Would America elect a socialist to be President ?

[PosterChild]

Um, no. Why do you ask?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/17/could-a-socialist-actually-be-elected-president/

[beam me up scottie]

1. Good thing there's no socialist running for the job.

Nice try but we already heard this talking point a brazillion times.

Keep up.

[PosterChild]

2. Um huh, right...

...good luck with that.

[HappyPlace]

4. No worries, good buddy. We got this.

[PosterChild]

7. Hum,.. cognitive dissonance ? nt

[daleanime]

17. Hum....self diagnosis?

[HappyPlace]

24. Oh snap!

[beam me up scottie]

19. Nice!

The intercept will be every bit as awesome as it was in 2008!

Thanks!

[PosterChild]

25. Read the wapo article about ...

... the impotance of electability an how it's importance increases as the process proceeds .

[beam me up scottie]

42. Thank you for your concern.

[Le Taz Hot]

60. Didn't you know?

Perception only counts with the word "socialism" but not with the word "emails." Ya gotta keep up with these things, HP.

[brooklynite]

101. Last time I checked, they allow a Republican to run as well...

[HappyPlace]

102. He heh, yes they sure did!

[Live and Learn]

69. Most people seem to understand that. I am surprised you don't. nt

[NorthCarolina]

86. So, "labels" trump "policy" for you?

If Bernie is a socialist, then fuck it, I guess I'm a socialist too. I could care less if he called himself a pig-fucker....he'd still have my vote. I vote policy and record over silly "labels".

[redwitch]

91. Enough with the trump already!

[PosterChild]

93. Lables are important to people . ..

.... because they are predictive of direction, intent and future policy decisions. Current policy positions on specific issues are important but incomplete. It is reasonable and entirely rational to judge a candidate on her idelogical tendencies, which are indicated by idelogical labels.

In fact, it would be unreasonable to ignore them. Especially pig-fucker.

[PosterChild]

122. Labels that are applied by others . ..

.... are less important than labels applied to one's self. Bernie is a self professed socialist , and presumably he means to say something meaningful about himself to others by so doing. That's why the label is important.

Setting that aside, labels applied to others, even though they may be smears, are important also. They are assertions about the intentions and future direction a candidate might take. That is a legitimate concern, perhaps more of a concern than specific policy positions on current issues. Labels are the linguistic vehicle we use to discuss these concerns.

[PosterChild]

125. In the case of sanders . ...

.. no one is demeaning him by placing a label upon him. He calls himself a socialist. It is entirely proper to refer to bernie as a socialist, since that is how he characterizes himself.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. It was also assumed America wouldn't elect a black guy.

[PosterChild]

6. Not true . ..

... "black" now polls at 92 - don't known what it was back 8 years ago, but I bet it was better than the "socialist " category .

[Armstead]

5. Depends on the socialist

And the GOP portray President Obama and most otehr Dems as socialists anyway

[PosterChild]

9. Don't think so...

.... the whole idea of idelogical labels is that it DOESN'T depend on their individual .

[Armstead]

15. Did you read what I said?

The GOP applies that ideological label on all individuals who happen to be Democrats.

Doesn't scare away people in droves, Only those who would not vote for a Dem anyway.

[PosterChild]

30. There us a difference . ..

....between a slur and a label. In this case it is the candidate who is calling him self a socialist . It will be taken serriously.

[DJ13]

56. The GOP routinely calls Hillary a socialist

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/222433/hillary-clinton-socialist-still-deroy-murdock

http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/hillary-clinton-the-great-socialist-warmonger/5962

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2015/04/hillary-clinton-crony-socialist-for-president/

http://newsl.org/2015/07/wealth-for-all-hillary-the-socialist-clinton-proposes-tax-cuts-for-profit-sharing/

[PosterChild]

95. Sure, but bernie...

....calls himself a socialist. People understand that the gop is sluring dems and discount it. They won't discount it when the candidate brags about it himself.

