I'm even more utterly mystified

[Sheepshank]

Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2015, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

.............that 100's of people recced a post portraying a photo that accompanies a false narrative. The narrative being that this woman becomes a widow all at the hands of Hillary.

But, there are pictures of a poor grieving widow laying by the grave of her husband who lost his life when he was in Afghanistan. I will not post the picture. But I know I'll be asked for a link, it's what Bernie supporters do when they don't like what Hillary Supporter have to say. http://6abc.com/family/photo-showing-army-widow-lying-by-husbands-grave-goes-viral/742825/

Guess who voted in favor of sending troops there to Afghanistan where that wife lost her husband?...................ooops SANDERS

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/27/bernie-sanders-savior-or-seducer-of-the-anti-war-left/

And here is where Sanders greatest equivocation has come. In spite of claims of being antiwar, his “hawkish” support of Clinton’s military actions in the 1999 Kosovo War caused one of his advisers to quit. When antiwar activists occupied Sanders’ office in 1999 because of that support of Clinton’s war policies, he had them arrested.

In 2001, Sanders did not support the vote in Congress to oppose the war in Afghanistan. Congresswoman Barbara Lee stood alone! This vote was followed by his support for appropriations to support both the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2003 he supported the resolution that gave support to George W. Bush in both Iraq and in the larger war against terrorism, although Sanders has been a critic of the Iraq War.

I and most Hillary supporters would NEVER have thought to use such a narrative or picture against another candidate. But here, the cherry picked situation is not only posted to create a false bigger picture of the evils war, but 100's reccing that wanting so badly to believe the false narrative that it's only Hillary that bears the blame for war. The TRUTH is that Bernie is no innocent when it comes having blood on his hands.

100's of rec's for that narrative portraying Hillary as the sole person responsible for a war. Will the same be done here, acknowledging that Bernie killed the soldier in Afghanistan who's wife is laying at his gravesite?....unlikley, but the hypocrisy very very thick on that other OP as is the hypocrisy of the reccers.

[Skidmore]

1. Yes, that was a

despicable post and the misrepresentation it presented should be corrected. What I would expect from Republicans.

[RobertEarl]

2. The problem is...

If Hillary is made president we can pretty much expect the wars to continue. Not so if Bernie is president.

[George II]

3. Even though one war is over and the other is just about over?

[polly7]

10. Over???

Nah ......... the effects of it are blowing up all over the ME and NA. Thousands of refugees from Iraq alone who've fled to Syria are dying in horrible ways .... many are fleeing there and drowning at sea.

'Over' ........ it's comforting for you, I guess.

[George II]

12. You didn't read what I was responding to, someone who claimed that under Sanders the wars....

....will NOT continue. Give him your lecture.

[RobertEarl]

21. Yes, With Bernie we do expect the wars to end. Duh!!

Is that like a bad thing?

[George II]

27. Its not that simple, reducing it to a yes/no question is disingenuous.

[RobertEarl]

37. You make it sound so easy!

It's as if you say there is no choice. That we shall continue to kill many innocents, because bush made it so.

There was a president named Carter who would strongly disagree with the warmongers and bush, et al.

Bernie will do what he can. Hillary will keep banging the war drums. It's that simple.

[Thinkingabout]

83. Sanders has said he would take military action and use drones, to think he would be able to

Magically to end the wars must have evidence for another force. In that case the wars ends and it doesn't matter who the president may be. As much as Obama has wished for peace it did not happen, Sanders does not have the magic wand.

Bottom line Sanders is a hawk, voted more times than Clinton has for military action and voted many times to find defense programs such as the F-35 which not to live up to the cost for sure.

[George II]

88. No, it's you who makes it sound so easy. If Sanders is elected:

Isis will stop killing innocent people?
al Qaeda will stop suicide bombs and attacks on innocent people?
Bombings and shootings in Paris and other cities will come to an end?
The Syrian government will resign and turn the country over to the rebels?
Hamas and Israel will kiss and make up?
Iran will stop threatening everyone in the region?
We can dismantle all the security measures at all airports?

