How do you understand the differences between Bernie's and Hillary's stances

[JDPriestly]

on the following issues?

1) the rights of women in the workplace

2) Black Lives Matter

3) union rights

4) voting rights

5) the right to health care

6) the right to free college education in state schools

7) the right to family leave

8) the right to a living wage

9) the right to free pre-school for all families

10) the TPP

11) breaking up the banks

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform

13) increasing taxes on corporations

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US

15) protecting the environment.

[Cosmic Kitten]

1. Is this a trick question ;~/

Bernie to the left.
Hillary to the right.

People to the left.
Profits to the right.

Civil rights to the left.
Corporate rights to the right.

[JDPriestly]

17. No. I am interested in comparing how well Hillary v. Bernie supporters understand the

differences in the Bernie and Hillary stances on the issues.

I am a Bernie supporter and would like to understand the views of Hillary supporters better because it is hard for me to understand how they can prefer Hillary other than that she is a woman.

I'd appreciate a real answer. Not trying to be snarky although I did resoundingly state my pro-Bernie views further down.

I am trying to start a real discussion about the issues here.

I realize that it takes a lot of time to write a detailed answer, but I would appreciate one.

Thanks.

[upaloopa]

2. Well one of them lists the problems

the other one lists problems and offers solutions.

Take yesterday's speeches. Bernie told me what all the problems of the middle class are. So I said yea Bernie how do we solve them? Crickets.

Hillary told me what the problems with ISIS is. Then she spent over an hour telling me what she thinks the solution to the problem is.

[ibegurpard]

4. Yeah we heard

Defeat Isis.

Anonymous is doing better than she is on that front. Perhaps we should nominate them for president.

[Armstead]

5. His answers were broad...but there were answers if you care to actrually listen

I wish we would get more specific, but diagnosing and ackbnowledge a problem is one step towards solutions.

And he did list in general terms what he would push for.

[upaloopa]

8. I have been listening to Bernie for years

telling me what he would push for. He has been on Thom Hartman since I don't remember when.
His solution is this. Tax the wealthy and get 10's of millions of people to start a revolution.
Is it any wonder why he has so few endorsements?

[Armstead]

10. Look at his experience as mayor of Burlington -- Seriously

Different scale obviously, but the same dynamic.

When he fiorst ran, a lot of people were put off by his rhetoric, and thought he was just an empty ideologue.

But once in officer, he rolled up his sleeves and formed coalitions and actually got stuff done. That included the nuts and bolts day-to-day stuff that is the equivalent of "specific policy proposals." He walked in the neighborhoods of citizens and talked to them, and took care of specific problems. He won over a lot of people with his results, and kept getting re-elected by wide margins.

[JDPriestly]

13. Bernie is the only candidate who has both executive and legislative experience.

The only executive experience Hillary has is Secretary of State, and Obama was really in charge. She handled the department, and then we got the e-mail kerfluffle.

I am not concerned about what happened to the e-mails, but attention to detail and competent management skills would have immediately recognized that something was wrong if Hillary had to supply her own server to process her e-mails.

No business or law firm of any size would be managed so that someone preferably had e-mails for the company go through a private e-mail server. That creates legal problems because the company's e-mails can, at any time, be subpoenaed and should therefore not be mixed with the personal e-mails of an employee.

That's like management 101. And Hillary apparently did not know that.

So I do not think much of Hillary's executive ability.

[upaloopa]

18. Why don't I know what he plans to do as President?

I am being real here. All his speeches are a laundry list of problems.
On Thom Hartman in brunch with Bernie he would talk about a problem then say he is going to write a bill to deal with it. Those bills go nowhere in this repub congress.
At least he could read his latest bills that would be a bit more informative.

[madokie]

22. you're not paying attention is all I can say to you upaloopa

He spells it out what the problems are as he sees them then gives us an idea as what he proposed to do. Hillary on the other hand talks in platitudes. I've yet to hear any solutions coming from her mouth, except "cut it out" I remember her telling her buddies that but other than that she is an empty pant suit

Hillary will never be President. Bernie on the other hand is your next President

I don't know a soul who says they'll vote for her but I know a lot of republiCONs who say they'll more than likely vote for Bernie, some saying for sure they'll vote for him. Hillary not a soul. Everyone has the same thing to say as I do, I don't trust her. I don't trust her for a second. all she cares about is being President, period.
With Hillary it will be more of the same and that is NOT what this country needs nor is it what the people are looking for. You can bet on that too.

[randys1]

29. Someone linked me to his healthcare info, i hadnt seen it before, I liked what I saw

I dont worry about him coming up with structure, but I do worry that he will get any support doing it

[JDPriestly]

12. Hillary's solutions are more of the same. Tweak it here and there.

Hillary's solutions have not worked.