[Ed Suspicious]

67. Obama is the most frightful socialist of all time. He's still in office.

[ericson00]

10. but it didn't and doesn't stick

and doesn't for good reason: not only does Obama not actually practice socialism, but he doesn't use the kind of Occupy rhetoric Bernie uses, he is not for gutting welfare reform, helped out our financial institutions, and doesn't call himself a socialist, nor did he. In 2008 it didn't stick not only because of most of the reasons I mentioned, but Wall Street didn't mind him.

[Armstead]

12. The way you describe Presient Obama he sounds like a conservative

[ericson00]

14. was my statement inaccurate?

I don't think so. Doesn't mean he was a conservative. A conservative thinks fetuses are alive and taxes on the rich should be lower to trickle down. Obama didn't.

[Armstead]

18. Conservative means a lot more than that

[Ed Suspicious]

70. Spoken like a true conservadem.

[PosterChild]

16. RE and doesn't call himself a socialist

No worries well have a candidate who does. The oposition won't even have to try,

[JDPriestly]

28. What do you mean when you use the word "socialist"?

What does that word mean to you?

And have you heard any of Bernie's speeches?

[PosterChild]

43. What does the words mean...

...to them voting public ? My guessing is, "Venezuela". Or "North Korea".

In any case, you can run for presentation , or you can run to teach them true meaning if socialism . But you can't do both.

[JDPriestly]

51. Bernie thinks it means Sweden or Norway. I think it means Germany or Austria or France.

Bernie makes very clear the ISSUES he is running on. Free college education (post-secondary state schools), single payer health care as in Western European countries (that I lived in), government investment in safer and better infrastructure, breaking up the too big to fail banks, a strong defense, but an audit of the military expenditures, etc. You can listen to his speeches and visit FeeltheBern.com to read about all his proposals.

I hope you do.

He is not pointing to Venezuela or North Korea.

When Americans hear what Bernie has to say, they agree with him.

[PosterChild]

88. Great! We will have a gop candidate ...

... who says Make America Great, and a Dem who says Make America France. Game over.

[JDPriestly]

97. Bernie is simply the smartest guy in the room.

No matter the label he carries or that the media attaches to him.

See this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251555615

That links you to an article discussing Bernie's uncanny ability to foresee disasters before they occur.

The must-read article on his track record of prescience:

http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/1/post/2015/06/bernard-bernie-sanders-the-political-foresight-champion.html

Bernie warning about entering into the Iraq War.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/video/flashback-rep-bernie-sanders-opposes-iraq-war

Proven right.

Bernie warning about the gambling on Wall Street and the crisis it would and did lead to:

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4537613/bernie-sanders-predicts-wall-st-collapse

Note that this c-span video is dated 1998!

A couple of times in a century, we get the opportunity to elect a true leader, one who has the judgment and wisdom to excite us with new vision and guide us with wise caution. Bernie is that opportunity.

When Abraham Lincoln was elected president, the country was divided. As I understand it, although he did not favor slavery, he never intended to force slave states to abolish it. The argument was about the ability of slaveholders to pursue and capture slaves in the North. That is my understanding.

But the remarkable thing about Lincoln was that he had the moral courage and the intuition and the foresight to see that protecting the Union was our foremost priority and that slavery as an institution was too great a danger to our Union and to the rights of man and of the slaves to tolerate.

He was a leader, a wise man, a courageous man.

But to much of the country, his ideas were horrifying. To be an abolitionist was in the South akin to being a Communist in the US.

Bernie is not a Communist. He is a Democratic Socialist. There is a huge difference. Western Europe even when conservatives are in charge as in Germany, still provide free college tuition and single-payer healthcare to their people. They do not entangle their military in crazy adventures without thinking about how they will govern the countries after they have ventured into them.

Sanders is that kind of cautious Democratic Socialist. A lot of Americans will like his ideas.

He is 73 years old, an age at which even Jeb Bush thinks he is entitled to retire and enjoy his life. But he is willing to go on and serve his country and the American people. He has great wisdom, years of experience and a powerful bunch of courage and energy, and I sure do hope for the sake of our country, that we elect him in 2016.

