hurt not only all the three major candidates (Hillary and her supporters get blamed; O'Malley wasn't really given a chance to speak calmly; Sanders had to take charge of the situation and could not fully address the crowd) but Democrats in general and most important the Black Lives Matter movement which came across as awkward, loud, disruptive and poorly organized rather than as the serious advocates for an extremely important cause that they are.
This is especially bad in the light of the terrible killing in the church. Black Lives do Matter. Martin Luther King would never, never have done any action in that way. He was meditative, prayerful and respectful in what he did. And he won a lot of friends for Blacks that way. Black Lives Matter need to organize what they are doing better.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Obviously no one would blame her supporters. Only on this website is there anyone blaming Hillary, and even then, it's innuendo and a big whisper campaign that really doesn't even count as opinion it's so bizarre.
Anyway, thank you for the polite post. I see a lot of what you are saying as being a string of happenings that are hard to manage when they happen in real time. I guess I've just seen Bernie's town halls touted so much here, I would have thought he would have handled things better because of his experience. He was dismissive and seemed put upon that he was taken off message. Being taken off message is the name of the game in politics, but I'm sure he will make adjustments as he goes along in this process.
I do have to wonder, however, if Bernie was confronted like this by Occupy Wall Street protestors if he would have handled it differently and not so dismissively. Nothing BLM did was any different than the tactics of the OWS movement, Wall Street being one of his favorite targets for his audiences. Black Lives Matter -- obviously not so much on his radar.
You are exactly right about acknowledging the protestors and then still managing the event. Aside from the candidates, the event manager can and should have been handled things much better, as well. In the end, though, the protest was effective because it drew attention just like the tactics of OWS were meant to do.
sheshe2
(83,331 posts)Bernie is running for President of the United States. Not Mayor in VT/NH. He needs a thicker skin.
He wants to run from some protesters? What the hell is he going to do when he meets with the leaders that disagree with him in Iran, Iraq, Russia, Afghanistan et all.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)present their issues to the candidates. But the Black Lives Matter is extremely serious, and the presentation should have been done with plenty of time to read all the names slowly and prayerfully or meditatively or respectfully, slowly and not just yelling them out. It would have been more effective.
The organization of the Sanders and O'Malley speeches should have been coordinated with Black Lives Matter in a more cooperative way.
Black Lives Matter and the candidates were all done a disservice with this confrontational, disruptive organization. The demonstration was presented to make it look like there was some sort of conflict between O'Malley and Sanders and the Black Lives Matter movement. I don't think that either O'Malley or Sanders or any Democrats that are liberal for that matter are opposed to Black Lives Matter. We all support it. So why the confrontational matter.
We have to work together to achieve justice for Blacks.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)For many people these type of events are new, exciting, and empowering, but the lessons Sanders learned in the past about them still apply. Seeing right away that the moderator was not up to it, Sanders made the correct decision to address the issue. He was also correct in not allowing himself to be a doormat for rudely behaving disruptors.
He maintained the right precedent, and that was very important. I think this will be more apparent as his campaign unfolds. Now that the Sanders campaign has momentum and juice, people want to get their hands on the tiller, or in some cases just jiggle his arm.
In politics, this is nothing new.
This is all extraneous to the underlying issue, which is literally a deadly serious one. No one person or group owns it, and I hope it gets the serious attention it has deserved for so long. It's going to take massive progress by our society as a whole to fully address this fundamental issue. We won't ever ignore it, and we will make the needed changes.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)the police brutality, is part of a swing toward more of a police state that has taken place since some time in the 1960s, maybe since Kent State. Gradually our prison population has grown to include an unbelievable percentage of our population. Gradually the NSA and other intelligence agencies have extended their surveillance to populations within the US and communications between the US and other countries including commercial communications that clearly have nothing to do with any threat to our country. Gradually we have school police that are not at all like the old-fashioned janitors that were in our schools when I was a child and who hung a paddle over the door, a paddle that was never used except to scare us.
I do not want to detract from the fact that the wrongs Black Lives Matter are addressing are so much, much more serious than the other wrongs I mention. Black Lives Matter is talking about life and death issues. The other symptoms I mention are not at that level, but they help us see that the police killings of Black suspects and innocent people are part of a pattern that we need to do something about -- the development of an uncontrolled police state.
I would add that voter disenfranchisement is part of this whole scheme of gradually increasing oppression too.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)It wasnt until late in the speech that Obama alluded to the problem, speaking of the vast prison apparatus of recent decades as containing and controlling problems that the rest of us are not facing up to and willing to do something about.