For-profit health insurance does not work. The deductibles and premiums are unaffordable for too many people.

Hillary wants employers to bear the brunt of paying for family leave. They won't. That will never work. That cost has to be spread across the taxpayers. Bernie's plan to raise payroll taxes just a tiny bit to pay for that will work.

Bernie is suggesting revamping the justice including taking marijuana off the federal list of dangerous drugs, changing the prison system to end private prisons among other things and to provide more jobs for the unemployed which includes a frightening percentage of young people of color especially African-Americas. Those are some of his remedies for the Black Lives Matters. Ending the profiteering from the imprisoning of Black people is essential to making sure that Black Lives Matter. Hillary is wishy-washy on these issues.

Bernie supports workers' rights and unions. Hillary gets endorsements. What is her stance on strengthening unions in the US? Can you please explain it to me because I really don't know what it is.

Bernie has a plan to insure that college tuition in a state school is free for every student. In fact, he introduced a bill that would require the federal government to support a large part of the budgets for state schools under certain conditions. Looks like a good plan to me. Hillary just wants to fund tuition at community colleges. That is a losing plan as far as I am concerned. Bernie's is better and far more concrete than Hillary's.

Voting rights. I think they agree. Please correct me if you think Hillary's plan is better than Bernie's.

Single payer insurance. I favor getting the profit out of the cost of healthcare. That means ending for-profit health insurance. Bernie's plan of Medicare for all would do that. Some years ago, I personally compared the administrative costs for Medicare with those of the private insurance industry. That was prior to Obamacare, so the numbers would hopefully be better now. Medicare was cheaper than private health insurance with regard to administrative costs. And the costs that doctors and hospitals pay to process the claims to various health insurance companies (a confusing mess I am sure) was not even in the discussion). I lived in Europe for years and enjoyed the single payer systems. Hillary is way off track when she rejects Bernie's single payer plan. Her numbers are off because she is not comparing the cost of our current health care system with what it would be with single payer. She is not even trying to do that as far as I can see.

On raising taxes, I am totally with Bernie. If the very rich, the hedge funders, the Wall Streeters, the corporations, paid the taxes they really owe and did not fund politicians like Hillary's campaigns in exchange for tax write-offs, special treatment and the right to offshore their profits and impose the cost of their crimes and damage to the environment and our economy on the middle class of Americans, then maybe Hillary would be right. But as it is, the burdens of our free enterprise system are resoundingly imposed upon the American middle class taxpayer while the very rich buy tax attorneys and accountants who, paid by the hour, work to harm America. I'm with Bernie on this.

I would like to have more detail in the answers I am getting. I want to know just how well DUers understand the issues and where the candidates stand. I'm getting generalizations that are pretty worthless, frankly.

[floriduck]

7. I think the medical term

for what ails you is called selective hearing, commonly referred to as closed-minded. There is a cure but the first step is to admit you need help. Interventions don't work on this disease.

[JDPriestly]

16. I would be interested in how you would answer my OP.

If you don't have time, please do it later. I am interested in comparing the understanding of the issues on the part of Hillary v. Bernie supporters.

I have my own views, but I would like to know how other people compare the two candidates' views on the issues. Thanks.

[floriduck]

24. Here is my take, in response to your request.

1) the rights of women in the workplace- There is no noticeable difference between the two.

2) Black Lives Matter- The only difference to me is the minimum wage amounts between the two. And that is only a related difference. Both have demonstrated their concern for the AA community.

3) union rights- Bernie is stronger on this issue. He even picketed with the fast food workers. Hillary seems like she doesn't relate well with unions, even though union bosses want to back her for their own benefit.

4) voting rights- no difference except Bernie wants all people automatically registered to vote at 18.

5) the right to health care- Big difference. Hill wants to keep and strengthen the ACA. Bernie wants all people covered via Medicare for all. The ACA does not protect all people.

6) the right to free college education in state schools- Hill wants only two years of college free. Bernie wants the full 4 years for public colleges.

7) the right to family leave- no difference that I am aware of.

8) the right to a living wage- Bernie wants minimum wage of $15; Hill wants $12.

9) the right to free pre-school for all families- Bernie supports this. I am not aware of Hill's policy.

10) the TPP- Bernie's been against this since day one. Hillary promoted this agreement from its inception until last month. Her reasons for opposing it are unclear other than its not good for labor. Bernie based his decision on the results of previous trade deals, the same ones Hill supported.

11) breaking up the banks- Bernie's strongly for this for the largest institutions. Hill wants them left as is with more regulations and stronger actions against shadow banks.

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform- Their positions are similar to bank policies. The big difference is that Hill gets major donations from financial and insurance firms. Bernie refuses their donations. And the question remains what Hill will do to major contributors, question of conflict of interest.