He is the first and only presidential candidate who has inspired me to this degree in my life, and I myself am 72. I have never seen a candidate of the quality of Bernie Sanders.

We will be so lucky if we can elect him.

He is fiscally somewhat conservative in my view. He has served on the Budget Committee. He may be the ranking member. He said in his speech to the DLC that one of his first goals will be to order an audit of the military.

If you have ever talked with someone who handled military contracts or did military work, you will understand why that is a good idea. The process encourages spendthrift use of tax money. It is very likely that we can have the same or a better defense than we now have for less money. Bernie is not a spendthrift foolish person.

I think that electing him is the chance of the century for America.

[PosterChild]

112. Bernie may be the smartest man* in the room...

....but he sure made a bone-headed move by adopting and keeping the socialist label.

* With reference to "man", you left your self open to quite a few "witty retorts". Just saying

[JDPriestly]

117. I don't mind witty retorts. Most DUers know I am a woman.

One of my pet peeves with the English language is our failure to use terms, maybe even to have modern terms that are gender neutral.

Man, which is related to the word "mankind" and is similar to the word "Mann" in German which IS gender neutral. I could have used the word "person," but it seemed too unspecific, too general and impersonal to express my point.

I enjoy discussion and civil argument, so it is rather difficult to get me riled. So if someone wants to make a witty retort, I will probably laugh along.

Hey. No problem.

[PosterChild]

121. +100 ! (Nm)

[OnionPatch]

99. I know a whole lot of young people

who would love America to be more like France or other countries in Europe. It may not be enough for this election but the old zenophobes are dying off.

[onecaliberal]

8. Because electing people owned by corporations has worked out so well for us.

[PosterChild]

11. No, because ..

... the American people don't like socialism. For goods reason.

[onecaliberal]

13. I guess you should stop using the socialist roads

Power grid. Basically all public infrastructure. I'm never going to agree with you. Ta ta...

[PosterChild]

20. Yes, the roads...

Last edited Sat Aug 29, 2015, 12:01 AM - Edit history (3)

....we can't forget the roads!

Heck, the Roman Empire was socialist !! What with the roads and aqueducts they basically invented socialism !!

[JDPriestly]

131. And schools, and various agencies that keep our water and food and medications safe.

And then there are agricultural subsidies and flood insurance and public transportation. Hey, the railroads that were built across the country on land granted by the federal government. Then there are the dams and the parks, and the list goes on and on.

When we citizens work together to improve our country and help provide for each other's needs, it's a good thing.

The things we do as individuals are also good, like starting families, working, starting and running businesses, organizing clubs, churches, charities. They are all good.

It isn't either or. It is a matter of the best way to organize a particular part of our lives at a particular time.

You need not fear. The Constitution protects our rights to private property and requires that the government pay just compensation if it takes property that belongs to us.

We have more to fear form the civil forfeiture laws and incursions on our civil rights, many of which are condoned by the courts or even passed into law by our legislatures than we do from the proposals that Bernie Sanders is recommending.

Socialism covers a lot of territory, and it is probably impossible to have government without having some very popular, beloved programs that could be defined as socialist.

It's really not an important issue.

[PosterChild]

137. You are right, We have nothing to fear. ....

.,,, other than, perhaps, a gop president.

[JDPriestly]

138. Wbetber that happens or no depends on whether droves of Democrats stay home as they did

in 2014 in races with Blue Dog and other conservative Democrats or whether we not only get Democrats to the polls but add new votes to the numbers that support Democrats.

When I go to Bernie meetings, I see new faces, people who have never been active in politics, maybe not even voted, as well as a few who have worked on a campaign before.

Bernie is attracting new voters. I'm not even sure that the polls at this time are reflecting these potential voters who have previously shunned the Democratic Party.

If I recall, the candidates in 2014 who won, who excited voters enough to get out and vote were considered more to the left in great part. Al Franken kept his Senate seat. Others who strongly stand for traditional FDR policies, did better than those of the right, those who were too ready to compromise Democratic ideas with the Republican ones.