[Skidmore]

53. Did I say that?

I loathe war and my children and I have survived one. We literally lived in a war zone. I am realistic though and I think Sanders is clueless in the area of foreign policy.

[randys1]

54. AFter what just happened in Paris, I need to hear what both of them think needs to happen

next.

[RobertEarl]

59. A wise man would say...

We should not jump to any conclusions about Paris.

My advice: Calm down.

[randys1]

60. I need to calm down? Wow, you will say ANYTHING wont you

[RobertEarl]

63. Yes. Calm down.

[randys1]

66. Yes, you will say ANYTHING LOL

[Squinch]

126. Uh huh... so is this an admission that your narrative has fallen apart? Do you admit that if Bernie

is elected and events necessitate the legitimate use of military force, he will be as responsible as either of the other candidates and respond to that need appropriately?

Or do you wish to stick to your position that Bernie would not respond appropriately if military action becomes necessary, and that somehow the mere election of Bernie will cause Utopia to break out and all the world to suddenly join hands and sing Kumbaya?

Cause one of those scenarios is completely ridiculous.

[840high]

103. Over 100 people dead and you

say calm down.

[Squinch]

127. Robert's above all that. Because Bernie will end all wars. Because reasons.

[polly7]

13. I read what you wrote! nt.

[Sheepshank]

76. fyi, you just responded to yourself. n/t

[polly7]

81. Oh crap ........ I do that a lot.

I meant to reply to GeorgeII or (III?, I can't see his name right now).

[Sheepshank]

15. so...what's Bernie's excuse for his votes?

I hope you are not trying to justify that some wars are bigger or longer or have XXX number of casualties, therefore it's justifiable.

[polly7]

18. He voted for funding for those who were already over there for this LIE.

Would you prefer he'd agreed with 'You go to war with the army you have' evil Rummy?

[George II]

25. He also voted for the war in Afghanistan, too. For our military that war is finally winding down...

....(have to be careful how I say it now) but it is the longest war in our history. Sanders was perfectly satisfied voting for the longest war in our history.

[polly7]

31. The whole world was for going into Afghanistan for the horror of 9/11.

How can you even compare that to the vote to go into Iraq?????

Good grief.

[George II]

43. Again, you should be writing to the person I was responding to, who referenced the "wars"!

But I guess since he's supporting Sanders he gets a pass, eh?

[George II]

45. To make this easier for you:

RobertEarl (10,852 posts)

2. The problem is...

If Hillary is made president we can pretty much expect the wars to continue. Not so if Bernie is president.

RobertEarl (10,852 posts)

21. Yes, With Bernie we do expect the wars to end. Duh!!

Is that like a bad thing?

[beam me up scottie]

38. He actually voted to go after Bin Laden but against more troops in Afghanistan later.

What did Bernie say about the continued effort in Afghanistan?

In 2008, Bernie grew concerned about the situation in Afghanistan, and voted against the Defense Authorization Bill, which authorized $603 billion in military spending, including $69 billion for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. At the time, Bernie called it an “unwinnable war”

In 2009, Bernie strongly opposed a proposed 40,000 troop surge in Afghanistan, saying it would be “a very, very, very bad idea”.

After President Obama announced a timetable to withdraw troops in 2011, Bernie released this statement:

“This country has a $14.5 trillion national debt, in part owing to two wars that have not been paid for. We have been at war in Afghanistan for the last 10 years and paid a high price both in terms of casualties and national treasure. This year alone, we will spend about $100 billion on that war. In my view, it is time for the people of Afghanistan to take full responsibility for waging the war against the Taliban. While we cannot withdraw all of our troops immediately, we must bring them home as soon as possible. I appreciate the president’s announcement, but I believe that the withdrawal should occur at significantly faster speed and greater scope.”

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-afghanistan/

And this could only be used against Bernie if your candidate didn't support the war in Afghanistan as well.

But she did, in fact Hillary never met a war she didn't like.