13) increasing taxes on corporations- Bernie supports this as a major source of funding to pay for programs to help the poor and lower middle class ( who need the most help).

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US- Bernie strongly supports this. Based on Hill's prior positions, she will not require much from corporate America or the wealthy segment of the population.

15) protecting the environment- Bernie believes climate change has adversely impacted terrorism actions. Hill has made no such statements and I am uncertain how far she will go to protect the environment.

[JDPriestly]

27. Thanks. Great answer. I think that Hillary wants employers to pay for family leave while

Bernie wants to spread the cost across working people and employers by raising the payroll tax just a bit. Of course Bernie's raising the minimum wage to $15 would reduce the impact of the additional small tax. And I think Bernie wants to tie the minimum wage to inflation too.

Thanks. Great answer.

So far Bernie supporters are giving more thorough and detailed answers. We shall see which side wins when it comes to knowing the issues.

Do you think I missed any important issues?

[floriduck]

33. I think you covered

the topics well. They give a wide spectrum of policy positions for the candidates. I, too, want to see other responses, especially from the other side.

[karynnj]

9. yeah with a no fly zone in Syria ignoring that

There is NOT international UN support and that Russia and Syria are both flying planes. Some times, having the details reassures, this was not one of them. Thank God Obama is President now and Kerry is his SoS.

[JDPriestly]

44. I didn't even go to foreign policy, but you make a great point. Thanks.

Obama is smart when it comes to foreign policy -- except as someone pointed out, the Libya bombing was half-done. If you break it, you own it. Colin Powell said that, I think. Proved to be very true, and is true with regard to Libya and Syria although both countries have been broken for a long time.

[BootinUp]

49. Perhaps trying to put together the no-fly zone is better than not trying.

She clearly stated that she expected Russia would be a part of any such endeavor, therefore, if they are not or if it were deemed unpractical because they were not, it would not happen.

As to the merits of a no-fly zone, Hillary believes it gives provides more negotiating leverage. And it seems common sense that hostilities in the safe area so covered would be lessened.

[karynnj]

50. the point is it against Russia ' s ally, Assad.

In fact, the reason is to help the rebels defeat Assad. ISIS has no planes.

NEITHER Obama or Kerry is asking for it.

[BootinUp]

51. I believe Obama expressed the opinion it would be too complicated or

difficult, I don't have the exact quote handy. But let me ask you this, do you think Russia's number 1 motivation is to keep Assad in power indefinitely? If that is the case the discussions about a no-fly zone probably wouldn't go very far.

With concern to ISIS capabilities, I think that is not a major reason for advocating a no-fly zone. Rather the no-fly zone would provide leverage to bring the civil war to a halt, which would definitely be better for the region for any number of reasons, one being that it would put more attention on ISIS by all involved.

[karynnj]

53. He thought it a bad idea.

It completely ignores the current diplomatic effort. It is a big deal that Iran and Saudi Arabia are part of the effort.

[BootinUp]

54. John Kerry raises Syria no-fly zone despite Obama's skepticism

Turkey, France and the Syrian opposition have long pushed for a safe zone to protect civilians from Syrian airstrikes, but the Obama administration has repeatedly rejected the idea as too difficult to implement.

Senior administration officials said serious logistical concerns remain, including who would enforce it and the need to divert resources from the campaign against ISIS. The U.S. military has not supported a no-fly zone, in part because of the myriad actors in the skies over Syria and the difficulties of vetting the people who would be allowed inside.

Although Kerry revisited the idea of a no-fly zone primarily to put pressure on ISIS and protect civilians against Syrian regime attacks, officials said the idea has a new context with Russia's military intervention in the war-torn country.

Senior administration officials said Russian airstrikes have repeatedly targeted CIA-backed rebels, despite Moscow's assertion that it is only attacking ISIS targets.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/john-kerry-no-fly-zone-syria-obama/

[karynnj]

56. that was a report that was never verified

Kerry never publicly called for that.

[BootinUp]

57. The story was based on at least three unnamed officials, but no not publicly.

[karynnj]

58. It is contrary to positions he has taken publicly

Note that all sources were unnamed and it was before the Russians were there. Even as a Senator, Kerry took the position that it carried too many risks. Even in the report, it is a safe zone near the border. Not what HRC is for.

I think this similar to McCain and Graham a year ago claiming Kerry agreed with them and Josh Rogin writing it even as Kerry, Senator Murphy and Jen Psaki who were also there disputed it. Rogin later linked to the story to argue Kerry agreed with them.

In this story, there are not even people willing to be named. Likely it meant Kerry was willing to listen to people taking that position - hearing them out. That his name is used is because he has credibility.