That can be interpreted two ways -- either that the electorate really leaned to the right or that the candidates on the "left" inspired voters to get to the polls because they felt that their vote could make a difference in Congress and their own lives.

I think the explanation is the latter. And when I meet with other Bernie supporters, I get the sense that they have decided that Bernie's ideas will improve their lives.

It's about time we catch up with other parts of the world on issues like family leave and universal health insurance and debtless post-secondary education, etc.

We are so far behind other countries.

Call is socialism. Call it common sense. What is in a name?

This is the age of computers. Computers do jobs we used to do. They do them for us, all of us. Why shouldn't we all benefit from the time saved, the money earned, when computers work instead of us?

Or should those who "own" the computers earn all the wages from these senseless automatons? It's a real question?

Because conservatives cannot on the one hand require women to birth as many babies as possible and on the other, replace the work the babies might one day do with machinery that costs very little to maintain and thereby force the moms and babies to live on less than it takes to just have a roof over their heads, food on their plates and the basic necessities of life. That is not going to work very long.

An ever growing human population, less work, and all the profits going to a relatively small group of people? Meanwhile those who earn the least are taxed at one of the highest rates when you consider total income?

That equation just does not work. And that is what conservatives, and to a lesser degree even Hillary are offering us.

Do you think the word "socialism" is really appropriate when you are talking about the world we have today in which corporations operate on the international level while working people are constrained to try to make a living in the confines of a nation?

I think the application of socialism as a theory traditionally was thought of as "nationalizing" production. That was the old idea. That is virtually impossible today because production is multi-national. The wheel is made in Mexico, the chassis in South Korea, the gears someplace else. How would anyone nationalize that production even if they wanted to.

Socialism today in my definition (since the traditional one would never work in today's economy) means sharing wealth so through taxation and the funding of government programs benefits everyone, keeps people alive, prepares them to contribute to society. That's what it means to me. And that is how it works in European and some other countries.

I might improve my definition in the future because I am thinking of it as I write it, but I do not think that anyone who uses the word socialism is thinking of the socialism of Marx or Lenin. The modern economy is not compatible with any such idea, and people have evolved beyond the limitations of communication and understanding of the world of the times those thinkers lived in.

[FrodosPet]

80. The roads that were mostly built by private companies, right?

The ones paid for by taxing the fuel sold at privately owned gas stations, used mostly for the vehicles of privately owned companies of all types (as well as by the individuals receiving profits, paychecks, or pensions from these companies)?

[Armstead]

21. Oh good Christ...That's a right wing talking point if ever I heard one

Ooooooo, don't trust those Scary Socialists.....oooooooo, they're going to steal out babies oooooo

That's Red Scare crap from the 50's. Most people, except hard core conservatives, are more receptive to a mild socialist -- actually an FDR Liberal -- like Sanders once they hear him speak. The rest are unwinnable anyway.

The public would never support Gay Marriage either.

[onecaliberal]

27. I'm going to stop feeding it.

[Armstead]

31. I think you're rght. I'll just cross the bridge.

[onecaliberal]

32. Ditto.

[arcane1]

37. Stale, reheated John Bircher paranoia, right here on DU.

I'm actually very encouraged to see it here. It means his campaign is having an impact

[PosterChild]

48. No, simply a concern for the electability . ..

.... of tge democratic candidate. What us paranoid about that? Let alone "bircher".

[PosterChild]

33. Thus us an over the top slur...

Being a Hillary supporter and pointing out electability issues does not make one a fascist . This is an over the top slur.

[PowerToThePeople]

38. Nothing over the top

If you support the current status quo, you support fascism.

Sanders is against the status quo and therefore against fascism. He has my vote.