[polly7]

41. Thanks bmus, I didn't know the specifics of his voting re Afghanistan. nt.

[beam me up scottie]

44. I supported going after him too.

And I agree with Bernie's vote to intervene in Kosovo, they always bring that up too, like it's in any way comparable to voting for the Iraq war.

[polly7]

46. I have to admit, I hate war so much that I was actually against Afghanistan ...

but I completely understand why anyone voted for it.



They are not comparable in any way, shape or form.

[beam me up scottie]

50. I understand and appreciate your stance.

You do have the right to criticize him for his vote because you're consistent.

HC supporters otoh, have no right to do the same thing. Not while they're supporting a hawk.

[polly7]

56. No, I truly do understand his vote.

Trying to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan was something that made sense then (I just really, really, really hate any and all war - it's a good thing I'm not the leader of a country!). I'm very glad he voted later to get out when it was obvious things were getting so bad for the people of Afghanistan and troops sent there.

[Sheepshank]

52. oh so you *are* for justified killing, you are the one to determine the justification? wow

[polly7]

58. I have no idea wtf you just said. nt.

[beam me up scottie]

62. I don't either.

[polly7]

65. Strangest damned thing I've seen all day. nt.

[beam me up scottie]

72. Bernie Derangement Syndrome.

It's the only explanation.

[Sheepshank]

75. here let me explain

you're ok with Bernie voting for war in Afghanistan, because another poster had you convinved that in some cases it's justified to vote for war. Bernie's noble vote was ok and justifiable becaue of Bin Laden.

You calmed down and felt very relieved that you could support Bernie's vote in Afghanistan because it was about getting Bin Laden. Even if it meant that soldiers would get killed. You justified that war so you can avoid the problem of Bernie voting for killings.

The reality is that your justification that Bernie can go to war and not garner any of the blame for dead soldiers, is false becaues Bin Laden was never caught in Afghanistan. AND when Bin Laden was caught, it wasn't because of a war in Pakistan. A strike force, independent of any war did the job just fine....the war in Afghanistan never needed. But it Bernie's vote anyway.

[polly7]

79. I know where the fuck he was caught.

I'm 'ok' with people in a country just attacked (9/11, remember?) going after the person responsible. I'm not personally ok with war - anywhere, but I have no right to judge how people in charge reach a decision they feel forces them into it.

Afghanistan at least had a reason, Iraq was based on pure lies - long anticipated and planned beforehand. If you can't see the difference, I think you're probably not interested in truth anyway.

And I didn't calm the fuck down ..... I explained my pov, don't like it - don't read it.

[Sheepshank]

99. You clearly fawned all over the post saying Bernie's vote was ok because of OBL

And was very relieved that you were able to justify that particular vote.

The hypocrisy of it all is there for everyone to see.
Iraq war widow = terrible for Hillary
Afghanistan was widow = not terrible for Bernie

[polly7]

100. That's all you've got???

Sorry ....... I don't fawn, I wasn't relieved over any fucking thing and I have absolutely no problem with what I believe or post. You seem to, though. Need a waambulance?

[sheshe2]

112. +1000

[AzDar]

90. They're counting on that...Lots of good info ^...

[Sheepshank]

70. justification for a vote for war, because war was the only way to get Bin Laden?

Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2015, 10:11 PM - Edit history (1)

oopppps, apparently that war cost lives and did no such thing. Bin laden wasn't there. In fact we know how Bin Laden was caught, and it wasn't via a war voted for by Bernie

[beam me up scottie]

74. If the deaths from the war in Afghanistan upset you so much why are you supporting Hillary?

Didn't she vote for that one too as well as the Iraq war?

justification for a vote for war, because war was the only way to get Bin Laden?

Reading is fundamental! I hope you didn't pay too much for that strawman, it's pretty pathetic.

[Sheepshank]

104. You really should skip trying to interpret people's motivations...you are really really bad at it.

The point of my op is the rampant hypocrisy of Bernie supporters when it comes to wars and voting for a war.

[beam me up scottie]

105. "You really should skip trying to interpret people's motivations"

Sheepshank (9,252 posts)

52. oh so you *are* for justified killing, you are the one to determine the justification? wow

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=804345

Don't you ever get tired of being a hypocrite?