However, this seems far from positions he is taking. Not to mention, he pushed for getting everyone to work towards a ceasefire and transition in the next few months. A position far from a no fly zone which will not be needed if there is a ceasefire.

[Vincardog]

3. Here here call on me! BS is right (left) HRC is wrong (right) right?

[JDPriestly]

14. Can you explain in more detail please?

I am trying to find out how well Hillary and Bernie supporters really understand the issues.

So far I'm getting answers that suggest no one really is thinking about the details of the issues.

[Vincardog]

19. I can articulate BS stand but I have no comprehension of HRC's suporters rationalizations on the

Issues

[JDPriestly]

46. Don't feel bad. Judging from the responses to this post, neither do most of them.

They are just hoping to be a "winner" at last.

Hillary has lost a lot. Those who like her just want to win for once. That is my impression.

Bernie is a solid candidate, and his supporters understand and can articulate what he is about.

That is the conclusion I draw from this thread.

[Vincardog]

47. AGREED

[TIME TO PANIC]

6. Hillary fails on most of those compared to Bernie.

I would add marijuana prohibition and ending private prisons.

which she also fails.

[Armstead]

11. Well, here's my own scrorecard

1) the rights of women in the workplace -- about the same

2) Black Lives Matter -- about the same, but Bernie is more serious about it

3) union rights -- Bernie is better ion the issues that matter

4) voting rights -- about the same

5) the right to health care -- Hillary is a shill for the status quo.

6) the right to free college education in state schools -- Bernie is better

7) the right to family leave -- about the same as far as I can tell

8) the right to a living wage -- Hillary's idea of a living wage is not realistic. Bernie recognizes reality.

9) the right to free pre-school for all families -- no idea

10) the TPP -- Bernie is much, much better. Clintons a phony.

11) breaking up the banks -- Bernie by a mile. But I see it as restoring competition

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform -- Clinton has a decent campaign laundry list. But Bernie acknowledges systemic problem.

13) increasing taxes on corporations -- Bernie better. Clinton talks a sorta good game, but not holding my breath.

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US -- same as 13

15) protecting the environment -- Same in some ways. Different in others. Bernie's more serious about it.

[JDPriestly]

15. Thanks. That is the most detailed of the answers so far.

I am interested in knowing how well the Hillary and Sanders supporters really understand the candidates' views on the issues and specific plans.

I have a suspicion that Hillary supporters really don't know much about Sanders' views.

And I, as a Sanders supporter, would like to know more about Hillary's views and how they compare in concrete terms to Sanders stances.

Seems fair enough to me.

But I am getting snarky answers.

When it comes to the issues, I do not understand how Democrats can support Hillary's views on a number of things. I would like to understand that, and I am hoping that this thread will give Hillary supporters the opportunity to defend her stances on the issues so that I can understand how they see things.

Not much success so far. You are a Bernie supporter and thus far the only one who has really answered my OP.

Thanks for your answer.

[DianeK]

26. It seems to me that Hillary appears ..

to already be running in the general election as if she already had the nomination so she is not even pretending anymore that she is progressive and is bringing out her more right of center credentials...that is how it looks to me

[BainsBane]

20. Have you read Clinton's policy positions?

That is where to go if anyone actually wants to understand differences. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
https://berniesanders.com/issues/
Absent a discussion of actual proposed policy, whatever people say reveals far more about them than the two candidates.

[JDPriestly]

23. I explain Bernie's positions all the time.

I would like your understanding of Hillary's versus Bernie's positions.

I asked this question because someone challenged my statement that many of Hillary's supporters are poorly informed about the issues.

I want to know, not just what Hillary says, but what her supporters think or believe that she says on the issues.

I want to compare the extent of the understanding of the two candidates' positions by their supporters. There is so much snark and personal animosity on DU that sometimes I don't know whether people are playing a very aggressive team sport that has nothing to do with policy differences or really are making decisions based on their policy preferences.

I can go to websites any time I want. What I want to see is the supporters of the two candidates explain their understandings of what the candidates stand for -- and not just what their preferred candidates stands for.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[BainsBane]

36. I'm not interested in your assessing my level of information

Clearly I have read the policies and voting records of both candidates, and I have posted about them many times. When I post those links, the Clinton detractors tell me they aren't interested in reading her positions. So what is it you want now? You want me to reiterate her policy positions to see if they conform with your internet memes? They won't because I have read her actual policies, not just the GOP-planted tripe that is the basis for an unprecedented level of hostility among so-called "progressives" to a Democratic candidate.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't give a shit if people who refuse to even look at her policy positions, or even their own candidate's voting record, think I'm uninformed. I suggest you worry about your own level of knowledge. Contrary to the prevailing view on this site, slogans are not policies. Repeating corporatist and Third Way over and over again does not amount to policy discussions. You want to discuss policy positions, pick one. Make your post about the issue rather than your sanctimonious attitude toward the majority of Americans who don't support your particular candidate.