[PosterChild]

45. LOL. A real fail ( nt)

[Cha]

77. It's not true.. and, says everything about you and absolutely nothing about your target.

[George II]

87. Turns out you were wrong. I seriously wonder if you know what "fascism" is.

[arcane1]

40. That's why I call it corporatist.

[hrmjustin]

53. Results.

On Fri Aug 28, 2015, 11:28 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Posterchild for fascism. n/t
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=554863

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Being a Hillary supporter and pointing out electability issues does not make one a fascist . This is an over the top slur.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 28, 2015, 11:42 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Please make your point another way than calling another poster a poster child for fascism.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Slur.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Cha]

78. Ha! Good.. throwing around that word "fascism" as if he knew what it meant. Just bc BS is

a "Socialist".. does not mean everyone else is a fascist.

[George II]

89. It's only August 2015 - what will the rhetoric be early next year? They'll be throwing around...

...."fascism", "communism", and every other "ism" they can come up with in a few months.

[Cha]

109. And, all in BS's name.. doesn't do their candidate any favors.

[PowerToThePeople]

22. And here I thought Joseph McCarthy was dead

[JDPriestly]

26. If you ask peple in the abstract whether they willl vote for a socialist, they will say no.

If they listen to Bernie and you ask them whether they want what he wants, they will say yes.

Socialism is a word. It's like Christianity. It means different things to different people.

Bernie's platform which he states in every speech is what Americans want.

That's what matters, not what label he uses for himself.

[PosterChild]

34. Actually , the label matters . .

.... more than you think. In fact it will ensure that most people will not even bother to understand his platform. The label tells them enough.

[JDPriestly]

54. We shall see. I'm volunteering for Bernie.

A lot of professional people are. The middle class is in decline, and Bernie is the only one who is really responding to that concern or is believable when he talks about that problem.

CItizens United and the overbearing role of big money and corporations in the political process is a greater concern to Americans today, especially young Americans, than socialism.

China is a Communist country with a Communist government, but we trade with it all the time, and in spite of the Communist label, our billionaires invest a lot of their money and make a lot of their products there.

I don't think the socialist label is nearly the problem for Bernie that you would think that the Communist label and reality is for China.

[MohRokTah]

29. Nope

Which is why nominating Sanders is political suicide for the party.

[PosterChild]

35. +100 ! (Nm)

[arcane1]

36. Then you need not waste one more precious moment of your life mentioning him.

You don't get that time back, after all, and the outcome is the same even if you do nothing.

[PosterChild]

39. I believe..

.... in helping others to increase their understanding and in educating them. And in learning , understanding and being educated myself . So I don't consider this to be a waste of time.

[arcane1]

44. Cool story n/t

[PosterChild]

46. Not only cool,

But TRUE too.

Doesn't get any better than that.

[jfern]

41. 55% thought Obama was a socialist

[PosterChild]

47. Think if he came out . ,,

... and agreed with them.

[Garrett78]

75. We're all essentially socialists.

We'd be in a lot of trouble without socialism.

Of course, try explaining that to the ignorant masses.

[PosterChild]

83. The ignorant massess are actually right....

For instance, vegetables are all essentially vegetables, but broccoli is just not the same as avocados.

Humans are social animals and to survive and thrive we do have to cooperate and work together. As you sugest, all socio-economic systems are social in nature.

That, however, does not make them all socialist. Socialism is a distinct socioeconomic system that has characteristics and consequences different from other competing ideologies. It is entirely proper to distinguish it from the alternatives and towards judge it on it's merits in contrast to the alternatives.

[Garrett78]

90. Socialism is all around us and we'd be screwed without it.

The ignorant masses couldn't tell you what socialism is, so they sure as hell aren't in position to speak one way or the other about it.

As the Wikipedia pages reads, "Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy." Or, as the International Encyclopedia of Political Science puts it, "Socialist systems are those regimes based on the economic and political theory of socialism, which advocates public ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources."

The US isn't purely one -ism or another, but it's foolish to deny the great extent to which it is a socialist system.

[jfern]

130. Why yes

I support public schools, public roads, public sidewalks, and public parks.

There goes that argument.

[whatchamacallit]

49. Pointless shite

I'm American and I'm voting for Sanders.

[SoapBox]

50. Funny when the Bernie haters can't even get information correct...

DEMOCRATIC Socialist.

