Dear white progressives: Stop telling black people how to vote

[bravenak]

Janessa Robinson




We are now in the midst of the 2016 presidential election, which means both parties are pandering to their bases as well as to unlikely voters who may be swayed to their respective sides. Although it’s early, this election cycle has already been dominated by questions of which candidate will garner “the black vote,” as if black people are monolithic. Given that thousands of black people are currently leading a social justice movement across the nation that the media has dubbed the “Black Lives Matter Movement,” the black electorate appears to be at the forefront of politicians’ minds.


There is a history of black communities voting Democrat — that is, when we are actually allowed to vote, as we were historically targeted for explicitly racist disenfranchisement in the 20th century and felon disenfranchisement in the 21st century. During the 20th century, the Democratic Party was well known for instituting anti-black policies in the South such as Jim Crow, poll taxes and literacy tests. Since then, the Democratic Party has shifted its image to racial indifference, while the Republican Party picked up its racially hostile characteristics.



http://www.salon.com/2015/07/21/dear_white_progressives_stop_telling_black_people_how_to_vote/

[Fearless]

1. No one is telling you how to vote.

Black, white, or any other group.

[bravenak]

2. Please read the article. I did not write it.

It has great points that I have made that people thought I was making up.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. This is true ... The title is somewhat misleading; but, none the less ...

the writer makes some great and valid observations, that if heard by a candidate (or party) would moot the question of having to seek the Black vote.

[BainsBane]

154. People have tried to tell me how to vote

I'm not black, but I've had people demand I vote for Sanders.

[Fearless]

163. Links?

[BainsBane]

211. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026797259

You can read the responses to this OP Of mine. I'm am not calling out anyone and getting a hide.

[Violet_Crumble]

254. There's not one single post in that thread telling you how to vote...

I just read through it again and there's plenty of posts with you telling people they can't tell you how to vote and them replying and telling you they weren't trying to tell you how to vote.

[treestar]

340. I'd be willing to say people are trying to convince

us to vote for Sanders but doing so in an ineffective, dumb way.

Nobody can tell anyone else how to vote. They can only try to persuade.

We have a lot of DU argument on the negative side, arguing that one should vote Democratic because failing to do that means the Republicans win. I find that argument to be totally true, but some people just can't stand it. They don't want to face the fact that staying home helps Republicans. So the argument is not always effective.

Trying to convince people to vote for Bernie is a real up hill battle, so it must get frustrating at times.

[heaven05]

308. oh I beg to differ

contrary to what you think you know about who is telling whom, who to vote for, a lot of 'splainers' on here have for the last three years been trying to tell us lazy, unable to comprehend reality POC... .... how to feel about murder of unarmed POC, how much patience we must have until the privileged finally give us what we need to survive bullets or a rope, how to think about white privilege and how to STFU. And oh yeah: how and why we should vote for BS. Not anymore. BS supporters want acrimony, total compliance with their biased and privileged BS and war. They got it.

[Fearless]

321. Links?

[heaven05]

327. find them yourself

I'm sick of doing the work for the privileged. I know of what I speak. I don't care if you don't want to know. Remain blind. Trains a-coming.

[Fearless]

330. In other words you've got nothing

[heaven05]

331. I got everything

you've got zilch because you want zilch. I am not going to do your work for you. That allegedly ended with, well in 1865, but we know how that has worked out even to the present day. Son, I've got everything. You? 0. The transparency of the american privileged shows, really. I mean really. Trains a-coming.

[Bobbie Jo]

332. ...

[Fearless]

333. Proof is the burden of the accuser

Who on DU is telling you how to vote?

[heaven05]

334. take your burden and....wait for it, wait for it...

put it on your back. No need to prove ANYTHING to you when the proof is here. Go do your own work. I'm finished "proving" anything to the supporters of BS or doing any more work for them. The proof is all over these forums, especially the BS forum. #Black Lives Matter.

[Fearless]

336. Have a wonderful day.

[bravenak]

5. I can tell you did not click the link.

[SunSeeker]

21. "race nagging"

[geek tragedy]

49. Hey, that person is your ALLY. Anyone pretending

otherwise is a race-nagger apparently.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. If you change one letter in nagger it gets mighty unpleasant.

I have seen several posts in that vein.

[geek tragedy]

56. I've seen "thugs" and ""SJW" and red-baiting.

A whole lot of white liberals can turn to snarling racial antagonism when they feel like black folks are speaking out of turn.

This is how society programs white people to think.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. There is a whole lot of paternalism and a more than a little bit of the other ism

Unfortunately there is a whole lot of paternalism and a more than a little bit of the other ism in white liberalism.

[geek tragedy]

79. very often people believe they know everything and have nothing to learn

from those who disagree with them.

this is especially the case with dogmatic ideologues.

and white people get programmed to think that black people shouldn't be talking back to them or making them uncomfortable

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. I don't know if this story is apocryphal or not but it's a great metaphor.

I don't know if this story is apocryphal or not but it's a great metaphor, that after the Battle Of Long Horn a Native American woman cut off General Custer's ear so he would hear better in the next life.

[Ken Burch]

257. True. Although "SJW" is basically a right-wing white dude thing.

It's used to imply that people(especially online) are speaking out about things they don't really care about.

[geek tragedy]

258. SJW gets used with alarming frequency here.

Not sure what that means.

[awoke_in_2003]

260. Usually the ones using SJW

(Social justice warrior) are using it as a put down to the people it is directed at. Usually the one using it is an MRA (men's rights advocate)

[Ken Burch]

264. It stands for "Social Justice Warrior" and it's not used as a compliment.

Had no idea it was being used here...it's not a term any progressive person should EVER use, since it is used to imply that the person it is applied to has an absurdly high sense of their own importance and is always making a big deal about nothing.

[spqr78]

315. SJW confusion

The first time I heard it was when someone I knew used it sarcastically, warning me that I was going to be called a social justice warrior if I didn't stop arguing with some gamergate trolls. My first thought was, OK, it's a bit grandiose, but I've been part of groups with sillier names (a multi-cultural group in high school called patches, which I think was a quilting reference, comes to mind).

If hateful idiots worst insult is that you're someone who fights for social justice, take it as a compliment.

[okasha]

142. Someone inadvertently told the truth

about white "progressives'" attitude about African Americans and, undoubtedly, other minorities. I don't know whether to be relieved that it's finally out in the open or just throw up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. Being a white liberal myself I am hardly surprised...Some folks are just "liberal enough."

[1StrongBlackMan]

177. Since DU "progressives" have taken to quoting Black "leaders", I offer the following ...

In this deceitful American game of power politics, the Negroes (i.e., the race problem, the integration and civil rights issues) are nothing but tools, used by one group of whites called Liberals against another group of whites called Conservatives, either to get into power or to remain in power. Among whites here in America, the political teams are no longer divided into Democrats and Republicans. The whites who are now struggling for control of the American political throne are divided into "liberal" and "conservative" camps. The white liberals from both parties cross party lines to work together toward the same goal, and white conservatives from both parties do likewise.

The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_120463.htm

Malcolm was a wise man. And here's another one:

Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.…

- Matthew 7:15-17

[calimary]

204. Excellent quotes, 1SBM.

Painful. But excellent. I'm adding them to my quotes collection.

[randys1]

210. Dear god Malcolm, you are making me uncomfortable and I am white, stop it please

[Fozzledick]

310. I was going to ask about the timing and context of that quote.

I couldn't help wondering if he made it while he was still adhering to the racist party line of the Nation of Islam, or after he made the Hajj to Mecca and realized that mainstream Islam welcomed all races without prejudice, so I clicked on the link to your source and found this:

note - this speech was delivered before Malcolm left the Nation of Islam and accepted true Islam -- so his views in this speech do not reflect his own or those he held near the end of his life.

Well, that answered my original question, but now I'm wondering why you chose to post such an inflammatory and divisive message without explaining it's historical context.

[1StrongBlackMan]

313. Because ...

while Malcolm, after the Hajj, accepted the "Oneness of Man" under the "Oneness of God"; Malcolm remained color conscious and he still maintained a healthy distrust of white liberals and their penchant for using Black people to secure their own political agenda.

[spqr78]

316. politicians lie?!?

I can't believe politicians have been lying to black people all this time. I mean, I'm white, so they don't lie to me or manipulate my fears and hopes in order to secure their power.

MY GOD! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US?!?

We need to get this information out to the public. Why did no one warn us? Oh, wait...2000 years ago...

“Politicians are not born; they are excreted.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero

Maybe we should look at the careers, the lifetime of choices made by the candidates to see where they stand and on whose side they'll fall when they walk into the oval office.

[1StrongBlackMan]

328. Malcolm wasn't referring to only politicians. n/t

[calimary]

201. I know what you mean, okasha.

"I don't know whether to be relieved that it's finally out in the open or just throw up."

[zappaman]

206. But it's ok for white people to use it...

Cuz rappers do!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6993051

[randys1]

213. White people who say or type that word do it on purpose, gives them power

[zappaman]

215. It's a sickness.

That poster should come use it around my AA in-laws...see how that works out.

[randys1]

219. NEVER , they are complete babies, NEVER

[zappaman]

236. But hey it's cool to use on an anonymous message board!

Especially if "rappers use it"!

[stevenleser]

108. What is amazing to me is how delicate some folks are regarding their candidate after what they have

been saying for six years regarding Obama, and what they are now saying about Hillary.

I haven't forgotten. I doubt many other Obama supporters have forgotten. We recognize the names.

You don't get to be all upset about your candidate being criticized and challenged after all of what you have said.

The person who said "Race nagging" is not a racist, I'm pretty sure about that. But they were driven to make that outlandish comment because they lost their cool and got upset that their candidate was criticized. And that person has been relentless in their criticisms of Obama and Hillary.

That hypocrisy is not OK.

[geek tragedy]

109. for some people, support for Bernie Sanders is just another purity litmus test

in their rigid, dogmatic view of the world.

They are never wrong, they know everything, anyone who disagrees with them is either corrupt or ignorant, and it's a moral character flaw to express skepticism

[stevenleser]

111. I agree RE: the whole "they are never wrong thing", so true. There is an arrogance that has come out

from the BLM thing. A condescending and smug arrogance.

Not all of them. Some Bernie folks have definitely shown they get it.

[sufrommich]

113. +1. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

157. There are degrees of racism and not every racist wears a hood./NT

[stevenleser]

159. I totally get what you are saying. I've made the decision to believe the best here and I can

understand those who are not so inclined. It was a pretty ugly thing to say.

[mcar]

158. That's what has struck me most too stevenleser

Amazing, isn't it?

[bravenak]

166. This.nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

185. That hypocrisy is not OK ... Nor, is the term "race-nagging" ...

this person is as NOT racist as the 1960s shopkeeper, complaining that those "Northern Agitators were getting his negroes all riled."

[bravenak]

192. Race nagging.

Sound like, 'Hey black people, stop harassing us about you all dying in the street and all that BLACK stuff! Don't you wanna break up the banks? You're not a liberal!! All you care about is making it to old age!!"