It would take all night to respond to your quiz. Such a simplistic approach favors Sanders over Clinton because her policies are more detailed and nuanced, designed to be implemented rather than serve as campaign rallying cries.

You want bumper sticker slogans, I'll give you that. Clinton stands for moving the country forward, creating opportunity for all Americans---especially women, people of color, and LGBT Americans--to reach their potential. Sanders stands for "taking America back," returning the country to the mid-20th century, a message that appeals the white bourgeoisie concerned with reestablishing what they see as their rightful place atop the capitalist world order. He claims to oppose "corporate power" but in reality favors industries like guns and the MIC while demanding accountability for Wall Street. Sanders is good at articulating the economic inequality plaguing the nation, but he is far less adept at proposing solutions. He relies on simplistic tropes that have currency among his supporters but do nothing to address the problems they claim to (repetition of Glass-Steagall and Citizens United example). Clinton and Sanders' policies on campaign finance are very similar, but she doesn't make empty promises she can't keep. She doesn't play on the public's ignorance about campaign finance by making empty references to not having Super Pacs, but she instead speaks to the systemic problems of money in politics. Sanders proposes public financing of elections, something I think is enormously important, but in pretending it can be accomplished through legislation draws his commitment to that into question. Clinton is far more concerned about policy than Sanders, and as a result she has substantive policy positions on her website. Sanders sticks to a core message, simple and compelling to some, but offers far less in terms of substantive policy reform--for example, proposing Glass-Steagall as a fix all for Wall Street, when in fact it would do absolutely nothing to address the problems that brought about the crash of 2008, but none of his supporters care. They don't care if he supports the drone program, guns, $800 billion to Lockheed Martin, the Wall or the Minutemen. The one thing they seem to care about is that he stands for people like them, and people like them support Sanders (those who don't support the GOP), whereas the demographics that always support the Democratic party support Clinton.

Black lives: African Americans can and will determine who is better on that issue. If the polls hold up as they are now, their answer will be clear. Sanders talks a lot about prison reform and jobs, but many African Americans believe he downplays the importance of race as a factor in police brutality and racism generally, even toward black people who have good jobs. Clinton conceives of the presidency as about implementing policy more than moral leadership, which may represent a shortcoming for some black voters. Again, that is for them to decide.

Guns. Clinton has been forceful in calling for further gun control, taking a stand that political advisers argue is risky. Sanders' has had odious votes on guns (against the Brady Bill) and has been so influential that this site is now filled with "progressives" repeating NRA arguments on gun laws, like the one granting immunity for gun CORPORATIONS. That is utterly inconsistent with his supposed "anti-corporate" position, but his supporters do not care.

You see, in pretending the key difference between the two is what they stand for you miss a very important factor: who has the capacity to implement what they propose. Clinton clearly is far stronger in that regard. She's taken pains to cultivate relationships with Democratic members of the House and Senate so that if elected, she would have a much better working relationship with them than Obama ever did. That shows she has key political skills established through cultivating long-term political relationships that generate allegiances she can draw on to get legislation enacted. After more than 30 years in congress, Sanders has one piece of major legislation to point to. The accomplishment was so rare for him, that he pointed to the ordinary setbacks in getting support for a bill as a major "crisis," something active legislators encounter every single day. The irony is you seem to think that selecting a candidate is about choosing a wish list of policies, as though all you have to do is pick the one who tells you what you want to hear. And then you have the nerve to write an OP in which your goal is to pass judgment over the level of information of others.

I've already wasted far too much time on this nonsense. As for whether you consider me informed or not, it is utterly irrelevant. You have one vote, same as mine and same as every other voter in this country. If you think of yourself as superior to me or even the least informed voter, you're wrong. In fact, that attitude multiplied by the thousands is precisely why Sanders' candidacy has stalled. He counts on his supporters to get the word out, and they've done just that. The problem is voters don't like what they are hearing, and with good reason. The irony is that you all decry oligarchy while arguing that a select few who think like you are more fit than others to make political choices. If one wants to advance a more equitable society, they need to behave as though they actually uphold such values.

[JDPriestly]

38. Actually, thanks. That is the most coherent and complete explanation by any Hillary supporter

as to why he or she supports Hillary.

We get fragments of that, but nothing that makes any sense.

I disagree with your understanding of Bernie's positions, probably because I like him and have made a point to investigate and think through how he will achieve what he wants to do.

He has lots of experience in an executive position as mayor of Burlington, Vt. It's a smaller city, but he achieved a lot there and clearly has a lot of Republican support among voters and is thus able to cooperate not just with Democrats but across party lines.