He then repeats the frightening notion again with the same word: contain. Police and prisons have been used, he said, to contain the hopelessness when we are not willing to make the investments to help lift those communities out of hopelessness. He continues: Thats not just a police problem; thats a societal problem.
Our society sets up the inhabitants of disenfranchised communities like so many bowling pins. Eventually they get creamed by a bowling ball of one kind or another, and then swept into the maw of a system that provides scant means of exit.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)MH1
(17,537 posts)I'm just curious. I used to spend a lot of time there until I found DU. There were some real pieces of work there, but also some really good posters. I'm just wondering which of the pieces of work you're referring to. (I would greatly appreciate a PM if you don't want to post the details).
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)It's happened and can be judged for what it was. That it was more about drowning out the speakers, and not allowing them to talk before the time for answering questions, was not a win for that small group and their advocates. It's been noted that at that venue there were lots of forums for their voices to be raised, and they had access to asking for more if they were inclined to organize it.
We're left with the optics of it not being about their right to be heard, but their asserting a right to drown others out, and take away their chance to speak.
An utter fail by the moderator and the organizers, and I see them as having been more concerned for getting publicity for themselves. And they deliberately engineered that happening by enabling their invited speakers to be the victims of some political theater.
That's a totally uncool thing to do with friendly guests, and I hope it's strongly remembered and bites them in the ass. The media has a sweet tooth for these kinds of attention grabbers who play the game too cute. They will be there for their respective falls from grace.
George II
(67,782 posts)Is this a guessing game?
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)No need to hold back.
This is the new DU, where everyone has let their hair down - so why not you?
This is the site where calling the Democratic president a "piece of shit used car salesman" gets you hundreds of RECs, and a place on the Home Page!
This is the site where implying that the Democratic frontrunner, HRC, is a bought-and-paid-for Wall Street whore is perfectly fine.
So just let 'er rip and give us all of your "insider info" - we're all dyin' to know what you "insiders" are privy to!
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Don't be coy.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I never noticed any of them slapping down the lies being told about Bernie. I have watched it, and have refrained from using similar tactics against their candidate.
I do however have a lot of knowledge about Netroots Nation, and this whole thing stinks to high heaven and I am expressing my opinion which is based on a lot of knowledge of that organization.
I know I will not be the only one.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I want to see support for this claim. 'cause that's pretty damning if true.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)being part of the thousands of Liberals who learned about this organization over the years. You don't have to agree, that's fine, but my opinion is based on my experience with these operatives.
Hillary is in trouble with the AA community.
The talking point that has been pervasive re Bernie no matter how untrue, has persisted despite the evidence that it is false.
We'll see, but I've never been wrong before when it comes to this deceptive 'liberal' organization and put it this way, 'if it walks like a duck etc.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....you're keeping that from everyone.
Ever hear of a man named Karl Rove?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)tactics being used against Sanders are coming from some very familiar places.
It's harming Hillary unfortunately. Whether she approves of it or not, I can't say, but Rovian tactics don't work the way they used to on a population now very aware of them unlike years ago when no decent person could even imagine the kind of tactics Rove and his minions launched against some really good Dems. And now we are seeing it again, thanks for the reminder.
You clearly are in the dark about what thousands of Democrats learned regarding some of our so-called 'liberal' reps. Not my problem if you are in 'the dark', thankfully most of us are not.
George II
(67,782 posts)Or is it some deep dark secret that no one else can know?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....about what's going on. Apparently it's a "dark secret" to everyone here but you.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)The OP will continually refer to "inside information" and, when asked for details, will imply that if you were in-the-know, you wouldn't have to ask.
And so it goes, around in circles ...
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Perfect pick...
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Just had to call out the same tactic not 5 mins ago on another thread.....it's always clear when there is a huge lack of any back up for the "facts" as stated.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I certainly have asked for something, and got nothing other than Rovian distortions in response. As I said, based on what I know about these people, I am forming an opinion, and on the Rovian talking point that is clearly a tactic.
I want proof of that or they have set a standard which I am fine with abiding by. But I know this, when one side plays dirty and the other side doesn't respond, the people pay the price.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They tend to go silent after all their squirming doesn't get them out.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because some people are being ratfuck assholes on Du is no good reason to emulate their atactics.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)They continue to operate and care nothing for what is right or wrong. They expect the Left not to fight back, and they are right, the Left doesn't fight back, they PROTECT the wrong doers, every time, hoping to appear to be 'better'.