[randys1]

216. BLM says this has just begun....which I LOVE

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/blacklivesmatter-co-founder-warns-presidential-candidates-we-will-shut-down-every-single-debate/

[bravenak]

218. I'm so excited!!!!

[Number23]

234. White "progressives" think that they actually own the term progressive and get to define everyone

that fits in that fold.

It doesn't matter that their definition is probably way too narrow, way too small, and leaves out a PLETHORA of issues that are critically important to progressives of ALL stripes. These same folks think that screaming solely about Wall Street and blathering "WE aRe the 99%!11" covers all things liberal, and if anyone begs to differ, then they are bringing up unimportant "distractions" that take away from the "REAL" issues.

I have seen post after post after post, including from DU "Darlings," about how the people questioning Bernie and daring to talk about racism right now "aren't really progressives." Well, they probably aren't "progressives" according to these people's very narrow, very insular and very meaningless definition of the word. And I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that they are perfectly fine with that. Maybe even thrilled.

[bravenak]

237. Progressive is not just 'break up the banks!' I wish they'd stop for a second and think how stupid

they sound telling well educated black people that they don't know what's best for themselves.
I think some of them are looking around at their friends and seeing how fucking blind and obtuse they are.
I love the ones who tell me 'you never supported him in the first place, how could you!!'
To that I say, 'STFU! Do you see how shitty you treat Obama? And you think my black ass is supposed to supplicate myself to your political God? Fuck that!' The crazy. Don't nobody give a good god damn about their fuckin political purity test and self important blather about how REAL PROGRESSIVES act. They have no clue of what they speak. And real allie ain't gonna sit there for forty years not giving a shit about us getting locked and dying while they bitch and moan and cry real bloody fucking tears that bankers are walking free.

If they gave a fucking first shit about black folks the black lives matter rallies would be filled to the brim with those cappucino drinking keyboard warriors..

[Number23]

240. "cappucino drinking keyboard warriors.." Damn, girl... tell us how you REALLY feel???!!!!

[sheshe2]

243. Sing it!

Brava, bravenak.

[freshwest]

245. + !

[calimary]

343. Nailed it my friend.

"If they gave a fucking first shit about black folks the black lives matter rallies would be filled to the brim with those cappucino drinking keyboard warriors."

That nails it indeed. I found myself searching for white faces in the memorials to the Emanuel Nine, and in the ceremony taking the Dixie Swastika down, and in the marches in Ferguson and Baltimore and too many other cities by now, during the coverage of all that. And when I spotted them (and I did see some), I found myself hoping they were there because they really do get it.

[bravenak]

344. I always look too and hope.

I know that once those marches and rallys get huge and filled with my white brothers and sisters it will be a force to be reckoned with. Nobody can ignore us if we all stand together.

[calimary]

346. I know what you mean, my friend!

During the ceremony taking down the Dixie Swastika, I was looking, HARD, for white faces. I found some! Actually - I found quite a few. And I want to see that MORE and MORE. Just as I did during the memorial President Obama attended, where he gave his incredibly and justifiably amazing "Amazing Grace" speech. I looked for white faces. I looked for white faces in the march across the bridge. I looked for white faces among the candlelight vigils in Ferguson. I looked for white faces among those laying flowers down in the spontaneous "shrine" that grew in front of the Mother Emanuel church after those murders.

It actually changed my mind a wee bit about Lindsey Graham - when he acknowledged how moved he'd been, listening to the forgiveness of some of those family members - through their agony and tears on that Friday where they faced the young, and seemingly indifferent mass murderer. Wow, I thought, Lindsey Graham actually has a human heart. I'm totally surprised! He really was moved. And he was actually moved to change his mind about keeping that damn hate rag up on its public flagpole. I seriously hadn't expected that of him - or anybody else on that side of the aisle. Sometimes shaming is a good thing. I think he became ashamed of it, especially after listening to those families. At least I HOPE he became ashamed of it. Whatever worked was a good thing in my opinion.

I swear, I cried for two days straight after watching that. I don't know how ANYBODY could have remained unmoved after that. nikki haley too, although I don't trust her and I know she's probably gonna use it to appeal to people outside the GOP confines - as a potential VP nominee. She's gonna exploit that all over everywhere to try and prove "Oh NOOOO, We're Not Like THAA-AAAT". Bet on it.

[freshwest]

242. Remember this tweet?

Q: Why won't archie bunker vote dem?

A: He hates black people more than he loves prosperity

Q: But we are the 99%, FDR, stuff

A: Read a book

Unfortunately, that page is down.

[bravenak]

246. I missed that stuff.

[freshwest]

248. It's from a twitter feed link on one of 1SBM's thread in AA.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118716567

It's his OP from The Obama Diary. And I haven't forgotten the names of those who pilloried the best president in my lifetime, just as steven said.

Obama has been better for this country than anyone, he really believes in it and doing the best for all, and did everything right in his own personal life.

I think their comparing him with themselves makes the bashers feel inferior. If they hadn't valued their egos and their petty power more than what is right, this nation would be better off!

[bravenak]

250. Oh, the chickens are coming home coming home, to roosts roosts roost.

This week has been painfully eye opening. All those folks who hate hate hate despise the President cannot handle a small bit of the critical eye on their guy. Oh, the iron-knee!

[Mnpaul]

249. But Archie did vote Dem

in real life. O'Connor was a liberal who drove a blaze orange Challenger. The show was nothing but a slam on bigots.

[freshwest]

320. Wonderful post! n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

323. This just hit me between the eyes...

All you care about is making it to old age!!"

Some 'progressives' have a slightly skewered hierarchy of priorities, I guess.

When your statistical chances of making it alive out of early adulthood are drastically diminished, 'progressive' ideological dogma must appear pretty petty.

Breaking up big banking is important, sure, but staying alive just has to take precedence, wouldn't you think?

Hang in there, bravenak.

[bravenak]

324. Lol!! Thank you, hanging in!

[Surya Gayatri]

325. ...

[bravenak]

326. Thank you!

[Cha]

286. I know.. how could anyone ever use that term, no matter how "hurt" they

were, that their candidate was getting called out for his actions at NRN?

[1StrongBlackMan]

301. No ... I suspect that term had been rattling around in the head ...

of that (and several other DUers), long before BLM's protest at NRN.

[calimary]

199. I haven't forgotten, either, stevenlesser.

And "race-nagging" is just a little bit too much, imo.

[1StrongBlackMan]

205. Come on ... But he/she was really, really angry when that word slipped out ...

ask any Black person what happens when they make a liberal really, really angry ... a word, very similar to that one slips out.

[calimary]

223. Well, I don't really see that as a good excuse - that one must be really really angry when

Last edited Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:40 PM - Edit history (2)

that word slipped out. Seems to me something like "race-nagging" is just cutting it WAY too close. Disrespectful. And rather reckless, seems to me. It's just such a big mistake to go there, or even hint around, being cute by half, about going there. Seems to me as though African Americans have plenty of reasons to object.

The one thing I try to do is to ATTEMPT to imagine how I'd feel in that situation. Granted, I'm white. Sandra Bland was black. But we're both women. So I've been watching all this newly released video of her encounter with that cop. And while I hear the conversation between them escalate, I keep wondering WHY he tailed her for so long, in the first place. She didn't use her blinker to signal - and she gets PULLED OVER??? Seriously???? She was not speeding. Not driving erratically as though she'd been drinking or something. Not cutting a pedestrian off mid-step or anything. Not running a red light or a stop sign. Do you know how many lane changes I see in ANY freeway trip around here on ANY day, where people don't signal first? Same thing for surface streets. AND there are cops around, too. So I kept coming back to wondering why he pulled her over to begin with, and why he began to escalate things? She sure didn't seem to be a threat to him. I'd be upset, too, if I'd been pulled over. I WAS, recently. And I had to talk to myself to keep cool about it before the officer even approached my car!

One word that's often applied to us women is "uppity." It's a VERY broad-based stereotype. I wonder if that cop immediately, unconsciously just lapsed into that with his encounter. A woman speaks up in her own defense, and she's automatically "uppity." Not allowed to stand HER ground. And on top of that, the woman here was black. Now, that makes TWO strikes against her, automatically.

[freshwest]

247. But the use of the term is in 3 other posts. And no, won't post the links for baiters.

Don't know anything a POC could say to offend this CCWP. So there is definite difference.

[Cha]

238. Oh yeah, They dished it out for 7 years and counting but now.. ?

The Hypocrisy is stunning!

Mahalo Steven.. you wrote exactly what I've been thinking and thinking..

[stevenleser]

241. The lack of self awareness on that score is mind bending. I hope those folks take this as a lesson

If you trash (and are as nasty about doing it as many folks have been) an elected democratic official supported by a fair number of DUers for years on end, guess what can happen as soon as there is someone YOU support.

And then if you complain you look pretty silly, as many of those folks do right now.

[Cha]

244. Yeah, and Bernie isn't even getting "attacked" unfairly.. just pointing out the

obvious.. the Black Community is voicing their feelings.

But, of course, it's "Hillary's fault.." "..some plot by her supporters as a wedge issue.." Unreal.

I was with #BlackLivesMatter long before I supported Hillary Clinton for President.. This is about #BlackLivesMatter and standing with the Protestors at NRN..

It's bigger than any candidate who is perceived as needing "protection".

[treestar]

342. I've noticed that

I recall posts to the effect "I'm in love" with Elizabeth or Bernie. So funny, as we are accused of thinking of President Obama as our "boyfriend" but just about the same people. For over 6 years now.

The idea of actually supporting a politician made us authoritarians or cheerleaders. We were awash in cynicism. All politicians are evil and self serving and wrong all the time and should get nothing but criticism, true or not. Now they are stuck. Bernie is a politician. How are they going to get around that? He's a Senator. Now before, all of the Senate was corrupt. Anyone who could even win an election must be corrupt, or they could not win the election in the first place. Here is a full blown US Senator who suddenly must be made into a hero!

Suddenly that is not "pathetic" and is not "hero worship!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. What is race nagging?

What is race nagging?

" I've already resigned myself to a complete republican takeover of the government in 2016.

All these threats and the race nagging has truly driven me to not give a shit anymore.

I'll vote for bernie in the primary and then maybe join the Green party if he doesn't win.
...'nuff said."

-Zorra

Thank you in advance

P.S. Mitt Romney received 59% of the white vote in 2012. If it weren't for those folks you infelicitously call race naggers he would have been president.

[SidDithers]

335. I'm glad you preserved that before it was deleted...

that shit needs to be exposed.



Sid

[luvspeas]

76. no justice-no peace

On Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:01 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

I've already resigned myself to a complete republican takeover of the government in
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=467809

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Race nagging is a truly awful thing to say.

JURY RESULTS

Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:06 AM, and voted 2-5 to keep IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.

[Bobbie Jo]

101. Gross. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

183. Oh no, no..I think you misunderstood

my comment.

I was referring to the jury result.

That the jury allowed that garbage to stand was...gross.