I could of course go on, but the point of my post was to find out whether the normally very brief, cryptic and vague pro-Hillary posts are all there is or whether Hillary supporters have arguments to support their opinions other than gloating over poll results.

We disagree but I really appreciate your taking the time to explain your views without just dismissing my question as snark.

Thanks.

[Chitown Kev]

21. It's an honest question

On the policies, themselves, Bernie would have the edge on his policy ideals.

I think that Hillary is more realistic about what can be accomplished given the composition of the Congress and other legislatures.

Bernie is more reliant upon action outside normal legislative process (yes, the original was very poorly stated...CK) in order to apply political pressure to legislators...he says it over and over again...

and, in that light, I think that I might prefer it that Bernie stay in the Senate and do this agitation of a (hopefully) President Clinton a la Huey Long

[JDPriestly]

25. Interesting. One of the rreasons I prefer Bernie and am supporting him is that I want him

appointing the cabinet and Supreme Court justices.

Hillary is, in my view, and in particular with regard to advisers on the economy, too conservative and too purchased by Wall Street and big corporations and the wealthy to choose cabinet members and advisers who will really work toward economic and social justice in our country.

Your view is interesting. I'm sorry to say that "outside agitation" was the term that Southern governors and segregationists used when I was young to describe anyone who favored integration or racial justice.

That is a rather poisoned term that says a great deal to people of my generation about the background of the person using the term.

Huey Long was from Louisiana. I know that he backed the social reforms of FDR, but he did not achieve much. Look at Louisiana today. A mess. Backward in every respect.

Huey Long's tradition was quickly abandoned when Louisianans were asked to give truly equal rights, respect and opportunities to African-Americans.

To compare Bernie Sanders to Huey Long is an insult. Bernie's dedication to social justice equals his dedication to economic justice. In my view, you can't have one without the other.

The term "outside agitation" has a history. Sorry. I don't want to be offensive, but that term is kind of revealing to me.

[Chitown Kev]

32. I'm a black gay man...

so quite naturally I was thinking not at all in terms of people like Theodore Bilbo and more in terms of people and groups like GetEqual and SNCC...in other words, Sanders requires pressure to come from people outside of institutions.

[Chitown Kev]

34. On Long v. Sanders

Huey Long was assassinated three years in FDR's administration.

Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for a quarter of a century...and Sanders track record (relative to the times, of course) is not nearly as extensive as Long's...and in fact, the Sanders House Parties are very comparable to Long's Share the Wealth Clubs and, like Long, Sanders also goes on the radio once a week...

Personally, I think Long was far more effective because of the fact that due to "outside agitation" from THE REAL LEFT (real socialists and communists!), FDR did eventually move to the left...there has been no comparable movement of, say, Obama further to the Left.

Truth be told, the Kingfish was as corrupt as they come, though...I will give you that.

EDIT: let me add a link here to a DK diary that I think is the finest diary ever published at DK

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/08/11/891631/-UPDATED-Liberal-Criticism-of-Franklin-Roosevelt-and-The-New-Deal

[femmedem]

37. Thanks for the link. Heading off to read it now. n/t

[JDPriestly]

39. Very interesting.

Long was corrupt while Bernie's reputation for honesty is unassailable after so many years in office and winning elections in Vermont by such large margins.

FDR was also able to achieve what he did because our economy was in such a shambles. My mother was a teenager during the FDR era. She lived in Oklahoma during the early years of the Great Depression, and she believed that FDR was next to Jesus in terns of virtues. He saved her generation and her world.

But although they were way ahead of their time in terms of race issues, their race policies by our standards were horrible.

[riversedge]

28. Hillary has ....

hI



WHOOT--members will be out and about in Iowa--getting folks to the caucus for Hillary



AFSCME opens office supporting Hillary Clinton in Cedar Falls

http://wcfcourier.com/elections/caucuses/afscme-opens-office-supporting-hillary-clinton-in-cedar-falls/article_19ad1c83-eba8-5e7d-93dc-5e49e5d144ed.html

Hillary Clinton
19 hours ago • By John Molseed
(

CEDAR FALLS | Members of the nation's largest public-sector employees union officially opened an Iowa field office in support of Hillary Clinton on Thursday.

Last month, AFSCME, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, officially endorsed Clinton's bid for the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.

"She's more qualified than any of the Republicans running," said Danny Homan, president of AFSCME Iowa Council 61. "Hillary has a long history of supporting unions."

Volunteers from AFSCME locals and councils around the U.S. volunteering to canvas, make phone calls or go door-to-door and other campaign activities will use the Cedar Falls office, at 704 1/2 Main St., as a hub. The office also is home to AFCME local 2659, which represents University of Northern Iowa staff...............