Or embarrassing yourself?

[Sheepshank]

78. The war in Afghanistan did not kill Bin Laden, it was never needed and

...it got Bernie's vote anyway. What kind of a war monder votes for a war and funds it when there is no one to capture.

The reality is that your justification for Bernie's vote to go war (and not garner any of the blame for dead soldiers), is false becaues Bin Laden was never caught in Afghanistan. AND when Bin Laden was caught, it wasn't because of a war in Pakistan. A strike force, independent of any war did the job just fine....the war in Afghanistan never needed. But it got Bernie's vote anyway.

[beam me up scottie]

82. Nice try but you don't get to make up your own facts.

Bin Laden was in Afghanistan in 2001 and the US had every reason to believe he was still there when Bernie voted for the AUMF. Where he was finally killed has nothing to do with that vote.

What you don't like is the fact that your candidate tried to frame Saddam for harboring al Qaeda members when she pimped the Iraq war:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.

This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction."

You can't defend her war vote so you're feigning outrage about the AUMF.

Why do you support a war hawk?

[beam me up scottie]

84. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan in 2001 when Bernie voted for the AUMF.

Where he was killed has nothing to do with it.

Why are you supporting a war hawk who lied about al Qaeda members being in Iraq when she promoted that war?

[Vattel]

101. Bernie's votes were the correct ones. he doesn't need an excuse.

[AgingAmerican]

121. It's been 'just about over' for years

But it never actually ends...

[George II]

123. According to the person that I responded to (did you follow the discussion?) if Sanders is elected..

...president HE will end it.

[Skidmore]

4. If you believe that then

you are naive. Bernie will not be able to stop these wars without Congress doing some work. Bernie himself has said that he is not opposed to war.

Also, what does your assertion have to do with the despicable misrespresentation and use of that photo in the other thread?

[RobertEarl]

16. Thanks for your support

The wars are not, in any way, any of my fault. Call me naive and that just tells me you want to fight. Well, ok then, let's do this:

Hillary is a well known warmonger and Bernie is not. Bernie gets my vote and whatever else, Hillary and you get nada.

[Skidmore]

57. My, that was mature.

[Sheepshank]

6. does not negate the hypocricy of blame.

justify that post all you want.

[RobertEarl]

17. She's a well known warmonger.

The whole establishment is full of warmongers. You can have it, I'll not support them ever. Never.

[Sheepshank]

61. I hear a lot of anti Hillary pressing that meme...not buying it

no matter how many times that meme is pressed.

Sanders voted for wars and funding wars...that's not a warmonger?

I'm not interested in the arguments that press for "degrees" of war. Sanders says he would continie wars and continue using drones. I don't fucking care if you *think* it would be used to a lesser level by Sanders. Warmonger doesn't describe how many killings are made when that label is finally applied.

[passiveporcupine]

93. How long will this lie circulate?

His first vote in 2001 was not to go to war with any nation, but to fund the necessary departments to keep this country safe after 9/11. The only war Bernie voted for was against terrorists, not a nation. And the reason he voted for three funding bills was because they contained something not related to those wars, but related to caring for our soldiers and veterans, or our own citizens after a disaster. And his fourth vote was the bill to end the war in Iraq. So he voted yea on four out of ten bills, but not because he was supporting the War in Iraq or anywhere else.

I know I can't convince any of you who keep using this meme...it would hurt too much to have to stop pushing a lie that tries to compare Bernie's record to Hillary's concerning war.

Here again is the link to Bernie's votes on wars and funding wars, and why he voted yay or nay.

https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/why-did-bernie-sanders-vote-to-fund-the-iraq-war/

Believe me, I understand that most of you will probably not even look at the link. It would be too inconvenient. It might cause some cognitive dissonance.

I'm adding a little info (not enough) to give you an idea of just why you might want to look at the link:

The point here is this: whenever you come across an article that makes some visceral, outrageous claim about something Bernie Sanders allegedly did or said, don’t jump to any hard and fast conclusions for or against him without first studying what he did and why. Then and only then can a sound political judgment be made.