Still shaking my head over that one.

[luvspeas]

189. OOOOHHHH! Mybad-you rock! sorrry!

I just put down a compadre. I feel like shit. Accept these smilies as my gift to you...

[1StrongBlackMan]

91. "Race-Nagging"??? WTF? ...

and that this has been alerted on ... twice ... and left to stand, with barely a peep of outrage from those DUers claiming to be/want to be allies with Black folks, speaks very loudly about DU.

I am so disappointed.

[freshwest]

95. It also speaks loudly to those who have a lot to lose with a GOP POTUS. Is this a game to some?

[Bobbie Jo]

102. Yep, your allies in action. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

140. Disappointed but not surprised.

eom

[randys1]

220. Remember what Malcolm said ...to be honest, I dont want to agree with him when he says

what he does about liberals, but he is right.

[William769]

93. You have now lost any moral high ground to complain about any slurs against any minority Group.

And if you think yourself proud, you have my pity.

[freshwest]

96. Sad stuff I'm reading at DU lately. Not taking serously the lives of others hurts. n/t

[William769]

99. Agreed.

The good news though is this shit will stop when not if Hillary locks up the nomination.

What a glorious day that is going be! #BLM will also be happy that their voices will be heard.

[randys1]

221. And for the people with that attitude, the rest of us have an even harder job to do

to make sure we get the vote out so we can prevent the Women and Black and middle class murdering GOP from the WH

[geek tragedy]

110. "race nagging"

Why not just tell them to sit in the back of the bus?

[geek tragedy]

112. Jury results:

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Race nagging?" Off to join the Green Party? This seems inappropriate for DU...

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:06 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "Race-nagging" plus Green Party advocacy and stated preference that Republicans win. This person should pack her bags and leave now.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Both sides in DU need to understand each other better. I don't think hiding messages like this helps. If the poster has a pattern of being disruptive they should go. If not there is over a year to smooth things out. If "the other side" can't convince this DU member of something how will they convince people who (I assume) care less about DU issues.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not the words I'd use but this has been a very disruptive week here because of this issue. Poster has an opinion - one I don't agree with and think is a bit hyperbolic and hysterical but whatever. Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think it's hideable. Take it up with him/her in the thread.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't know about race nagging, the poster she responded to is all over DU yelling for white people to talk and listen and when they do she goes ballistic on anything they say. I think this reply to her is 100% right. White people on DU are not the enemy. I'm n ot about to hide this. Grow up and be civil.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Zorra, expected better of you. Race nagging??

Probably best that his not be hidden, so people can see the mentality on display.

[sufrommich]

115. God, that result and some of those comments are

just pathetic.

[seaglass]

126. Mob rule - it's disgusting. n/t

[sufrommich]

132. Well said. It is mob rule and with the same ugly

results that always come with it.

[randys1]

222. DU very well represents white liberals, sadly.

[gollygee]

251. Very little gets hidden anymore

And THAT is why DU is so uncivil lately.

[BainsBane]

153. How would you respond if someone said bankster nagging?

You decide discussion of racism is "nagging" because it isn't about you. Black people are being killed everyday, yet you denigrate the issue as "nagging."

[1StrongBlackMan]

188. How about if Bernie supporters were referred to as "Bernie-naggers"? ...

and for HRC supporters that don't get it ... HRC-naggers.

[John Poet]

283. Heh, that's pretty good.

Pretty accurate, too. DU is chock-full of Bernie-naggers and Hillary naggers.

That's practically all we have here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

302. But we mustn't detract from the blatantly racist implications of that ...

(race-nagging) specific phrasing, as it is a variation of "race-baiting" ... a term every (liberal) accepts as a racist characterization of expressing racial grievances (or merely talking about race in a way that makes white people uncomfortable).

[bravenak]

290. I plan on using this.

[randys1]

207. And that is how we can lose to the cons, if Bernie or Hillary supporters turn their back if

they dont get their way.

EXACTLY

[Starry Messenger]

229. That's a very fucked up thing to say, Zorra. :(

Very sad to see that from you. Truly.

[Cleita]

4. I so agree. But I hope you vote for the guy/gal that is best for you because that person

will be best for all of us.

[bravenak]

6. Thank you.

[Scootaloo]

7. See, it's shit like this...

A bizarre phenomenon has developed out of this — Bernie Sanders supporters lurking in the dark trolling shadows of Twitter to condescendingly tell black people what’s best for us inside a system designed to crush us. One person even went to so far as to call Sanders “one of the first Black Lives Matter Activists.” Others juxtapose his image with captions of Martin Luther King Jr. quotes, and thrust such egregious depictions at black Twitter users. Sanders supporters list his involvement with the civil rights movement as though they have now come to collect on his debt — black people must repay Sanders for his service by voting him into office.

That put the "twit' into "twitter."

I tremble in fear that our political discourse this season will be dominated by 140 characters or less.

Worst part is, I know damn well that I can't blame it all on dingbats "doin it 4 teh lulz lol" 'cause I keep seeing other people everywhere else doing it! Not a majority by any means, but all it takes is one dude with the winds in a crowded elevator to make the whole ride suck worse.

[bravenak]

8. Dude. It's still going on. They won't stop.

It's fucking bizzarre. I almost think that since I said DON'T DO IT. They raced to go do it. It is gonna be a long fucking year. Looooong and filled with tweets.

[Scootaloo]

11. i have a friend who argues in youtube comments.

she won't stop, no matter how much I beg her to. She's one anti-vaxxer away from a triple axe murder or something.

That adage, "don't feed the trolls" goes fourfold when in a medium that doesn't even have a pretense of moderation. and if it IS a steady flood (I don't know, I feel that if i started doing twitter i'd be doing meth next) then maybe it really is dip-ass trolls. Never underestimate the persistence of bored sociopaths.

[bravenak]

12. Omg in youtube comments? Shit! Bad habbit to pick up.

Hell I thought I was bad with the world star fetish! Maybe not so much.
I bet it will keep streaming in for a while. Some people can never let an insult stand even if it's not an insult.

[Aerows]

144. There is truth in this

[bravenak]

171. Lol!!

It's just so true!!!

[Puglover]

78. The most useful thing I have read today.

"Never underestimate the persistence of bored sociopaths." I need to remember that.

[freshwest]

97. Great quote. Desperately seeking their inner sense of humanity and coming up empty. n/t

[Aerows]

139. LMAO!

Youtube comments - my word.

[Cha]

9. "There is a history of black communities voting Democrat.. that is, when we are actually allowed to

VOTE"!

from your link..

"A bizarre phenomenon has developed out of this — Bernie Sanders supporters lurking in the dark trolling shadows of Twitter to condescendingly tell black people what’s best for us inside a system designed to crush us. One person even went to so far as to call Sanders “one of the first Black Lives Matter Activists.” Others juxtapose his image with captions of Martin Luther King Jr. quotes, and thrust such egregious depictions at black Twitter users. Sanders supporters list his involvement with the civil rights movement as though they have now come to collect on his debt — black people must repay Sanders for his service by voting him into office.

I've seen the tweets.

This is what Janessa Robinson means by "Dear white progressives: Stop telling black people how to vote".. most people get this.. but for those who don't.

Another really vital article, bravenak.. mahalo

[bravenak]

10. I hope everybody reads it and realizes that I am not crazy.

I was actually trying to stop them from screwing up and help them out. Ignoring my good free advice!! I felt offended. Maybe they'll see that I was not just trying to be an asshole.

[Cha]

14. No, you're far from "crazy" and any sane person could totally see that.. like this Bernie

supporter sees what's happening..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=465068

[bravenak]

15. Perfect.

[Cha]

19. Aloha~

[Zorra]

70. In this case, it is yelling at people who are not black, but who sincerely want to do everything

they can to help, but don't know what to do. Calling these people racists because you feel they are not helping you, but when they ask "What do you want me to do", they get no answer.

Getting threatened by "we're not going to vote for your candidate if you don't listen to me", and then listening, and listening, and listening, but not hearing anything specific about what how we can help.

Tell us to wrap ourselves in a flag on the courthouse steps and burn ourselves. Go out in the street and protest ask us to join you. Ask us to donate to the charity of your choice, just clearly let us know what you want us to do.

We're not elected officials. we don't have their power to elicit change. We try to nominate the candidates we feel will do the most to help, but they almost never get nominated. Instead vanilla corporate candidates get elected and do nothing to help. This is not the fault of Progressive Democrats, it is the fault of the people who elect the candidates who don't try to fix the problems.

When people say, "hey, what you are doing doesn't seem to be working for you, maybe try something different, try voting for the people who appear to be the ones who are most likely to help you, they get told "don't tell me how to vote".

It's like being a mouse in a maze, a catch 22, an unsolvable puzzle. And it makes me want to give up. I want to help, but obviously don't know how. I ask how can I help, but get no clear answer.

I understand African Americans are angry, You have every fucking reason to be. Non AA progressives are angry too, but people not directly by a problem can only understand and feel it to a fraction of what the oppressed people feel.

But we don't understand why African Americans are blaming us, yelling at us, threatening us, for being responsible for these conditions. Our candidates almost get nominated, so we vote for the same people you do, in the hope that at least some progress will be made.

We don't understand why you are not yelling at the republicans who are killing you and making your lives hard. We don't understand why you are not yelling at the corporatist Democrats who are not helping you. Instead, it seems you are misdirecting your anger at us.

This is causing me to want to just give up, I want to help, and try to help, and get yelled at and threatened for doing so. This makes me resigned to a fractured voting block, and a republican government. Which would be horrible for all of us.

So, please, please, if you wouldn't mind, tell me, right here and now, simply, and clearly, in plain simple language, exactly and specifically what you want non- African Americans to do to help the black community.

I work with people who can't help themselves, and who cannot speak. I do the best I can to to determine from their methods of communication what they need me to to do help them.

So please to tell me. Plain and simple.

I'm listening. But I'm really stupid. So I need you to please make it it clear, simple. and specific.

Thank you.

[luvspeas]

77. get a clue and quit waiting for other people to tell you what to do...

By asking people "what should I do" and accusing people of "nagging" (I won't use the entire phrase you used) you are not doing anything but punishing the people who refuse to give you personal validation and forgiveness-good for them. If you really cared you would get off your computer (nobody wants to read all that-btw) and do something for others because and only because you know it is the right thing to do. You should not give a flying fuck whether some person you do not even know said it was OK or not. Let them hate you. Let everybody hate you. If you are working toward something that you know is important to humanity, it simply does not matter.

[Zorra]

87. Perfect. thanks! nt

[Spazito]

141. Geez...

Your posts are NOT putting you in a positive light at all, they have been quite ugly. You do yourself and your preferred candidate a gross disservice with posts like this and the one complaining of "race nagging".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

151. Did she just suggest luvpeas is a troll?

[Spazito]

152. I took it as saying those who express the need for racial/social justice...

are trolls rather than targeting a specific poster. The troll graphic is linked with the poster's own previous post which was odd but, well, who knows as I am one of those "race nagging" posters wanting to see racial/social justice given the same primacy as economic justice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

155. I don't know what to say...

eom

[luvspeas]

181. well if I'm a troll at least I'm a perfect one!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

184. If you read her magnus opus slowly she seems to be equating a whole race

If you read her magnus opus slowly she seems to be equating a whole race with special needs individuals.