Not Socialist.

At least provide honest information.

[revmclaren]

57. Um....no...he has called himself a socialist....

5. In a speech he gave at the National Committee for Independent Political Action in New York City on June 22, 1989, reprinted in the December 1989 issue of the socialist publication Monthly Review: “In Vermont, everybody knows that I am a socialist and that many people in our movement, not all, are socialists. And as often as not — and this is an interesting point that is the honest-to-God truth — what people will say is, ‘I don’t really know what socialism is, but if you’re not a Democrat or a Republican, you’re OK with me.’ That’s true. And I think there has been too much of a reluctance on the part of progressives and radicals to use the word ‘socialism.’”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/14-things-bernie-sanders-has-said-about-socialism-120265#ixzz3kAy40T4x

Damn easy-to-use Google!!!!

[Cha]

79. "Bernie haters..".. right.. 'cause there are no "Hillary haters".. BS supporters are pure and would

not entertain such thoughts.

[PosterChild]

110. The average voter . ..

Last edited Sat Aug 29, 2015, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)

.... doesn't know or care what the difference between a "socialist" and a "democratic socialist" is. They aren't going to bother to find out and any attempt to explain it will just reinforce the message that he is a socialist.

And after reading the wiki article on "socialism" I've come to the conclusion that socialists don't know what the difference is either.

[Le Taz Hot]

52. Is a Socialist running?

[revmclaren]

58. Yes...

See my post with linky things above...

[Le Taz Hot]

59. You're new.

I'll be a good girl and leave you alone. This time.

[revmclaren]

62. Sorry, wrong again... Here since 2012

Part time poster...full time lurker.

But I'll forgive you for your mistake...this time!




But please... Discredit sanders own words....

[Le Taz Hot]

65. 2012! Oooooh!

[revmclaren]

68. I know...think of all the missed recs!!!

Was too busy in the real world ... The Obama campaign and all..

Night night...

[PatrickforO]

55. Whatever we say in arguing about what Bernie should or should not be called,

his speech to the DNC today was RIGHT ON, and the points he makes are things most Americans agree with. Bernie is elevating the dialog, and I believe he can win, which is why I'm supporting him.

[revmclaren]

61. The MSM and the repubs will eat him alive

Just for the one statement He made...HE MADE...and i found in 30 seconds of google search.

Imagine what they will find. If they have a real reason to fear him politically.

Just my opinion and his own statement forever on the Internet.

[moobu2]

63. You are so right.

They haven't even started

[PosterChild]

84. Yep /nt/

[revmclaren]

64. Well off to bed...

We 'newbies' have to get a lot of rest or our fragile little fingers may get tired...

Oh, and Hillary 2016 and all that...

[lovemydog]

66. I think so, yes.

If Sanders wins the democratic nomination I believe he will win the Presidency. When democrats enthusiastically vote in general elections we win.

Bernie's not a 'socialist' like some outdated stereotype of Boris Badinov & Natasha. He's a democratic socialist who caucuses with the democratic party. He's proposing a massive jobs program (paid for by a tax on Wall Street speculation), strengthening & expanding social security, publicly funded elections and health care for all.

He's calling for a grass roots movement to create a more participatory democracy. That's as American as apple pie.

[PosterChild]

139. "Bernie's not a 'socialist'"....

..... then he shouldn't claim to be one. But I guess it's too late now . Oh well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. I hope we find out.

[Starry Messenger]

72. I'm a Hillary supporter, but I don't think slamming socialism is really a winning tactic.

Lots of people like socialist programs and progressive policies. Maybe there will be a socialist President some day. Probably not this year though. We will be lucky if we can preserve the reforms of the Obama administration in the face of the right-wing assault.