Perhaps the most important metric for assessing whether these votes were right or wrong is to figure out how many living, breathing veterans would he have helped by voting against war funding bills that contained pro-veteran amendments? The answer is zero. And so while peace activists are lining up to condemn his campaign, veterans are lining up to join it.

[beam me up scottie]

95. Well done!

The Bush administration, backed by a Republican-controlled House and Senate, made a nasty habit of funding its disastrous occupation of Iraq on an emergency basis in order to minimize Congressional scrutiny, circumvent legal limits on the federal government’s debt ceiling, and understate the true cost of the war. The first time Sanders voted ‘yea’ to an Iraq war spending bill came in 2006 when the bill included funding for Hurricane Katrina relief efforts. The second time he voted ‘yea’ was when an amendment he inserted into the bill giving a $1 million grant to the Vermont Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA) to help returning veterans cope with their health care and mental health needs upon returning home. The third time he voted ‘yea’ was when the legislation incorporated a massive expansion of G.I. Bill benefits that Sanders co-sponsored and the Bush administration opposed guaranteeing full scholarships to veterans, including activated National Guard troops and reservists, with three years of service attending any public, in-state university and expanded benefits for students at private colleges and for graduate schools. The last time he voted ‘yea’ was when he gave his consent, along with the entire U.S. Senate, to fund the Iraq war’s end as President Barack Obama removed all U.S. troops from the country.

So is it correct to say that Sanders voted in favor of authorizing funds for the Iraq war? Yes it is.

But it is equally correct to say the exact opposite: Sanders voted against authorizing funds for the Iraq war.

The point here is this: whenever you come across an article that makes some visceral, outrageous claim about something Bernie Sanders allegedly did or said, don’t jump to any hard and fast conclusions for or against him without first studying what he did and why. Then and only then can a sound political judgment be made.

Perhaps the most important metric for assessing whether these votes were right or wrong is to figure out how many living, breathing veterans would he have helped by voting against war funding bills that contained pro-veteran amendments? The answer is zero. And so while peace activists are lining up to condemn his campaign, veterans are lining up to join it.

[zalinda]

97. It is one thing to fight a war

when you have no other choice, like WWII. After 9/11 the choice was to get Bin Laden in Afghanistan, the equivalent of going after Japan after Pearl Harbor.

Kosovo, was to prevent a slaughter of a group of people, again like WWII. If I remember correctly, we were asked to help.

His votes to fund the Iraq war was to support the troops, not to support the war. He made that perfectly clear when he cast his vote.

As for the F-35..... "To his credit, Sanders acknowledged that the program was “wasteful” in his defense of it. The contention over the F-35 in his home state of Vermont is that the program is now responsible for jobs in his hometown of Burlington, where he served as mayor before running for Congress. Some front doors of homes in the Burlington area are adorned with green ribbons, signifying support for the F-35. Sanders, like his colleagues in 45 states around the country, doesn’t want to risk the wrath of voters angry about job losses related to F-35 manufacturing, assembly, and training if the program were to be cut. And that’s where Lockheed Martin’s political savvy comes into play."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/24583-bernie-sanders-doubles-down-on-f-35-support-days-after-runway-explosion

Bernie has said, that war should be the last resort, and I believe him. I don't trust or believe Hillary, too much history with telling lies, or changing her mind, when it is politically expedient.

Z

[Iliyah]

19. The future is unseen.

No one is immune.

[Fumesucker]

5. And I'm beyond mystified that Hillary didn't listen to Dick Cheney warn of the dangers in Iraq

[Sheepshank]

8. So what excuse did Bernie have for his votes?

do you have a clever clip for that?

[passiveporcupine]

96. ask and it shall be given

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=804570

[trumad]

7. And..

The op of that thread edited later to include the false narrative.

I find that disgusting but the BS'ers find it just fine.

[ibegurpard]

9. Iraq was bullshit

We all knew it. She voted for it because she thought it would help her politically.