This is our country we are fighting for. THEY turned that fight into a war. Except only side is armed. That is why we are where we are.
Make no mistake about it, they are ruthless and they lie with impunity and even with delight.
I am not lying, I am expressing an opinion based on what I stumbled upon back in 2006 when I joined a blog I thought was a Liberal Dem blog. I don't expect others to understand where I am coming from on this. That's fine, but NOTHING surprises me anymore, although it did back them, as to what these people are capable of.
They HATE the Left, just keep that in mind, with a blinding passion, I witnessed it, they don't hide it, yet they claim to be Democrats.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)canoeist52
(2,282 posts)Your insight is much appreciated, here.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)on twitter last night. I asked him why he isn't attacking the enemy, Repubs, but going after allies. He said it wasn't an attack. I asked if he supported Hillary, he avoided answering that directly.
So, as I said, we are entitled to form opinions and if candidates don't like that, then maybe they should tell their supporters to spreading false statements about other candidates. Those are the breaks if you want to play dirty politics, you might get blamed for things that seem to be connected to your talking points.
sheshe2
(83,331 posts)You talk facts and lawyers banned from a liberal blog. They on a mission to expose said facts? If you can back up what you say then do it! You are not stating a dayum thing here when it comes to facts. What you have is innuendo.
And yes, I can back up everything I am saying here and MORE.
George II
(67,782 posts)"Where's the beef?" or................"Put up or shut up!"
I know the secrets of the universe that will give everyone eternal life, but..............nah, I'm not going to tell any of you!
sheshe2
(83,331 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)This whole thing was clearly targeted at Hillary's opponents.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Because he and his campaign are being out maneuvered. Badly.
But since we've been told Hillary's campaign is inept for some time now I'm having trouble getting the two to align.
I think this is a case of some activists taking an opportunity to be heard at a high profile event. Their idea was terrible and their execution was poor.
Disruptive as it was I don't think Bernie came off looking bad at all and I've thought all along the assertion that he doesn't have the best interest of minorities at heart to lack credibility. I say that as someone who will not be voting for him in the primary but will enthusiastically if he is the nominee.
Anyway it's a shame neither candidate had a chance to be heard.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)additional credibility as the rising comer who's driving the front-runner to desperate measures. I may be the optimist, but I think it shows Hillary has big problems. She already has a huge trust problem.
George II
(67,782 posts)....in Arkansas in support of HER DEMOCRATIC party.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)She would never have considered attending it this year, no matter what.
Implying that there was some kind of nefarious behind the scenes conspiracy behind the Black Lives Matter demonstration today is not just absurd, it's totally disrepectful to the demonstrators and dismissive of the anger they feel. We may not agree with their choice of how they expressed it, but to try to diminish the very real pain that motivated them by reducing it to an act of politcal rivalry is totally disgusting.
still_one
(91,946 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I cannot believe this.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)So glad that there is ONE FUCKING PERSON here who gets it, though I knew unequivocally that one person would not be the OP.
Thank you, scarletwoman.
still_one
(91,946 posts)wouldn't show up where the impression they gave her the last time was that she wasn't welcomed
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)R B Garr
(16,920 posts)bigtree
(85,915 posts)...it's merely using their protest to try and put a wedge between readers here and Hillary on behalf of your candidate.
I think this is despicable politics on your part, and most folks here will see this for what it's worth. If not, they should.
You'll not get one more response from me in this campaign on anything.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)that were clearly bought and paid for, and since I am very, very familiar with the history of what is known as Netroots Nations and its founders, I am entitled now to express my INFORMED opinion.
What you all have been doing did nothing to help BLM, you all USED them, as they themselves have stated, for political reasons, and I refrained from posting material that people I know in the movement were posting against Hillary.
I was hoping that wiser heads would prevail in Hillary's camp. So emulated Bernie and refused to use what was readily available that was not complimentary to her.
Now I see I was wrong to expect any decency at all from that organization.
Expect a whole lot more from the many people out there who are way more familiar with all this than I am.
I actually, am being very restrained.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I hope you take that as the compliment it was intended to be!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Can't help yourself can you?