[AOR]

73. "Preserve the reforms of the Obama administration"...

and stumping for Hillary Clinton...yeah that's a real winning leftist platform and class analysis going on in that post Starry Messenger. I'm sure Bill Foster would be proud. It's amazing how "communists" don't consider the Neoliberal policies of Clinton and Obama as part of the right-wing assault on the working class. Opportunism and identity politics abound for the new breed of liberal "communists." Lmao

[Starry Messenger]

82. I'm sure all four of you left at the Bell are going to

start the revolution any day now. If you get any more leftist, you might be able to winnow it down to two. Kisses!

[AOR]

98. So you're bashing the Bell now also... ?

very interesting considering how much time you spent there espousing leftist credentials. I'm not a member of the Bell. I followed the writers there - including you - for many years though. Asked TA and Anax and a few others for permission to use some of their writing because it's that good and presents clarity. Probably the best forum on the net for leftist analysis in my opinion. Mileage may vary I guess. Maybe next you will tell me that the Bell is a right-wing front group posing as leftists. Heard that before many times from the people in your little DU circle of "Neoliberal radicals" that you are fully on board with.

As an observer I must admit that something was never quite right about the supposed "leftist activism" in some of your posts, because it wasn't leftist in any way, shape, or form. It was reactionary, "New Left", identity politics horseshit to the core and now you reveal in full glory where you actually stand. You've lost your way and it's very sad. Own it.

[Starry Messenger]

100. Haha.

Did more for socialism in the past week than you guys will do in the next decade. Please, take your confused myopia to someone else. I have no time for bitter sectarians.

[AOR]

104. Is "be the change you wish to see"...

the new rallying cry of the CPUSA Starry Messenger...? "New-Age communism" and identity politics as a political movement built around support of the savage Neoliberal policies of Barack Obama and the Clintons will build solidarity and free the struggling workers from savage economic exploitation and oppression...who knew ? Will there be a pamphlet available for the "bitter sectarians" so we can learn how it's done ?

[Starry Messenger]

106. You guys wrote your own pamphlet years ago.

Arrogant white boy "leftists" are as common as grains of sand. Saddest thing is that you think your opinion is in any way original, or that sniping is "leftist analysis." I will leave the rest for the short-sighted barrel of straw that it is. You can have the last word if it makes you feel better.

[AOR]

108. Wow...I think I will take the last word...

Arrogant "white boy leftists"...that is unbelievable that you would bring race into this. Truly pathetic on your part as there are no more fierce defenders of racial equality than many of the writers at the Bell. That is beyond all words that you would sink to that. Who the hell goes investigating on who is white and who is black or whatever at the Bell while taking in the analysis. Do you know who is white or who is a person of color there unless it's mentioned ? How does it fucking matter ? Unbelievable that you would go there. Talk about short-sighted bullshit. Your whole political world revolves around personal identities. How fucking sad is that Starry Messenger.

[MFM008]

74. still not sold on Bernie

we shall see.

[left-of-center2012]

76. Were there similar articles 8 years ago?

Were there similar articles 8 years ago:
Would America elect an African-American to be President ?

[PosterChild]

136. Eight years ago? Heck...

....There have been socialist candidates running for president continously since before the turn of the 20th century. Well over a hundred years. And believe me, they've seen better days.

This isn't a new thing.

[beam me up scottie]

81. Socialist!:

https://m.

[George II]

92. Who asked?

[Motown_Johnny]

94. FDR x3

The GOP will call anyone who wins the nominee a "Socialist". We may as well have a nominee who knows how to own it.




http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/22/barack-obama/obama-roosevelt-socialist-communist/

^snip^

"FDR was called a socialist and a communist."
— Barack Obama on Monday, September 21st, 2009 in interview on "Late Night with David Letterman"


The president was accused of being "a socialist, not a Democrat." His plan was described as "undisguised state socialism." One critic, who controlled some powerful media outlets, suggested that communists had infiltrated the president's administration.

Those are some of the attacks that Franklin Delano Roosevelt faced in the 1930s — attacks cited recently by President Barack Obama to emphasize that he's not unique.

[LWolf]

96. Yes.

Thanks for bringing this right-wing talking point to DU. It's not like anyone else has thought to do so.