[luvspeas]

186. OK, but only because some stranger on the internet told me to...

It's a good thing too because if you hadn't I would have been blaming you for her outburst. Thank you for educating me. I'm here to listen.

I don't see how you can take it. You are all very brave and strong and probably eat spinach.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

193. It was so long that I literally had to force myself to read it...

Sometimes I think the abundance of words is camouflage for the paucity of actual thought or in the alternative a camouflage for what the author actually believes.

Since this is going to be a lonnnng election season I'm Brian...If you don't want to divulge your first name that's cool...You can make one up...


PEACE

[Number23]

239. By the looks of who she's actually responding to, she just (hysterically) called HERSELF a troll

Anyone arguing with her???

[bravenak]

252. Maybe delete and apologize for your 'race nagging' comment. We are dying and in jail.

It is not nagging. We are fighting for our lives and our childrens lives. How is that nagging? It is a demand to be treated fairly and equally and to be seen. Look at me. Notice my race. It affect me everyday. Why not just join our call and not feel nagged, but instead feel called to action?

Black Lives Matter:
This is a CALL TO ACTION TO PROGRESSIVES!!!SOS!!!!SOS!!! MAYDAY MAYDAY, WE'RE SCARED TO LEAVE OUR HOMES AND THE COPS CAN JUST COME IN AND KILL US, HELP HELP HELP!!
OUR HUSBANDS ARE IN JAIL AND OUR KIDS ARE POOR, WE'RE SCARED!!


To that you say:

Race naggers!!!

I think that was a terribly unfeeling and mean response. It saddens me.

[freshwest]

100. Just the title of the article is obvious to me. Sometimes I get frustrated and say:

What? We gotta re-invent the wheel?

Anyone thinks you're being an asshole on anything can just take a dose of this:



And join the rest of the howlers on Ignore.

[lovemydog]

225. The article describes what's been happening

in America throughout its history. You're a wonderful person and a valuable voice here at DU. The problems ain't with you or with the author of that article!

[azurnoir]

25. the paragraph about Sanders has been posted x2 but the next paragraph is ignored, why?

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton supporters practice the “it’s time we’ve had a woman president” method with black women, as if Hillary’s supposed feminism has ever been intersectional or inclusive between supporting her husband Bill Clinton’s mass incarceration policies and spewing the blasphemous “All Lives Matter” phrase in Ferguson, Missouri.

[bravenak]

26. Thanks for posting that.

I noticed it and wondered why nobody pointed it out that supoorts Bernie. Be nice for them to know he's not singled out.

[azurnoir]

27. True to a degree but there is no wide spread race baiting going on where Hillary is concerned

in part some of the twitter over kill is being done by presumably well meaning Bernie supporters defending him against charges that he is either insensitive to race if not outright racist himself

[bravenak]

29. I wish people would believe that most of us know he's not racist.

He's just not used to representing a diverse area and will get into the swing of things.

[BainsBane]

13. I think the suggestion that black people might want to vote

for anyone but Sanders is now a right-wing meme, or something. There are a whole lot of mental gymnastics going on.

[bravenak]

17. The twists and turns they pull themselves in frighten me.

Nobody can be that - strange.

[JI7]

16. one off putting thing in 2008 was how many Clinton supporters were acting like Richardson

and some others owed Clinton their support. many of them were banned from here. i remember one saying if it were not for white people like her(racist DU member who was banned) Obama and other minorities would be sweeping the floors instead of being where they are.

and even with the Clintons themselves doing the dog whistles the stuff that came out of many of those supporting them was even worse and did far more to turn off voters .

[bravenak]

18. Yep. I felt the same way last time. They turned me off big time.

I have been threatened many times this week with white people pulling their support and to go vote republican, like white folks own the party and I'm just the help. Not good. Almost as bad as last time with Hillary.

[BainsBane]

20. Fuck that shit

NO POLITICIAN should come before basic principles. They are owed NOTHING. They serve at the will of the people. They are not our superiors, and I loathe the suggestion that we have to treat them reverentially, that groups like BLM owes them an apology, or that any of us owe Clinton anything. We owe them nothing. They are asking for our votes, and we have every right to ask any and all questions of all of them.

[JI7]

24. in both cases it was the supporters who were doing it

even at the most negative level of campaigning from clinton they actually never acted like they were owed support .

and Sanders is not doing it either.

[Bobbie Jo]

66. No, Sanders isn't doing it

Sanders will come out of this just fine.

to borrow a phrase...

It's the supporters, stupid.

[stevenleser]

345. Although I will say Richardson himself admits he didn't handle that whole thing very well.

He's a great guy though.

[jtuck004]

22. I took from MLK Jr's teaching - it doesn't mattter what they say, the choice as to

how you feel, how you act, is completely up to you.

You might be surprised at how that frees your mind of Mr. Charlie, lets you think about more important things.

[bravenak]

23. Who is Mr Charlie?

[azurnoir]

28. ................

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Charlie

[bravenak]

30. Oh, Miss Anne husband. Learn something new everyday. Or relearn.

[azurnoir]

37. LOl actually it was a new one for me

and I had to explain to my adult daughters why be reffered to as sunshine could be although not always racist, it's rather old time I think

[Petrushka]

32. I asked the same question --->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Charlie


Edited to add:
Oops! Looks like someone else found the answer while I was typing and previewing my initial reply.

[bravenak]

33. Lol!

I was like duh? Then I rememberd after I saw Miss Anne.

[HFRN]

135. MLK's power was in his understanding the choices to be made

one path, or the other, and that you can't have it both ways

it's why he was a leader

always thought the cartoon MLK and Obama fist bump was kind of corny, yet it is true. MLK's choices made it happen - wouldn't have happened otherwise

[vive la commune]

31. Great article

I wish people would read it and learn. I'm a Bernie supporter, and some of the stuff other Bernie supporters are saying and doing lately make me cringe. I wish they would quit doubling down on the stupid and stop alienating people. I'm sorry you and other black people have to put up with this patronizing crap. By the way, bravenak, I like your posts a lot. You're not crazy.

[bravenak]

34. Glad you liked it.

Thank you for saying that. I'm not crazy. For a while I was wondering if I was the only one seeing it.

I think they will chill out from here on out and we'll forget how bad this was. Hopefully.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. Reading this makes me glad I don't do Twitter.

I'm sorry to read this is going on out there in the Twitterverse. People may be acting out of the best of intentions in defending Sen. Sanders, but it's pretty insensitive to assume that black people can't do their own homework. Nobody likes lectures.

[bravenak]

36. I rarely tweet but I admit I like twitter, and despise twitter.

Cannot win an argument with twitter or have a serious discussion. Hopefully it will stop soon and we'll try to forget the pain.

[Skittles]

38. NO ONE likes lectures

there are FAR TO MANY OF THEM here lately

[Blue_In_AK]

160. You're right.

There is so much talking past each other, on all sides. People hearing but not listening.

[Petrushka]

39. The sub-title for Ms. Robinson's opinion piece, viz:

The left has always used black voters without truly prioritizing black issues — we're done coming through for you---tells me more than all the rest of it.

[bravenak]

42. Made me smile and hoot!

[Vattel]

41. It's nice to see people resisting the "vote for us or else you get the evil alternative" threat.

If black voters or progressive voters or Latino voters start holding the party accountable for its policies, then the party will improve. Otherwise it will continue to take part in things like mass incarceration, murderous wars, torture, spying on Americans, drug wars, ignoring structural poverty in urban neighborhoods, ignoring the welfare of any creature that isn't human, etc.

[bravenak]

43. I agree. We have to made demand not just let politicians decide everything.

They owe us their jobs, not the other way around.

[Joe Chi Minh]

44. I'm perhaps wrong, but I feel that with Bernie, you're barking up the wrong tree,

because I suspect his character, his integrity, means more to him than his political status. It would be something of a novelty for a politicians, admittedly.

Once in office, I would expect him to need no encouragement to go after the out-of-control racists, bald-headed, infesting even officialdom up to the highest levels, as they do, making a travesty of what remains of the law of your land.

[Vattel]

47. I wasn't suggesting not voting for Sanders.

It's more that I like the attitude of making politicians work to earn votes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

288. I get you.

[Vinca]

45. If you want to join a whole lot of ignorant whites and vote against your own self interest,

knock yourselves out.

[bravenak]

46. That is very paternalistic the way you talk down to me like a child.

It was discussed in the article. Don't mind my vote, mine yours. I'm grown.

[brer cat]

63. Exhibit A. nt

[Vinca]

106. Common sense is talking down to you like a child?

Give me a break. If you can't figure out that voting for a GOP candidate probably isn't in the best interest of the black community - as well as the white community - there's little I can say to you that won't evoke another nonsensical comment.

[randys1]

224. Wow did you completely miss the whole point and what is being discussed

[Dawgs]

53. Agree. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

92. You agree with what?

Black people are like "ignorant whites" who vote against their own best interest?

Seriously, is that what you're agreeing with here?

If not, please elaborate.

[Dawgs]

116. I agree with the post above mine.

Not with anything you said.

[Bobbie Jo]

148. That's how the post read.

Was just looking for clarification with regard to your agreement.

Thanks for clearing that up...

[Dawgs]

167. You're wrong. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

170. How so?

Is there any other way to read that post?

I'm not seeing it, that's why I asked.

[NikolaC]

134. It's responses like this that are turning people off

I'm a Carib-American woman who is also a Bernie supporter. I understand that there is some frustration over what happened over the weekend and the fact that some have been using it as an excuse to slam Senator Sanders, but he's tough and is already working on outreach. But, it's comments like yours, from people claiming to be Sanders supporters, that are turning people off because there are possible voters out there who are assuming that a lot of Bernie supporters are condescending, ignorant and myopic based upon posts, tweets, etc. from a small number of individuals claiming to support Senator Sanders.

What you stated in the antithesis of what Senator Sanders stands for and is hardly a way to reach out and inform others. There is a tone deafness going on with some so called supporters who are not listening to what others are saying about race and the serious state of emergency that POC are in.

There are some really good points in the article. POC are not monolithic and can think for ourselves. There is a wealth of information out there about the candidates, their stances and whether or not someone wants to vote for any of them, or they have concerns that they need to bring to the forefront, is up to the individual.

[Vinca]

145. I'm afraid anyone who talks about this issue and is perceived as being white

is treated with hostility. I've always advocated for AA issues, but I'm done. There are other causes deserving of my attention and where I feel my presence is welcome. So . . . go vote for a GOP candidate if you think that's in your best interest. I don't really care anymore.