[Sheepshank]

11. What was Bernie's bullshit excuse?

The purity test here by Bernie Supporters is that there is never a good reason to vote for war....but you found a special exception for Bernie?

[ibegurpard]

24. Bernie voted against Iraq

Afghanistan was, and is to this day, generally seen as justified.
As for continuing to approve appropriations we don't send our children off to fight bullshit wars and leave them high and dry without funding.

[Sheepshank]

106. Your excuses for Bernie fails the no war purity test

His foresight in that instance completely sucked. this famous foresight is one more thing that Bernie supporters are always in awe of. All I see are justifications for a war that many here would be very happy to crucify Hillary over. The excuse was Bin Laden.....he wasn't there to be caught via a war. It didn't take a war in the end to get Bin Laden. Bernie made a huge huge mistake, but Bernie supporters will never admit it.....hence the pov that it's all hypocrisy.

[beam me up scottie]

107. Bin Laden attacked us, Saddam Hussein didn't.

Bernie voted to go after the former and not the latter, no amount of 20/20 hindsight and spin from you will change the fact that you support a war hawk.

You can't defend her speech and vote so you're desperately searching for an excuse to spread the blame.

Epic fail.

[beam me up scottie]

14. I'm utterly mystified that people are more offended by pictures than the war itself.

I and most Hillary supporters would NEVER have thought to use such a narrative or picture against another candidate.

You guys don't get to take the high road after flogging the victims of gun violence for months.

Faux outrage indeed.

[Sheepshank]

22. Dip, dodge, dive. I have my own standards of what picture should be displayed....

and how I will use picture on my own posts.

Back to the premis of the OP, do you not think there is anything hypocratic about posting a window from one war, when there are widows of other wars your Saint Bernard voted for?

[beam me up scottie]

30. Nope, calling HC supporters on their exploitation of gun deaths is none of the above.

You guys never fail to post an op blaming Bernie for gun deaths every time there is a mass shooting - even though he has supported gun control his entire career.

Now you're SHOCKED by pictures of an illegal war that your candidate lied to promote?

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.

This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction."

Spare me the fake indignation, you cannot defend her vote so you're trying to deflect.

You're just as guilty of exploiting death as anyone else.

[Sheepshank]

80. if anyone is defelcting a war vote its you. Bernie voted for a war that acheived nothing

The reality is that your justification that Bernie can go to war (and not garner any of the blame for dead soldiers), is false becaues Bin Laden was never caught in Afghanistan. AND when Bin Laden was caught, it wasn't because of a war in Pakistan. A strike force, independent of any war did the job just fine....the war in Afghanistan never needed. But it Bernie's vote anyway.

[beam me up scottie]

86. You are supporting a hawk who laughs at the thought of war and killing:

Bernie's vote to go after Bin Laden was reasonable since he did attack us on 9/11 - unless you're one of those truthers.

Why are you supporting a war hawk who lied to go to war with Iraq when Saddam didn't attack us?

[Sheepshank]

108. Over used clips about Hillary, doesn't stop Bernie from also being a warhawk

He voted for wars, Bernie votes for funding wars, for funding military equipment, will continue wars, is willing to start wars, will also use drones. He gets to wear the same label as anyone else who has had a hand in killing of US soldiers.

[beam me up scottie]

109. You support a war hawk and are complaining about Bernie's votes?

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

[Vattel]

102. Al Qaeda was hammered in Afghanistan.

The problem was that we couldn't resist trying to nation build.

[Skidmore]

29. Do you want to talk about gun violence and

not holding gun manufacturers liable?

[beam me up scottie]

32. Sure.

You can start by explaining why gun manufacturers should be held liable when their legally manufactured and sold, non-defective products are used in crimes.

[ibegurpard]

33. gun manufacturers aren't liable

Sellers could be.

[Sheepshank]

42. just like tobacco manufacturers shouldn't be liable

only the sellers?

The lies and mis information they have been spreading into the deadly effects of their prodicts is very similar.