Bernie attracts a broad spectrum of voters. It's one of his strengths as a candidate. He's polling well against the republican candidates. But thanks for your concern.

[PosterChild]

113. I would rather be thanked . ...

... for my concern than for bringing up "right wing talking points ". My concern is the electability of the Democratic candidate . That's a legitimate concern , not a "right wing talking point".

[NCjack]

103. It's getting desperate. Voting for criminal capitalists hasn't served the public's interest.

[senz]

105. People are learning the difference between "socialist" & "democratic socialist."

Bet you'd like to keep 'em in the dark on that.

Sure you would.

[PosterChild]

115. You can run a serious campaign for president,....

.... or you can teach them the differences between "socialism " and "democratic socialism ". But you can't do both .

In all honesty you can't do the latter at all because no one is really interested .

[Gothmog]

107. My Democratic Party Chair was attacked as a socialist for merely attending Sanders event

http://www.democraticunderground.com/107827740

[RobertEarl]

111. FDR got elected 4 times

So, yeah.

Kinda not too smart of a question, eh, PosterChild?

You probably should hurry up and delete it before you become too famous?

[PosterChild]

114. Was FDR a...

.... self proclaimed socialist ? I think not.

[RobertEarl]

116. Well, sure. He proved it too.

What seems to go right over your head is the fact that the best things our government does are socialist things. To be in denial of that is really kinda weird. Thinkaboutit.

[PosterChild]

118. I didn't ask...

... was FDR a socialist, I asked if he was a self-proclaimed socialist. Was he?

[Chan790]

120. I don't buy it.

I feel compelled to point out that as late as early 2007, more than 80% of poll respondents said they'd never see a black president in their lifetimes and a majority (I think it was 53%) said they would not vote for a black candidate. We see similar data as recently as 2010 for women.

Trendsetters always poll worse than they perform in the ballot box down the road.

Really though, that's an interesting one...if the GOP clown car is really out-of-gas and a majority of Americans won't vote for a woman or a socialist...then who exactly is going to get elected out of a race comprised only of candidates that people won't vote for?

A lot of people that say they wouldn't vote for a woman or a socialist are going to vote for a woman or a socialist if they're the Democratic nominee...just like they voted for a black man with a foreign-sounding name.

[PosterChild]

123. Trendsetter? Or ...

.... washed up ideological dead end? Face it, socialist parties and candidates have been a round for a long, long, long time. Like, since the 19th century. This isn't anything new. If people had any inclination towards a socialist president we would have had one well before now.

By my count, FDR ran against four different socialist candidates . We know who won.

[Hydra]

126. We don't have any socialists running at the moment

But funny enough, people are asking questions...are their other religions than Capitalism? Are they more merciful?

The red scarers should be VERY nervous about that development...

[David__77]

127. I find the favorability of ratings of "socialism" to be strikingly high.

A slight majority of Democrats respondents rated "socialism" favorably.

I would be among those, while at the same time, I have no useful definition of socialism. I understand it and "humanism"to be interchangeable. I do not think that the word "socialist" or "socialism" has too much usefulness. Some people said a lot about Obama being a socialist, FDR being a socialist, etc.

I don't see an issue here - not one for me. The idea of electing all sorts of "types" appears to be problematic in some respect. I'll vote for who I support.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

128. We have socialism in the United States

[PosterChild]

133. Yes, it's right up there...

.... with "athiest" - just 4 points behind! Practically within the margin of error! With great ratings like that, maybe we should run a socialistic atheist! We'd sweep the election!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

129. What is so frightening about it?

[PosterChild]

135. Nothing is frightening, unless...

... you find the prospect of a gop president to be frightening.

[djean111]

132. Last time I looked, I am part of America, and I will vote for a Democratic Socialist.

Why do you ask?

[PosterChild]

134. And as a liberal individualist...

... I think you should do as you please! Go for it! Have fun! Take a stand! Make a difference !

Just don't expect to win the election.

[ericson00]

140. I vote for Democrats, not socialists

sorry Bernie.

[PosterChild]

141. +100 ! (Nm)