[sufrommich]

147. " I've always advocated for AA issues, but I'm done"

[Vinca]

150. I'm just not talking about it anymore.

[freshwest]

319. If it helps, consider this. You are not walking around in a black body 24/7. You have the chance of

being done, but they don't. So go your way in peace and let them get down to business.

Your job is persuade white people of your concerns to make a better world. We need all the allies we can get in this world, all of us. That will require learning. At times the lesson is given softly, at other times it is given hard.

But it is necessary to keep to your core beliefs to do what you can do. But black people in this country are just as well-able and entitled to put forth things in their own way and they are feeling pretty put upon right now, in this century as they are still living with the disadvantages they have always suffered.

Relax. The world is going the way it should.

[Vinca]

329. I take your point and I imagine I will continue to advocate.

I'm afraid I feel as if I've been treated as "the enemy" when I'm the opposite. And, after reading many other posts on many other threads, it appears I'm not the only one being treated in this fashion. If even the slightest suggestion, criticism or opinion is offered, people are immediately berated because the are (assumed) not to be black. Apparently the powers of ESP allow race to appear in posts for some people. In any case, I'm burned out on the current fight with me and may delete all the posts to end it.

[BainsBane]

156. I'm not treated with hostility on the subject

but I take listening as my starting point, understanding that as a white person I have no idea of what it is like to be black in America. I certainly wouldn't presume to know what their interests are. That is something they decide, not me. When I see such comments, I realize that people are angry that African Americans, and others, aren't voting for the interests of the speaker.

Clarification: I'm not treating with hostility by most black people. I am treated with hostility by white people who don't like to hear about racism.

[NikolaC]

161. Did you read what I wrote?

Trying to get you to see that your post came across as being condescending equals me, or other POC, wanting to vote for GOP candidates? Truly tone deaf and sad.

[William769]

164. I am white and I am not treated with hostility.

I do however treat POC with respect and dignity so they treat me the same.

And who's voting for a GOP candidate? Is everyone a GOP if they are not Bernie Sanders, is that what you are saying.

The moral of my post is you get treated the way you treat people.

[ismnotwasm]

304. +100,000,000

[Cha]

317. Exactly, William! You treat people with RESPECT and they will respond in kind.. but don't go

dissin' them because they're fighting for their very lives.

If someone is done because #BlackLivesMatter then they were never with them in the first place.


Donna NoShock ?@NoShock
#BlackLivesMatter #SayHerName #SandraBland
6:42 AM - 22 Jul 2015
40 40 Retweets 15 15 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/07/22/profit-and-loss-why-blacklivesmatter-matters/

[Starry Messenger]

322. +1000

[randys1]

226. GOP, did someone here say they would vote GOP in lieu of Bernie?

p.s. your attitude is proving the point of the OP, do you not see that?

[Vinca]

230. Did you notice the title of the original post?

[randys1]

231. You mean this? Dear white progressives: Stop telling black people how to vote

where in that does it even imply that by NOT voting for YOUR candidate they are voting GOP?

[Vinca]

232. Why does that matter?

Isn't the title condescending and inhibiting of any conversation about who might or might not be a good candidate to vote for? From what I've observed, people of all colors (and I don't know how you presume to know the ethnicity of anonymous posters) are telling each other left and right who to vote or not vote for. Thus the constant Hillary v. Bernie bickering. Singling out "white progressives" irks me. I can't imagine the brouhaha if it had said "black progressives." Keep slicing and dicing and we'll be watching Scott Walker take the presidential oath.

[randys1]

233. You are the one who said Black voters are threatening to vote GOP, they are not and that

is what I responded to.

Also, if you are unable to notice that the Black people are upset and this could cause us to lose, then notice - please

or The Black People are being murdered, then notice, please

[Vinca]

235. The GOP reference was an exaggeration. Apparently you didn't get it.

My response was indignation about the "white progressives" telling black people who to vote for. We should certainly be able to opine about who we think might be more favorable on certain issues, but apparently you take great offense at any discussion of who might or might not be more beneficial regarding issues important to the black community. Trust me - at this point I don't care whether you vote at all. I'm so tired of the neverending Hillary v. Bernie fighting - especially this racially charged version - I'm wondering why I ever decided posting on DU again was a good idea.

[BooScout]

309. I thought you were done...

[geek tragedy]

261. "I've always advocated for AA issues, but I'm done. "

I doubt the accuracy of the first clause.

[bravenak]

267. Me too.

[Cha]

318. "If someone is done because #BlackLivesMatter then they were never with them in the first place."

I just posted that very thought.

[Martin Eden]

48. Walk on egg shells?

I don't have the right to tell anyone how to vote, but I would like to exercise my freedom to engage in political discourse which sometimes gets heated. Are there special rules I have to observe based on the racial identity of DU members participating in a thread? It seems condescending and prejudicial to me not to treat every person with the same level of respect and equality and regard for their intellect when engaging in discussion.

I believe the path to economic and social justice in this country requires an understanding of the history and current plight of African Americans. Being of European descent, I have to listen to better understand. This must not be ignored or neglected, any more than a blind eye should be turned to discrimination based on gender or religion. These issues have to be addressed and corrective measures taken. The American Dream has to be for everyone, or it is dead.

Making progress in social and economic justice demands more than lip service; it requires action. I think Bernie Sanders is the best candidate based on his track record and steadfast commitment to the kind of policies necessary for that progress. I also think there has been a deliberate effort to drive a wedge between Democratic voters by over-hyping perceived slights rather than focusing on actual substance.

I am not telling anyone who to vote for. I'm telling everyone who I am going to vote for, and why.

[BillZBubb]

52. Who are these white progressives?

Generalizations like this are annoying. Everyone has an OPINION about who others should vote for and reasons why. Everyone is entitled to offer their opinion. To stretch that into "telling" is absurd. Black people can AND WILL make up their own minds. They aren't going to do what they are "told" and to suggest that they might is absurd.

Also, claiming the Democratic party is one of racial indifference is offensive. The Democratic party has paid a huge political price for fighting against racism and making the country more inclusive. Has the Democratic party always done the right thing? Of course not, but the intention of ending discrimination and creating a just society is a cornerstone of Democratic belief.

[Dawgs]

55. Thank you. This shit is getting old. n/t

[randys1]

227. Yes this SHIT truly is getting old

[ladjf]

68. This post does a great job of clearing up the murky confusion

that has been consistent throughout this thread. The key statement "The Democratic Party has paid a huge price....."
Civil rights laws created and passed by Democrats caused the racist wing of the Democratic Party to defect to the Republican Party.
That terrible coalition of Republicans and "Dixiecrats" has been able to control the House, State and local governments ever since.
The Republicans have instituted numerous devices to deprive those who usually vote Democrat from voting. Republicans have done NOTHING for minorities. In fact they have "left no stones unturned" to deny them their rights.

Currently, the National awareness, sympathy and desire to do something about the horrible treatment of citizens by law enforcement personnel has never been higher. America is ready to solve this terrible situation. I don't think the solutions will come from disorganized noise or chants. It will come from sane conversations among capable and deeply concerned people.

[99Forever]

54. Dear minorities and women...

... this awful white male gets told multiple times every day who I MUST (OR ELSE!!!!) vote for, right here on this website.

Why, precisely should your experience be any different?

[Cali_Democrat]

61. Why are you calling yourself an awful white male?

[99Forever]

64. Because I get treated like one.

Just like Bernie has. Now, please proceed to pretend it doesn't happen.

[dsc]

69. wow I am white hear me whine

[Lizzie Poppet]

71. Yes, when a white person complains about anything, it' s "whining."

Golly, do I get a pass (being female...)?

[dsc]

73. I'm white too

but that poster is still a whiner extrodinaire.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. All I will say is that some folks true colors are showing.

eom

[99Forever]

72. Bu bye.

[Lancero]

85. Jury results, 1-6 leave. (Also, I vote this dumbest alert of the day)

On Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:20 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Bu bye.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=468105

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Announced ignore is petty, and rude. This is inappropriate for the discourse on DU, please vote to hide this post which brings down the civility of our website

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:32 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: rather mild IMO
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not specific enough of an insult to hide. People announce that they're ignoring people all the time, and those posts are almost never hidden, unless they also contain a personal attack.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Announced ignore, or honest disclosure?

Considering that this is all he said, you can't really make that assumption - With as open ended as that statement is, I can myself think of three different things he could be meaning.

At any rate, I wouldn't consider a announced ignore to be inappropriate - I'd consider it honest disclosure, something that is in rather short supply these days. And even then, as I've pointed out he doesn't actually say that he'll be putting this person on ignore - He just says bye.

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: both sides need to chill the hell out

[randys1]

228. Yes LOTS of whining...white males have it so hard here in America

I am used to hearing that CRAP but usually from rightwingers

Malcolm was right

“I can’t turn around without hearing about some ‘civil rights advance’! White people seem to think the black ought to be shouting ‘hallelujah’! Four hundred years the white man has had his foot-long knife in the black man’s back – and now the white man starts to wiggle the knife out, maybe six inches! The black man’s supposed to be grateful? Why, if the white man jerked the knife out, it’s still going to leave a scar!” [275]

[okasha]

263. Upthread we learned that Black folk

now have a "plight" just like us NDNs. Not problems, not concerns, not centuries-old legitimate grievances and injustices crying out for setting right. A "plight."

Looks like the progs think they have one, too, now. Isn't that just so special?

[luvspeas]

83. I just can't quit you, lord knows I've tried...

The difference is that when you get told who you must vote for, you are free to have your opinion as an individual human being without 20 people accusing you of being misinformed; getting a lecture about how wonderful the candidate is to old white men; people not understanding why old white men would have your opinion; calling you a crotchety decrepit penis haver; asking you about your thin white man-hair.

[99Forever]

88. Bullshit.

[luvspeas]

182. I know you are but what am I? Just as stupid a response as yours...

[Autumn]

57. Yes, this article is so true, for Blacks and Whites

Blacks have been taken for granted on a far greater scale and that needs to stop. Like her I have gotten sick of being told if we don't vote for whoever ends up the Democratic nominee it's our fault if a republican wins, the fault lies strictly on the politician who is running. Our vote is the our voice and I will never tell anyone how they have to vote. Great article bravenak ,thanks for posting this.

[bravenak]

168. Glad you like it. The lesser of two evils thing make me think.

I hate hearing that from people. We can do better that pick between evil and less evil.

[Autumn]

174. It has been said, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

We can do better and we deserve it.

[ladjf]

58. Who are the "white progressives" that are telling blacks how to vote?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

262. Seems folks are at each others' throats over... tweets.

I don't understand why people are so influenced over... tweets. I mean, I've been on DU since 2004 -- that's A LOT of discussion -- and no poster here, no matter how obnoxious or condescending or bossy or whatever has any impact on my vote. It all just seems to be an exercise in bashing "white progressives." Not Republicans, not clueless moderates, not apathetic Americans, but white liberals. Meanwhile, I'm more focused on people like this:



...some poor woman trying to survive the DC area on CRAP wages. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing she couldn't give a flying fuck about the recent 'Black Twitter' tantrums, and whether Imani What's-her-Name doesn't like it when some lily-white posts about Bernie and the March on Washington. Yeah, burn it down, AngryBlackLady, just like when you took on Scahill and LOST.