Someone else said it best:
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)on that pretense? I have wanted to ask this for a long time, why did you do that? What was your goal? Frankly when someone engages in such deceptive behavior it is difficult for me to take them seriously. Here's your chance to explain that pretense, or not.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)drowning out Bernie while he was in the middle of a sentence about inequalities in job opportunities between whites and minorities.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)camp over the past months. Sorry you find it upsetting when people do not lie down and accept these tactics anymore.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Hillary supporters against someone who has gone out of his way NOT to attack her. She needs to reign in her supporters as it is harming her greatly, as woo tends to do.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Now it's a "nasty lie" to say your contrived story (woo) doesn't sound believable?
Yeah, thanks for the fish.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Under other circumstances, it might have just been an extension of a worthy meme.
Kind of like "Men are oppressed too." If it's an instant rejoinder to a discussion of women's issues, it's a blow-off. In a discussion of many layers of oppression, it might be OK.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Now they are claiming to 'care' when in fact they were attacking those who found her remark to be a sign that she was out of touch with a movement that most people who were following it since Ferguson, were aware of.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)She went to Netroots Nation in 2007, was heckled, and made it clear that she would never attend again.
I don't give a rat's ass about what secret "inside" knowledge you have about Kos, Netroots Nation, or anything else. What happened today had nothing to do with Hillary.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)can assure you I am being very restrained here. So think what you will, I know that these people play dirty and saw the harm they did to many good Democrats. I will not play the game the Left has played for so long of always being the 'nice guys' who won't 'get down and dirty' the way they do. We have a country to fight for, and that is what I intend to do. I am confident that literally thousands of the people who were around this deceptive org know what I am talking about.
Not too concerned about those who don't
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I'm going to control myself when I say this. Are you saying the movement allowed themselves to be tools of the HRC campaign?
Hillary was not there because she was booed and heckled the last time. If she had gone this time I believe she would have gotten the same response Bernie and Martin did.
Proceed at your own peril if any of the campaigns including Hillary's believes the blm movement is a tool to be used. That is the whole fucking point. Someone is going to address the issues that matter to blm or expect to be called out.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of the leader of that group, then tell me that this person represents that entire movement.
Seemed to me from his emails that he simply hated Bernie Sanders.
Fyi, I have followed the movement since its inception after Ferguson and have come to know many of the people involved over the past year. THIS is NOT their style at all.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)For someone who has "followed the movement since its inception",it seems you should know who they are and their positions in the "movement".I'd love to see you accuse either one of those women to their face of being trolls or operatives playing at shady politics for profit or whatever other reason you're hinting at.
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)like a setup to me. I don't know if Hillary's people planned it or if it was someone else, but it sure seems like it was planned to go the way it did. They obviously didn't want Bernie or O'Malley to be heard, and the people who were getting up to speak were fools. I'm glad this happened early in the campaign, though. It will give the candidates plenty of time to regroup and learn from this mistake.
still_one
(91,946 posts)rudeness expressed by some at the event was due to their frustration with what has been occurring to African Americans by law enforcement, and other issues of unequal treatment in this country. They took it out on the candidates that were there as a release of their frustration, not because of some "setup". Also, it didn't represent everyone at the TownHall. Many were listening to what Bernie said and responded accordingly
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)than I do or Sabrina does. I'm just saying that it looked like a planned disruption to me. Who was behind it is anybody's guess, but the moderator sure seemed to be going along with it.
still_one
(91,946 posts)anyone who attended the town hall commented about it on DU? That might be insightful
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)A lot of people on DU are just making a lot of conjecture about it, and I don't think anyone here really knows more than you and I do. I watched the videos to see what I thought about it, but I know that's not the same as being there. Hopefully we'll see some articles from reporters who were there and maybe have some inside knowledge. I think, though, that this whole thing will be forgotten in a couple of days. Those disruptors aren't serious people, and really don't deserve any attention.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)....so hurry and do a hit piece on Hillary. It's so obvious, it's almost comical...or almost pathetic.
And as usual a bunch of rhetoric without any back up.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)claims about a good candidate who represents all that is good about this country with a record to prove it, is of no consequence to me. You lost any credibility you might have to be complaining at this point by participating in those false claims.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Most everyone else can tell the difference
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Back it up or apologize.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Wow, you really are somethin'.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)You could c&p the threat...you won't find one...so perpetuating a Rovian lie doesn't become you. I'd suggest you stop.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Advocate of Civil Rights along with a strong advocacy for women's and children's rights worldwide. This is widely known. She will not stop working for anyone, All Lives Matter.
kath
(10,565 posts)Smh
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)No tone deafness at all...
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)is issues which happens in the latino group so why is one life any better than the other?