AFSCME @AFSCME

.@HillaryClinton Supporters Overflow Watch Party at #DemDebate http://afsc.me/1S2w6Vk #ImWithHer #WeVoteWeWin #1u





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[JDPriestly]

43. Of course, you don't have to answer my post, but I'm trying to learn how Hillary supporters versus

Bernie supporters understand their candidate's views on the issues. I realize that an answer that was your own would take time. But so far Bernie supporters far outnumber Hillary supporters in terms of presenting their candidates issue stances.

Don't want to insult, but if you have time, I'd love to know your takes on the candidates' stances on the issues.

I understand if you don't have the time.

thanks.

[randys1]

30. here ya go

1) the rights of women in the workplace - both are good I think

2) Black Lives Matter - Neither will do justice to the needs of the AfAm community in the end, but both will do far better than the alternative

3) union rights - Bernie is Mr. Union

4) voting rights - both probably

5) the right to health care - Bernie has a better plan, but getting support will be very very very tough if not impossible

6) the right to free college education in state schools - Bernie obviously

7) the right to family leave - not sure, havent researched, both maybe

8) the right to a living wage - Bernie would go further but again, who will support him?

9) the right to free pre-school for all families - not sure who is saying what on that one

10) the TPP - duh, Bernie

11) breaking up the banks - Bernie wants to, Hillary doesnt

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform - Bernie better by far

13) increasing taxes on corporations - Hope Bernie can accomplish this

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US - Bernie

15) protecting the environment. - Both are good I think

[JDPriestly]

40. Thanks.

[mrdmk]

31. Thank-you for asking, here are my answers

Last edited Fri Nov 20, 2015, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)

1) the rights of women in the workplace

Clinton: This has been a long time issue for her playbook. She has her talking points in line and uses them well. She may do very well with this issue.

Sanders: The message he has been portraying is all people are equal and need to be treated as such. His economic rhetoric states this over and over.


2) Black Lives Matter

First and foremost, neither candidate is a racist (period)

Second, this is a long time problem and will not be solved with a quick solution. Why, there are too many minds to change. It has been ingrained into this society there are problems that cannot be solved without leaving oneself vulnerable.

Clinton: Her authoritarian approach towards crime control may hinder any aspirations of controlling unjust police activities. In addition, being an authoritarian, she may not listen to others and their solutions.

Sanders: At the start of his campaign, his economic message was a solution to many of the problems of this society. He did listen and adjusted his message.

3) union rights

Have to generalize here…

Clinton: Could go either way depending on the union and the time.

Sanders: Would be union first, corporation/state entity second.

4) voting rights

Both candidates give attention to this matter, once again depending on the dispute and the time.

5) the right to health care

Clinton: Keep ACA more or less the same.

Sanders: Single Payer.

6) the right to free college education in state schools

Clinton: More or less the same.

Sanders: Part of his economic program to expand college to all.

7) the right to family leave

Both candidates will expand family leave, with different methods of covering the cost.

8) the right to a living wage

Clinton: IMHO, not much.

Sanders: Part of his economic program for a living wage.

9) the right to free pre-school for all families

Do not know.

10) the TPP

Clinton: Will carry on with the trade policies that were started in the 1980’s.

Sanders: Part of his economic program to reverse the trade policies that were started in the 1980’s. In all fairness, it will be difficult to do.

11) breaking up the banks

Clinton: When she started her campaign a year or so ago, Clinton spoke to money interest before speaking directly to the general public. IMHO, not much.

Sanders: Part of his economic program to level the economic playing field.

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform

Clinton: When she started her campaign a year or so ago, Clinton spoke to money interest before speaking directly to the general public. IMHO, not much
.
Sanders: Part of his economic program to level the economic playing field.

13) increasing taxes on corporations

Clinton: When she started her campaign a year or so ago, Clinton spoke to money interest before speaking directly to the general public. IMHO, not much.

Sanders: Part of his economic program to level the economic playing field.

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US

Clinton: When she started her campaign a year or so ago, Clinton spoke to money interest before speaking directly to the general public. IMHO, not much.

Sanders: Part of his economic program to level the economic playing field.

15) protecting the environment.

This will be interesting. The world in general will have to eventually curtail the use of fossil fuels in the near future. The current use is not sustainable.

Clinton: Similar to the Obama administration, there are minor changes.

Sanders: The biggest threat to humankind according to Sanders is global climate change. I believe this to be true and glad he said it. You think there is a problem now with human migration, wait till this problem hits full force. Sanders is spot on.

[JDPriestly]

41. Thanks. Really a great answer.

[femmedem]

35. Bernie supporter here.

1) the rights of women in the workplace : Both good on equal pay for equal work, but Bernie supports a higher minimum wage, which will disproportionately improve women's pay.