[ladjf]

303. Personally, I'm confused. I have the feeling that behind the scenes there are strategies

of which I'm unaware. People seem to be fighting their allies and ignoring their historical enemies.

[el_bryanto]

59. I am telling everybody how to vote

I think that in the Democratic Primary you should vote for Bernie Sanders - I don't care if you are white, black, male, female, or whatever - vote for Bernie Sanders.

But I respect that you have the right to vote how you like, and you might look at things differently than I do. You might even be right; depending on what your priorities are and how you look at things. That's why we have Primaries to hash out what we as a party think is really important as a party.

It is off putting though when someone tries to suggest that one group of people - in this case black people - are told that they need to vote for someone because they are black or because they owe it or for whatever reason. I think you should vote for Bernie Sanders because he's the best for the job (in my opinion) but I don't think you owe him your vote because of your skin color or any nonsense like that.

Bryant

[Bettie]

60. I don't "tell" anyone how to vote

though I do sometimes beg people to actually get out and vote.

As to suppression, that is wrong on every level.

[brer cat]

65. Good read.

"Having the “lesser of two evils” argument about the political party system shoved down my throat by white moderates is infuriating and irrelevant, because quite frankly, I don’t like evil — and neither candidate will free my people." Read that and immediately thought of you, bravenak.

K&R

[still_one]

67. Personally the article can really apply to any demographic. Who isn't disillusioned?

[kenfrequed]

74. Actually,

I think the author takes a pretty cynical view of the reality of becoming a courted voting block. People have done this to other voting blocks for decades. Everyone based on their membership in unions, to what organizations or professions, to religious and ethnic identities are told how they should vote based on that interest. This isn't really new. I in no way know what it feels like to be black but I do get that this feels particularly toxic right now and that is pretty sad.

Now outside of all that from the perspective of a Sanders supporter I don't like what the result of this article ends up being. It seems to be a call to not try to convince people how to vote. Any status quo argument in this case only aids the front runner and that doesn't seem fair to me. So my question for the author would be: "how do we campaign to you?"

[MellowDem]

75. Politics is persuading people to vote for your guy...

I don't think we would be accused of "telling Republicans how to vote" on here. Much less paternalism.

Most white people vote against their own best interests IMHO. That opinion is politics, and everyone has those opinions, it's how we decide on candidates.

I think anyone of any race voting for Hillary over Bernie is voting against their best interests. That's not paternalistic. I won't tell people who to vote for, but I guess persuasion could be taken that way if not done respectfully.

I do find the quote mining of Twitter users to be indicative of much of anything to be way blown out of proportion. Suddenly any asshat is representative of all "supporters". By this standard we'll have plenty of drama for a long, long time.

[whatchamacallit]

82. Two things heard simultaneously

"You need us to win" and "Quit telling us how to vote". I agree with both, and haven't told anyone how to vote. I don't believe in it.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

84. I wonder if this is the year when ends don't meet.

I share the frustration with a Party that gives only lip service to reforming our insane law enforcement system. I had hoped Obama might do something dramatic in his 2nd term, like pardon ALL nonviolent prisoners of the drug war. I also thought Democrats would care more about protecting voting rights, since that directly affects their ability to win, but no one ever accused us of being smart.

I've long said the party must give people reasons to support it or our coalition would wither and die. I can't blame people for losing faith, even though Bernie is legitimately different from traditional democrats.

[davidpdx]

86. Thanks for the article bravenak

You are one of the most levelheaded people around DU. I have to say the view from overseas in terms of the shootings, arrests, and beating of POC has been alarming. It is depressing that the violence toward POC keep happening over and over again and nothing is being done to stop it. The voting restrictions in certain states will potentially stop millions from their right to vote and on top of that the restoration of voting rights keeps those who have been in prison from voting in some states as well.

We have to figure a way to turn the corner and reverse this. It's hard to pinpoint exactly when this began, but we need it to end soon.

[bravenak]

173. I think we can do it. It's life or death for us.

Sandra Bland could have been me. Looked a little like me too. That is the scariest thing to know I can die in a jail, because I forgot my turn signal and nobody will care. Just another black face on a website.

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. Great Article ...

That shouts truth.

But, alas, despite my, and most politically aware black folks, we will do, what we have always done, and vote for the lesser of the THREE evils ... Democrat "A", that does not have our interests at heart; Democrat B, that does not have our interest at heart; or, not vote, which nullifies a right that too many of our fore-fathers died to gain ... and because we realize the third evil will bring about the unthinkable. Our calculus is simple, we do not/have not voted for the candidate that will do FOR us (on the issues that matter most to us), we vote against the candidate that will do the most TO us. Therefore, the masses of us will support the eventual Democratic candidate - with full knowledge that we will gain little.

Great Article, Bravenak. Thank you for posting it, in all its raw truth.

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. Dear Black Folks: Stop Telling white Progressive and Liberals How to Interact With us ...

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:19 PM - Edit history (2)

They, clearly, know our interests and conditions, better than we do and we must have faith that they have our welfare at heart, they keep telling us so ... after all, they marched with Martin before we knew to!

Besides, they say wonderful things about what the world will look like when we help them raise the tax rate on the rich folks! ... We will get free college (so we can compete with those white high-school drop out felons), they will empty the prisons of Black weed possessors (by making it so they can get smoke, unmolested), AND they gonna raise the minimum wage (Hold on. My phone is ringing. Maybe its that job calling me back? ... Darn, it they gave the job to some guy named Skippy ... Now, where was I? Oh, yeah ...) and, they will jail the bankers (I don't know what that will do for us; but, it has to be good!)

So just have faith!

Plus, all that race-nagging stuff makes them feel bad! How we gonna them to do stuff for us if we keep making them feel bad?

Signed,

1DocileBlackMan

[whatchamacallit]

104. I agree that whites can't presume to know what's best for PoC

but your derision for fair taxation, a livable minimum wage, and curbing the abuses of the war on drugs is kind of misplaced. You should know those things are not cynically offered as solutions for any particular group, they're things that benefit us all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

117. Yes they would ...

and that is why Black folks should just STFU about anything that doesn't benefit us all ... it's divisive and disruptive, and just plain rude!

[whatchamacallit]

120. Where is that implied?

Sorry you feel that way. I don't see general policies benefting most Americans, and the policies needed to address the issues of PoC as mutually exclusive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

122. Here ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=467809

And the deafening silence that followed.

[whatchamacallit]

123. I don't see it from that post

but obviously that's a shortcoming of mine.

[1StrongBlackMan]

127. I am not surprised; but, I'm glad we agree with your self-reflection ...

It's a start!

[1StrongBlackMan]

124. Further ...

I don't see general policies benefting most Americans, and the policies needed to address the issues of PoC as mutually exclusive.

If we, you and I, are thirsty; but, I am thirsty and starving to death from hunger ... do you tell me to be glad for the water, because we both enjoy it?

[whatchamacallit]

128. No I don't

The correct read of my statement is I don't see why we can't have both

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Because "WE" don't need ...

and, apparently, want to work for, both ... until your thirst is sated.

[whatchamacallit]

133. You're flailing

Good luck to you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

138. Yeah ... Okay. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

105. nag, nag, nag....

Just suck it up and stop working against your own best interest, already.

How hard is that???

If only this weren't necessary, but...

[1StrongBlackMan]

119. But it benefits us all!!!! ...

So we must place our petty, selfish, desires on hold ... take one for the team, if you will ... for the greater struggle! Can't you see that?

Sign,

1DocileBlackMan

[whatchamacallit]

121. Don't put words in my mouth

All I said is that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with those policies. The rest is your projection.

[1StrongBlackMan]

125. I didn't ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=468544

[whatchamacallit]

131. Yes you did

Minus your willful misinterpretation, this what that statement means
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=468574

[1StrongBlackMan]

165. Yeah ... Okay. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

129. Are you asking for sensitivity to your views, or obedience?

I interact respectfully with individuals who embody mutual respect.

I think those of us on the working class end of the economic spectrum have an equally strong claim to make demands on the terms of our interactions.

If your net worth is more than $500,000 and/or your income is more than $100k, you don't get to express an opinion on the ways in which inequality hurts people.

The problem with identity politics is we can't be easily identified by our class, and most people are coy about it at any rate.

I'm voting Sanders because I think the assault on the working classes conducted by corporations, the DLC and RNC should end, and since blacks (and native americans) are more likely to be working class, suggests to me a strong alignment of interests.

If you're going to vote for bankers because they said "all lives matter", or in fact said nothing at all, being conveniently out of town during the netroots shitstorm, then you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

I'm entitled to think it's stupid.

[1StrongBlackMan]

136. That has been a question I would have of my progressive/liberal "allies" ...

and of late that question is being answered.

I interact respectfully with individuals who embody mutual respect.

I think those of us on the working class end of the economic spectrum have an equally strong claim to make demands on the terms of our interactions.

Are you telling me to mind 1DocileBlackMan's tone? If so, I'll leave him a message.

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. No, DU thinks I'm arguing when I think we're finally communicating.

Sanders is better on the economy. Sanders is better on foreign policy.

... and Sanders is better about race. I'm entitled to have an opinion on race because I have one too.

Further, the whole point of this board is to convince people to support our candidates. Primaries are messy because it's the only time that we consider more than one.

I respect your right to advocate for Hillary, and you don't need my permission to explain why you think she's best.

I'm going to operate as if that respect is reciprocal.

[1StrongBlackMan]

172. I respect your opinion regarding the "better" candidate ...

but I have said time and time again, I do not support HRC ... I am undecided; but, leaning towards O'Malley. So please stop repeating that nonsense ... if you wish to claim respect.

[bravenak]

175. Post of the day!

[freshwest]

306. Docile now? I think not. The adage, 'Still waters run deep,' isn't the half of it:

Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man.

~ John Dryden

[heaven05]

307. Excellent and true

[Jappleseed]

103. Just had to sign back in to this cesspool of a forum and say.

Not being white or not being black and belonging to one of the smallest minorities around. This is really starting to look like a lot of poo throwing.

Just a heads up.

Ok leaving the cesspool again.

[Lil Missy]

107. Vote as you please. n/t

[nolabels]

137. They establishment has stolen that option

Technically, it's vote as you please, but just staying home and seeing a snippet about what happened the next day is what most people do. Contemplating that those hang around political discussion groups are the same as the majority of the population will get you in trouble.

[Smarmie Doofus]

114. What if they ask me? n/t

[bravenak]

169. Run. Just kidding.

[tymorial]

118. How to vote isn't the only problem imo.

There is a certain expectation among white progressives that minorities and members of traditionally disenfranchised groups ought to support liberal and progressive causes. A white person can disagree with someone like Ben Carson for example but it isn't a white person's place to question Carson's status as a black man. I have seen a lot of hypocrisy on this site when it comes to conservative minorities and women. There were posts the other day concerning Columba Bush that were so outrageous, I could have sworn my browser redirected me to fox news, town hall or dare I say stormfront. I'm not even remotely kidding.