Gman
(24,780 posts)Just because BLM upstaged Sanders, some anecdotal posts about reactions to Hillary don't mean she's worse. Her support in the AA community is solid.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)support of AAs. HER supporters however have been running around with a Rovian talking point attempting to undermine the solid record, including his participation in the Civil Rights Movement, and claim falsely that Bernie 'doesn't care about AAs'. That is an egregious lie. Nothing like that has been stated by Bernie supporters re Hillary.
I'm assuming, considering this comment, that you have let Hillary's supporters know how you feel about this kind of nasty, deceptive campaigning.
If you have not corrected those false, Rovian tactics, then your comment means nothing.
Gman
(24,780 posts)About the all white crowd Hillary spoke to. And if some HRC supporters are attacking Sanders' record on civil rights they are wrong and I'll call them out if I see it. And why are we even talking about Hillary? She wasn't there.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)from Bernie's events in NH and VT which attempted to claim that since the crowds were mostly white, HE had a problem with minorities. So people got sick of the stupidity and someone posted the Hillary event photos to EMPHASIZE how stupid the Bernie attackers were to try to make something of the fact that in those states the crowds are GOING to be white.
Sick to death of the Rovian tactics. Makes me all the more determined to elect an honest man whose record is beyond reproach on ever important issue we were faced with over the past several decades.
The very fact that Hillary supporters calling themselves Dems would even consider attacking someone who was there during the Civil Rights Movement, and try to attack them based on that, Rovian beyond belief, makes me question who these people really are. It's just plain sickening. Makes me wonder what I am doing here on a forum that is supposed to be a Democratic Forum. The internet it a big place now, so people don't need to be around this kind of thing that we mostly saw on Right Wing forums.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)with emoticons? I assure you I am being very restrained at this point. Your opinion means zero to me, but the kick is appreciated.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Kudos for the laughs.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Bernie attracted 12,000 people in a RED STATE tonight, and to think we were told he could not compete in any of the red states!! I hate being right all the time, but I just can't help it!
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You've provided no facts yet.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)be called? Remember how misogynistic it was when women were told they could 'win' a 'dinner' with the male FPers?
Remember when the cofounder of DK was indicted and convicted of internet fraud? No?
It would take a book to tell this story and someday someone will probably write it. Me, I'm moving forward now to getting my candidate elected. But I can't unsee what I saw and I am not alone regarding this. Not be a long shot.
All I can say is, Liberal Dem Candidates should avoid NRN.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)You won't be getting any facts.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)oasis
(49,150 posts)On his team who began a smear campaign on any of his opponents based on flimsy evidence.
George II
(67,782 posts).....at Netroots Nation that Hillary decided to not to show up???"
For about the 8 millionth time today, SHE DID NOT SHOW UP BECAUSE SHE HAD A PREVIOUS SPEAKING ENGAGEMENT THAT WAS PLANNED MONTHS AGO!
She attended a very important Dinner/DEMOCRATIC fundraiser in Arkansas, one extremely important to the Arkansas Democratic Party, their biggest fundraiser of the year. You may recall that she has a bit of a political stake in Arkansas?
Now, enough of the vague hints - "I can back up everything I am saying here and MORE" - isn't it time that you start backing it up????
Beacool
(30,244 posts)Sigh.........
For the record, ALL lives matter.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Because I agree with the OP.
Gman
(24,780 posts)White progressives alone are not the party, nor are they smarter than anyone else.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Hear me, Bernie supporters. Put this at the top!
" we can expect a lot more of this kind of dirty trick."
Yes we can expect more of the same. Need you ask why? We know them. We know what they are.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)just not this one.
Or ones. No upside down simile needed. Just intelligence.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)What this OP is suggesting is absolutely ridiculous, so this is actually the least offensive response.
What I would really like to say in response to this garbage would likely result in a hidden post.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)On Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Lol!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=457776
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
The poster is CLEARLY mocking my reasonable post.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:53 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: c'mon now
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry, No.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Some of this stuff is beyond classic. DU at it's finest, indeed.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)to pull a political dirty trick on Bernie?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Black Lives Matter and that is why Go Bernie.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)If HRC got heckled in 2007, hasn't attended since because she wasn't running for president and now is, why didn't she attend today?
Remember, she is our rough and tough fighting Champion and she could have shown us the way to handle these bullies and lead us thru any obstacles in her path. This should be a piece of cake for a Grand Champion
TM99
(8,352 posts)I am also bi-racial and fully support BlackLivesMatter.
I support social protests. I love that they did this especially at Netroots Nation. What I didn't like was that both Sanders and O'Malley were more than willing to dialogue, and the protesters would not stop.