[ibegurpard]

47. No lies about guns.

Everyone knows their purpose is to kill. Have you been taking false equivalence lessons from Republicans?

[beam me up scottie]

64. Bernie Derangement Syndrome.

All reason and logic goes out the window when they attempt to blame Bernie for gun deaths.

[Sheepshank]

69. the false narrative that only good people with guns.......

caused the false sense that safety is in buyng a gun, which causes more deaths.

you can't fake it...you knew this, you just conveniently forgot.

what does my anti gun stance have to do with Republican lessons...this is just wierd.

[mcar]

20. K&R

[ismnotwasm]

23. It's not mystifying, not really

A narrative is a story, and a story can be manipulated to fit someone's idea of snark, or manipulative political presentation or simply opinion. For some, it not only doesn't have to be true, it can't be true or it doesn't support the narrative.

It's a common tactic--I used to see it more often from people who did things like oh, voted for and apparently, revered Ronald Reagon, or are simply RWers.

Now that tactics fundamental dishonesty has spread all over and discourse is not only lessened and fairly useless but boring.

[William769]

26. Let's not also forget the people that died because of gun violence

and his votes against gun regulation.

[beam me up scottie]

35. How many people died because of his vote?

I thought the Brady bill passed?

And aren't you quite the hypocrite, flogging the dead for your candidate now, are we?

[Sheepshank]

49. true

[merrily]

28. Speaking of utter bs, no one said Hillary murdered that woman's loved one.

[sheshe2]

114. It was implied. nt

[merrily]

116. Bull puckies.

[sheshe2]

117. Thank you

For your insightful well articulated response.

[Sheepshank]

110. Thanks for the heads up

[Baitball Blogger]

113. No prob.

I'll delete my post above.

[JoePhilly]

36. Shows how they callously used her as a prop.

We expect that from the RW.

Now some of DU's high priests of liberalism are doing it.

[Ed Suspicious]

91. High priests of liberalism? As opposed to DU's high priests of conservatism on the other hand?

[NanceGreggs]

39. When I replied to that OP ...

... there was no photo - and the text was also altered after-the fact. I guess the RECS weren't coming fast enough without the usual shit-stirring being added.

I stand to be corrected, but didn't the author of that OP once state that he wished McCain had won instead of Obama - ya know, John "Bomb-bomb" McCain? And now he's posting despicable bullshit about HRC's warmongering tendencies?

That OP is beneath contempt - but I've come to expect that kind of thing here. And it seems the more vile the OP, the faster and higher it ends up on the Greatest Page.

I always knew that once Hill's campaign was in full gear and the polls started showing her unmistakable lead, the attacks would become more fast and furious. But even I didn't envision how low some people would sink in their desperation.

Well, I was wrong - and sadly so. It looks like no gutter is too deep for some posters to eschew wallowing in.

[Number23]

55. Yes, said he wished McCain had beaten Obama. Yes on every single solitary other thing you said in

your post. Except I don't know if the OP was altered because I long ago realized that individual and his crap stirring (much of it blatantly racist and sexist) was not worth reading so much as period, a comma or a quotation mark of.

And that goes double for the clapping seals that are determined to support his hateful, divisive and yet still, somehow INCREDIBLY purposeless and boring presence on this web site.

[NanceGreggs]

68. The OP was edited ...

... and the edit history is there.

As I replied to that OP, I am NOT mystified as to why he posted it, as his agenda has been blatantly obvious for years.

But this is DU as it is now - not as it was when DemocraticUnderground was actually a site for Democrats.

[ismnotwasm]

118. Yeah

In general I look at the author just roll my eyes and move on. It is sick, but it's also stupid and dull.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Sorry.

This better?

[Kalidurga]

51. Oh Manny they just don't get it

Next time you do an OP on it try to remember it was Vietnam Protesting Hillary that voted for that war. See evolution is a good thing.

[ibegurpard]

71. Vietnam protesting Hillary?

You mean the same one that tried to join the Marines?

[Kalidurga]

73. Yep

But, lets give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she just wanted to prosecute Marines.