[bravenak]

178. Oh my the Columba Bush post.

I alerted on that one and was LIVID that it stood. Felt like Xenophobe Underground. The hosts hid it later but it had already been seen. Sucked.

[tymorial]

305. It wasn't just a post

I saw 2 entire threads where many many people were spewing what I can only describe as tea bagger bs. They were questioning her ability to speak English. Whether or not she was really married because she didn't understand her vows. The only thing "liberal" about the language used was the liberal use of hypocrisy.

[bravenak]

314. Did you look to see if this was a democratic board like I did?

I was so mad that that stuff was here. But I see now that it's just a sickness in the party.

[PatrickforO]

149. Both political parties have been guilty of paying lip service to the needs of voting blocks

We saw Reagan do this for the religious right and then ignore them. The result was that they worked for decades at the grass roots level and in effect took over the local primary processes in many states.

Seems like the Democrats could learn from this by doing more than simply saying, "Yes the deaths of all these black kids at the hands of police is deplorable and black lives do matter," and then doing nothing about the issue once elected. That's what the author in this Salon article is bitching about, and rightly so.

Maybe if we have such a 'big tent' we can start addressing things like police departments being given military gear and tanks, body cameras for police, and tie federal funding to a training approach for law enforcement that brings back 'serve and protect' rather than 'stomp until the victim totally submits,' which is what we seem to have now. The US Justice Department could be more active in investigating these cases and forcing prosecution. And other federal funding, such as highways, could be tied to the absence of egregious police behavior.

But what to do in cases where the counties and municipalities in which the police brutality crime happens are hotbeds of racism? Federal policies can only help so much, but there will also have to be some grass roots efforts. When I look at those old films of the civil rights movement, it is when we began to see white faces among the marchers and civil rights activists that change began to happen. Ending this racism is something we'll all have to help with because the blacks cannot do it alone. We have to quit thinking of it as a 'black issue' and start thinking of it as an American quality of life issue. A moral issue.

And it is urgent.

[bravenak]

179. I agree. It is everones responsibility. Not just our.

This nation provides those awful conditions and we are told to fix it ourselves and in the meantime vote for what white liberals want. While we fall farther behind and die early.

[ieoeja]

162. I assume African-Americans vote the same way everyone else does.

Compare the candidates side-by-side then decide.

Clinton added, "From what I've seen, the circumstances of this case are incredibly disturbing. I hope and expect that there will be a full investigation into this situation. It is also a tragic reminder of the ongoing systemic issues of race and justice in America that we must address with urgency, and we have to do more than talk—we have to take action."

"My heart breaks for Sandra Bland and her family," O'Malley said. "This is a horrible loss of life that demands a full, thorough and independent investigation of the traffic stop, the arrest and Ms. Bland's tragic death in custody."

"This video of the arrest of Sandra Bland shows totally outrageous police behavior," Sanders stated on Wednesday. "No one should be yanked from her car, thrown to the ground, assaulted and arrested for a minor traffic stop. The result is that three days later she is dead in her jail cell. This video highlights once again why we need real police reform. People should not die for a minor traffic infraction. This type of police abuse has become an all-too-common occurrence for people of color and it must stop."

[bravenak]

180. Words are wind.

[whatchamacallit]

191. Wait

So much of the controversy has been about words. Which words indicate you get it, which indicate you don't... So many demands about saying which lives matter, and repeating the names of victims... Now that folks might be getting it, "words are wind"?

[bravenak]

194. He needs to face to face and fight with us for our lives.

And I'm doing a reread of A Feast For Crows, so that phrase popped into my head. Blame Brienne of Tarth. Not me. I'm innocent.

He's a organizer, yeah? He can show them how to be effective and add himself to the movement. Marched with Dr King? I was born in 81. I wanna see him out there in from t- shirt on eating a churro and spreading the word. Tis is the most important cause of our time in America. 1/3 in jail or prison and our kids dying in the street. Telling us about free college for dead kids is like telling me about snow in the desert.

[whatchamacallit]

196. Just him though, right bravenak?

Cuz no one has failed those dead kids like Bernie has.

[bravenak]

198. I don't give a crap about the other two.

I try to, but I just don't. Don't like Hill and O'Malley is handsome. Not my style. I only give advice if I care about that candidate. You'll never see me tell the other to what to do to win. Don't want em.

[whatchamacallit]

200. Fair enough

I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, and pushing on your preferred candidate to do the right things is valid... as long as it doesn't become goalpost chasing.

[bravenak]

203. I have a goal and it has been stated. I want to live. No prison, no suicide by cop off camera.

This is a problem. The biggest problem of our time. Whoever takes it the most seriously has me at his or her back fighting for them. That is what we are waiting for. Hillary can lose us like a dollar at a carnival. Poof!! All her pat statements, so lukewarm, so transparent. O'Malley seems to care but he's missing something that excites. Bernie is grumpy enough that if he gets a hold on to an issue, he won't let go. Like a dog with a bone. I hope he hold a rally with black lives matter. He's already had his hazing and should be good to go now.

[whatchamacallit]

209. Great answer

I support your goal. And will tell you honestly, if one of the other candidates proves more responsive to that goal than Bernie, I will shift my support in their favor.

[bravenak]

214. Thank you. I will to.

I still think this challenge was MADE for a guy like him.

[whatchamacallit]

217. I think you may be right

I hope he gets the opportunity to rise to the challenge.

[Prism]

187. Oh, that's just stage one

And it's almost kind of nice, to be courted for a few months every four years.

The real fun begins once people in your own party tell you what you should be willing to accept.

And then your jaw unhinges from the concussive force of the rage shout that mushroom clouds out of your throat.

This is just the beginning. I'm waiting until after the nomination when marginalized groups enter that magical stage of being told to, "Shut up and don't ruin this for us! Do you want to elect a Republican?!"

That'll be good times.

[bravenak]

190. Hell, that part is happening right now!!!

One side threatens us with hillary. Her side (only a few of them though) threatens us with republicans, and I just look like, I cannot believe muthafuckas are falling for this shit. Again!!
Seems like people think we owe the party or the politicians more than they owe us. I do not agree. We can fire they ass.

[Prism]

195. Always the same binary battle every single election

No matter the candidate or party, there are always two forces at work - those who venerate the politician as personality and those who see politicians as servants.

I can guess which side of that equation you and I are on.

[bravenak]

197. I think I'm on my own side this time.

They be trippin. I don't want to hire a guy to go cut our jobs and Social Security! Fuck that!
I want us to put they ass on notice that this won't be an easy ride this here year. Maybe we can like, make them work for us and stuff.

[randys1]

202. I am going to be consistent, JANESSA please, it is not RAT it is DEMOCRATIC

There is a history of black communities voting Democrat IC

(yes, she got it right later in that paragraph) and no, she is BY FAR not the only one making this mistake...




Other than that, great article.



(I have to be consistent on my little agenda here so that is what I am doing)


I especially liked this

Today black communities continue to be betrayed by both sides of the aisle in this toxic political system, which prioritizes exuberant campaign spending over protecting human rights. Both Ferguson and Baltimore saw uprisings in the face of police terror in the last year. And each city watched Democratic city and state politicians lead violent militarized occupation in response to protests, including the National Guard, tear gas, rubber bullets and riot police. The fact is that neither political party is “for black people,” but white liberal and moderate voters continually impose upon black communities the candidates they feel are most sympathetic to black experiences.

[bravenak]

208. Lol! Randy... Democratic. I saw that too. She was mad, I believe, and did it on purpose.

I do shit like that.
That paragraph was so perfectly perfect.

[randys1]

212. Never thought of that, in that case, for the FIRST time LOL I am OK with it LOL

[ismnotwasm]

253. Recommend a million

And more..

[Ken Burch]

255. Very valid points about white Democratic(and Republican) disinterest in the needs of PoC voters

The most interesting point in this is that she seems to be moving towards calling for black support for a third-party candidate. If I were Jill Stein, I'd pay very close attention to this.

It's good that she's not singling out any particular candidate for attack here.

[bravenak]

256. I agree.

The complaints are valid and she was fair about distributing her criticisms. I hope all interested candidates are paying attention.

[delrem]

265. This is pure incitement. Plain and simple.

[bravenak]

266. Stop choosing to get offended.

Here, read this: http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/07/guest-post-a-perspective-of-the-netroots-nation-blacklivesmatter-protest-from-a-person-of-color.html

[delrem]

268. I've been called worse than the words that you've been throwing out.

I'm not offended.

[bravenak]

269. Did you read it? Read it.

[delrem]

270. How will change the fact that your OP has been pure incitement?

[bravenak]

271. Black people hear horrible shit about themselves everyday.

If you want to play victim, fine. But black people are not your oppressors, nor am I if I choose to post and express my point of view, even if it makes you uncomfortable.
It is not my job as a black person to keep this shit inside so as not not upset your white privilege. Think about that. You guys post shit that makes my blood boil, shit about my president, but I do not bitch and moan and say it is incitement just because I feel he is being targeted because of his race. You need to chill out, and not try to make me comfort you because I choose to post about issues important to me. It is not my job to make white people feel better about racism.

[delrem]

272. I'm not "playing victim".

I'm not victim of anything that I'd want to tell *you* about.

[bravenak]

273. You are. You are acting like my posting habits are 'incitement'. I do not appreciate it.

I have never once bashed you for your postings or your posting habits or style, and I have no reason why you want to do it to me. And you seem angry and kinda like you feel 'victimized' by my 'incitement'. I have gotten hundreds of pissed off messages from white liberals upset about me speaking my mind because their candidate had a bad day.

What do you want from me? Me to stop posting? To shut up? Talk about things you want to talk about? Or to just complaint that i'm 'divisive' or 'inciting' for posting about Black issues?

[delrem]

274. So?

i didn't expect you to "appreciate it".

Look at what you've already said about me.

I don't care about that. I keep on keeping on, bravenak, and have been long before this little conversation.

[bravenak]

275. So. I'm tired of the bitter recriminations. Peace. Do. Not. Care. Right. Now.

[delrem]

276. Well, thanks for all your heartfelt insight into my character.

It make me feel nice and peaceful.

[bravenak]

277. I never mentioned your character, just your behavior. I do not presume to know yr character.

[delrem]

280. Well, back atcha.

[Cha]

281. Thank you so much for this link, brave.. it's so poignantly compelling~ couple of snips..

snip//

Sandra Bland had just gotten her dream job, she had a college education, and she was the member of a prestigious sorority. But none of that was enough to save her life. I was disappointed that Sanders did not understand that income inequality is the symptom, but racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia are the disease, and when those intersect, the consequences can be fatal. If you aren’t prepared to address that, you aren’t prepared to be President of the United States.