I think Sanders handled it better than O'Malley. He was not there to address one issue alone so off the cuff, he spoke truths. O'Malley unfortunately chose to say all lives matter which does piss off those of us who support this. Of course, all lives matter but when a disproportionate amount of young black men and women are being killed by the police, it is important to address that head on.
Sanders spoke more in his later speech about this problem and received a huge round of applause and standing ovation for his statement about holding this police officers fully accountable for their actions. And this crowd was hugely diverse. Hell, some of the early morning protesters were there.
Now was this a setup? I think that Elon James knew this was going to happen and did nothing to warn his fellow organizers of NN that it was coming. So it did broadside them. I think the hosts handled it the worst of all.
I am a bit perplexed why they chose this particular event alone and frankly I would not be at all surprised if the Clinton campaign was involved. People will scream this is a conspiracy theory. Yeah, I fully admit it, and it is simply my informed opinion. But the timing and the way it was done begs some questions.
If and when I see BlackLivesMatter activists at the next Clinton Town Hall protesting and at all six debates disrupting things, then I will believe this was the start of a valid protest movement raising awareness among allies this campaign season. Of course I am an old school activist. I think that attacking your allies instead of your enemies is a rather stupid way of getting your goals met, and it tends to back fire. But hey, like I said, I don't do Post New Left liberalism.
If they are going to do this, then fucking do this. Go to as many Town Halls and protests. Do this with ALL candidates including the queen apparent. Do this at each and every one of the primary debates. Mount a massive protest at the Democratic convention next summer. But if this was it and only it, well, it was poorly planned and executed. It will make them look bad, not the candidates. And it doesn't help Clinton a damned bit. Not after the speech Sanders just gave tonight to close to 12,000 people in Phoenix fucking Arizona!
djean111
(14,255 posts)Pretty much staying out of this fray.
I do think it weird that Obama and Holder are not attacked in this way - they can actually do something. And did not.
Institutional racism can be addressed. Actual racism cannot be legislated away. Anyone who demands that is willfully and calculatedly wrong.
I do believe I will spend most of my available time talking to whoever I can about Bernie, and I will be voting for Bernie, no matter what happens. There are already things that preclude my ever voting for anyone else - and I find it remarkably telling that only Bernie is being demonized here - but I have this thing to say about the Clintons.
I honestly believe that they see the world and all the people in it as opportunity to get Hillary to the White House.
Only an opportunist would make up an elaborate story about being shot at, for instance.
So - no vote from me, and I will be working quite locally, friends and family and acquaintances and even the Jehovah's witness who come to my door. For Bernie. And my "gold standard" for politicians - did they vote for Fast Track, or do they belong to the New Democrat coalition? If so, no vote. If some groups are prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater, than I will add my little push.
I will be reading LOLCats and then outta here - it is getting ugly and the ugliest are the most predictable.
Brave post, thanks, feels right to me. Let's see if they only attack progressives or if they also go after the corporate candidates.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. I really appreciate it.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)It could have been a 20 year old part timer or a senior advisor. When a major long time politician sees a threat action is taken.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I hope they do the same thing at the Republican debates and at any Hillary event also.
As you said, that would show people who are suspicious of the way it was done, especially since Hillary's campaign has been using a Rovian Talking Point to try to undermine Bernie's long history on Civil Rights, that it was a genuine protest and not politically motivated.
Very good post, it would make a good OP.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)....the newest campaign poster for Bernie Sanders.
FEEL THE CONSPIRACY BERN/2016
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice
I see a bit of both, myself. I think everyone involved was all too aware of how clever it would be to muck up the talks of O'Malley, and Sanders.
That it just happened the way it did, and with the bizarre interactions of the moderator, was more about incompetence, and lack of thought, imo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)and neither minds using innuendo to push their conspiracy theories.
Sid
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)orchestrated this. It was organized by those active in the Black Lives Matter movement.
Sheesh. It was not a dirty trick. It was not an ATTACK on Bernie or O'Malley.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Dr Oz is a great liberal, and Hillary conspired with NRN and BLM to take down Bernie and Mo'M. Super serial! I have proof, but I can't show you.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Sounds like you have some inside information!
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Based on my informed opinion.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)everything will be fine! It's just politics and politics is tough sometimes! So relax!
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I love kicking ridiculous threads. Make sure everyone gets a proper laugh.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You are totally clueless about the BLM movement, aren't you?