2) Black Lives Matter: Bernie focuses on economic and criminal justice reforms, perhaps not fully understanding the repercussions of racist and segregationist policies. I believe both would abhor police brutality and recognize the disparate effect it has on black lives. At least I hope so. I have a tough time trusting Clinton because of the slashing of the social safety net during Bill Clinton's term, which I vaguely remember her defending.

3) union rights: Clinton's good, Bernie's a true believer.

4) voting rights: I believe both have come out in favor of universal voter registration at 18. I heard it from Hillary first.

5) the right to health care: Bernie's for single-payer, medicare for all. Hillary for continuing ACA.

6) the right to free college education in state schools: Bernie is for free public college. Hillary...I admit I don't know her stance.

7) the right to family leave: Bernie is for paid leave, tax-payer supported I think Hillary wants the employer to pay.

8) the right to a living wage: Bernie is for $15/hr federal minimum; Hillary for $12.

9) the right to free pre-school for all families: They both support it

10) the TPP: Bernie has always opposed it; Hillary called it the gold standard but recently came out against it

11) breaking up the banks: Bernie opposes too big to fail. Hillary ???

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform: Bernie wants to reinstate Glass-Steagall, Hillary focuses on shadow banks.

13) increasing taxes on corporations: Bernie would go much further than Hillary.

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US: Bernie would go further; I've heard him talk about it more. Hillary has also called for this, but has ties to offshore tax havens herself.

15) protecting the environment: both recognize that global warming is real. Bernie talks about it with more urgency. HIllary supported fracking. Bernie wants to prevent us from extracting fossil fuels on federal land and always opposed Keystone. Hillary has not said she supports the Leave It In The Ground bill. I also think I heard her say that although income inequality is a problem, slow economic growth is a bigger problem. This troubles me because fast economic growth is incompatible with the 7% annual reduction in CO2 emissions we need, beginning now, if we are going to avoid more than a 2 degree Celsius warming.

[JDPriestly]

42. Another great answer from a Bernie supporter (I gather).

I only got one good answer from a Hillary supporter so far.

That was from Bainsbane. I don't agree with it, and it doesn't list all the positions of the candidates, but it was the best discussion of issues that I have seen from a Hillary supporter, and I really appreciate it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

45. Great questions

I see it as Bernie tries to make policies that will help us progress toward a better society free of racism, war and poverty.

Hillary tries to make policies that will maintain the status quo, but just give a fake appearance of trying to help people to get elected.

[BootinUp]

48. I don't see them as being that far apart on policy, I will explain.

The differences between them, remind me of 2008 when Obama, Clinton, and Edwards all had very similar positions. The positions differ somewhat in how to accomplish goals, but they generally agree on the broad strokes of what needs to be done. Some of Clintons positions are not quite as aggressive as Sanders. Some are more aggressive. Her rhetoric is less aggressive, more positive than Sanders. Democratic voters have historical been attracted to a positive message.

Just to take 2 issues that are important to both Clinton supporters and Sanders supporters:

Minimum Wage: While Clintons baseline policy is $12/Hr, it is also important to look at what she wants to do regionally to adjust it higher based on cost of living differences. Her baseline number is based on a well regarded study / expert recommendation. They are both serious on the issue of increasing the minimum wage.

Financial Regulation: Clinton's plan has been said to be tougher than Sanders in terms of reigning in excess risk in the financial markets by many. On Glass/Steagall there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether it would correct the root cause of the 2008 collapse. But she has not ruled out "breaking up banks". In other words, they both seem to take this issue of financial regulation seriously.

[tularetom]

52. These are my impressions

1) the rights of women in the workplace - probably a push

2) Black Lives Matter - Bernie gets it, Clinton will give lip service

3) union rights - Bernie by a mile

4) voting rights - don't see a lot of difference here

5) the right to health care - both will talk a good game but only Sanders will act

6) the right to free college education in state schools - Sanders has already stake his position

7) the right to family leave - Clinton will support it as long as employers don't complain

8) the right to a living wage - equivocation and triangulation by Clinton, solid support by Sanders

9) the right to free pre-school for all families - don't know but I'd assume Bernie would support

10) the TPP - are you kidding, Clinton ("Wall St. bankers were my constituents after 9/11&quot has no credibility on this issue

11) breaking up the banks - see response to #10

12) Wall Street and financial sector reform - see response to #10

13) increasing taxes on corporations - see response to #10

14) taxing the money the very wealthy and corporations hide in foreign tax havens that should be taxable in the US -see response to #10

15) protecting the environment.- when profits are at stake, Clinton will be AWOL.

[Maedhros]

55. Bernie's positions are heartfelt. Hillary's are manufactured by think tanks.[n/t]