Though I was disappointed in the candidates, I was even more disappointed in the people in the room. As I looked around, I saw progressive “allies” look annoyed, uncomfortable, and inconvenienced. As the protest was ending, I noticed one Black woman take off her Bernie Sanders button and leave her sign on the table.

snip//

I tried to engage with many people, until one guy cornered me at the Netroots Nation after-party, put his hands on my shoulders, and told me that the protestors had no class and that Bernie Sanders deserves our respect for 50 years of fighting for civil rights. I stopped engaging at that point. I no longer felt safe in a progressive space.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/07/guest-post-a-perspective-of-the-netroots-nation-blacklivesmatter-protest-from-a-person-of-color.html

Wow.. and there it is.. it's unfathomable to me.

I just ran across this on The Obama Diary..


Donna NoShock ?@NoShock
#BlackLivesMatter #SayHerName #SandraBland
6:42 AM - 22 Jul 2015
40 40 Retweets 15 15 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/07/22/profit-and-loss-why-blacklivesmatter-matters/

[bravenak]

282. I found that so troubling.

To feel fear amongst you allies for your own personal safety? I am just too angry about that. But apparently, me posting about it is inciteful and hurtings somebody who I used respect's feelings. I feel bad having to put anyone on ignore, but I just did. Like a minute ago. I feel better.

This article really shows how ugly allies can be once they feel you step,out of line. Scary.

[Cha]

284. This the most stunning account yet of what went down @ NRN, from Sommer Foster..

To be in Fear from so-called "progressives" because you are literally fighting for Black Lives is insane.

I'm so ashamed of these callous, cold-hearted, wrong headed, "progressives".

[bravenak]

285. I have one from Imani Gandy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251470024#post31

I can tell they did not read the whole thing. If you click the links in her article, you see DU, literally.

[Cha]

287. Oh, they did Not want to hear from @theangryblacklady! too close to home. She

was much kinder to Bernie than his supporters who were harassing her..

Hard truths like that are a crap shoot with juries.. and they're kinda stacked against ya.

Classic! I love how she writes.. I use to go to her blog all the time in the early Pres Obama years..

"For the past several days, Sanders supporters have been calling Black people on Twitter “stupid” or “retarded.” Or they’re suggesting that Roderick Morrow—who created the #BernieSoBlack hashtag to mock the very Sanders supporters who are seemingly trolling Twitter for the sole purpose of attacking any Black person who doesn’t have a neck tattoo that reads “Feel the Bern”—is a Koch-paid troll or a shill for Clinton."

http://rhrealitycheck.org/ablc/2015/07/22/youre-white-marched-dr-king/

They want to try and smear the creator of berniesoblack as a right wing/Koch/Clinton shill troll?

Yeah, that won't end well.. for them. They'll get what they deserves for this shite.

Mahalo for the link, brave.. sorry about your Hide.. it was bad.

[bravenak]

289. I figure they are trying to run my black ass out of here.

Oh, well. Too bad for them if they get their wish. It will make DU just that much more boring without me.

Funny, we're all talking about how it seems like they are TRYING with all of their might to DRIVE black folks home to the arms of Uncle Bill and Auntie Hillary. That's what they called them to me.

I guess when shit gets rough, you realize who your family is.

But, really, they did NOT NOT NOT want to hear the Angry BLACK Lady!
She is so fierce and never bullshits or minces words.

Did you notice how there was a DU op right there in her links? Now DU is black twitter famous, lol, and not in a GOOD way.

I remember saying, a few days ago, that they were gonna mess around and have Hillary cha cha slide right into the white house. I stand by my prediction.

[Cha]

291. Oh yeah.. they want to drive out of here anyone who upsets their sensibilities and

you've been up to so much of that lately!

"Bernie Sanders marched with Dr. King in the 1960s, but in 2015, he marched off stage after mumbling something about fighting for civil rights for 50 years, and ignored the Black women who were standing right in front of him, asking him to speak to their concerns."


I finally found the DU one.. "Koch paid troll".. does DU proud, eh?! If it weren't so pathetically tragic it would be hilarious.

Your prediction is sound, brave.

[bravenak]

292. I was embarassed for DU.

Finnaly black people know what it is. And they think it's filled with nasty people who despise them.
I don't know how anyone here can be proud of what was dished out to all of these wonderful activists and bloggers and just regular black people tweeting a joke.
I feel sick about it. It's at the point where my anger is dead but i just feel shame. Sad.

[Cha]

295. I can't imagine the owners of this site being proud of that ignorant OP representing DU,

as an example of harassing Black People, because.. Bernie. the one who must not be questioned.

I can't imagine Bernie being proud, either.

[bravenak]

296. I hope they are not pleased. I would not let it stand for too long.

Can't have an atmosphere that scares black people away when we are the most loyal democrats. It is hurtful.

[Cha]

297. It's so hurtful that it's surreal that this is even happening. i don't know if I edited

fast enough for you to see.. but, I added one more sentence to my previous post.

The Black Community are the Most Loyal Dems.. I love them for it.. who wouldn't appreciate that?! Oh WAIT.

In 2012 Black Folks stood in those long lines in Florida and Georgia.. I remember the pics, and helped President Obama get re-elected. And, in 2008 they were there too.. for us.. our Country. Saved it twice from twits.

That's why the gop is trying to take away their voting rights again.. anyway they can. And, some Bernie backers are throwing them away.

[bravenak]

298. I see it now. Yeah, he would probably be grumpy if he knew what they were doing in his name.

I keep waiting for the wake up moment where they all collectively realize that this was a big mistake and it was their fault, not ours. I keep looking through my twitter periodically to see if it has stopped yet, but no. I think it may be a thing that just happens now, trolling black people for Bernie. How horrible. I guess if he loses it will just get worse for a while when they blame black people for the loss. Tell us how he was our last chance and the obly one who cared and tell us to go vote for Republicans some more, like they own the party and we're just the help. I guess this is what this is. I just realized that they see us as the Help. Not equals.

[Cha]

299. IOW.. the worst campaign strategy EVER! I think if Bernie had one clue this was happening in

his name he would send out a national SOS.. to cease and desist immediately if not sooner!

Pretty sure he wants to win.

They act like they own everything but the more they bully and harass the harder the fall.

Still goin' on, huh? Disgraceful. consider the source. Their arrogance is what will do them in.. as in all cases of over-inflated egos. They're digging their own political hole.

I commend the Bernie supporters on DU who stand behind #BlackLivesMatter.. they're the ones who are helping Sen Sanders.

[bravenak]

300. I commend them too. They're his only hope at this point.

I actually love quite a few of them to pieces somI know this is tough but it is not their fault that the jerks get all the attention and do the most talking.
I hope they (the persistent Standers) see the light very soon and leave those people on twitter and facebook alone.

[Man from Pickens]

278. We won't tell you how to vote

you are free to choose any of the diverse selection of white people the Democratic Party primary ballot will offer you

[bravenak]

279. Lol!

[TheKentuckian]

293. Yes! What we need is segregation of candidate advocacy or something. Really?

What a bizarre position! Doesn't sound like logical thought process for a message board plus it is hypocritical nonsense since it only applies to whites disagreed with while no such concern is had for blacks that disagree, I've had plenty of know nothing snarky fucks not only tell me who to vote for but who the fuck I am.

Conservatives black, white, gay, straight, male, female, rich, poor (dummies) can stop trying to tell me how to vote and can start trying to win it rather than trying to herd me using the fear of racist radical regressive bigots.

[bravenak]

294. I think peope can make their own decisions and try to inform themselves. I prefer it myself.

[TheKentuckian]

312. I've knocked on too many door, made too many phone calls, and talked to too many people

to believe that is more the exception than the rule. Easily most people have no clear idea what is going on politically even in the broad strokes.

Grimes was and is our sitting Secretary of State and it may have been half or better that didn't know who the fuck she is much less her positions. Then walking two weeks later she is known as that lady who won't say she voted for Obama or not, goodbye over vote from black areas, goodbye staunch partisan Democrats, and goodfuckingbye for sure from the "I can't abide a weasel" Democratic leaner and no black folks aren't super attuned and any of that either. The only thing that can be really said is that when we do vote it is heavily Democratic but there is plenty of not voting among the eligible, and plenty of no insight or opinion on most candidates.

I suspect like me you know and are related to more than the typical level of engaged people but neither math nor observation support it being the general situation even among the minority that actual vote at all.

Make their own decisions? Of course people have free will and most aren't going to be run by remote control but inform themselves in this media environment, pace of life, and misinformation? It doesn't seem like a valid political theory to me, if it were true we wouldn't have a quarter of the mess we have now. People aren't omnipotent and most are a mix of poorly and completely misinformed. Many more feel about politics like I do math and aren't doing any more research than I am doing trig problems.

Also, a situational issue of being on a political discussion board and expecting people to not advocate for candidates is contrary to general human nature like going to a football board and not wanting coaches and players discussed.

Then it is an idea which obviously works to the advantage of the deepest pockets and media and establishment favorites.

Lack of direct advocacy doesn't work for ideas or policy and I see no reason to think it will work for picking officials either.

It is an odd thing to resent in general, I'm thinking not many societies ever have functioned in such a way even hunter/gatherer groups at least where any voting or anything like it was happening and it seems strange thing on a political board, especially in the primaries forum to actually be angry and/or resentful it is happening.

A politics board where people don't discuss politicians during election season on the primary forum? Seems kind of like going to a steakhouse and becoming livid that they sell beef. I just don't see how that is a reasonable expectation.

Righteous anger? Fuck yeah, but that people are advocating their candidate and going to the record, totally normal? Don't be surprised that it doesn't get processed, it is at least out of the box so it might be hard to catch up to where you are.

[mountain grammy]

311. That is a good article.

At long last, it's time for white Americans to shut up and actually listen to what black Americans are saying. It's also time for white Americans to acknowledge history and address reparations, something that should have happened long ago.
Sandra Bland was an activist and now, we'll never get to hear what she had to say. The nine Americans murdered in Charleston were leaders in their communities, voices now silent. Countless voices have been silenced throughout our history all because black lives haven't mattered.

Chris Rock said that saying black people have made progress is saying they Deserved what happened to them in the past. He also said Obama's election wasn't black progress it was white progress. He's got that right.

[m-lekktor]

337. I hear you, Bravenak!

[craigmatic]

338. Good article I agree. If you look at the response to the BLM interruption thread you see some of

what the article talks about.

[treestar]

339. that piece says the same thing the progressives say

Like neither Bernie or Hillary are earning our vote - the system is so bad it has to be destroyed, none of the parties deserve our vote. And yet that vote is not supposed to be monolithic. (though it kind of is, in that black people as a whole reliably do not vote Republican - a very low percentage does, or does not vote Dem.)

Oddly reminiscent of the very same progressives - both parties are alike and so bad that we should stay home and withhold our vote to punish them. But then the system goes on. And it's still bad. Or worse than it would have been with more Dems in power.

Some broad generalizations that white liberals want to retain their privilege. Admitting they don't want to be racist and even understanding white privilege but trying to preserve it. Who says? The writer allows herself to make generalizations about how people think based on their skin color while at the same time claiming that no one should do that.