[Segami]

77. Results

On Fri Nov 13, 2015, 06:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sorry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=804311

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Unbelievably bad form. The intent behind this post is contemptible.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Nov 13, 2015, 07:01 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OFFS!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sucks to look at death. If you can't take it don't look.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No it isn't.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The jury system is not the place to hash out your personal disagreements.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[MannyGoldstein]

98. Thanks for the heads up

I figured it would be a 2-5, I guess more people are getting more sicker of demands to not bother our beautiful minds.

[reformist2]

48. You shouldn't be mystified, you should think about why so many Dems don't want Hillary.

At first, your reaction may be one of denial... "They can't be serious! How can they be attacking our candidate, our all-but-anointed nominee!"

But if you think long and hard about how deeply the anti-war movement is rooted in the Democratic party, you might begin to realize that we are very serious about our opposition to her. Her votes for the war in Iraq are a huge deal to us, and we are not going to forget them.

It might even lead you to wonder, whether Hillary really is the best choice to lead the Democratic party after all...

[retrowire]

67. lmao its not even the same bro. XD n/t

[riversedge]

85. Thank you for the post.

It was so so wrong--below the belt wrong for that post with the widow to be posted and to blame it all on Hillary. What has DU become but a shadow of RW narratives so so so often

[freshwest]

87. I did not know all those details. What a sad situation for the woman who was grieving. n/t

[ejbr]

89. One war was necessary,

the other wasn't. That's the point. Deal with it.

[Skittles]

92. OMFG

what part of ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR IWR WAS EITHER COMPLICT OR HAD THEIR HEAD UP THEIR ASS do you not understand? AND I AM *NOT* A RABID BERNIE SUPPORTER.

[LovingA2andMI]

94. Threads Like This...

Make sure the ignore button goes into overdrive. Also, Bernie's positions on the use of force are far and away better than Hillary's.

[Sheepshank]

111. Justifying some deaths but not others

Is pure hypocrisy. The war was not necessary in either case. There were no WMD in Iraq, and bin laden wasn't in Afghanistan. Giant fuck up on both sides, but you want to justify one war as not as bad as the other? Omfg.

[sheshe2]

115. KnR for exposure.

[R B Garr]

119. Thanks for exposing the hypocrisy and the

Phony motives behind that thread.

First an edit to add an unrelated picture to bump up the drama and catch more fish.

Then you exposed the phony motives further by showing that the added picture meant to flame Hillary is really the result of one of Bernie's votes.

This is a total exposure of a very phony attention seeking thread. Great work, much appreciated.

[Cha]

120. I already know who these people are.. it says everything about them and absolutely

nothing about Hillary.

I have the most egregious on ignore.. who needs to see the same ol thing 24/7 for years? So they can reply to me until they're red in the face but I don't have to even know the next thing they're pushing in BS's name.

Thanks for calling out the latest propaganda from the sanders' campaign on DU. This is bouncing right back on Bernie.. they're just too dense to know it.

[eridani]

122. Not all Democrats are running for president. The last time we ran someone who voted for--

--the Iraq war, we lost.

[Bobbie Jo]

124. Thank you

For shining a light on the obvious hypocrisy.

The latest effort was particularly despicable.

[Sheepshank]

125. It really wasn't all that hard to find the info...the other op has become predictable

In parsing and making efforts to hide the big picture to manipulate readers. Too bad they fall for it so very frequently.

[Bobbie Jo]

128. So true. nt

[Cha]

129. KICK

[Bread and Circus]

130. Did Bernie ever vote to get us INTO a quagmire war as Clinton did?

[Sheepshank]

131. You don't see Afghanistan and funding Iraq quagmires?

Bernie's signature all over those.

[Bread and Circus]

132. I said get us INTO...

Big difference from supporting the troops

[Sheepshank]

133. Not a big difference, quibbling over words. Nt

[Bread and Circus]

134. Massive difference. Its like Clinton is a bad surgeon..

Who gets into a surgery and fucks it up... and then Bernie has to figure out a way to stop the bleeding and close the wound.


Massive massive difference.